PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by golffnutt View Post

Who has the best PSB prices? Please give me some addresses and names. PM will be OK. Thank you.

Can anyone help me out? Thank you.

Thank you.

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post #992 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PR Audio View Post

Hey, not a bad thing. Just to "experiment" I turned off my C40, and ran a 4.1, there was not much difference. Actually, when watching TV most of the time I am watching programs in 2.1, as I keep my receiver in "auto", so most programs are stereo, so it plays in stereo; never missed the center. The T45's image so well that at the beginning I found myself walking to the center to see if it was playing sounds, it wasn't; I could have sworn it was working.

Hey, you ought to be posting about this in my 4.1 thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1011945

Just out of curiosity, what does your 5.1 speaker setup consist of?

And I'd like to second the request for where to get a great deal on PSB's.

Scott R
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I'd much rather watch a great movie in B&W at 240 lines of resolution than a lousy movie in 1080p with lossless audio.
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post #993 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golffnutt View Post

Who has the best PSB prices? Please give me some addresses and names. Thank you.

To answer your question (and mine), there's a post on page 30 (here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...657301&page=30) with links to a few online dealers. One of these, if you click around, will even show prices.

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post #994 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 03:52 PM
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Scratch that. I see that that online dealer now has a message on their site stating that they were asked to remove the prices they had listed and you now need to email them. Ah well. I can tell you that their prices when I checked them over a week ago looked quite good (at least 20% off MSRP IIRC).

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post #995 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 04:06 PM
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Has anyone here been able to compare the SVS 25-31 to the PSB 6i? I've been wondering if I should make the switch....the SVS hits hard for movies but I feel that it lacks for music. I've heard the PSB subsonic i and I was really impressed at how much bass the little box put out.
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post #996 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golffnutt View Post

Can anyone help me out? Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srauly View Post

Hey, you ought to be posting about this in my 4.1 thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1011945

Just out of curiosity, what does your 5.1 speaker setup consist of?

And I'd like to second the request for where to get a great deal on PSB's.

My setup is PSB T45/C40/LR1, originally had B25 as rear, but now they are the mains on a 2 channel music only system in another part of the house.

Best deal on PSB I have seen so far is Saturday Audio, and from DMC-Electronics. Though DMC offer good price on speakers with cosmetic defects only. Saturday Audio offers great price on new PSB's. Both are authorized dealers.
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post #997 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by xericmx View Post

My order for the T45's and C40 came today. I also got some 10g wires from blue jeans and everything is connected. I ran a quick calibration using my Radio Shack meter to blend them with the SVS sub. One thing I noticed when playing music is that I can't tell that the sub is on. When I tell my Marantz SR4001 that I don't have a sub, the sound seems to be the same as when I tell it that there is a sub. Is there another setting that I am missing or are the t45's just that good! The sound is very clean and clear. The bass is smooth and accurate but does not hit very low....I think that's the way it's supposed to be right? I guess I've gotten used to hearing big boomy bass like in clubs. Does anyone know of a setting on the Marantz receiver that I may be missing? I just want to make sure that the current settings are what's right.

Thanks

I have mine connected to an SR-5001, and had never had any problems with turning on/off the sub. Double check your sub connections to the receiver, also check what is your X-Over set at.

Yes, the T45 is that good...Not lots of boom, just quality appropriate bass for most music; the sub will blend well with movies and bass demanding music (ie. pipe organ).
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post #998 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Freedom, especially for those poor millions, is in everyone's interest. Besides, I was just retorting to a stupid sarcastic comment with more stupid sarcasm.

Do appreciate your patriotism, and respect whatever you think about the war. BTW, 69 soldiers from Puerto Rico killed so far in Iraq; the largest amount of dead soldiers from any State or US Territory. I can tell you my point of view, but this is not the place; you want to know it PM.

Anyways, let's keep politics out of here. This the PSB thread in an audio forum. Next thing we know we have the PSB in Iraq Forum, we don't need that.
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post #999 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 08:57 PM
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Hey PR, Have you compared the T45 to the B15/B25/T55/T65? Can you give me your impressions? Thank you.
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post #1000 of 5723 Old 04-08-2008, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xericmx View Post

My order for the T45's and C40 came today. I also got some 10g wires from blue jeans and everything is connected. I ran a quick calibration using my Radio Shack meter to blend them with the SVS sub. One thing I noticed when playing music is that I can't tell that the sub is on. When I tell my Marantz SR4001 that I don't have a sub, the sound seems to be the same as when I tell it that there is a sub. Is there another setting that I am missing or are the t45's just that good! The sound is very clean and clear. The bass is smooth and accurate but does not hit very low....I think that's the way it's supposed to be right? I guess I've gotten used to hearing big boomy bass like in clubs. Does anyone know of a setting on the Marantz receiver that I may be missing? I just want to make sure that the current settings are what's right.

Thanks

This is interesting... Now that you mention it, I guess I'm hearing the same thing... As I said before I have T45's, C40, B15's and an eD A3-300 sub that when I'm watching movies makes the windows shake. So I know the potential for bass is there. But when I listen to music it doesn't hit low and I can't really tell my sub is working at all.

What I think the "issue" is, is that we're use to listening to music in our cars and probably the settings in the car way, way over-emphasize bass so it's "boomin'" in the car. I don't know about you but my car radio only has the "treble" and "bass" settings and I have them turned up to almost max. As opposed to home, where it's playing "calibrated / evenly" when we play it on a calibrated setup.

So I'm guessing that how it sounds on the home / calibrated setup is how it's "suppose" to sound? It's just not what we're use to?

What do you guys think? This might be worth posting outside of the PSB thread, because most likely it's not specific to PSB speakers, since we're both using non-PSB subs...
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post #1001 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 05:06 AM
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I did a little more testing and your right. The "issue" is that we are used to booming bass that more than likely is not accurate. The T45's fooled me into thinking my sub was on when it wasn't. The bass was super tight and accurate but at the same time vibrating through the floors. All this with no sub. The thing is for most music you don't need bass that hit's that low...I guess because those are not the notes. I recalibrated the sub a little hotter and bass comes out more now durring music. It just depends on your taste in music and the sub your using.

To Huttizo,
I've heard the B15 and B25 side by side, and there was no contest. The B25's sounded much better. The T45's however take it to another level. I've never heard a tower speaker that sounded as good as the T45's. As others have mentioned here on this forum, I was also fooled into thinking my C40 was on when it wasn't. They are truly remarkable speakers. I was tempted into getting the T55's or 65's too, but the dealer told me that it's not really worth the extra $ for a few Hz available. If your planning on joining the PSB club the T45's and C40 combo is a great place to start!
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post #1002 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaveE View Post

What do you guys think? This might be worth posting outside of the PSB thread, because most likely it's not specific to PSB speakers, since we're both using non-PSB subs...

There are a dozen threads around talking about room and equipment calibration but I can't recommend any specific one. Part of the issue is you've also got to take the room into consideration along with sub placement as well as the music and the equipment. It makes for a lot of variables.

One thing that might help to get a better handle on what is going on is to use Room EQ Wizard (REW) (you can Google it). However, you'll need a PC and a calibrated mike (the Rat Schack will do) hooked up to your system to make it work.
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post #1003 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 07:46 AM
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scientist -

i don't think we have any problems with room eq... If there were problems with room eq we'd be having lulls and such and weak bass during movies. Bass during movies seems to be dead on.

Like I said before I think it's just different then what we're use to, with listening to music mostly in the car. The car probably has bass overly-boosted between 80Hz - 200Hz. On our home theaters it's not boosted (which is fine - it's as it's intended). Most of the music we listen to probably doesn't go much below 80Hz and therefore doesn't use the subwoofer at home.

So I think we're at the point where it's not a problem - it's just different from what we're use to in the car... Our home setups are probably eq'ed fairly flat (the PSB's are known to be flat which is a good thing). I would guess that the car is not at all flat and is way boosted in the low-mid / bass range.
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post #1004 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BigDaveE View Post

i don't think we have any problems with room eq... If there were problems with room eq we'd be having lulls and such and weak bass during movies. Bass during movies seems to be dead on.

Given that you can get movies with lot's of bass I suspect what you're really saying is that you've can hear more bass during movies. However, that doesn't mean it's accurate. Audyessy (and similar) will do good things, but they are going to miss some peaks and nulls.

Another question is whether your system has been (automatically) set up for movies or for music and if it's the former how do you know it's flat? Eg. the Denon 3808 has (among other things) an Audyessy setting for movies and one for "flat", you are encouraged to use the "flat" setting for music. Even if you do that you still don't really know what your room response and resultant calibration looks like unless you measure it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaveE View Post

So I think we're at the point where it's not a problem - it's just different from what we're use to in the car... Our home setups are probably eq'ed fairly flat (the PSB's are known to be flat which is a good thing). I would guess that the car is not at all flat and is way boosted in the low-mid / bass range.

Among other things a car can be pressurized in the bass range, that gives it a way different bass response than most people will ever get at home, so yeah, you'll be hearing different things. That doesn't necessarily mean the car is set up wrong either, though it's a definite possibility!

I'm not suggesting you have any major problem, just that if you really want to know what's going on in your setup and the resultant calibration there is a (relatively painless) way to do so. Put it this way, unless you've extensively treated the room you _do_ have problems, but with your current set up they've been minimized to be a good compromise. Perhaps so much so that you're now hearing a better setup than you've ever had before. Doesn't mean it can't get better!
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post #1005 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by xericmx View Post

One thing I noticed when playing music is that I can't tell that the sub is on. When I tell my Marantz SR4001 that I don't have a sub, the sound seems to be the same as when I tell it that there is a sub. Is there another setting that I am missing or are the t45's just that good! The sound is very clean and clear. The bass is smooth and accurate but does not hit very low....I think that's the way it's supposed to be right? I guess I've gotten used to hearing big boomy bass like in clubs. Does anyone know of a setting on the Marantz receiver that I may be missing? I just want to make sure that the current settings are what's right.

For most music, a speaker with fairly good bass response will go as low as is necessary, but when you really crank it up you may reach the limits of how loud it can go. One test that I use after calibrating my sub is to play some music with lots of bass, but without really low bass, and then I switch back and forth between pure direct mode where just the front speakers are playing, and 2.1 stereo where the sub is handling the low end. If it's calibrated right, it should sound the same. Now if you play certain types of music with true low bass, you will likely hear a difference because your sub can go lower.
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post #1006 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 08:41 AM
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Before I increased the db level on the sub, I did that test and I could not tell the difference in sound. If the sub was on or off the sound was the same....during music the sub never even put out a note...the T45's did it all. I'm not saying it sounded bad at all. I just like the added bass the sub can give so I've made a few changes and like the results I got.

I have a new appreciation for PSB after getting the T45's. The B25's were very good when I heard them, but I'm very happy I went with the T45's. I just need to get surrounds now.
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post #1007 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 03:45 PM
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Hey everyone, I'm looking for some advice on a home theater system.

I'm a college sophomore, looking for a home theater system for my next year (a current roommate provided the stereo that we use now, and we're not living together again).

I am familiar with PSB since my dad and other members of my extended family collectively own seven pairs of PSB speakers, spanning several models. In fact, here's the list:

Predecessors to current PSB models:
  • Image B15
  • Image B25
  • Image T45

Current models:
  • Image B25 (two pairs)
  • Image T55
  • Image C60

Unfortunately, these are spread out, and I'm not close enough to home to audition all of these speakers.

I'm looking at the Alpha and Image lines, due to my somewhat limited budget. However, I do want to buy good components that I'll be satisfied with for a long time. I've been looking at suggested home theater setups at these two links on the PSB site:

**Okay, never mind -- I'm new here, so I can't post URLs yet. Anyway, the links are readily available on the PSB site.


A little about my current set-up: one roommate is providing a 50" Phillips Plasma display. Also, just today, I ordered a Cambridge Audio Azur 540R v2 from Audio Advisor (they're on close-out for $400... pretty great price).

I'd like input on the differences between the Alpha and Image suggested home theater systems. It's probably about a 40/60 split between music and movies, but music is very important and I need speakers that both sound good and can go loud enough to fill a room during a party. The living room in my apartment is fairly large, probably 25x15 feet with a tall (9' ??) ceiling. Also, there is an adjoining dining room, so ideally the music could fill both spaces.

Well, thanks everyone. Sorry this kind of turned into an essay. I appreciate any input!


David
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post #1008 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Freedom, especially for those poor millions, is in everyone's interest. Besides, I was just retorting to a stupid sarcastic comment with more stupid sarcasm.

Your comment was literally an oxymoron. You said of Onkyo recievers "They're wimpy. But sufficient for most speakers."

The fact is most of us have "most speakers" and according to you the Onkyo's are adequate for these situations. So how are they wimpy?

Your shot at the Canadian military was completely un-necessary and very clearly un-informed. Why am I not surprised?
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post #1009 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 04:24 PM
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You should take some English classes so you can understand what an actual oxymoron is. I said 'wimpy', not useless. The fact that is only "sufficient" and wouldn't be suitable for at least some harder to drive speakers is grounds for being described as 'wimpy', as is Onkyo's official position that they shouldn't be used with anything less than 6 ohms. Someone, for instance, can be a poor writer or lack in-depth understanding of words and language and yet still communicate sufficiently to get the point across, offensively at times, apparently.

John
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post #1010 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrtyFlyFrWhteGuy View Post

I'd like input on the differences between the Alpha and Image suggested home theater systems. It's probably about a 40/60 split between music and movies, but music is very important and I need speakers that both sound good and can go loud enough to fill a room during a party. The living room in my apartment is fairly large, probably 25x15 feet with a tall (9' ??) ceiling. Also, there is an adjoining dining room, so ideally the music could fill both spaces.

I own Images right now (saving for Synchrony's) and my Dad has the Alpha's. I think the Alpha's are kick a** speakers for the money and as long as you don't want to crank the sound to nose bleed levels, I think you'll be fine. However, the Images are a smoother sounding speaker and can play louder and lower (especially the Image B25's vs the Image B1's).

Personally, if you're pinching pennies I'd get the Alpha's. You have years of earnings ahead of you to buy better PSB's. That, plus sticking Alpha's into the back of a hatchback is a bit easier.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #1011 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 04:42 PM
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I like the B15s as the best value of all of them. Refined, smooth, 'tight' sounding.

Has anyone seen the Sienna finish on these? Extremely pretty!

John
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post #1012 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

You should take some English classes so you can understand what an actual oxymoron is. I said 'wimpy', not useless. The fact that is only "sufficient" and wouldn't be suitable for at least some harder to drive speakers is grounds for being described as 'wimpy', as is Onkyo's official position that they shouldn't be used with anything less than 6 ohms. Someone, for instance, can be a poor writer or lack in-depth understanding of words and language and yet still communicate sufficiently to get the point across, offensively at times, apparently.

Let me help you out with an English lesson:

wim·py
adjective
weak and ineffectual [syn: wimpish]

in·ef·fec·tu·al
adj.
1. Insufficient to produce a desired effect
2. Useless; worthless

So you are saying Onkyo's are "insufficient to produce a desired effect but they are suitable to drive most speakers"

Perhaps it's just me but that does sound contradictory..... y'know.... kinda like an oxymoron.
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post #1013 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 05:30 PM
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Adj. Feeble, weak. Also applied to objects or places, e.g."The furnishings were a little wimpy for such bold decor."

Or 'the amp was a bit wimpy for such hard to drive speakers"

John
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post #1014 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Adj. Feeble, weak. Also applied to objects or places, e.g."The furnishings were a little wimpy for such bold decor."

Or 'the amp was a bit wimpy for such hard to drive speakers"

Fair enough.... I understand the point you were trying to make. I still don't agree with you though. My Onkyo 705 effortlessly drives my PSB's to very high volume levels without even breaking a sweat.

btw. Urban Dictionary is not the most scholarly reference. As described by themselves... "Urban Dictionary is a slang dictionary with your definitions". I'd definitely encourage you to give Dictionary.com a try.... it references a number of well respected sources.
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post #1015 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Huttizo View Post

Hey PR, Have you compared the T45 to the B15/B25/T55/T65? Can you give me your impressions? Thank you.

Not to the B15, but yes to the others...I have B25 also, so I have done side to side comparison to the T45. If you are in a tight budget the B25 offers excellent sound, not as detailed as the T45 and more laidback. The drawback is that it is somewhat muddied when compared to the T45. I would recommend the B25 as an option to the T45. B25 is an excellent all around speaker, while the T45 excells with more refined music like jazz, percusion, classical, opera, r&b, electronica, and pop. If your main thing is watching movies I wouldn't save $$$ by buying B25. On the other hand, because of the T45 is that these days my main listening preference is music. In the past my listening preference was 95% movies.

T55 sounds very similar to the T45, also somewhat muddy when compared to the T45. I find that the extra minimal bass it offers is not as tight as the T45, and not worth the extra $$$.

T65 is an improvement over the T55, even though basically the same arrangement as the T55, but with an extra woofer. The T65 is more detailed than the T55, but not as detailed as the T45. It is not as dynamic as the T45, but in a good way. If you like the T45, and consider yourself a bass head, the T65 is for you. Though T45 with a very good sub can be as good.

If your room is 14' x 20', or similar dimensions, I would consider T45, for larger rooms the T65 will better fill the space. Be advised that the complete Image Series will benefit from a "warm"/neutral sounding receiver/amp like Marantz, NAD, HK tube amp, or similar.
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post #1016 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xericmx View Post

Before I increased the db level on the sub, I did that test and I could not tell the difference in sound. If the sub was on or off the sound was the same....during music the sub never even put out a note...the T45's did it all. I'm not saying it sounded bad at all. I just like the added bass the sub can give so I've made a few changes and like the results I got.

I have a new appreciation for PSB after getting the T45's. The B25's were very good when I heard them, but I'm very happy I went with the T45's. I just need to get surrounds now.

If on a budget, and not into multi channel music, I highly recommend PSB Alpha LR1 for surround duties. I have them, and with proper setup in the receiver they can keep up with the T45's when watching movies.
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post #1017 of 5723 Old 04-09-2008, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I own Images right now (saving for Synchrony's) and my Dad has the Alpha's. I think the Alpha's are kick a** speakers for the money and as long as you don't want to crank the sound to nose bleed levels, I think you'll be fine. However, the Images are a smoother sounding speaker and can play louder and lower (especially the Image B25's vs the Image B1's).

Personally, if you're pinching pennies I'd get the Alpha's. You have years of earnings ahead of you to buy better PSB's. That, plus sticking Alpha's into the back of a hatchback is a bit easier.


Thanks for the input. I really wish that I could find somewhere to audition several different PSB speakers, but the nearest place is a 2.5 hour drive from school... and I don't have a car. There are a lot of certified PSB dealers closer to home, but that's not at all convenient.
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post #1018 of 5723 Old 04-10-2008, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by PrtyFlyFrWhteGuy View Post

Thanks for the input. I really wish that I could find somewhere to audition several different PSB speakers, but the nearest place is a 2.5 hour drive from school... and I don't have a car. There are a lot of certified PSB dealers closer to home, but that's not at all convenient.

You really should audition before you buy.... your own opinion is the most important. After you have auditioned them perhaps your close to home dealer could ship them to school.
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post #1019 of 5723 Old 04-10-2008, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PR Audio View Post

T65 is an improvement over the T55, even though basically the same arrangement as the T55, but with an extra woofer. The T65 is more detailed than the T55, but not as detailed as the T45. It is not as dynamic as the T45, but in a good way.

PR Audio, what do you mean exactly when you say "not as dynamic but in a good way"?

I've been listening to the T45s and find them incredibly detailed (and dynamic). All that detail and dynamism means they are a bit "sharp". Not digital, not grating, just precise in a way that makes me wonder if they will get tiring after a while. (These are new speakers, so I don't know if they'll mellow as they break in. And so far, I pretty much like what I hear).

Aside from improved bass (which is not that big an issue for me), do you find the T65's fuller, warmer, richer in a way that makes it a better speaker (even if not as rigidly detailed as the T45s)?

Hope that question was clear (I recongnize that all descriptions of the listening experience are fraught with difficulty).

Thanks.
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post #1020 of 5723 Old 04-10-2008, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by spyrelx View Post

These are new speakers, so I don't know if they'll mellow as they break in.

It's been pretty much shown that speakers don't "break in", our hearing adjusts. :-)

That's probably a good thing, I'd hate to think that 24 hours of playing would actually physically change a speaker!

But yeah, the T45's do often sound bright to a lot of people. In particular, if their previous speakers aren't as flat. Older males sometimes have a hard time adjusting to it, but mostly it isn't an issue over the longer run (or at least one that can't be resolved with a small adjustment of the EQ curve).
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