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post #6811 of 6831 Old 08-12-2017, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
You can use ANY of those connections. The black plastic plugs can be removed, and they're not there for anything else other than to be CE compliant (leaving no empty socket with voltage, no matter how low.)

The S speakers should be supplied with spade ended jumpers so you can remove the solid jumpers and configure them as mono-pole, bi-pole or di-pole.
Thanks for the fast reply. That is really helpful. Given that answer, I may move my angled spade GLS Audio connectors to my surrounds and have nicer cables made up for my mains (Synchrony One Towers), maybe with Blue Jean Cable Canare 4S11 4-conductor as well given I am bi-amping the towers.

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post #6812 of 6831 Old 08-22-2017, 02:23 AM
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Hey anyone here use psbsub500? How is the performance i have velodyne dd15 before psb close to dd15 any idea??
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post #6813 of 6831 Old 08-22-2017, 05:26 AM
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As much as I love PSB, you can find better subs.
SVS, PSA, Rythmik, HSU etc.
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post #6814 of 6831 Old 08-22-2017, 05:28 AM
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Has anyone used the in ceiling PSB speakers?
I am installing ATMOS and am looking for speakers that will go with the Imagines. (not the X)
The XA Atmos speakers are a no go.
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post #6815 of 6831 Old 08-22-2017, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Redoryx View Post
Has anyone used the in ceiling PSB speakers?
I am installing ATMOS and am looking for speakers that will go with the Imagines. (not the X)
The XA Atmos speakers are a no go.
I've got older 6.5" coaxial PSB CW60R's. Perfectly fine for surround duty with my Images, and a lot of my listening is multi-channel music.

The current crop of CS speakers look even better with the same titanium dome tweeter as the Imagine on a small waveguide. They're a no brainer I'd say.
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post #6816 of 6831 Old 08-23-2017, 04:50 PM
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I"m looking at buying a pair of X2T's and the Imagine XC center. This will be used 90% HT/TV and 10% music. Room size is 18 x 28 (with 22 ft vaulted ceilings) - very wide open room. My concern is with the center channel. Will it be big enough for my room size?
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post #6817 of 6831 Old 08-23-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Frisco John View Post
I"m looking at buying a pair of X2T's and the Imagine XC center. This will be used 90% HT/TV and 10% music. Room size is 18 x 28 (with 22 ft vaulted ceilings) - very wide open room. My concern is with the center channel. Will it be big enough for my room size?
Eek, that room is large!

Actually, if it were me, I'd do a matching X2T as a vertical center channel speaker to provide identical speakers up front, and minimize off-axis response issues and comb filtering. But you'd need a AT screen/projector setup to make that work.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Misc.: Oppo 103, Oppo 203 UHD player, JRiver
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 11.4.6
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post #6818 of 6831 Old 08-23-2017, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Eek, that room is large!

Actually, if it were me, I'd do a matching X2T as a vertical center channel speaker to provide identical speakers up front, and minimize off-axis response issues and comb filtering. But you'd need a AT screen/projector setup to make that work.
There is no way I could do a X2T as the center (the wife would kill me). Thoughts on if the center will be to small?
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post #6819 of 6831 Old 08-23-2017, 05:39 PM
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There is no way I could do a X2T as the center (the wife would kill me). Thoughts on if the center will be to small?
My reaction was to say "yes", but how far from the front speakers would you sit in that room? And do you have an idea about how loud in db you listen?

That matters because you can estimate if the XCs have adequate amp handling for your needs with something like this, based on distance, db, and the speaker sensitivity (88 db):
http://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/c...power_required

Figure maybe 10-15 db above your average listening to be consevative for peaks, especially if you don't have a sub.

There's the Imagine C, but it's better suited to the T2 based on the same woofer tech.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Misc.: Oppo 103, Oppo 203 UHD player, JRiver
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 11.4.6

Last edited by sdrucker; 08-23-2017 at 05:53 PM.
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post #6820 of 6831 Old 08-23-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
My reaction was to say "yes", but how far from the front speakers would you sit in that room? And do you have an idea about how loud in db you listen?

Right now we sit about 15 feet from front speakers. I haven't found anyone close to me that stocks these for me to listen to at this point.
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post #6821 of 6831 Old 08-23-2017, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Frisco John View Post
Right now we sit about 15 feet from front speakers. I haven't found anyone close to me that stocks these for me to listen to at this point.
That works out to about 5 meters on the Crown Audio calculator. Assuming 90 db peaks, which is 15 db above Audyssey/medium room reference of 75 db, you should be OK as long as your amps can produce about 80W/channel with multiple channels driven.

OTOH, if you crank the sound to extreme 105 db peaks, you would want to rethink this...

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Misc.: Oppo 103, Oppo 203 UHD player, JRiver
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 11.4.6
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post #6822 of 6831 Old 08-24-2017, 05:42 PM
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Where is the best place to buy the X2T and center? Any good deals out there?
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post #6823 of 6831 Old 08-24-2017, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Frisco John View Post
Where is the best place to buy the X2T and center? Any good deals out there?
Crutchfield, Audio Advisor, and Saturday Audio Exchange are reputable online options. I think you can check the PSB site for local dealers as well.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Misc.: Oppo 103, Oppo 203 UHD player, JRiver
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 11.4.6
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post #6824 of 6831 Old 08-25-2017, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Eek, that room is large!

Actually, if it were me, I'd do a matching X2T as a vertical center channel speaker to provide identical speakers up front, and minimize off-axis response issues and comb filtering. But you'd need a AT screen/projector setup to make that work.




I was looking at the dimensions again for the center channel vs. X1T. Could I do X2T towers with a X1T center? Would that match correctly? Are there any issues turning the X1T on it's side? I would have to place my TV on top of the X1T as well. Would that have more output than the XC center? In other words, will it have that much more to make it worth my while.


I still have to validate that the wife will allow this.
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post #6825 of 6831 Old 08-25-2017, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Frisco John View Post
I was looking at the dimensions again for the center channel vs. X1T. Could I do X2T towers with a X1T center? Would that match correctly? Are there any issues turning the X1T on it's side? I would have to place my TV on top of the X1T as well. Would that have more output than the XC center? In other words, will it have that much more to make it worth my while.

I still have to validate that the wife will allow this.
It would (200W vs. 150W), but the disadvantages of that approach outweigh the benefit.

I wouldn't go that route, because if you turned the X1T sideways to be a horizontal speaker (assumedly resting on the floor or a shelf that could support a 38 lb speaker), the tweeter of the speaker would be off-axis relative to MLP, which ideally would be centered at the midpoint between the left and right speakers. The tower speakers have the tweeter toward the top of the speaker, rather in the center as with a more traditional MTM design like the Imagine XC or C, and that's going to compromise your sound.

Beyond that, you'd have the issue of where the speaker would be in space vertically relative to the mains. Being a tower, placing it on the floor sideways rather than having it standing up is going to throw off your sound for HT, that is where the dialog will be coming form will appear to be significantly underneath the imaging from your mains. That's true with horizontal speakers in general, but it's even worse if the speaker's laying horizontally on the floor.

Given those choices, I'd do the Imagine XC with the X2Ts as the best match, if you can't do identical L/C/R vertical speakers. One other option for you, possibly, would be to use the Imagine XB as a vertical speaker IF you could have it rest below your TV while being placed vertically. Same power handling as the XC, but you'd avoid the off-axis issue with the tweeter at higher frequencies, where it matters more than for lower frequencies.

On a different note, do you have a subwoofer? That's going to ease the burden you put on the speakers, as you can hand off < 80 Hz or so bass (dedicated LFE as well as redirected bass with bass management) to the sub or subs.

Tell us more - what AVR or separates are you running?

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Misc.: Oppo 103, Oppo 203 UHD player, JRiver
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 11.4.6

Last edited by sdrucker; 08-25-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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post #6826 of 6831 Old 08-25-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
It would (200W vs. 150W), but the disadvantages of that approach outweigh the benefit.

I wouldn't go that route, because if you turned the X1T sideways to be a horizontal speaker (assumedly resting on the floor or a shelf that could support a 38 lb speaker), the tweeter of the speaker would be off-axis relative to MLP, which ideally would be centered at the midpoint between the left and right speakers. The tower speakers have the tweeter toward the top of the speaker, rather in the center as with a more traditional MTM design like the Imagine XC or C, and that's going to compromise your sound.

Beyond that, you'd have the issue of where the speaker would be in space vertically relative to the mains. Being a tower, placing it on the floor sideways rather than having it standing up is going to throw off your sound for HT, that is where the dialog will be coming form will appear to be significantly underneath the imaging from your mains. That's true with horizontal speakers in general, but it's even worse if the speaker's laying horizontally on the floor.

Given those choices, I'd do the Imagine XC with the X2Ts as the best match, if you can't do identical L/C/R vertical speakers. One other option for you, possibly, would be to use the Imagine XB as a vertical speaker IF you could have it rest below your TV while being placed vertically. Same power handling as the XC, but you'd avoid the off-axis issue with the tweeter at higher frequencies, where it matters more than for lower frequencies.

On a different note, do you have a subwoofer? That's going to ease the burden you put on the speakers, as you can hand off < 80 Hz or so bass (dedicated LFE as well as redirected bass with bass management) to the sub or subs.

Tell us more - what AVR or separates are you running?

AVR - probably will get either the Denon 3300 or 4300. I will be getting a sub as well. Haven't decided which one yet either. Looking at HSU, SVS, or Rythmik. I'm open to any other suggestion as well. Need to keep the sub under $800.
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post #6827 of 6831 Old 08-31-2017, 02:40 PM
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Has anyone used the in ceiling PSB speakers?
I am installing ATMOS and am looking for speakers that will go with the Imagines. (not the X)
The XA Atmos speakers are a no go.
did you buy any yet? Im hoping to purchase the CS610 model soon , but it could be awhile before i actually set them up.
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post #6828 of 6831 Old 08-31-2017, 03:53 PM
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No purchase yet,
Only in the planning stage.
This will most likely be done during the spring or summer next year
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post #6829 of 6831 Old 08-31-2017, 06:02 PM
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did you buy any yet? Im hoping to purchase the CS610 model soon , but it could be awhile before i actually set them up.
I'm thinking of getting either the 650's or 610's for Atmos. The tweeters on the 650's seem to be a closer match to the ones in my Synchronys. Does it matter for Atmos use?
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post #6830 of 6831 Old 08-31-2017, 06:23 PM
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I'm thinking of getting either the 650's or 610's for Atmos. The tweeters on the 650's seem to be a closer match to the ones in my Synchronys. Does it matter for Atmos use?
this is the question ive been asking myself for awhile, for me, its a good 400$+ CDN more for the pair, and from what I see the the only difference is the tweeter, woofer looks identical.
thats a lot for just the tweeter. Ill have to go to 2-3 stores and see what the difference really is.
Im thinking, the only thing coming out should be surround effects, rain, helicopter, etc, is the tweeter that important? im thinking no, but if anyone else can chime in that would be great,

Im going to start with 7.1.2 for now, as I would need another amp to go to 7.1.4

Might post this in the atmos thread and see if there is any input.

Last edited by skads_187; 08-31-2017 at 06:39 PM.
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post #6831 of 6831 Old 08-31-2017, 07:21 PM
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this is the question ive been asking myself for awhile, for me, its a good 400$+ CDN more for the pair, and from what I see the the only difference is the tweeter, woofer looks identical.
thats a lot for just the tweeter. Ill have to go to 2-3 stores and see what the difference really is.
Im thinking, the only thing coming out should be surround effects, rain, helicopter, etc, is the tweeter that important? im thinking no, but if anyone else can chime in that would be great,

Im going to start with 7.1.2 for now, as I would need another amp to go to 7.1.4

Might post this in the atmos thread and see if there is any input.
If you're really worried, you can change all the tweeters out for a replacement fabric-dome replacement tweeter. I got some for about $18 a pair for my PSB B15/S50 speakers (both use the same drivers) when I could not locate enough (3 or more) aluminum models to repair 3 failed tweeters (I thought only two had failed on one speaker, but testing showed one of the S50 (similar to current Imagine S) had only one working tweeter also. I did find two alumnium ones and took one out of my rear center speaker to repair the side surrounds and then put the fabric dome in the less important rear center surround. Once I ran YPAO, I couldn't hear any obvious differences offhand in the pink noise signal from the fabric dome rear surround and given its relatively limited use, I'm not too worried about it. I was concerned about potentially buying the X2T for fuller range L/R speakers and how well it would match the B15 center (seeing as the newer PSBs switched to Titanium tweeters from aluminum and added clay to the woofers, creating a substantial material difference, but it's hard to say how much sound difference it would have with the same diameter and the same +/- 1.5dB rating of frequency response rating over most of the range (1.5dB is a pretty small difference in either direction even if they are at different frequencies with a maximum of 3dB difference coming out of the speaker at any given frequency within that range. A more typical +/- 3dB would give a much more significant up to 6dB swing total which could definitely sound very different as most speakers are at that rating and DO sound very different from one another). I assume similar driver size and cabinet size would help as well in PSB's case between many newer models and their older counterparts along with similar internal designs (more evolutionary than revolutionary), but then without a direct comparison, it's hard to be sure how a newer model compares.
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