PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 201 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6001 of 6028 Old 03-14-2015, 12:49 PM
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I have just taken apart my Image B5 and Imagine B for a comparison of build quality. (I've always wanted to do this anyway, so now was a good as time as any while the subject was up)


Tweeters look the same with the same part numbers. Build on the Imagine B is certainly a lot better. Cabinet is more braced and solid. Much more internal sound deadening material more thoughtfully placed. Crossovers are certainly different. The woofer driver and magnates and castings appear to be the same except for the cosmetic differences at the front.


First pic is Image B5 x-over. Then Imagine B x-over. 3rd pic, Imagine B driver is on the right.
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post #6002 of 6028 Old 03-15-2015, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by musicduck View Post
Greetings fellow PSB owners.

In September I started putting together my system after 2 years of research. I netted a 'full set' of PSB Synchrony speakers (2x Synchrony-One, 2x Synchrony-One-B, 1x Synchrony-One-C, and 2x Synchrony-S-Surround) before they disappeared from stock. I connected them to a NAD M27 and an OPPO BDP-105D (Thank you Scott at ListenUp in Denver, who shipped these to me in Thailand). My goal was to have a very good system with for watching movies. Music was my secondary choice. I wanted simple to use, but with enough power to listen to anything well. All of the components are stellar and I feel fortunate to have such a setup.

After months of very happy listening to movies and music, I noticed that during movies there were times when the bass needed a bit more "oomph". To the credit of all the components, the movie watching sound was amazing. Gone were all the, 'what did they say' mid range questions during quieter parts of movies. After a few weeks of reading and seeing what was locally available in Thailand, I added a Golden Ear ForceField Five subwoofer. That missing oomph during crash/bang movies is here now - bigtime. Watching Movies like Edge of Tomorrow and Tron Legacy is now a physical as well as auditory experience.

My question is this: Crossover settings - Given the accuracy of the PSB Synchrony One's, what should I set the crossover at for the Sub? (both in the OPPO and on the GEFF5). I have played with the settings a bit, set everything to 80Hz, and mostly the GEFF5 shows its power in movies. It is awesome. I connected the GEFF5 to the 105D's SW via RCA cable, and have the Gain set to about 3 (counting the dots from 0 to 10 from min to max). My other option is to run the front right/left output from the 105D through the GEFF5 then to the PSB Synchrony One's vice the SW output and skip the SW out.

I have noticed that when playing music (Daft Punk's Tron: Legacy soundtrack, "Adagio for Tron" remixed by Teddybears) the GEFF5 is much less 'there' than in movies, and I do not know if this is an artifact of multi-channel recordings in movies vs CD's being artificially multi-channel Down Mixed to 7.1. The music is certainly there and sounds excellent, but lacks the body feeling oomph in the movies, and that was present when I auditioned the GEFF5.

Suggestions?
Forum members:

Thank you for the details and recommendations. I set the crossover to 70Hz on the OPPO 105D and on the Golden Ear ForceField Five (GEFF5) subwoofer. I took the wisdom from Bob Pariseau's many posts and set the OPPO for all my speakers to 'small'. I left the sub connected via RCA cable to SW out. I set the gain on the sub to about the 9'oclock position and then did some test listening


Godzilla,
Super 8 (holy train crash of Bass ), The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, and a whole slew of Youtube videos from
, to a
, to Local Thai Music (
fun
) and (
), and CD's. Now regardless of what I play (music, videos, CD's, etc) I have a full presence bass to go with the PSB speakers.

I kept playing with the setting some and after about an hour of slightly moving the sub around, and adjusting the OPPO. I ended up shortening the distance of the SW from 9.25' to about 8.75'. I noticed that shortening the distance seemed to move the bass 'forward' some, so that it matches where we sit on the couch. At 9.25' the Bass hit you if you were leaning back on the couch, but the moment you leaned forward, it dropped off considerably. At 8.75' I can now sit anywhere on the couch and get hit by the massive wave of 'oomph'.

This sub is incredibly powerful and I want to thank Golden Ear for the goodness. It matches my setup well, albeit I have to turn the sub down quite a bit to keep from over powering in its presence. Next up will be some adjusting in the OPPO vice the GEFF5 to see if -10db or so electronically sounds better vice being so low on the dial on the GEFF5.

Thanks again everyone!
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post #6003 of 6028 Old 03-15-2015, 07:33 AM
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In order to get everything set properly, including the best location for the sub, the best crossover value, the best sub trim and distance, etc., you need to be measuring the audio performance of your system. Consider using a tool like REW, combined with a laptop and a USB mic, to measure and improve what you have. It is time well-spent, resulting in making sure you have achieved the best performance for the investment you have made. There is a link in my sig that will help you get started with REW, should you decide to do so. Nice progress so far!
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post #6004 of 6028 Old 03-15-2015, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
I have just taken apart my Image B5 and Imagine B for a comparison of build quality. (I've always wanted to do this anyway, so now was a good as time as any while the subject was up)


Tweeters look the same with the same part numbers. Build on the Imagine B is certainly a lot better. Cabinet is more braced and solid. Much more internal sound deadening material more thoughtfully placed. Crossovers are certainly different. The woofer driver and magnates and castings appear to be the same except for the cosmetic differences at the front.


First pic is Image B5 x-over. Then Imagine B x-over. 3rd pic, Imagine B driver is on the right.
Thanks for taking the time to post this information.


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post #6005 of 6028 Old 03-15-2015, 06:02 PM
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Some feedback: a speaker placed on a shelf like you show in the picture is subject to SBIR (speaker boundary interference reaction), which can alter the speaker's response characteristics. Since the center speaker is so important to dialog intelligibility, you may not be getting optimal performance.

Fortunately, this can be solved by simply placing the center speaker on a stand 1-2 feet in front of the entertainment center. It is pretty easy to test this out using a couple of boxes as a temporary stand. Place the speaker several feet off of the ground, and angle the speaker upwards so it points directly at the MLP. If you use room correction like Audyssey, you should re-run the correction with the speaker on the temporary stand, and then conduct listening tests, focusing on something with strong center-channel content. I'll bet you will hear a significant improvement.

You want to make sure you are getting the best from those nice new speakers!
thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately with a 4 year old and a 9 month old using the same room I cannot leave the speaker 1-2 feet sitting in front of it. It would be nice to do that but that's not gonna happen.

Eventually my basement will be my dedicated man cave with my home theater setup.

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post #6006 of 6028 Old 03-15-2015, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
I have just taken apart my Image B5 and Imagine B for a comparison of build quality. (I've always wanted to do this anyway, so now was a good as time as any while the subject was up)


Tweeters look the same with the same part numbers. Build on the Imagine B is certainly a lot better. Cabinet is more braced and solid. Much more internal sound deadening material more thoughtfully placed. Crossovers are certainly different. The woofer driver and magnates and castings appear to be the same except for the cosmetic differences at the front.


First pic is Image B5 x-over. Then Imagine B x-over. 3rd pic, Imagine B driver is on the right.
Thanks. Interesting stuff. Do the two woofers seem to weigh about the same?

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post #6007 of 6028 Old 03-16-2015, 01:22 AM
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Thanks. Interesting stuff. Do the two woofers seem to weigh about the same?
Yeah they feel about the same weight. I couldn't pick any difference around the magnates.


Any difference in size in the photo was just the way I was holding the camera.
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post #6008 of 6028 Old 03-16-2015, 10:29 AM
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The Synchrony tweeter part number is PSB SY 101.

Just to make sure it is the tweeter that is defective, and not the crossover electronics, I swapped tweeters in the two Synchrony towers. Confirmed--it's the tweeter. I'll be back up and running by Monday.

Actually, since a lot of what I am watching these days is satellite TV programming, which is heavy on center-channel content, I can hardly tell that the tweeter is dead. It could have stayed that way for a while, but I happened to run the speaker level-setting white noise and immediately could tell something was wrong.
Hi Jerry

Is there a demo disk that one can buy that can be used to tell whether a tweeter or woofer is blown in a speaker? I had my HT sound system calibrated last week by a pro and that is when I found out that the tweeter on one of my speakers had blown. I had used Audyssey to calibrate the speakers just before that but it did not tell me that the tweeter was malfunctioning. I'm thinking that if there was a demo disk that I could use, I would run it from time to time just to make sure that everything was working as expected.

Thanks for your help.

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post #6009 of 6028 Old 03-16-2015, 11:39 AM
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Hi Jerry

Is there a demo disk that one can buy that can be used to tell whether a tweeter or woofer is blown in a speaker? I had my HT sound system calibrated last week by a pro and that is when I found out that the tweeter on one of my speakers had blown. I had used Audyssey to calibrate the speakers just before that but it did not tell me that the tweeter was malfunctioning. I'm thinking that if there was a demo disk that I could use, I would run it from time to time just to make sure that everything was working as expected.

Thanks for your help.

Cal68
To me the word "blown" implies that the tweeter is no longer working, dead as a door nail. Simply placing your ear in front of the tweeter will tell you if it is dead or not. If, on the other hand, the tweeter is damaged, but still outputting some level of sound, it may not be obvious as if the tweeter was dead. In this case, you can either rely on your ears by listening to the tweeters on two speakers back and forth to see if there is an obvious difference. The best way, of course, would be to actually measure the frequency response of the tweeter using a measurement tool like REW.

As far as recommending a particular demo disk, I don't think a disk is required. Simply play the speaker level-setting pink noise tones from your AVR. Pink noise is very effective in revealing differences in response characteristics.
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post #6010 of 6028 Old 03-18-2015, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
To me the word "blown" implies that the tweeter is no longer working, dead as a door nail. Simply placing your ear in front of the tweeter will tell you if it is dead or not. If, on the other hand, the tweeter is damaged, but still outputting some level of sound, it may not be obvious as if the tweeter was dead. In this case, you can either rely on your ears by listening to the tweeters on two speakers back and forth to see if there is an obvious difference. The best way, of course, would be to actually measure the frequency response of the tweeter using a measurement tool like REW.

As far as recommending a particular demo disk, I don't think a disk is required. Simply play the speaker level-setting pink noise tones from your AVR. Pink noise is very effective in revealing differences in response characteristics.
Hi Jerry

I agree that placing my ear against the tweeter would tell me if was blown or not, but two of my surrounds are a bit high up behind me so I'd need a step stool to get up high enough to place my ear against them. That is why it seemed to me that if there was a disc I could use, that would be a simpler solution. I will try the speaker level pink noise tone and see how that works. Or maybe it is time to get the REW tool!

Thanks for your advice.

Cal68

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post #6011 of 6028 Old 03-18-2015, 01:28 PM
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i have imagine T2 and C for the front stage.
is having imagine T's for surrounds overkill?
comparing the price in a used market: imagine B with a decent high stand vs Imagine T, the price is pretty close i think.
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post #6012 of 6028 Old 03-18-2015, 03:14 PM
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i have imagine T2 and C for the front stage.
is having imagine T's for surrounds overkill?
comparing the price in a used market: imagine B with a decent high stand vs Imagine T, the price is pretty close i think.

I don't think it's overkill to use the Imagine T's for surrounds. To me, the closer you can get to identical speakers all around, the better. I'm using Synchrony 2 Towers as surrounds with Synchrony One Towers for front L&R.
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post #6013 of 6028 Old 03-18-2015, 03:27 PM
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Ideally, five identical speakers are the way to go (or 7 or 9 or etc.), so there is no "overkill" to worry about here. At the very least, you should have five matching tweeters (and that's already the case). If you have room and funds, go for it.
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post #6014 of 6028 Old 03-18-2015, 09:49 PM
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nice, thanks for the suggestions, we'll see if i can make it happen, my only concern in either scenario: height (speaker stands) for the rear speakers.
for the imagine B, i would need something pretty high for the back surrounds (30" tall stand) and the imagine T in the back at 37 1/4", would preferably need an additional 4 inches. maybe by putting 3 ply woods together?

Last edited by skads_187; 03-18-2015 at 10:01 PM.
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post #6015 of 6028 Old 03-19-2015, 01:54 AM
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I don't think it's overkill to use the Imagine T's for surrounds. To me, the closer you can get to identical speakers all around, the better. I'm using Synchrony 2 Towers as surrounds with Synchrony One Towers for front L&R.
Same brand and same series all the way around is the best thing I ever did.
Long live the STRATUS!!!!
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post #6016 of 6028 Old 03-19-2015, 02:42 PM
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Same brand and same series all the way around is the best thing I ever did.
Long live the STRATUS!!!!
got another question , more for future consideration, would i be be able to upgrade to the new C3 for the center channel? to go along with the t2 fronts
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post #6017 of 6028 Old 03-19-2015, 10:41 PM
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got another question , more for future consideration, would i be be able to upgrade to the new C3 for the center channel? to go along with the t2 fronts
I would think the C3 wouldn't be the same. Even though it shares the imagine name, appears to be a different animal altogether.
diy sub-risers would be ideal for height considerations. In speaker dimensions, of course, & similar or custom carpet color.
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post #6018 of 6028 Old 03-20-2015, 05:55 AM
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I would think the C3 wouldn't be the same. Even though it shares the imagine name, appears to be a different animal altogether.
diy sub-risers would be ideal for height considerations. In speaker dimensions, of course, & similar or custom carpet color.
~git 'er Dunn...
i had a feeling, maybe one day i can go up to t3 and c3 lol

good thinking about the diy sub-riser, actually my thinking was along the lines of 2x4's and plywood, but your idea seems better, just gotta do some research on it now.
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post #6019 of 6028 Old 03-20-2015, 10:52 AM
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i had a feeling, maybe one day i can go up to t3 and c3 lol

good thinking about the diy sub-riser, actually my thinking was along the lines of 2x4's and plywood, but your idea seems better, just gotta do some research on it now.
2x4's & ply. will do it, it's how I did mine. If you can imagine it, build it.
Foam the hollow center. final with staple gun & carpet. -ahh & 1" or 1.25" screws.

I'm still saving for my imagine set-up. Buying 2 sets, My bro. & me.
bro. gets: imagine B / C fronts, with b25 surrounds. & old 12" sub.
I get: imagine T1 / C / mini x4 / image s50 / & sub of choice. HSU or Rythmik - 15"

b good.
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PSB is not listed as an exhibitor at Axpona 2015!!!

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PSB is not listed as an exhibitor at Axpona 2015!!!
unfortunately, they also arent listed for the Montreal Audio show here in Canada this weekend, disappointed.
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post #6022 of 6028 Old 03-23-2015, 02:46 PM
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unfortunately, they also arent listed for the Montreal Audio show here in Canada this weekend, disappointed.
Indeed. Was looking forward to checking out their latest gear.
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PSB is not listed as an exhibitor at Axpona 2015!!!
Saturday Audio Exchange will be there, but I don't know if they'll have any of their PSBs on display. I wonder if PSB's lack of an exhibit is due to SAE partnering with GoldenEar this year.

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Saturday Audio Exchange will be there, but I don't know if they'll have any of their PSBs on display. I wonder if PSB's lack of an exhibit is due to SAE partnering with GoldenEar this year.
Last year I dont think SAE had any golenear or PSB. I remember KEF and Vienna being displayed. Usually when NAD is around, and it is listed, PSB is the speaker that is paired with them. It sure would have been nice to see Paul and the new T3.
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Anybody have any more info on PSB's Atmos modules?
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post #6026 of 6028 Unread Yesterday, 09:22 AM
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Anybody have any more info on PSB's Atmos modules?

All I know is that they're in the plans, as per Paul Barton at the December event @ Saturday Audio. I have no idea what timing is or any details beyond that. Pity PSB isn't there or I'd ask them at AXPONA next month.


My guess is that we'll have to wait for CEDIA at the earliest for any news of any additions to the PSB speaker lines. Meanwhile I'm picking up a couple of pairs of Atlantic Technology 44-DAs. They won't fit on my Imagine T2s but I can put them on an adjacent stand. Not my first choice of what to do, but given the very slow rollout of Atmos releases, I'll take what I can get for DSU use.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
I have just taken apart my Image B5 and Imagine B for a comparison of build quality. (I've always wanted to do this anyway, so now was a good as time as any while the subject was up)


Tweeters look the same with the same part numbers. Build on the Imagine B is certainly a lot better. Cabinet is more braced and solid. Much more internal sound deadening material more thoughtfully placed. Crossovers are certainly different. The woofer driver and magnates and castings appear to be the same except for the cosmetic differences at the front.


First pic is Image B5 x-over. Then Imagine B x-over. 3rd pic, Imagine B driver is on the right.

That is interesting. I just picked up a pair of Alpha B1's for $140 off CL. Mint condition. I used to have a pair of Image B6's. I was shocked how good the Alpha B1's sound and couldn't remember the B6's sounding any better. I thought for sure the B1's were over-hyped but not all imo. The Image B6's certainly looked better. And maybe if I switched them back and forth I would notice a difference. I'm just going by memory. I wonder if the Alphas use same or different tweeter than the Image line.
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Originally Posted by vlad335 View Post
I bought a pair of Alpha B1's scratch and dent from Crutchfield for my computer setup. Been reading all the hype for years and never really paid attention but saw these marked down and thought WTH. Well... What a surprise! These $250 speakers sounded great. Running a Dayton DTA120a amp and a DIY 8" sub out of my soundcard.

However, I can't leave well enough alone so decided to upgrade some crossover parts. (Actually I have been doing this for years with just about every speaker I have owned.) Replaced the Electrolytic caps with Sonicaps and the resistor with a Lynx unit of the same values. ( Love Sonicaps in tweeter circuits) Added a couple pieces of No Rez damping I had here, reinstalled the included fiberglass and these speakers sound gorgeous! Did this yesterday and have been listening to everything I can get my hands on ever since.

I had a pair of B6's I would be all over those crossovers. I always leave the coils alone though as their resistance is usually figured into the design.

These alphas are the first PSB's I have heard and now definitely intrigued.
Would you mind telling me the values for the caps and resistors needed for the B1's? I just picked up a mint pair off cl for $140 and am happily surprised how good they sound. But they could be better no doubt. I've upgraded the crossovers in a few vintage Polks but never on newer speakers. Sounds like a fun experiment. Thanks.
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