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post #1981 of 5878 Old 07-15-2009, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by scientest View Post

Congrats on the new purchase.

I certainly don't see any reason not to try the Kef sub and see what you think. I'd start with as low of x over as possible and be prepared to play with placement and x over to see what works best.

You might first want to play with placement of the fronts to see if you can get the imaging more to your liking. Play with toe in and try them as far away from the side walls as you can (or add wall treatment at the first reflection points if you ca).

I did end up using the Kef sub as well as the Image 1B for surrounds, and I'm much more impressed with this HT set-up than I was with my previous one. If I actually had speaker stands I'd have used the MKII-50's as the rear with the Century 1000i as my mains, but as it is I have no proper place to put the MKII set. They seem to have the same tweeters so that's why I figured it'd be the best sound (or the 1B + 2B + Sub).

I'd already toed them in a few degrees as I'd learned reading many of the pages in this thread. My fronts are placed about 30" & 80" from the side walls and about 10" from the back of the speaker to the wall. I'm not so sure I can adjust the crossover for the sub. My AVR247 only has a few options for the sub: L/R, Centre, Off (IIRC). I set-up the speakers with L/R as Large, Centre and Surrounds small. I think I set the crossover to 40Hz for L/R, 100 for Centre, and 120 for the Surrounds. I've never set crossover settings before, as I'd usually used the EzQ thing. This time it's balance was way off so I did everything manually.

I'll use the MKII + 2B in a different room and perhaps get a sub for a second HT down the road. I'm just so happy that I have found these beauties!

And I'm not sure what it is, but there's been quite a few "used" PSB speakers being sold in my city for the past month. Best deal in home Hi-Fi!

Cheers,

THC
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post #1982 of 5878 Old 07-16-2009, 02:05 PM
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Hello,

I have a chance to buy a pair of PSB Image 4T speakers for $400 CDN. Is this a good price? The seller says they are 4 years old. I will probably pay less. How do these sounds for 2 channel music?

Here is the listing.

Thanks.
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post #1983 of 5878 Old 07-16-2009, 07:28 PM
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Does anyone have a good pair of white Alpha A/V's that they want to sell? I know they made these in the late 90's and am not sure when they were replaced.

Thanks

Well, I just looked at the old specs and see that the A/V's didn't come in white. So, I guess I am looking for a pair of Alpha mini's which came in black, dark cherry and white.
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post #1984 of 5878 Old 07-17-2009, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by hdtvluvr View Post

Does anyone have a good pair of white Alpha A/V's that they want to sell? I know they made these in the late 90's and am not sure when they were replaced.

Thanks

Well, I just looked at the old specs and see that the A/V's didn't come in white. So, I guess I am looking for a pair of Alpha mini's which came in black, dark cherry and white.

Iv got some t45's and a c40 center fs.....

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post #1985 of 5878 Old 07-17-2009, 06:04 AM
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Well, I'm trying to match my current setup and add 2 rear speakers for a 7.1 setup. I currently have:

PSB Alpha A/V (Fronts)
PSB 200 (Center)
PSB Ambient II (Di-pole Surrounds)
PSB Century Subsonic 2i

I need to match the timbre with what I have and I really need to have white speakers in the rear and black fronts. What color are the T45's? Would they match the timbre of what I have? If so, I could put them in front and possibly move my A/V's to the rear after repainting them white. However, I'm not sure how I'd get the grill white since I don't think they are removable/replaceable. Does anyone know if they can be removed/replaced?
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post #1986 of 5878 Old 07-17-2009, 05:26 PM
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I'm having problems. First my 5i has had the amp replaced twice now. Second, I have not really been happy with the sound of my system so I started investigating and found the tweeters in my T45s aren't working. Am I just having bad luck? I have been reading this thread for a while and don't recall complaints. I use Auddessey to set up and have the volume on my AVR locked at -10 so I never get crazy.
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post #1987 of 5878 Old 07-18-2009, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtvluvr View Post

Well, I'm trying to match my current setup and add 2 rear speakers for a 7.1 setup. I currently have:

PSB Alpha A/V (Fronts)
PSB 200 (Center)
PSB Ambient II (Di-pole Surrounds)
PSB Century Subsonic 2i

I need to match the timbre with what I have and I really need to have white speakers in the rear and black fronts. What color are the T45's? Would they match the timbre of what I have? If so, I could put them in front and possibly move my A/V's to the rear after repainting them white. However, I'm not sure how I'd get the grill white since I don't think they are removable/replaceable. Does anyone know if they can be removed/replaced?


black.

Panasonic 65" plasma*

Denon 4520* 

PSB T45* PSB B15* PSB C60*

Dual PSA XS30* Dual PSA XS15se*

Squeezbox*

Niles ZR-6 6 Source, 6 room Audio Reciever*

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post #1988 of 5878 Old 07-18-2009, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by wiggindude View Post

Hello,

I have a chance to buy a pair of PSB Image 4T speakers for $400 CDN. Is this a good price? The seller says they are 4 years old. I will probably pay less. How do these sounds for 2 channel music?

Here is the listing.

Thanks.

I use these speakers as rear speakers with Boston Acoustics VR3 in front. There is a professional review comparing them with the image t45. The reviewer said he thought they sounded about the same. I did use them a fronts for about two years and was able to compare them to Axiom m60 and B&w dm604. Although they had slightly different sound qualities than the other speakers It was more a matter of taste as to what was the better speaker. I thought the PSB had better bass sound than the axiom and came close to the B&W in the upper end. The reviewer thought they were near audiophile quality. If they are in good shape I think you would be hard pressed to find speakers that would sound as good, new or used, in that price range.
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post #1989 of 5878 Old 07-18-2009, 09:45 PM
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Not sure can i post those pictures here? But if you have a facebook account, go and have a look, look promising with a similar "look" of Imagine series. Can't wait for them to launch and comparision between older series and new

HT setup : Optoma HD20/Emotiva UMC-1/Emotiva UPA-5/Oppo BDP-80/Playstation 3/PSB image T6,C5,B15/Mirage Omni S10/DH Labs Q10/QED 79 strand SC/Nordost "Red Dawn" & "Blue Heaven"/Nordost "Blue Heaven" (sub)/Iego pc
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post #1990 of 5878 Old 07-18-2009, 10:26 PM
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Doesn't look like much changes were made on the outside.
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post #1991 of 5878 Old 07-19-2009, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Veda View Post

Doesn't look like much changes were made on the outside.

looks like psb using the old image casing, but adapt imagine front panel and woofer. i'm very interested in the T65 replacement, judging from the pix, looks like they use a 5.25" midrange and 2x6.5" midbass.(good move, that would improve the average midrange of the T65)
If they use the same quality Ceramic filled Polypropylene Cone woofers, then i have a very high expectation.
Can't wait to audition them.
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post #1992 of 5878 Old 07-19-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veda View Post



Doesn't look like much changes were made on the outside.

You need a closer look. They are substantially different from their predecessors.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #1993 of 5878 Old 07-19-2009, 01:43 PM
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Yeah, from what I can make out of the pic, the drivers are different, the tweeters are no longer at the top (of the towers), there is no phase diffusor, and the ports seem to be larger.

 

 

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post #1994 of 5878 Old 07-20-2009, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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PSB pre-launch photos on their facebook page

they have a slightly more rounded shape and yes the front panel is totally re-designed along with the driver. At this price point i suspect it is near impossible to make the Image drastically different. Because at this price point you still have to make the speaker a box of MDF.
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post #1995 of 5878 Old 07-20-2009, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvinlau View Post

looks like psb using the old image casing, but adapt imagine front panel and woofer. i'm very interested in the T65 replacement, judging from the pix, looks like they use a 5.25" midrange and 2x6.5" midbass.(good move, that would improve the average midrange of the T65)
If they use the same quality Ceramic filled Polypropylene Cone woofers, then i have a very high expectation.
Can't wait to audition them.

You have good eye sight man, u are right on the T6 config., making it like the synchrony two design...

Just release, hot news http://www.psbspeakers.com/news/New-...es-of-Speakers

The tweeter is of same lead as synchrony and imagine: Quote from psb website
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A highly accurate, one-inch titanium dome tweeter with ferrofluid and a very efficient neodymium magnet structure, borrowed from the Synchrony design portfolio, helps to extend output at both frequency extremes for effortless, airy top octaves and smooth, uncolored response."

The woofer
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSB View Post

The woofers employ injection-molded diaphragms with a proprietary, clay/ceramic-filled polypropylene cone that uniquely optimizes stiffness, internal damping and low mass. The woofers’ magnetically neutral polycarbonate basket contributes additional stiffness, while its bullet-shaped phase-plug (borrowing from the Synchrony design) enhances linearity at higher frequencies.

This make me so bloody damn eager to have my hand on them man (especially the T6) Just from all this write up, i'm sure this new image series will be another mark up from the already very good "now" image series.. Drooling....... smelling another re-write in history of VFM mid-low price champion

HT setup : Optoma HD20/Emotiva UMC-1/Emotiva UPA-5/Oppo BDP-80/Playstation 3/PSB image T6,C5,B15/Mirage Omni S10/DH Labs Q10/QED 79 strand SC/Nordost "Red Dawn" & "Blue Heaven"/Nordost "Blue Heaven" (sub)/Iego pc
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post #1996 of 5878 Old 07-22-2009, 07:24 AM
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Does anyone with some experience with past PSB model upgrades have any input on what to expect with the new version of the Images that were just announced? I am (or was...?) about a month and a half away from pulling the trigger on a T45, C40 & B15 combo, but now I'm thinking I should wait to either get the current models at a potentially discounted price, or grab the new ones when they come out instead. Obviously there's a significant overhaul aesthetically, but other than that, do you guys think these will be worth waiting a few more months for? Did anyone on here get to hear/see them demo'd at CEDIA?

Also, does an increase in wattage mean they'll be more difficult to drive? I really know next to nothing about the mechanics of speakers. I'm looking at one of the new mid-range Denon's (the 2310/890 or 3310/990) as an AVR, but that was based on driving the current Images. Will that still be sufficient?

The other thing is, some places have been selling the T45's in the $500 - $600 range (CAD) for a while now... at least for as long as I've been looking into them. What are the chances that we'll see "sale" prices like these on the new ones when they're released? Has there been a history of selling these speakers below MSRP in general, or is it just a recent trend, possibly due to the expected end-of-life approaching for this version? As far as I can tell though, they've been discounted since at least last Christmas... which was about a year ahead of the expected launch of the new version.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Thanks,

Doug
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post #1997 of 5878 Old 07-22-2009, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

I recently bought a T55/C40 combo and two pairs of B25s, so when I saw the announcment I had a slight pang of buyer's remorse.

But then I remembered that speakers are very mature technology, and notwithstanding the claims of the product marketing folks each generation is only incrementally better than the previous one.

So I'd say your decision boils down to whether your are the type who likes to have the latest and greatest (in which case wait) or whether you OK with buying the previous release and saving a few bucks.
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post #1998 of 5878 Old 07-22-2009, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

Also, does an increase in wattage mean they'll be more difficult to drive?

You want to look at the sensitivity to know how hard they are to drive. It's hard to do a direct comparison, but in general the new ones appear to drop 1 to 4db compared to the old line. This may sound trivial, but in theory, a 3db drop can mean a requirement for double the power to get to the same volume level. In practice, the room, listening distance and the speaker dispersion and flatness come into play. The latter is important because, in my experience, PSB tends to sacrifice some sensitivity for better flatness and dispersion (both in comparison to other manufacturers and previous models). This sometimes makes them more room dependent than some other speakers and may be the case here in comparison to the older Image series. (I'm just speculating based on past history here!) However, unless you have a really large room and like really loud levels you shouldn't have too many issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

I really know next to nothing about the mechanics of speakers. I'm looking at one of the new mid-range Denon's (the 2310/890 or 3310/990) as an AVR, but that was based on driving the current Images. Will that still be sufficient?

I have a 3308 which is more than adequate for the older models, the 3310 should do the job, subject to the above caveats. I haven't looked at the specs on the 2310.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

The other thing is, some places have been selling the T45's in the $500 - $600 range (CAD) for a while now... at least for as long as I've been looking into them. What are the chances that we'll see "sale" prices like these on the new ones when they're released? Has there been a history of selling these speakers below MSRP in general, or is it just a recent trend, possibly due to the expected end-of-life approaching for this version? As far as I can tell though, they've been discounted since at least last Christmas... which was about a year ahead of the expected launch of the new version.

The Image line has traditionally been PSBs best selling line. As a result there are bigger volumes and more people doing deals, selling blemishes and selling gray market models. I'd expect this to continue to be the case in the future but I'd expect it to take a year or two before you find the same kind of relative deals on the newer line. Prices will still likely be higher than the older line at that point, but I'd say you are getting a better speaker for your money. Will it make any difference? Likely not for many people, but if you're picky it might. IE, for well recorded small chamber orchestra type music, or jazz ensembles you _might_ hear differences that matter. For loud rock and roll, or movie explosions, I don't think you will care.
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post #1999 of 5878 Old 07-22-2009, 10:12 AM
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watch out ur local dealer will clear old image stock!
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post #2000 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 10:15 AM
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Does anyone have a good recommendation for Synchrony Surrounds mounts (to be mounted on side walls)? I'm planning to upgrade to a Synchrony home theater and music set-up in the fall and was wondering what would work. I currently own an Alpha system and a pair of T45s. Thanks for any feedback.
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post #2001 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 10:32 AM
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Does anyone have a good recommendation for Synchrony Surrounds mounts (to be mounted on side walls)? I'm planning to upgrade to a Synchrony home theater and music set-up in the fall and was wondering what would work. I currently own an Alpha system and a pair of T45s. Thanks for any feedback.

I used these for a pair of Image S-50's which are 18 lbs each:

Panavise 110120W Speaker Mount White

They say they have a 20 lb limit and the Synchrony surrounds are supposed to weigh in at 20 lbs. Given my experience I'd say you should be able to make them work but they're not the easiest things to work with and you'll need to make sure you have good mounting points. I ended up giving them a shot with some white spray paint to hide the black bits of hardware which was slightly visually annoying.

I think the PSBs come with mounting templates (might be just written instructions) which do not match up with these mounts. As I recall they do recommend some mounts in the documentation that comes with the speakers. You could try contacting PSB support and asking them what they would recommend.
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post #2002 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 10:58 AM
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I was interested in getting the PSB Imagine T's, Imagine C and some of the new Image B5's for surround. I don't want to get a seperate amp, but since the Imagine's are 4 ohm rated and require more power than Images I am not sure what I should do. I am willing to spend about $600 - $1000US on a receiver. Do you think I will be able to push these as they should be with a mid level receiver or will I require seperates? Thanks.
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post #2003 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

I used these for a pair of Image S-50's which are 18 lbs each:

Panavise 110120W Speaker Mount White

They say they have a 20 lb limit and the Synchrony surrounds are supposed to weigh in at 20 lbs. Given my experience I'd say you should be able to make them work but they're not the easiest things to work with and you'll need to make sure you have good mounting points. I ended up giving them a shot with some white spray paint to hide the black bits of hardware which was slightly visually annoying.

I think the PSBs come with mounting templates (might be just written instructions) which do not match up with these mounts. As I recall they do recommend some mounts in the documentation that comes with the speakers. You could try contacting PSB support and asking them what they would recommend.

ok, thanks a lot, I'll give them a shot.
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post #2004 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ings View Post

...I'd say your decision boils down to whether your are the type who likes to have the latest and greatest (in which case wait) or whether you OK with buying the previous release and saving a few bucks.

Thanks. Unfortunately, I tend to be the type who likes the latest and greatest, assuming there is a noticeable improvement in the upgrade. If there's not though, I can put that urge aside, and go the other way for a change and get the older version at a lower price. I just know it would be a looooong time before I ever upgraded this system, so that also has me leaning toward the newer design.

Doug
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post #2005 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinylJunkie View Post

I was interested in getting the PSB Imagine T's, Imagine C and some of the new Image B5's for surround. I don't want to get a seperate amp, but since the Imagine's are 4 ohm rated and require more power than Images I am not sure what I should do. I am willing to spend about $600 - $1000US on a receiver. Do you think I will be able to push these as they should be with a mid level receiver or will I require seperates? Thanks.

I drive my Image series (T45s, C45, B15s) with a Denon 3808 and have no problems. I have read posts from quite a few 3808 owners in these forums that are driving 4ohm speakers.
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post #2006 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

You want to look at the sensitivity to know how hard they are to drive. It's hard to do a direct comparison, but in general the new ones appear to drop 1 to 4db compared to the old line. This may sound trivial, but in theory, a 3db drop can mean a requirement for double the power to get to the same volume level.

Hmm... that sounds bad... unless it is only noticeable approaching maximum volume or something. I really have no idea how the output ratings from a receiver interact with the db scale. Would the newer speakers suffer at all volumes if they're being underpowered, or only at higher levels? Sorry for the kind of off-topic question. I think I'm going to do some reading up on this stuff and try to edumacate myself a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

In practice, the room, listening distance and the speaker dispersion and flatness come into play. The latter is important because, in my experience, PSB tends to sacrifice some sensitivity for better flatness and dispersion (both in comparison to other manufacturers and previous models). This sometimes makes them more room dependent than some other speakers and may be the case here in comparison to the older Image series. (I'm just speculating based on past history here!) However, unless you have a really large room and like really loud levels you shouldn't have too many issues.

If it's of any value in stating this here, the room I plan to set these up in is very wide, but not too deep. It's about 11' deep (deep meaning front to back, with the viewing/listening distance being only a couple feet less based on having the couch on the back wall and the TV on the front), by 8' high, by 24' wide. The area I'm planning on setting everything up in is about a 12' portion of that width, and is off to one side of the room. It's hardwood floors, and paneled walls (which I intend to replace with drywall one day down the road). The ceiling is wood too, but has several wooden beams running from front to back, breaking up the surface of it somewhat. So I'm predicting some heavy reflections, but I'm hoping I can fill it up with furniture and an area rug and stuff to dampen it a bit. The closest side wall is almost entirely a sliding glass door, but I will be hanging a huge set of curtains there, so hopefully that won't be a problem.

Thanks for the detailed response!

Doug
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post #2007 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

Hmm... that sounds bad... unless it is only noticeable approaching maximum volume or something. I really have no idea how the output ratings from a receiver interact with the db scale. Would the newer speakers suffer at all volumes if they're being underpowered, or only at higher levels?

Basically, a speaker that is 3db less efficient than another would need twice the power to reach the same listening levels as the other speaker. So if you need 5 watt for normal listening with the more efficient speaker then the less efficient speaker will need 10 watts for listening at the same volume. If you need 50 watts for peaks with the more efficient model, then the less efficient speaker will need 100 watts. Whether those are realistic numbers for the room you describe, the music you like, and the volumes you like, I really can't guess, but I'd be surprised if you need peaks that can't be hit with something like a Denon 3310.
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post #2008 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 02:44 PM
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I was considering replacing my older PSB 4T towers with the self-powered Klipsch X48s. Considering that the Klipsch's are on sale for about $1K from Vanns dot com, they look very attractive. I have not sampled them but the reviews were mixed. "Harsh highs" is what stayed in my mind after reading some of their reviews.

Does anyone know what month exactly the new line of PSB Image speakers is coming out? PSB announced it's going to be in the fourth quarter of '09. I am leaning more towards the new Image T5s.

MSRP from PSB

Image T5 Tower $899/pair
Image T6 Tower $1,199/pair

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post #2009 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 03:29 PM
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There is one statement in the PSB blurb about the new Images that leaves me mystified:

Along with more robust baffles made from 1-1/8-inch thick MDF, a material usually reserved for more expensive models, the new Image speakers exhibit a highly finished look, with clean and soft, esthetically pleasing lines and no visible fasteners.

Like huh? As any cabinet maker knows, MDF is a cheap(er) substitute for wood. Apart from low cost, it's main redeeming feature is that it is very smooth and it takes paint very well.

So what is PSB trying to say? That they normally use an even cheaper material for baffles?
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post #2010 of 5878 Old 07-23-2009, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ings View Post

There is one statement in the PSB blurb about the new Images that leaves me mystified:

Along with more robust baffles made from 1-1/8-inch thick MDF, a material usually reserved for more expensive models, the new Image speakers exhibit a highly finished look, with clean and soft, esthetically pleasing lines and no visible fasteners.

Like huh? As any cabinet maker knows, MDF is a cheap(er) substitute for wood. Apart from low cost, it's main redeeming feature is that it is very smooth and it takes paint very well.

So what is PSB trying to say? That they normally use an even cheaper material for baffles?

1-1/8-inch thick MDF

3/4" (if even) is pretty much the norm on speakers in this price range...
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