PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 203 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6061 of 6083 Old 04-10-2015, 10:46 PM
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Question for the group:
I've been happy with my PSB Imagine S surrounds to date, and have used them in dual mono mode for a 7.1 configuration. However, after doing some spring cleaning at home, I'm going to reposition my sofa (MLP) closer to our Panasonic VT50 55" to get more a optimal 6'-8' viewing distance. Thus, I'm thinking of moving to physically separate side and rear surrounds, since I won't be forced to have a single pair of surrounds about 3' from our back wall, and can have better separation and placement angles as well as a good 6' to 9' behind me to work with. As my signature indicates, I've got the T2s and am upgrading my system for 3D audio, so I could either sell/trade-in the Imagine S or possibly keep them to use with Trinnov's processor once we have a (mostly) dedicated room to work with in the intermediate future.

Having said that, can someone remind me what the practical difference between the Imagine B and the Imagine XB might be if I were using them exclusively for side and rear surrounds? They have the same 1" tweeter and the same size woofer (5 1/4") AFAIK, although I understand that the woofer's construction is different.

I also thought about the Imagine X1T, but since I've got two HSU ULS-15 subs and cross my speakers at 80 Hz minimum, I don't think I really need a beefier woofer section for surrounds in my current 24x17 listening space (although a tower design would be less easy for my toddler to try to knock down LOL). The bookshelves with a stand or possibly mounted might also be easier than a tower to adjust to ear height with my T2s, which might be desirable for best results with Dolby Atmos. I also thought about the Imagine B Mini that AustinJerry's using for rear surrounds, but I'd prefer to stay in a similar power handling (up to 150 W) as I had with the S surrounds as a contingency, as my listening is maybe 40% movies.

Aside from that, one advantage of the XB would be that I could more easily mount Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers on top of them due to the flat top design, at least until I can do ceiling speakers down the road...otherwise I might go in a different direction.

Any thoughts?

Audio Gear: Sherwood R-972 (Trinnov Altitude - on order), NAD M27 amp
Display: Panasonic VT50, Lumagen Radiance Mini
Misc.: Oppo 103, Apple TV, JRiver ID NUC
PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds; HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

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post #6062 of 6083 Old 04-14-2015, 07:09 AM
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Interesting new sub from PSB: http://www.ecoustics.com/products/ps...150-subwoofer/








Features
  • Versatile mounting options from wall mount, flat on floor, to standing freely on its supplied feet
  • Allows subwoofer to be out in the open or concealed (i.e. under a couch)
  • Robust 100 watt amplifier with peak output of 200 watts
  • Custom designed 6 ½” woofer with polypropylene cone
  • Auto On/Standby
  • Stylish, curved, gloss black cabinet
  • Final voicing performed by Paul Barton at Canada’s famed NRC
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post #6063 of 6083 Old 04-15-2015, 10:30 AM
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That's a very expensive sub for its capabilities. I think asking $250 new would be a fair price but certainly NOT $500. As much as I love PSB speakers, I think they need to wake up and look around to companies such as Rythmik, SVS, PSA, and now Reaction Audio which all produce subs in the vicinity of $500 which will absolutely destroy it from a price/performance ratio.

Just looked at their website
Its rated down to 26Hz according PSB's publicized specs and PSB is fairly conservative in their specs but I'm still having problems with the specs. One needs either a large cabinet or high power amplification which this sub does not have. I will remain skeptical.
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Last edited by 3db; 04-15-2015 at 10:34 AM.
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post #6064 of 6083 Old 04-15-2015, 05:42 PM
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Hooking up some Image T6's. Specs say 8 nominal, 4 minimum. Yamaha receiver settings are 8 minimum and 4 minimum. Where should I set this on the Yamaha 4 or 8?
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post #6065 of 6083 Old 04-15-2015, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3db View Post
That's a very expensive sub for its capabilities. I think asking $250 new would be a fair price but certainly NOT $500. As much as I love PSB speakers, I think they need to wake up and look around to companies such as Rythmik, SVS, PSA, and now Reaction Audio which all produce subs in the vicinity of $500 which will absolutely destroy it from a price/performance ratio.

Just looked at their website
Its rated down to 26Hz according PSB's publicized specs and PSB is fairly conservative in their specs but I'm still having problems with the specs. One needs either a large cabinet or high power amplification which this sub does not have. I will remain skeptical.

So basically these are like DefTech Supercube 2000 or 4000, except that the specs are more reliable for -3 db , and you don't have the pretty wireless-based display. Still, I wonder if they'd come in handy for someone looking to use them as a sort of mid bass module, or as helping subs to fill in a hole in the 30-80 Hz range due to their ease of flexibility of placement, rather than serving as primary subs. However I think there's much better buys in the ID subwoofer market like SVS or HSU.
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Audio Gear: Sherwood R-972 (Trinnov Altitude - on order), NAD M27 amp
Display: Panasonic VT50, Lumagen Radiance Mini
Misc.: Oppo 103, Apple TV, JRiver ID NUC
PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds; HSU ULS-15 subs (2)
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post #6066 of 6083 Old 04-16-2015, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtvluvr View Post
Hooking up some Image T6's. Specs say 8 nominal, 4 minimum. Yamaha receiver settings are 8 minimum and 4 minimum. Where should I set this on the Yamaha 4 or 8?
hdtvluvr, leave it set at .

In short, what a "Low Z" (6Ω or 4Ω) setting generally does is engage a circuit that significantly limits the output voltage of the AVR. This is simply for the purposes of continuous high power heat dissipation testing by the electrical product certifiers. This mode effectively limits the current available to the speakers, but increases the risk of clipping the amp.

This Audioholics article explains the whole issue in detail.

Here’s the measurement page of the most recent Audioholics AVR review: Denon AVR-X5200W | Measurements. Note the commentary/recommendations about the impedance selector switch.
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post #6067 of 6083 Old 04-16-2015, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
So basically these are like DefTech Supercube 2000 or 4000, except that the specs are more reliable for -3 db , and you don't have the pretty wireless-based display. Still, I wonder if they'd come in handy for someone looking to use them as a sort of mid bass module, or as helping subs to fill in a hole in the 30-80 Hz range due to their ease of flexibility of placement, rather than serving as primary subs. However I think there's much better buys in the ID subwoofer market like SVS or HSU.
I'm betting it that the response would be typical PSB flat (a very good thing ) down to say about 40Hz. After that, it would fall off rapidly. I'm thinking its apartment friendly and would be better sold as mid woofer, not a sub woofer.
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post #6068 of 6083 Old 04-16-2015, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3db View Post
I'm betting it that the response would be typical PSB flat (a very good thing ) down to say about 40Hz. After that, it would fall off rapidly. I'm thinking its apartment friendly and would be better sold as mid woofer, not a sub woofer.

Now that HSU is dropping its MBM-1 mid-bass module, there might be a niche market for that. Of course, you'd need something like a MiniDSP 2x4 to be able to manage the combination of subwoofers and mid woofers, especially for working with crossover slopes and high/low pass filters, and making use of measurement tools like REW to know how they blend together and with mains. Not for the faint-hearted, but not knowing anything better a product like this might be a useful tool in the right hands, and/or with the space limited.

Audio Gear: Sherwood R-972 (Trinnov Altitude - on order), NAD M27 amp
Display: Panasonic VT50, Lumagen Radiance Mini
Misc.: Oppo 103, Apple TV, JRiver ID NUC
PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds; HSU ULS-15 subs (2)
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post #6069 of 6083 Old 04-16-2015, 04:38 PM
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If anybody Interested pairs Image T6 with C5 and S5 all together for $750 pm me.....
are these still available?
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post #6070 of 6083 Old 04-16-2015, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
hdtvluvr, leave it set at .

In short, what a "Low Z" (6Ω or 4Ω) setting generally does is engage a circuit that significantly limits the output voltage of the AVR. This is simply for the purposes of continuous high power heat dissipation testing by the electrical product certifiers. This mode effectively limits the current available to the speakers, but increases the risk of clipping the amp.

This Audioholics article explains the whole issue in detail.

Here’s the measurement page of the most recent Audioholics AVR review: Denon AVR-X5200W | Measurements. Note the commentary/recommendations about the impedance selector switch.


Thanks for the info and the links.
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post #6071 of 6083 Old 04-16-2015, 05:51 PM
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Sorry it's sold...
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post #6072 of 6083 Old 04-27-2015, 05:05 AM
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The PSB Imagine T3 was displayed at Axpona this year with the NAD M12/M22. Incredible right? Well, not so much. The system was placed a foot away from a large window with a half dozen other systems in the room. You would think this setup would be worthy of room to itself. Even with this atrocious setup the T3 still managed to sound good! In its own room this system would have easily been in the top 5 of the entire show. As it was, it was passed over and under appreciated. Take notice NAD/PSB/Saturday Audio...... Put this 20k system in a better than flea market setting next year!!!!

NAD M15 /NAD M25 / PSB STRATUS GOLD / PSB STRATUS 6C /DENON AVR 3300/CARVER TFM 45/35 - ANTHEM MCA3 / NAD T163
IMAGE DYNAMICS / INFINITY RS3 / POLK MONITOR 10/ALTEC 501 / INTEGRA 50.3/PARADIGM DSP 3400 / GOLDENEAR AON3 / HK AVI 200

An Observer of many philosophies, a slave to none.
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post #6073 of 6083 Old Today, 10:18 AM
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Synchrony One B and Imagine T3 Matching

Hello - I have been a happy Synchrony One B owner for a few years. I am ready to add a center channel and know that the Synchrony line has been discontinued. Do any of you have any experience matching the T3 Line with the Synchrony? Do we know if the tweeter is the same? It seems the aluminum front baffle is gone but given the 2k price point for the T3 center the quality has to be similar right?
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post #6074 of 6083 Old Today, 11:13 AM
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Psb imagine mini and center crossover freq

Question. What is the proper crossover freq on my psb imagine minis. And imagine center.

In a Dual svs pc 2000 setup.

On a yamaha rx 2030

I simply dont understand this. Even if ypao suggest Large, I always return to Small, but that x over is still a mystery. Just now my minis are at 100 hz, the center is at 80 hz

The back surr is Image b4. And surr speakers are Image b5. All these are at 60 hz.
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post #6075 of 6083 Old Today, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dryasanne View Post
Question. What is the proper crossover freq on my psb imagine minis. And imagine center.

In a Dual svs pc 2000 setup.

On a yamaha rx 2030

I simply dont understand this. Even if ypao suggest Large, I always return to Small, but that x over is still a mystery. Just now my minis are at 100 hz, the center is at 80 hz

The back surr is Image b4. And surr speakers are Image b5. All these are at 60 hz.
I use 80Hz for my Synchrony Ones, which are slightly larger than the Mini's.
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post #6076 of 6083 Old Today, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSmi22y View Post
Hello - I have been a happy Synchrony One B owner for a few years. I am ready to add a center channel and know that the Synchrony line has been discontinued. Do any of you have any experience matching the T3 Line with the Synchrony? Do we know if the tweeter is the same? It seems the aluminum front baffle is gone but given the 2k price point for the T3 center the quality has to be similar right?
Do you mean the Imagine C3 center? The T3 is the tower, the C3 is the center channel.

I would expect them to match fairly well (better still might be getting a third Synchrony One B and having all three front speakers identical).

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post #6077 of 6083 Old Today, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dryasanne View Post
Question. What is the proper crossover freq on my psb imagine minis. And imagine center.

In a Dual svs pc 2000 setup.

On a yamaha rx 2030

I simply dont understand this. Even if ypao suggest Large, I always return to Small, but that x over is still a mystery. Just now my minis are at 100 hz, the center is at 80 hz

The back surr is Image b4. And surr speakers are Image b5. All these are at 60 hz.
You have PSB Imagine Minis as front speakers? They're tiny, aren't they? They can't produce any deep bass at all, and even their mid and upper bass will have high THD. It would be best to cross them over at 100Hz, maybe even 150 or 200 Hz. But then you run into the issue of having the mid- and upper-bass coming from the sub, and that region of sound can be directional, so you'd need your subs placed right by the Imagine Minis.

As for the back surround and surrounds, they should be set at 80Hz, maybe 100Hz.

With front speakers that small, you're going to have to have compromises in mating them with subwoofers.

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post #6078 of 6083 Old Today, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post
You have PSB Imagine Minis as front speakers? They're tiny, aren't they? They can't produce any deep bass at all, and even their mid and upper bass will have high THD. It would be best to cross them over at 100Hz, maybe even 150 or 200 Hz. But then you run into the issue of having the mid- and upper-bass coming from the sub, and that region of sound can be directional, so you'd need your subs placed right by the Imagine Minis.

As for the back surround and surrounds, they should be set at 80Hz, maybe 100Hz.

With front speakers that small, you're going to have to have compromises in mating them with subwoofers.

Them minis are placed on top of the pc 2000's

Tried 80 hz tonight. Sounds much better than 100, in my ears.
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post #6079 of 6083 Old Today, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post
You have PSB Imagine Minis as front speakers? They're tiny, aren't they? They can't produce any deep bass at all, and even their mid and upper bass will have high THD. It would be best to cross them over at 100Hz, maybe even 150 or 200 Hz. But then you run into the issue of having the mid- and upper-bass coming from the sub, and that region of sound can be directional, so you'd need your subs placed right by the Imagine Minis.

As for the back surround and surrounds, they should be set at 80Hz, maybe 100Hz.

With front speakers that small, you're going to have to have compromises in mating them with subwoofers.
I have Imagine Mini's as rear surrounds. Audyssey measures the F3 of the Mini's such that the recommended crossover is 80Hz. I don't think the Mini's struggle with an 80Hz crossover, and certainly don't think they need 150Hz or 200Hz crossovers.
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post #6080 of 6083 Old Today, 03:34 PM
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Them minis are placed on top of the pc 2000's

Tried 80 hz tonight. Sounds much better than 100, in my ears.
Since they're right on top of the subs, you shouldn't have much problem with mid and upper bass being localizable. I'd set the crossover higher than 80, but do whatever you think sounds best. You're actually there listening, and I'm relying on theory.

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post #6081 of 6083 Old Today, 03:39 PM
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I have Imagine Mini's as rear surrounds. Audyssey measures the F3 of the Mini's such that the recommended crossover is 80Hz. I don't think the Mini's struggle with an 80Hz crossover, and certainly don't think they need 150Hz or 200Hz crossovers.
See their measurements in this link:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...r-measurements

Their bass output falls off a cliff from 90Hz down to about 60Hz.

Not only that, but also their THD is kinda high even up past 200Hz.

And finally, their linearity has some issues (dynamic compression) up to nearly 500Hz.

They're nice little speakers, but a speaker that small simply can't output even mid- and upper-bass cleanly at moderate or high levels.

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post #6082 of 6083 Old Today, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post
See their measurements in this link:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...r-measurements

Their bass output falls off a cliff from 90Hz down to about 60Hz.

Not only that, but also their THD is kinda high even up past 200Hz.

And finally, their linearity has some issues (dynamic compression) up to nearly 500Hz.

They're nice little speakers, but a speaker that small simply can't output even mid- and upper-bass cleanly at moderate or high levels.
I would never use them as my left and right speakers, but for rear surrounds, crossing them at 80 Hz has never caused any problems.
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post #6083 of 6083 Unread Today, 04:00 PM
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I would never use them as my left and right speakers, but for rear surrounds, crossing them at 80 Hz has never caused any problems.
Yeah, for rear surrounds I doubt you'd ever notice their shortcomings in the midbass and upper bass. You'd have to be playing them fairly loud AND be focused on them specifically in order to hear them struggle, I would think.

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