PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 189 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5641 of 6621 Old 08-29-2014, 04:39 PM
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People buy separates for a reason. Separate amps add to the sound your speakers produce. Some will notice it, others not.

There is a reason for pre outs and amps.

If you are fortunate enough not to hear a difference, you'll save a ton of cash and frustration in matching components.
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post #5642 of 6621 Old 08-29-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by aydu View Post
People buy separates for a reason. Separate amps add to the sound your speakers produce. Some will notice it, others not.

There is a reason for pre outs and amps.

If you are fortunate enough not to hear a difference, you'll save a ton of cash and frustration in matching components.
I always run at least a 2 channel amp. I love adcoms. Had a aragon until it broke. I have a crown xls now. I swear by separate amps. There is the anti-watt crowd, but I'm not one of them. You know the story, double the power only nets +3db, 50w is all you ever need. To me, an amp "wakes" the speakers up. Even if there isn't much difference in sound, it's peace of mind knowing the speakers are driven properly and you can turn them up to your hearts desire. I like to have distortion lights as well. See....adcom, crown.

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post #5643 of 6621 Old 08-29-2014, 09:34 PM
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thank you for that information on the separate external amps you are right I've been trying to learn about them and I see that not only does it add more volume and quality it also protects the speakers from clipping andsudden burst of sound that could blow them outI would imagine that it also take stress off the receiver tobut like I said I'm on this forum to learn and to see the best possible way to do my home theater at a reasonable price so anything that anyone can tell me would be greatly appreciated thank you I hope we can all continue this still
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post #5644 of 6621 Old 08-29-2014, 09:46 PM
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I always run at least a 2 channel amp. I love adcoms. Had a aragon until it broke. I have a crown xls now. I swear by separate amps. There is the anti-watt crowd, but I'm not one of them. You know the story, double the power only nets +3db, 50w is all you ever need. To me, an amp "wakes" the speakers up. Even if there isn't much difference in sound, it's peace of mind knowing the speakers are driven properly and you can turn them up to your hearts desire. I like to have distortion lights as well. See....adcom, crown.

Interesting if 50w is all you need and a typical receiver provides 100-125w per channel then why would one need an amp then. Does the amp make a difference in the quality of the sound?



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post #5645 of 6621 Old 08-30-2014, 07:51 AM
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Interesting if 50w is all you need and a typical receiver provides 100-125w per channel then why would one need an amp then. Does the amp make a difference in the quality of the sound?



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Kind of being sarcastic about the 50w. If you follow the rules, going with a 200w external amp would gain you roughly +6db. For some that's worth the money for some not. I personally believe there are slight differences in amps based on the ones I've owned. Many argue there are none. I wouldn't buy amp on sq improvement. Buy it based on volume level and ability to drive. The comment about speakers "waking up" has to with the amp's ability to drive them than it does improving sound quality.
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post #5646 of 6621 Old 08-30-2014, 09:27 AM
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I have a pair of Imagine S' in a 7 channel setup. The Imagine S is a "tri-mode surround" speaker. It can be wired Dipole, Bipole or as 2 separate channels in a direct radiator configuration, which is what I did. I have them mounted close to the ceiling and about 3' from the back wall. I think the Minis can reach a little lower on the FResp, but I wouldn't say they sound any different. I would honestly rate them almost exactly the same in SQ. The only reason I would pick one over the other would be because of odd room dimensions. The Minis would give you more configuration choices and better control. My back wall and side walls are square and symmetrically identical, so the Imagine S' work fine. The only advantage is 2 extra channels at almost twice the price. It would be "a wash" between the 2 speaker choices in my living room. Both great speakers! Enjoy your system
Thanks for your insight.
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post #5647 of 6621 Old 09-01-2014, 06:28 AM
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I value sound quality. I never listen to music at concert level volmes.

Amps provide the best sound possible from my speakers. No debate with me. My wife thinks everything sounds "nice" regardless of equipment and wants any selected volume turnrd down a notch.

Lesson learned is that the listener is the biggest variable in the signal chain.
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post #5648 of 6621 Old 09-01-2014, 03:59 PM
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Hi

I am a newbie and trying to get some help with my setup. I just setup my T6 and C5 with my Denon X4000. I mostly use the setup for movie wand shortly will install my S5 (already bought). I plan to keep it to 5.1 or max 7.1. Room size is 1500 cu ft. My questions are the following

1. I notice that I have to increase the volume to around 75 for the loudness that I like. Is that normal? I have run Audyssey and stored the settings

2. Somehow I am not getting too excited with the tower's performance. Something make me feel that I am not extracting too much out of them ( I may be wrong). Do I need an external amp? If yes then do I need a one that has more than 150w per channel considering AVR already puts 125w.



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are you still there wondering about having problems with the volume having to SET too loud to wake up your speakers

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post #5649 of 6621 Old 09-01-2014, 11:58 PM
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Hi , just bought a pair of PSB Image B5 Cherry to replace my Athena S2 and im kinda disapointed ! I own a pair of PSB image T4 since 5years now and i love them ! But the B5 just seems to have not bass and no highs ... Compared to the Athena S2 ... Powered by a HK3270 for a 2.0 setup . Do they need some kind of break in period or something ? Maybe they are underpowered ?

Thx
The B5 should definately have enough bass. I just chose an entire Image set which includes a pair of B4s and even the B4s have quite a bit of bass. They will take some time to break in to sound their best, around 50 - 100 hours. Maybe a setting on your receiver is causing decreased bass? Like a graphic equalizer. I wanted a new system of Legacy studio speakers but unfortunately it would have forced me to use too large of drivers for the rears considering my space restrictions.

Will post pics of the new speakers soon.
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post #5650 of 6621 Old 09-02-2014, 12:23 PM
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this questions a little bit out of my reach I'm looking for a new home theater receiver but I keep hearing about external amplifiers and monoblocks one brand is Emotiva instead of spending a fortune on a receiver can I buy a cheaper one and by a external amplifier to run my home theater speakers does hey wire run from the receiver to the external amplifier not sure how that works if anyone can help with this I appreciate it I just have some questions about all that Thanks
If you go that route also consider Outlaw's great 7125 amplifier. Outlaw also has a combo deal with that and their processor.
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post #5651 of 6621 Old 09-02-2014, 04:10 PM
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are you still there wondering about having problems with the volume having to SET too loud to wake up your speakers

Volumes at 75-80 on my X4000 sounds good and felt home theater like. Below that is just fine. I guess I am beginning to appreciate the sound to some level. I will be buying the woofer in the next week or so hence reducing the load of the towers and making them small in my setup. Hopefully that will change things a lot. Will wait and see how that would sound


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post #5652 of 6621 Old 09-02-2014, 06:02 PM
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are you still there wondering about having problems with the volume having to SET too loud to wake up your speakers

Volumes at 75-80 on my X4000 sounds good and felt home theater like. Below that is just fine. I guess I am beginning to appreciate the sound to some level. I will be buying the woofer in the next week or so hence reducing the load of the towers and making them small in my setup. Hopefully that will change things a lot. Will wait and see how that would sound


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1 idea I want you to check on because you have a nice setup so far is you probably have ran the Odyssey set up for the speakers sometimes when that runs it will automatically put the front speakers to small size sounding go into the settings and set the front towers to large speakers I think that might make the difference I have to do it on my Yamaha receiver every time I use auto setup and puts my fronts to small which I don't want so go in but it sounds fuller and a bit louder when they are set to large give that a try let me know.also always having a subwoofer is a great idea it takes up the slack in the soundstage I have one also in my theater.and that was a great thing I did for the system...
Remember set everything to Large.

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post #5653 of 6621 Old 09-02-2014, 06:25 PM
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Sorry, bad advice. If a sub is present in the configuration, then setting the speakers to Small is the correct answer. The sub is much better at handling the low frequencies than the mains. If there is no sub, then Audyssey will not set the speakers to Small. However, adding a sub would significantly improve the overall audio quality.
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post #5654 of 6621 Old 09-02-2014, 07:52 PM
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to reply back to you about being bad adviceI don't agree with you one bit the only thing I do agree with you about is when Odyssey is running if there's a sub involved it will set the other speakers too small but when you're looking for a certain sound the suggestion I was giving him was that I set mine too large then I added the presence of a sub and they gave me even more full of sound that is a suggestion I think is worthy
Andas he said at this time he does not have a subwoofer so make sure the speakers are set to large let me know.

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post #5655 of 6621 Old 09-02-2014, 11:57 PM
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Hey guys!

So I'm trying to decide on the speakers for my first (budget) audiophile system. After auditioning, I've narrowed it down to the PSB Imagine X2T and the Paradigm Monitor 11s. I figured the PSB owners thread would be a good place to ask this question, as I've heard so little about the X2Ts and it's a bit daunting for an audiophile newbie.

To give some context on my setup: it's going to be a living room setup for a college house of 6 guys. As such, it's going to be playing just about every genre of music, and for that reason I've been leaning towards a neutral sound signature (I tend to like that anyway). Also, as our living room is a little awkwardly laid out, it's important that the speakers still sound similar at angles. (I noticed that the Monitor 11s have a superior frequency response at 30 degrees to the X2Ts; am I correct in assuming that this means the Monitor 11s will perform better at an angled listening position?)

I thought it would be easy to compare the two after auditioning, but I'm having far more trouble than I thought. To my untrained ears, they both sound great. The only note that I could make was that the Monitor 11s seemed to have slightly more fatiguing (and airy) vocals, though I have no clue if this had something to do with the amp setup, room size, or volume. I'm going in again to audition them back-to-back on Thursday, but it's just so tricky comparing speakers when they're at different stores and you can't listen to them them side by side.

So, for that reason, I'd greatly appreciate general opinions about these speakers and speaker brands. How do they compare? How have your experiences been with the brand/specific speakers? I'd also really appreciate any tips on "remembering" the two unique sounds that I hear from the speakers and comparing them. Are there certain things I should be looking for?

I'm really excited to begin my audiophile journey, and I'd be so grateful if you guys could help steer me towards the best decision!

Thanks so much.
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post #5656 of 6621 Old 09-03-2014, 08:17 AM
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Very nice choices on the speakers I can see your dilemma on this the X2D is a more neutral sounding speakers were the monitors 11 are a little more bright on highs for me but depends on the surroundings is it ceramic tile concrete rugs what type of when you go to audition them bring a favorite CD and a favorite DVD movie Blu ray that way you know the sounds that are familiar to you and if it sounds better to you on certain sceneswhat type of equipment do you have and are you also don't you add a sub or two to the setup.
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post #5657 of 6621 Old 09-03-2014, 06:10 PM
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I received my T2's last week am very pleased for the most part. I am picking up a little bit of distortion or buzzing in some of the vocals in music and dialogue. Has anyone experienced this with these speakers? For now I'm chalking this up to needing more break in time.
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post #5658 of 6621 Old 09-03-2014, 06:50 PM
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Modern speakers need no break in time. I specifically called PSB when I purchased my Synchrony One's asking about break-in time, and they assured me none was required.

A buzzing sound is more likely due to electronics, than to something with the speakers. I would try a process of elimination to see if you can identify the source of the noise.

Interesting read: Burn in Q&A

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post #5659 of 6621 Old 09-04-2014, 11:04 AM
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Very nice choices on the speakers I can see your dilemma on this the X2D is a more neutral sounding speakers were the monitors 11 are a little more bright on highs for me but depends on the surroundings is it ceramic tile concrete rugs what type of when you go to audition them bring a favorite CD and a favorite DVD movie Blu ray that way you know the sounds that are familiar to you and if it sounds better to you on certain sceneswhat type of equipment do you have and are you also don't you add a sub or two to the setup.
Thanks for the input! The walls in the living room are currently pretty bare, and are made of concrete. Would this make the sound brighter or warmer?

EDIT: Also, I have two more questions that I've been wondering about.

The PSB X2T cites its 30 degrees off-axis frequency response as 45 Hz - 10,000 Hz, while the Paradigm Monitor 11s supposedly have a FR off-axis of 42 Hz - 18,000 Hz. Does this mean that the Monitor 11s will sound better at greater listening angles?

Lastly, do you guys think that the PSB X2T has sufficient bass without need of a subwoofer?

Thanks again guys.

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post #5660 of 6621 Old 09-05-2014, 04:31 AM
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bare walls make for brighter sound as well as poor imaging....sound treatments to a room are THE biggest and most cost effective upgrade you can make you want to try to dampen reflections as much as possible

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post #5661 of 6621 Old 09-05-2014, 09:18 AM
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My latest PSB purchase for my secondary system. Very nice sounding speakers




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post #5662 of 6621 Old 09-05-2014, 05:49 PM
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My latest PSB purchase for my secondary system. Very nice sounding speakers




Very nice speakers you got congratulations on your purchase.
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post #5663 of 6621 Old 09-06-2014, 08:22 AM
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Very nice speakers you got congratulations on your purchase.
Thanks Mark.

My secondary system has now been completed from a speaker purchase POV. It started with a trade of a Blackberry Torch for a pair of original PSB Alphas to be used as my left/right mains. I already had a sub, a PSB Subsonic 5 which was replaced by a Rythmik LV-12R in my main system. This put me on the road to complete the center and surround speakers.

I picked up PSB 100c center channel in July for $75 and a pair of B Tech stands for $20 to support the Alphas. I picked up a pair of Alpha Mites and another pair of stands for $140. I now have two complete systems.

What's cool is the 2nd system is built on left overs and used components found on Kijijji, a site selling used everything .







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post #5664 of 6621 Old 09-07-2014, 05:54 PM
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Very nice speakers you got congratulations on your purchase.
Thanks Mark.

My secondary system has now been completed from a speaker purchase POV. It started with a trade of a Blackberry Torch for a pair of original PSB Alphas to be used as my left/right mains. I already had a sub, a PSB Subsonic 5 which was replaced by a Rythmik LV-12R in my main system. This put me on the road to complete the center and surround speakers.

I picked up PSB 100c center channel in July for $75 and a pair of B Tech stands for $20 to support the Alphas. I picked up a pair of Alpha Mites and another pair of stands for $140. I now have two complete systems.

What's cool is the 2nd system is built on left overs and used components found on Kijijji, a site selling used everything .







wow you did great excellent deal you got on your speakers so you're all set have you hooked up yet and how does it sound
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post #5665 of 6621 Old 09-08-2014, 04:34 PM
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Hey guys,
Are any of you using Outlaw amps for your PSB Imagine or Synchrony setups? I know that many believe that amps tend to be neutral in their impact upon sound quality, as I have as a matter of common sense, but I'm debating between going with a new Class D NAD M27 and a used, almost new Class A/B Outlaw 7700 I have a lead on from the classifieds. Other than convenience features, do any of you have a sense of reliability (meaning: lack of hum issues) from the Outlaw line vs. a Class D amp, by point of comparison in terms of the response of the T2s in particular? The Outlaws are highly regarded by some, but curious what the thoughts are with the line we know and love here in practice.


The Outlaw 7700 I would get is about LT 40% of the cost of the new NAD (the M27 is almost $4K), and I'd use it to power my 7.1 Imagine-based configuration (see my sig for details), so unless there's strong feelings/issues I should know about with the Imagine towers and Outlaw, I'd lean toward the cheaper solution for our room. I'm going to a separate amp in preparation for moving to a pre/pro for Atmos, hence I'm looking at seven-channel amp solutions with plenty of headroom. Both the 7700 and the M27 would easily fit the bill there, giving me about 200 W/Channel @ 8 ohms, with the primary difference being the M27 being Class D and size: 90+ lbs. for the 7700 vs. around 31 for the M27.


I'm also going to CEDIA - I don't see any PSB/NAD representation at the booths AFAIK.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 16/24, NAD M27 and Wyred4Sound MMC-7 amps
Display: Panasonic VT50, Lumagen Radiance Mini. Misc.: Oppo 103, Samsung K8500 UHD player, JRiver
Speakers: PSB Imagine T2, Center, Imagine T Wides and Side Surrounds, Imagine S rear surrounds,
PSB Imagine XA Dolby AE Speakers (4), HSU ULS-15 subs (2) - 9.2.4

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post #5666 of 6621 Old 09-09-2014, 09:45 AM
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wow you did great excellent deal you got on your speakers so you're all set have you hooked up yet and how does it sound
I've had the center channel (100c), the left/right mains (Alphas) and the subsonic 5 already running and it sounds very nice. I haven't had the chance to get the surrounds engaged yet,, in the process of modifieing stands to support them. Unfortunately for me, the room is set up correct from a positional perspective but as a 2nd system, it will do. The sub is behind the entertainment center.
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post #5667 of 6621 Old 09-09-2014, 09:48 AM
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Hey guys,
Are any of you using Outlaw amps for your PSB Imagine or Synchrony setups? I know that many believe that amps tend to be neutral in their impact upon sound quality, as I have as a matter of common sense, but I'm debating between going with a new Class D NAD M27 and a used, almost new Class A/B Outlaw 7700 I have a lead on from the classifieds. Other than convenience features, do any of you have a sense of reliability (meaning: lack of hum issues) from the Outlaw line vs. a Class D amp, by point of comparison in terms of the response of the T2s in particular? The Outlaws are highly regarded by some, but curious what the thoughts are with the line we know and love here in practice.


The Outlaw 7700 I would get is about LT 40% of the cost of the new NAD (the M27 is almost $4K), and I'd use it to power my 7.1 Imagine-based configuration (see my sig for details), so unless there's strong feelings/issues I should know about with the Imagine towers and Outlaw, I'd lean toward the cheaper solution for our room. I'm going to a separate amp in preparation for moving to a pre/pro for Atmos, hence I'm looking at seven-channel amp solutions with plenty of headroom. Both the 7700 and the M27 would easily fit the bill there, giving me about 200 W/Channel @ 8 ohms, with the primary difference being the M27 being Class D and size: 90+ lbs. for the 7700 vs. around 31 for the M27.


I'm also going to CEDIA - I don't see any PSB/NAD representation at the booths AFAIK.
I would go with the Outlaw for cost alone. NAD used to have a bad reliability problem but I don't know if this is still the case.
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post #5668 of 6621 Old 09-09-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
he Outlaws are highly regarded by some, but curious what the thoughts are with the line we know and love here in practice.

Definitely the 7-channel ATI AT6005, Stuart.
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post #5669 of 6621 Old 09-09-2014, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Definitely the 7-channel ATI AT6005, Stuart.

116 lbs, dual line cords, and ideally used with dual 20 amp circuits. 300 watts @ 8 ohms, and 450 watts @ 4; just the thing you'd want to use with those PSB Imagine T2s, if I feel the need to crank up Master and Commander in our condo living room. Also $7995. :eek


At least the baby (who incidentally turned 1 today, so he's been promoted to toddler) won't be able to knock it over .


http://ati-amp.com/AT6000.php

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post #5670 of 6621 Old 09-09-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Definitely the 7-channel ATI AT6005, Stuart.

116 lbs, dual line cords, and ideally used with dual 20 amp circuits. 300 watts @ 8 ohms, and 450 watts @ 4; just the thing you'd want to use with those PSB Imagine T2s, if I feel the need to crank up Master and Commander in our condo living room. Also $7995. :eek


At least the baby (who incidentally turned 1 today, so he's been promoted to toddler) won't be able to knock it over .


http://ati-amp.com/AT6000.php
I've also been thinking about buying a external amp for my system been trying to find out more about them and also need a new audio video receiver with the pre outs to use the amplifier I've been watching videos on Emotiva website they seem really nice so is outlaw amps I think there more expensive than Emotiva which one do you like I don't mind about paying more for quality and the one thing I can't find out about is how or why is there a humming problems with amplifiers...:sunglasses:
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