PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 199 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5941 of 5968 Old 02-06-2015, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post
But why does bass put the greatest deman on an AVR power reserves? It's because that's where the content is.



No, the two graphs together give the impedance. The first graph shows the resistive portion; the second graph shows the reactive portion. Resistance does indeed vary with frequency on just about any loudspeaker. Reactance does as well.
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^As an electrical engineer myself, I just looked at the plots again.....and you are right. I was totally wrong. My mistake. I apologize.
No worries man ... and apologies not needed.
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post #5942 of 5968 Old 02-06-2015, 03:10 PM
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Anybody have experience with PSB subwoofers? It seems like their speakers are highly regarded but the subwoofers are kind of "meh". I currently have an ancient Sony subwoofer that I bought when I was a university student. It still works fine, even though I've beat the crap out of it, but it was never a high quality piece. I need something smallish for WAF and the PSB and the SubSeries 125 looks to be about the right size. I am not looking for earth shaking bass, just something to beef up the low end. My problem is that there are no PSB dealers around here, so I can't just go and have a listen to one.
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post #5943 of 5968 Old 02-06-2015, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jnak View Post
Anybody have experience with PSB subwoofers? It seems like their speakers are highly regarded but the subwoofers are kind of "meh".
I owned one with a 12" ported box. A friend had a klipsch with a similar configuration and it outperformed my PSB by a wide margin. Ive heard some good things about their higher end ones but they are expensive for what you get. SVS or HSU is my recommendation. PSB and Paradigm are not really as great at subs as they are speakers.

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post #5944 of 5968 Old 02-10-2015, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post
I owned one with a 12" ported box. A friend had a klipsch with a similar configuration and it outperformed my PSB by a wide margin. Ive heard some good things about their higher end ones but they are expensive for what you get. SVS or HSU is my recommendation. PSB and Paradigm are not really as great at subs as they are speakers.
I agree. There are better subwoofers to be had via Rythmik SVS, HSU, Reaction just to name a few than what PSB delivers. I thought I had a decent sub with the Subsonic 5 but the Rythmik LV12-R just blows it out of the water in terms of extension articulation, and max SPL.
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post #5945 of 5968 Old 02-12-2015, 12:02 AM
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Are the PSB Imagine B in gloss black on clearance? Seems like they're selling for a lot less than the cherry veneer version.


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post #5946 of 5968 Old 02-12-2015, 12:37 AM
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from Audio Advisor they are labeled Brand-New Gear On Sale in Gloss Black. $599.
Got mine a week ago, (pristine finish) with no webbing paint effect, nor anything damaged/blemished. Sound is superb.
Best price on B's I've ever seen, & new.
They also have this on sale, which is another decent deal.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBKMINI
Are you aware of another source Doc?

**also, anyone know if the psb FS 27 stands would be suitable for Imagine B's?

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post #5947 of 5968 Old 02-12-2015, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peeping huffer View Post
from Audio Advisor they are labeled Brand-New Gear On Sale in Gloss Black. $599.
Got mine a week ago, (pristine finish) with no webbing paint effect, nor anything damaged/blemished. Sound is superb.
Best price on B's I've ever seen, & new.
They also have this on sale, which is another decent deal.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBKMINI
Are you aware of another source Doc?

**also, anyone know if the psb FS 27 stands would be suitable for Imagine B's?
No, just the price on Audio Advisor. I saw a gloss black demo pair for $521 or something like that the other day and they sold very quickly. I wish I had an extra $600 lying around.


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post #5948 of 5968 Old 02-12-2015, 08:48 AM
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Great price for sure! Are the 'real' Imagines starting to fade away?

When I bought my Image B6, C5 and S setup, I had one eye on the Imagine B with real wood veneer (and double the cost of B6). After almost 2 years enjoying the excellent sound of my Images for music and movies, I still have one eye on the Imagine B which my dealer has new for the same price as Saturday Audio refurbs.

Would these be a worthwhile upgrade for my mains? I don't think the new imagine X sounds as good as the B6, although there could be some 'cheap black box' bias happening there, too.

Imagine X replaces Image, supposedly with similar/better performance at similar price point, but cheaper construction.

Is this following the pattern that Image came out and overtook the Imagine with similar performance (same drivers?), cheaper construction and cheaper price point?

I'm thinking out loud here about the whole trickle down technology thing. I don't want to upgrade just to get wood veneer, I want a more refined sound!

I would keep the other Images and my SVS sb-1000 fed by a Marantz SR8002. CD source Oppo DV-970HD and Blu-Rays on Sony BDP-S5100.

Thanks!

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Last edited by joesthai; 02-12-2015 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Enjoying my Images, not Imagines...yet.
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post #5949 of 5968 Old 02-12-2015, 02:46 PM
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Image B6 to Imagine B a worthy upgrade?

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Originally Posted by joesthai View Post
After almost 2 years enjoying the excellent sound of my Images for music and movies, I still have one eye on the Imagine B which my dealer has new for the same price as Saturday Audio refurbs....
Thanks!
BTW, Audioadvisor won't ship PSB outside the US, so my cost would still be $879 to upgrade Image B6 to Imagine B.

Maybe I should look at the crossovers and upgrade some caps? I had good results DIY tweaking my past Mission speakers. Haven't seen much talk of tweaking PSB crossovers.

J

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post #5950 of 5968 Old 02-12-2015, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by joesthai View Post
Great price for sure! Are the 'real' Imagines starting to fade away?

When I bought my Image B6, C5 and S setup, I had one eye on the Imagine B with real wood veneer (and double the cost of B6). After almost 2 years enjoying the excellent sound of my Images for music and movies, I still have one eye on the Imagine B which my dealer has new for the same price as Saturday Audio refurbs.

Would these be a worthwhile upgrade for my mains? I don't think the new imagine X sounds as good as the B6, although there could be some 'cheap black box' bias happening there, too.

Imagine X replaces Image, supposedly with similar/better performance at similar price point, but cheaper construction.

Is this following the pattern that Image came out and overtook the Imagine with similar performance (same drivers?), cheaper construction and cheaper price point?

I'm thinking out loud here about the whole trickle down technology thing. I don't want to upgrade just to get wood veneer, I want a more refined sound!

I would keep the other Images and my SVS sb-1000 fed by a Marantz SR8002. CD source Oppo DV-970HD and Blu-Rays on Sony BDP-S5100.

Thanks!
The Imagine "X" series shares the same drivers as the Imagine lineup. The Image does not. Those were different drivers.

Take your Image fronts to a dealer that sells the Imagine or Imagine X series and tell them you're interested in comparing the different speakers. If you don't hear much of a difference there's no need to buy them.


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post #5951 of 5968 Old 02-12-2015, 11:26 PM
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Thanks Doc, A head to head demo is a great idea and probably the only way to know! IIRC, the Imagine Bs were sweeter sounding than B6, but not 2X more so two years ago! I think the Imagines still sound better at the shop now, but no Images left to compare them to. There are just too many variables at the shop compared to my Living Room. There are a pair of Synchrony Bs and Synchrony 2Bs to demo though and the Imagines hold their own well!

Do you really think PSB would put the Imagine drivers in the new 'plain black box' x series? They are still making the 'real' Imagines, right?

Do you have a link to some info to supercede what Jim Price from PSB says about Image and Imagine using the 'same tweeter' in the Youtube video at
? (Link swiped from another PSB thread, thank you OP.) I think I've read most of these pages over the years and not seen anything definitive.

I would happily pull my B6 tweeter and see if there is a number to compare to someone's Imagine tweeter. Maybe an Imagine X user would join in?

I'm leaning towards seeing what I can do with the crossover since component qualities are probably dictated by the accounting department, not R and D! Some sweet poly caps might take the B6 up a notch, and an extra side to side cabinet brace is not hard to add.

Apologies to those who've been having this conversation since the Images were released!
All comments appreciated!
J
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post #5952 of 5968 Old 02-13-2015, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesthai View Post
Thanks Doc, A head to head demo is a great idea and probably the only way to know! IIRC, the Imagine Bs were sweeter sounding than B6, but not 2X more so two years ago! I think the Imagines still sound better at the shop now, but no Images left to compare them to. There are just too many variables at the shop compared to my Living Room. There are a pair of Synchrony Bs and Synchrony 2Bs to demo though and the Imagines hold their own well!

Do you really think PSB would put the Imagine drivers in the new 'plain black box' x series? They are still making the 'real' Imagines, right?

Do you have a link to some info to supercede what Jim Price from PSB says about Image and Imagine using the 'same tweeter' in the Youtube video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh_15x9zC9M ? (Link swiped from another PSB thread, thank you OP.) I think I've read most of these pages over the years and not seen anything definitive.

I would happily pull my B6 tweeter and see if there is a number to compare to someone's Imagine tweeter. Maybe an Imagine X user would join in?

I'm leaning towards seeing what I can do with the crossover since component qualities are probably dictated by the accounting department, not R and D! Some sweet poly caps might take the B6 up a notch, and an extra side to side cabinet brace is not hard to add.

Apologies to those who've been having this conversation since the Images were released!
All comments appreciated!
J
The Imagine and Imagine "X" series both use the same drivers. I'm pretty sure of it. In an effort to reduce costs they decided to stop manufacturing the Image drivers so they could just have one production line. So the big difference between the Imagine and Imagine "X" is in the cabinets and crossovers. And for all I know they may have the same crossovers. The only way to know would be to remove a crossover from each type of speaker.

If you can find a pair of the Syhchrony speakers on clearance that would definitely be a step up. Not sure if it would be worth the extra do re mi, but it's worth considering.

I've replaced a good number of the cheap electrolytic caps that come in most commercial grade speakers. Sometimes the difference is better and sometimes it's not. So if you plan to replace what is most likely cheap electrolytic caps with some decent metalized film caps, do it to one speaker first then do an A/B comparison between them. If you don't like what you hear you can convert them back to stock.

I agree that adding a dowel rod cross brace is easy and worth the effort. You may be able to improve on the damping material inside the cabinet too. Both are easy and inexpensive to do.


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post #5953 of 5968 Old 02-16-2015, 02:05 AM
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I know I recently posted about whether or not my Denon 1712 receiver would be a able to drive a new pair of PSB x2t. I got good feed back from y'all but I still can't help to think that the X2T are rated at 8ohns nominal, 4ohms minimum. Usually AVs aren't best suited for 4ohms speakers from what I've read. I just found someone who is selling a Marantz SR5009 for $500 locally and I was possibly going to try to get him to sell it for $450. Would the marantz SR5009 be an upgrade to my current Denon? The thing that really attracts me to the marantz is that it has pre outs in case I wanted to add a power amplifier. Many people told me I would be fine with my denon if listening at normal listening ranges but I like to listen to my music loud when I have the house all to my self or have friends over. I don't want my denon shutting off on me. Plus I'd be getting all the extra features that come with the SR5009, not that I'm big on all the features, but at $500 or possibly less it wouldn't kill me to have those extra features. What are y'alls thoughts?
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post #5954 of 5968 Old 02-16-2015, 04:29 AM
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The Marantz appears to have pre outs. The Denon does not. Get the Marantz and add a strong multi channel amp. Dont sling together a hodge podge of different amps. Keep them the same.

That is me'all's thoughts on your situation.

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post #5955 of 5968 Old 02-16-2015, 06:50 AM
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hello all. im new hear just recently upgraded my speakers to all psb.
My system is as follows.
-60"sony led 630b
-yamaha rxa1030
-yamaha bds2900
-ps4
-monster 1800 surgepro
-fios quantum net and tv
-fronts all x series x2t and xc
-sides are b6 and rears are s5 and they are on the back wall because the rooom is L shaped

I have a ? about running all these speakers together even though the b6 are 6ohm and the rest are 8ohm nominal speakers is this ok for the reciever and or speakers etc?
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post #5956 of 5968 Old 02-16-2015, 06:51 AM
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btw my sub is a svs pc13ultra and i also have a deftech prosub1000 that i usually dont use
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post #5957 of 5968 Old 02-16-2015, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charmcitychaos View Post
hello all. im new hear just recently upgraded my speakers to all psb.
My system is as follows.
-60"sony led 630b
-yamaha rxa1030
-yamaha bds2900
-ps4
-monster 1800 surgepro
-fios quantum net and tv
-fronts all x series x2t and xc
-sides are b6 and rears are s5 and they are on the back wall because the rooom is L shaped

I have a ? about running all these speakers together even though the b6 are 6ohm and the rest are 8ohm nominal speakers is this ok for the reciever and or speakers etc?
That is not an issue at all. I mix Synchrony One's (4 Ohm) and Imaging B's (8 Ohm) with no issues.
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post #5958 of 5968 Old 02-23-2015, 01:14 PM
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Hi fellows,

I am building a modest system for bedroom... Being offered by the local dealer with both Image B6 (demo, bargain at 250 euros) or brand new-boxed Imagine XB, bargain (270 euros) I found myself confused...

B6 is bigger, should be louder, with deeper bass... BX is, on the other hand, newer model, should be upper class in the line-up (Imagine is step above Image)... Finish vinyl, unimpressive in both cases. Price wase, almost equal story.

Is there any palpable difference in, say, driver or crossover technology? Any healthy reason to make the better choice?

TNX in advance
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post #5959 of 5968 Old 02-24-2015, 08:16 AM
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The drivers in the Imagine X series are from the Imagine line that was a step up from the Image series. Imagine X replaces the Image series by borrowing the drivers from the Imagine series and placing them in a plainer wrapper.

I auditioned the Image and Imagine series 3 years ago and chose the Imagine B. In all likelihood I would choose the Imagine X over the Image series for much the same reason.
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post #5960 of 5968 Old 02-25-2015, 12:17 AM
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The gloss white Imagine Bs are on sale for $599 if anyone is interested. No affiliation.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMGB



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post #5961 of 5968 Old 02-25-2015, 07:14 AM
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A steal at that price. I got mine for the same price, owing to a supposed "blemish" (took me 20 minutes to find it and it is invisible to anyone who doesn't lift the speaker off the stand). I would have gladly paid MSRP after auditioning them. Anyone in the market for a pair and can shop at that store, I say, "go for it" (though I do prefer my Dark Cherry veneer to the gloss white).
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Lightbulb

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Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius View Post
...
If you can find a pair of the Syhchrony speakers on clearance that would definitely be a step up. Not sure if it would be worth the extra do re mi, but it's worth...
Well, have pulled the B6 drivers and crossovers - cheap electrolytics it seems to me- part numbers and pictures coming soon (er or later!)

But the surprise is I just ran across a local pair of second hand Synchrony One B in excellent condition for $950. Those have the same 6" driver as the renowned $4500. Synchrony One towers. And a better tweeter than Imagines. (supposedly!)

Seems like that would be a better choice than the last NIB original Imagines B at the shop for almost the same price.

And both are leagues above the new imagine X series, which do not sound as good as my Image B, although they are great at their price point.

And yes, I have a case of up-itis, but actually I'm pretty sure speakers are my weakest link right now! I also don't have any decent caps to throw in the B6 as an experiment either.

Comments appreciated!

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Can anyone help me gather more info on which tweeters are used in which PSB models? Pictures would be awesome. I will edit this list with your input. Thanks!

PSB Stratus Silver and Gold i use Vifa D25ag-07-06
PSB Synchrony One tweeter is PSB SY 101, costs $70.
PSB Imagine B is PSB 1N 11NH, costs
PSB Image B6 is PSB IM 11NH with 1128 , sticker on front under rubber
Psb Image S5 Surround is PSB IM 11NH with 1120, sticker on front under rubber

PSB Image B6 dual magnet 6.5" driver is PSB IG 16-2B with 1128 below, sticker on side of magnet

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PSB Tweeter Images

PSB Image B6 Images ;-)

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post #5965 of 5968 Unread Today, 07:36 PM
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PSB Image S5 Surround

PSB Image Surround Image ;-) I wonder if the 4 digit numer is a date code or what?

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post #5967 of 5968 Unread Today, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Why are you collecting this information?
Hi, Long answer posts 5948 and 5962. Short answer, I'm baffled by the evolution and marketing of PSB speakers.

Did Synchrony best the previous models? It would seem so.

Did Imagine nearly match Synchrony one year later for 1/2 the money?

Did Image come close to Imagine for 1/2 the money (1/4 the Synchrony money)?

Why could Imagine X replace Synchrony, longstanding bread and butter Image series, and even Alpha at the bottom pricing point?

It seems that PSB may be going for cheaper mass market over quality. I totally understand market driven product placement, but where is the sweet spot for my pending upgrade?

Thanks,
J

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PSB Image C5 Centre

Image C5 Center

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