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post #6751 of 6776 Unread 03-21-2017, 08:07 AM
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Hey guys I have an all Synchrony system and am thinking of adding Atmos. I know some say it's not important to timbre match, but I do, so I'm sticking with PSB's. My question is, is it worth it to go with the top of the line CS650, or will the CS610 do the job. I see the 650's use a 1" titanium tweeter that looks similar to the ones in my Synchrony's.

Thoughts?
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post #6752 of 6776 Unread 03-22-2017, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaRomeoTango View Post
*raises hand* I'm one of those crazies. I have 7 x Imagine T's in the room so I could get the LCR matching. As expected the imaging when panning is perfection but I did have to split up a pair to get this configuration. Last I checked, Crutchfield allowed you to order single speakers online. I'm not sure if the order will ship that way though.
I'm not going so far in search of perfection, but I use Imagine Ts as wides and side surrounds in my 9.x.4 system, along with the T2 up front and the current Imagine C. I really like the phantom imaging between my main speakers and wides, and the seamless effect you get with DSU or Neural:X upmixing there.

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Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Rears, T2 Side Surrounds
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post #6753 of 6776 Unread 03-23-2017, 08:43 PM
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So PSB T2 owners... I'm looking to build a new front stage and the T2's are my top choice right now. I'm just curious what other speakers you folks demo'd and/or considered in the same league (towers) before deciding. I'm currently running Amphion Argon II's LRC and want something with a much lower end to run in Pure Direct on my RX3060 w/ Parasound A21 driving them. Also running a True Sub Junior. 15x15 room 1 side open with 3 foot knee wall. Looking around $3500 or so including a new center. Amphions will do the surround work and I'll be adding in-ceiling later. Mucho Gracias!
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post #6754 of 6776 Unread 04-02-2017, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TL5 View Post
Hey guys I have an all Synchrony system and am thinking of adding Atmos. I know some say it's not important to timbre match, but I do, so I'm sticking with PSB's. My question is, is it worth it to go with the top of the line CS650, or will the CS610 do the job. I see the 650's use a 1" titanium tweeter that looks similar to the ones in my Synchrony's.

Thoughts?
Bump....anyone?
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post #6755 of 6776 Unread 04-03-2017, 01:57 AM
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I am looking to upgrade the surround portion of my system for a more immersive sound. I am presently running the following in 7.1:


Emotiva MC-700
Emotiva XPA-2
Emotiva XPA-5
Oppo BDP-203
Samsung 8000 series 65" 4K panel
PSB Imagine T2 towers
PSB Imagine C center
PSB Imagine S Surrounds
PSB Subseries 300


Although they sound fine, I don't have ideal placement on the S surround speakers. I have them wired to work as separate speakers for side and back surround, but I can't seem to get them positioned just right so I hear both of the channels where they should be. I was looking at either selling off the Imagine S and buying two pair of Imagine Minis, or just keeping the Imagine S as the back (wired to use all drivers) and purchasing one pair of Imagine Minis to use as sides. I also considered selling off the Imagine S and buying two pairs of the PSB Imagine XB rather than the Minis, I'm not concerned as much about the aesthetics of the black surrounds; only concerned about timbre matching. Thoughts?


Thanks
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post #6756 of 6776 Unread 04-03-2017, 04:25 AM
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Most room shapes benefit more from individual direct firing speakers rather than the reflecting sound of that type of angled front baffle surround. As we move to Atmos & DTS/X object based channel assignments you're usually better off with ditching the Imagine S and getting four Imagine Mini or Imagine B. You could probably get away using the Imagine XB in those positions, it's harder to discern the timbre matching with surround, rear and ceiling speakers as it is with the front three.
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post #6757 of 6776 Unread 04-03-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Most room shapes benefit more from individual direct firing speakers rather than the reflecting sound of that type of angled front baffle surround. As we move to Atmos & DTS/X object based channel assignments you're usually better off with ditching the Imagine S and getting four Imagine Mini or Imagine B. You could probably get away using the Imagine XB in those positions, it's harder to discern the timbre matching with surround, rear and ceiling speakers as it is with the front three.
I wouldn't use the Imagine Minis as rears unless you have a small room with the speakers relatively closer to you (4-5 feet?) and/or listen at low volumes (90 db peaks work comfortably, as per the 2012 Stereophile review, but they can get stressed above that). They only go up to about 80 watts power handling, and I don't think they'd do well crossed anywhere below 100 Hz, and probably more like 120 Hz for many rooms. If it were me I'd do the Imagine XBs, since they're more capable and run at about $499/pair.

Having said this, I agree about the Imagine S now that we're in the 3D audio object-based world as the current standard. The S won't capture the separation between side and rears accurately in bipole mode, now that we care about even more the physical placement, and they might be too diffuse run as dipoles (two drivers opposite facing with one input signal). While you could repurpose them as a monopole by simply using one of the two driver sides and have them facing forward, which I did with my own Imagine S, if I were buying bookshelf surround speakers from PSB now I'd get the Imagine B or the XB.

In theory the Imagine B, which are about twice the price of the XB, are better constructed speakers with more robust bracing, yet they have the same power handling, same sized woofers and the same tweeter technology, so I'm not sure if the price premium is really worth it if you're using these bookshelves as sides or rears.

FWIW I'm replacing my Imagine XAs with probably Imagine XBs to have physical front and rear heights (the XAs work perfectly well as intended, but the elevation with virtual speakers doesn't get captured well when I use my processor's Trinnov remapping), so I'll be curious if anyone's using the XBs or the Bs as height speakers.
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Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Rears, T2 Side Surrounds
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post #6758 of 6776 Unread 04-03-2017, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Redoryx View Post
I do not see why your setup will not work.
Also, in the new place, you can play a bit with placement of the Imagine S. You can wire them up to make a 7.1 system.
Anyone have a recommendation on best place to put the S speakers for a dual monopole set up? seems like in the back is better? Though now there's all this talk of ditching surrounds because of atmos...sigh
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post #6759 of 6776 Unread 04-03-2017, 07:55 PM
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Anyone have a recommendation on best place to put the S speakers for a dual monopole set up? seems like in the back is better? Though now there's all this talk of ditching surrounds because of atmos...sigh
Not ditching surrounds, but using a direct-firiing speaker as a surround, which means the Imagine B or XB rather than an Imagine S if you have the option in the object-oriemted world of Atmos, where location matters .

You can do what I've done as an interim step by pointing the Imagine S sideways so that one of the two sets of drivers is facing out toward your listening position, with that driver in (single) mono mode as a side or (what I did) as a rear surround. But that's a waste of an opposite firing speaker, and you would probably need to put the S on a bookshelf stand to make it work. I'm ditching that approach for a different reason outside of this discussion....more later this week.

Alternatively, if you've the room and don't care about Atmos or DTS:X you could use the Imagine S as a dipole surround.

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post #6760 of 6776 Unread 04-04-2017, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Not ditching surrounds, but using a direct-firiing speaker as a surround, which means the Imagine B or XB rather than an Imagine S if you have the option in the object-oriemted world of Atmos, where location matters .

You can do what I've done as an interim step by pointing the Imagine S sideways so that one of the two sets of drivers is facing out toward your listening position, with that driver in (single) mono mode as a side or (what I did) as a rear surround. But that's a waste of an opposite firing speaker, and you would probably need to put the S on a bookshelf stand to make it work. I'm ditching that approach for a different reason outside of this discussion....more later this week.

Alternatively, if you've the room and don't care about Atmos or DTS:X you could use the Imagine S as a dipole surround.
Don't plan on having Atmos (upgrading receiver) any time soon, so for the time being exploring upgrading from 5.1 to 7.1 as i move to a new room (currently using the S in dipole). I know the imagine S can be set to dual monopole - just not sure where best placement is once it's wired? Alternatively, thinking of using the imagine S as bipole and getting imagine mini for sides (or vice versa?)

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post #6761 of 6776 Unread 04-05-2017, 11:12 AM
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Don't plan on having Atmos (upgrading receiver) any time soon, so for the time being exploring upgrading from 5.1 to 7.1 as i move to a new room (currently using the S in dipole). I know the imagine S can be set to dual monopole - just not sure where best placement is once it's wired? Alternatively, thinking of using the imagine S as bipole and getting imagine mini for sides (or vice versa?)
I read back a bit, and I see your new room will be 15x25 (is that 25' length?). I've had a rooms somewhat similar to yours in the past: a 23x17 multipurpose room a few years ago where I wound up having to have the sofa about 3' from the back wall. And due to room layout (windows on one side, and too short a wall on the other), I couldn't do both sides and rears, so I picked up the Imagine S and tried it in dipole and dual mono modes. I ultimately used the S in dual mono to get 7.1, and it "worked" in giving me separate imaging, but the sides and rear sounds were sometimes smeared due to being physically too close to one another. When I measured them with my old Sherwood R-972 Trinnov Optimizer, the sides and rears were electronically at about 120 and 130 degrees respectively, which is too close for meaningful separation. Unless you have no choice, I'd stay away from dual mono if I could.

Personally if your room physically supports it, I'd do the Imagine S as the side surrounds in dipole (both driver faces firing, one towards the front and the other towards the back of the room, but the jumper connecting both sets of binding posts) ahead of bipole (the same, but the jumper disconnected so that you'd be powering each driver face independently). I don't think bi-amping these passive speakers will gain you much. But dipole might help make the front/side and side/rear transitions more seamless in a 5.1/7.1 world.

And in a room this big, I'd get the Imagine XB over the Mini if you're watching budget, since the Mini has a smaller (4") woofer/midrange and the power handling will be considerably less than your other floor speakers. I think the Mini is more expensive than the XBs, but you're also paying for the cabinet.

The XB have the same size woofer (5 1/4) and an identical 1" tweeter to the Imagine B, which is/was a bigger sibling to the Mini. But since you're using the speaker as a rear or side, the more robust construction isn't going to matter as much as when they'd be upfront mains in a small room.
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post #6762 of 6776 Unread 04-05-2017, 01:22 PM
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I read back a bit, and I see your new room will be 15x25 (is that 25' length?). I've had a rooms somewhat similar to yours in the past: a 23x17 multipurpose room a few years ago where I wound up having to have the sofa about 3' from the back wall. And due to room layout (windows on one side, and too short a wall on the other), I couldn't do both sides and rears, so I picked up the Imagine S and tried it in dipole and dual mono modes. I ultimately used the S in dual mono to get 7.1, and it "worked" in giving me separate imaging, but the sides and rear sounds were sometimes smeared due to being physically too close to one another. When I measured them with my old Sherwood R-972 Trinnov Optimizer, the sides and rears were electronically at about 120 and 130 degrees respectively, which is too close for meaningful separation. Unless you have no choice, I'd stay away from dual mono if I could.

Personally if your room physically supports it, I'd do the Imagine S as the side surrounds in dipole (both driver faces firing, one towards the front and the other towards the back of the room, but the jumper connecting both sets of binding posts) ahead of bipole (the same, but the jumper disconnected so that you'd be powering each driver face independently). I don't think bi-amping these passive speakers will gain you much. But dipole might help make the front/side and side/rear transitions more seamless in a 5.1/7.1 world.

And in a room this big, I'd get the Imagine XB over the Mini if you're watching budget, since the Mini has a smaller (4") woofer/midrange and the power handling will be considerably less than your other floor speakers. I think the Mini is more expensive than the XBs, but you're also paying for the cabinet.

The XB have the same size woofer (5 1/4) and an identical 1" tweeter to the Imagine B, which is/was a bigger sibling to the Mini. But since you're using the speaker as a rear or side, the more robust construction isn't going to matter as much as when they'd be upfront mains in a small room.
Thanks! This all makes ton of sense and i think will be exactly what i do! Thanks for clarity on the dual monopole; seemed like a decent option but i have the space and set up to upgrade from 5.1 to 7.2 so i will do that. There's a pesky window in the back corner of the room so i'll have to push my seats up a bit to be 4' from the wall (12' from the screen) so that the dipoles are on the same plane but shouldn't be a problem.

Reached out to my AV dealer to set up appt and talk about projector + XBs.

Thanks again!
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post #6763 of 6776 Unread 04-18-2017, 01:50 PM
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I recently bought a new house, which is still being finished up, and I've been looking around for speakers to install for my whole home audio system. Right now, in my current living room, I have a 7.1.4 Atmos setup with Klipsch Reference Premier speakers. All of them are free standing.
In the new house, I won't be able to use my Klipsch speakers in the living room since it's an open floor plan, so I'm going to put them in a dedicated theater room upstairs. I've always enjoyed having my system setup in my living room since it's comfortable and more casual, not to mention social, compared to a dedicated theater. So, I've been considering the PSB in-ceiling speakers for my living room because I don't want wires running everywhere. I want to have a decent setup to enjoy watching movies, but because of the layout of the floor plan, an Atmos/DTS:X setup in the living room is out of the question. The PSB in-ceiling speakers seem like they would be able to produce a good sound, and I would be able to differentiate the separate channels despite the ceilings being 14' high.
When looking at the specifications of these speakers, I noticed that they were 6 ohm instead of 8 ohm, which I've always had.
Since I've never heard these speakers before, nor have I ever owned 6 ohm speakers, is there anything in particular that I would need to push these speakers to get the best sound quality I can from them? And, with 14' ceilings, would these speakers be able to produce enough of a directional sound to have a 7.1 setup or should I stick with a 5.1 setup? I'm afraid with 14' ceilings that the sound would get diffused so much before reaching the listening position that I won't even be able to differentiate between a 5.1 and a 7.1 setup.
If anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it. I need to buy speakers for the entire house, but I want 2 zones that I could use for watching movies and get the best sound as possible. In all the other rooms, I'm still trying to decide what kind of speakers to get. Every other room, besides the dedicated theater upstairs, will have a pair of speakers for a whole house audio system, but I don't think I need these PSB speakers in every room, only in the living room (I think they called in a great room) where I will be watching TV, movies, etc.

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post #6764 of 6776 Unread 04-18-2017, 02:28 PM
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I'm not going so far in search of perfection, but I use Imagine Ts as wides and side surrounds in my 9.x.4 system, along with the T2 up front and the current Imagine C. I really like the phantom imaging between my main speakers and wides, and the seamless effect you get with DSU or Neural:X upmixing there.
I've done an upgrade to top off this system....thanks to a speaker trade-in and an open box deal on a gently demo'd pair, I've upgraded my L/R fronts to be Imagine T3s. I've rotated one pair of my Imagine Ts to be rears, and now have my older T2s as side surrounds. I'll probably be doing the swap from my Imagine C in the short term to the used T2 in about a month to use as a center.

The payoff is that I'm getting a much wider soundstage and better presence of midrange voicing, acoustic guitars, and clarity of keyboard instruments than I'd gotten before. Call it a B+ vs. an A, but the difference in noticeable...enough that I've actually started going back to two-channel+sub listening for two-channel music as I've found that neither DSU or Neural:X add particularly much with the T3s in action (which may be subject to change once I have a three-way center in place). Movies are a different story, though...where the front to side panning is more cohesive now.

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Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Rears, T2 Side Surrounds
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post #6765 of 6776 Unread 04-29-2017, 10:17 AM
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I recently upgraded to PSB Imagine t speakers and will soon be moving to an Imagine c center channel speaker. I currently have PSB Image B5 speakers for surrounds on a 5.1 system powered by an Anthem MRX 520. I really enjoy the new Imagine t speakers and find the sound quality to be exceptional. Would it be worth it to switch to the Imagine b speakers for the surrounds, or move to the imagine xb for a closer match to my imagine series L/C/R speakers if needed?

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post #6766 of 6776 Unread 04-29-2017, 04:12 PM
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I have PSB X series and Atmos for the front, I'm about to get a new 11 Chanel Denon and want to add the rear Atmos speakers. My question is, instead of buying another set of the PSB Atmos speakers I really like the SVS evelutions Atmos speakers and want to get those so Is that a big deal not matching the same type of Atmos speaker (heights vs reflects) and brand?

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post #6767 of 6776 Unread 04-29-2017, 05:49 PM
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I recently upgraded to PSB Imagine t speakers and will soon be moving to an Imagine c center channel speaker. I currently have PSB Image B5 speakers for surrounds on a 5.1 system powered by an Anthem MRX 520. I really enjoy the new Imagine t speakers and find the sound quality to be exceptional. Would it be worth it to switch to the Imagine b speakers for the surrounds, or move to the imagine xb for a closer match to my imagine series L/C/R speakers if needed?
My cousin has the Imagine T and Imagine C for his front three. He recently upgraded the surrounds to Imagine S. Wow, what a huge improvement over the crappy Klipsch R14 that were there. His room is configured in a way that using the Imagine S in there native bi-pole mode works great. If your room is such that direct firing drivers work best, the Imagine B really are the ideal match. Of course it all depends upon what you use the system for. If it's purely movies, no need to spend for those. The XB would work OK. If you enjoy multi-channel music you might prefer the better quality Imagine B.

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post #6768 of 6776 Unread 05-01-2017, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
My cousin has the Imagine T and Imagine C for his front three. He recently upgraded the surrounds to Imagine S. Wow, what a huge improvement over the crappy Klipsch R14 that were there. His room is configured in a way that using the Imagine S in there native bi-pole mode works great. If your room is such that direct firing drivers work best, the Imagine B really are the ideal match. Of course it all depends upon what you use the system for. If it's purely movies, no need to spend for those. The XB would work OK. If you enjoy multi-channel music you might prefer the better quality Imagine B.
If you have the money for either, I'd do the Imagine B for SACD (LOL) or BluRay/DVD 5.1 music, and simply because the cabinet construction is better. However, in practice both the Imagine B and XB have the same size woofer and the same 1" titanium tweeter, so unless you crank the surrounds up to reference and need to worry about distortion due to room size and wattage, my POV is that if you cross the surround at 80 Hz it really isn't going to matter which way you go in a movie or upmixed music (DSU or Neural:X) system.

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Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Rears, T2 Side Surrounds
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post #6769 of 6776 Unread 05-01-2017, 05:39 PM
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If you have the money for either, I'd do the Imagine B for SACD (LOL) or BluRay/DVD 5.1 music, and simply because the cabinet construction is better. However, in practice both the Imagine B and XB have the same size woofer and the same 1" titanium tweeter, so unless you crank the surrounds up to reference and need ro worry about distortion due to room size and wattage, my POV is that if you cross the surround at 80 Hz it really isn't going to matter which way you go in a movie or upmixed music (DSU or Neural:X) system.
Thanks Ken & sdrucker. The local dealer that I am working with is giving me a pretty good price on the Imagine Bs. He is also helping me sell off my Image speakers to trade up to the imagine line. The imagine ts are a much better fit for my media room (about 240 sq ft, with an 8 ft ceiling) and integrate well with my MRX 520. Looking forward to trying out the imagine C soon.
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post #6770 of 6776 Unread 05-06-2017, 11:37 AM
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As a happy owner of Imagine Bs (in a 2.0 setup), I can heartily recommend them if they fit your budget.
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post #6771 of 6776 Unread Yesterday, 08:32 AM
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As a happy owner of Imagine Bs (in a 2.0 setup), I can heartily recommend them if they fit your budget.
Picking up the Imagine B & C speakers this coming weekend. The Imagine B's should arrive early this week at my dealer. Question on the port plug on the Imagine C speaker.....should I leave it out? Anthem Room Correction can help if there are any peaks in the lower frequencies anyways. My existing image C5 actually has a pretty steep drop in the 100-300Hz region that ARC corrected. Wondering if anyone on this forum had any experience using the port plug for the center channel.
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post #6772 of 6776 Unread Yesterday, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speaker Robert View Post
Picking up the Imagine B & C speakers this coming weekend. The Imagine B's should arrive early this week at my dealer. Question on the port plug on the Imagine C speaker.....should I leave it out? Anthem Room Correction can help if there are any peaks in the lower frequencies anyways. My existing image C5 actually has a pretty steep drop in the 100-300Hz region that ARC corrected. Wondering if anyone on this forum had any experience using the port plug for the center channel.
I would run Anthem without then with the plug, and compare the measurement graphs you see with ARC in that frequency range. It's probably a SBIR effect from speaker placement, but the plug may help a little.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 16/24, NAD M27 and Wyred4Sound MMC-7 amps
Video (early May): JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro TBD
Misc.: Oppo 103, Oppo 203 UHD player, JRiver
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Rears, T2 Side Surrounds
PSB Imagine XB Speakers (4), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 9.4.4
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post #6773 of 6776 Unread Yesterday, 03:20 PM
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I'm thinking of getting four of the CS610's to use as height channels in my Synchrony system. Anyone using these, or the CS650's?
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post #6774 of 6776 Unread Yesterday, 04:47 PM
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I'm thinking of getting four of the CS610's to use as height channels in my Synchrony system. Anyone using these, or the CS650's?
I'm swapping out the Imagine XAs I have for the CS1000. They actually are useful for easy horizontal and vertical placement adjustments with the C ceiling mount. Technically they're "outdoor" speakers, but the reviews I read suggested they work well in a den or indoor setting. They should be fine for Atmos presence channels.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 16/24, NAD M27 and Wyred4Sound MMC-7 amps
Video (early May): JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro TBD
Misc.: Oppo 103, Oppo 203 UHD player, JRiver
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Rears, T2 Side Surrounds
PSB Imagine XB Speakers (4), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 9.4.4
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post #6775 of 6776 Unread Yesterday, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I'm swapping out the Imagine XAs I have for the CS1000. They actually are useful for easy horizontal and vertical placement adjustments with the C ceiling mount. Technically they're "outdoor" speakers, but the reviews I read suggested they work well in a den or indoor setting. They should be fine for Atmos presence channels.
I'm actually thinking about using the smaller CS500 - but I'm a little concerned they will hang down a bit much from my 8 foot ceiling.
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post #6776 of 6776 Unread Today, 03:55 PM
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If I ever move to an ATMOS/DTS:X setup, the CS series will be my first choice (price and convenience are a nice bonus to the great sound). However, with kids headed in the direction of needing college tuition in a couple of years--it may take a while. I'm glad I don't "need" any gear at the moment.
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