Monitor Audio Owners Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 10249 Old 09-18-2006, 08:24 AM
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Looking to buy a pair of RS6s.

The only "dealers" we have any where near Portland, Maine are "custom installers," "by appointment only" operating out of their own houses. Not exactly go-get-em business types. Apparently MA doesn't allow any "authorized" web sales.

So is it eBay or grey market off the web? 20% discount, no warranty, apparently Canadian imports?
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post #392 of 10249 Old 09-23-2006, 11:48 AM
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I am planning to purchase GS 20 and use them for stereo purposes only.Would Harmon Kardon HK 3480 120 watts receiver do a good job or are there better options ?
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post #393 of 10249 Old 09-23-2006, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gross77777 View Post

I am planning to purchase GS 20 and use them for stereo purposes only.Would Harmon Kardon HK 3480 120 watts receiver do a good job or are there better options ?

if youre gonan spend that much change on a pair of speakers i would definitely have an amp to accompany them

you can either go the power amp route (get behringer or crown..), or the regular amp route (get outlaw..)
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post #394 of 10249 Old 09-23-2006, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gross77777 View Post

I am planning to purchase GS 20 and use them for stereo purposes only.Would Harmon Kardon HK 3480 120 watts receiver do a good job or are there better options ?


If the room is not that big (perhaps the living room of a 1000sqft. condo) then the HK is a great choice... If you want to add some warmth to these very squeaky clean sounding speakers. If you want the most sparkling clean transparent music go arcam integrated.
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post #395 of 10249 Old 09-23-2006, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gross77777 View Post

I am planning to purchase GS 20 and use them for stereo purposes only.Would Harmon Kardon HK 3480 120 watts receiver do a good job or are there better options ?

I wouldnt pair the GS20s on a HK receiver. You need clean power for these puppies. The GS speakers are some of the most brutally honest speakers out there, meaning crap in crap out.

I would recommend a decent integrated amplifier:

Arcam
YBA Design
NAD
Rotel

You can even purchase the lifestyle stack from Parasound Halo:
P3 Preamp
A23 125 x2 of real watts
You can pound those GS20s into submission with that amp.

Or you can even just add a separate 2 channel amp and use your receiver as a preamp (even though its not the best preamp)
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post #396 of 10249 Old 09-24-2006, 12:27 AM
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If H/K is not going to be "good enough" then adding an amp will only be amplifying the "dirty" sound. I have heard the pre-amp and the DACs make larger differences than the amplifier. If you want the HK, dont amplify!

The H/K is not transparent, it is warm, something my ears need with these speakers. But I fear the H/K may not image properly because it does not have a "pure direct" like my marantz. If you are anal about soundstage, then beware that H/K cant turn off the digital processing. (which is what it suffers beneath the likes of arcam etc.) Other than that, H/K is underrated in power... the key is the current they can push. So power is fine. IMO, if you are going japanese receiver, denon, pioneer, sony, toshiba, onkyo will be more bright than HK. And the GR20 sure are bright to me (with these electronics). The best bang for your buck is arcam avr300. Sound like seperates, price like receiver.
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post #397 of 10249 Old 09-24-2006, 02:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Adding an amp will help because HK limits the current in their receiver like most mass market receivers. A separate amplifier can supply much more current. You wont be able to extract the low level detail out of the recording without current, which is the very reason to buy expensive speakers. They can sound very bright not matched to the right gear.

Arcam or Marantz are the only receivers that I would consider to pair up, because it doesnt sound like a receiver at all. NAD makes a good receiver, but they have horrible reliability problems from my firsthand experience with the line.

A preamp can make more difference than a power amplifier because the preamp actually amplifies relatively more signal than a power amplifier does. DACs will make a difference to a certain extent, but most reasonably priced components have good enough DACs.
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post #398 of 10249 Old 09-24-2006, 03:55 AM
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Hi everyone,

I have been reading AVS for quite a while but decided to join up to participate in the Monitor Audio thread!

I am in the process of assembling my first serious home theater system and have gone with the following Monitor Audio speakers;

2x GS60
1x GSLCR
2x GSFX

I have backed these up with a REL 505 sub. The choice of the other elements of the system has been less straight forward. I started out with a Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver and DV-79AVi DVD player. Of course, very soon it became clear that although my room is by no means that large (roughly 16'x14'x10') adding a power amp(s) could only improve the performance of the speakers. I was however, still unsure of the best way to go with respect to the amp and other elements.

It was at this point that I had to revaluate the type money I was willing to spend. The GS speakers are the most fulfilling I have heard and in my humble opinion offered sound and build quality that was equal if not preferable to some of the much more expensive brands I had seen & listened to (although the GS's are by no means cheap!) As has been stated already, it became an issue of what sounded better on the day rather than the heady claims of some marketing materials.

When I decided to step up and look at a dedicated pre/pro and power amp I began to feel that it was a difficult time to be in the market. The choice of power amp was more straight forward and there is no shortage of great options. I wanted to take full advantage of what the Monitor Audios could do and bi-amp the main left & right GS60's and GSLCR centre while still having two channels left over to drive the GSFX surrounds. Initially I was all set to go with an Arcam Full Metal Jacket' P7 with either one FMJ P32 or, as it was even suggested 2 FMJ P1's to power the effects! Both of these options would have given more than enough channels and great quality but I was becoming short of rack space and wondered if I could get the eight channels I needed all in one high quality enclosure.

Looking at almost all the manufacturers I could think of no one seemed to make a product like this. While searching Google one day I came across the Theta Digital website and was very excited to read about the Dreadnaught II modular power amp. Further reading of reviews and other info about this amp revealed that not only would it allow me to get the number of channels I wanted but would do so with very high sound quality. After contacting Theta and giving them the details of my speakers, they recommended a configuration of 4 Stereo modules which would give me 8x 100W 8Ω channels and plenty of current to drive my GS system in the room I have.

I will shortly order the amp through my local dealer (that is when I decide which color to go with! Black or Silver? I am leaning toward black since my Monitor Audios are piano black as well as my black Pioneer plasma)

I will use the Pioneer receiver's pre-outs for the time being as right now I am reluctant to spend a lot of money (which after the Dreadnaught II I no longer have, it costs almost twice as much once it's 50kg box hits the UK shores ) on a dedicated pre-pro until the HDMI world is a little more settled.

The Pioneer is not complimentary to the Dreadnaught in terms of quality but given it's relatively bargain price I feel it is better than going with a multi thousand $ pre-pro with limited or no HDMI connectivity at this point in time. I could be wrong about holding off on the pre-pro but I would like to see what offerings are available with HDMI 1.3 in the next year or two before pulling the trigger.

I am really excited about my system and I hope this post does not come across as boastful or arrogant in any way. This is my first real' system and I am grateful for any advice anyone can offer. This thread has already been very educational.

Best Regards,

Sean.

EDIT: spelling
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post #399 of 10249 Old 09-24-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

NAD makes a good receiver, but they have horrible reliability problems from my firsthand experience with the line..

I wonder why. My brother has been an NAD freak since the seventies, and all of his units (I think a new one every 6 years about) have had problems. I've had an H/K receiver that saw me through high school, college and now at work with daily use... and its been fantastic. Ironic that HE bought me that HK...

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Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

A preamp can make more difference than a power amplifier because the preamp actually amplifies relatively more signal than a power amplifier does.

don't forget that a receiver's preamp has the most electronic components of a unit, vs the amp that is very simple. The signal has a long treacherous path through digital noodles. This is why its important to have that bypass switch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

DACs will make a difference to a certain extent, but most reasonably priced components have good enough DACs.

To undermine a bel canto DAC for instance, and then claim that a sh*ty receiver DAC is close.... is pure audio heresy.
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post #400 of 10249 Old 09-24-2006, 10:26 PM
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[quote=sierraalphahotel]Hi everyone,

I have been reading AVS for quite a while but decided to join up to participate in the Monitor Audio thread!

I am in the process of assembling my first serious home theater system and have gone with the following Monitor Audio speakers;

2x GS60
1x GSLCR
2x GSFX
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have the same speakers. I had them hooked up to a Marantz 8500. They sounded pretty good. I then added a B&K 200.7 amp to it. Since the Marantz is 7 channels I wanted to get a single 7 channnel amp. It made all the difference. These speakers sound really good to me. I now need to upgrade the cd player since the one I have is 13 years old and at the time wasnt even considered high end. Just not to sure what to get.

Congrats on your speakers... you will enjoy them
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post #401 of 10249 Old 09-25-2006, 12:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpgonzalez View Post

To undermine a bel canto DAC for instance, and then claim that a sh*ty receiver DAC is close.... is pure audio heresy.

I am speaking in relative terms here. I am not saying that a sh*ty receiver DAC will sound as good as a Bel Canto DAC, but I am saying that the DACs in an Arcam receiver will sound pretty much sound as good as the 10k dollar Levinson DAC. In my experience: speakers,amp,acoustics are the major players. The preamp and DACs are the gravy on top if you know what I mean. For most people on budgets you have to prioritize certain aspects of the system that wont be obsolete in 2 weeks, unlike current digital technology.
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post #402 of 10249 Old 09-25-2006, 01:37 AM
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Hi,

I cant speak much for outboard DAC's having never actually owned one but I can relate to what AudioArchitect is saying. After thinking about it, I decided it was more important for me to get a decent set of speakers and a high quality power amp then to buy a high end pre-pro until there is more adoption of HDMI amongst the 'high end' manufacturers.

There is obviously no possibility of ever buying a piece of electronics (with possible exception to the stand alone power amps) that wont be obsolete at some point but once HDMI 1.3 is natively supported by a high end pre-pro manufacturer, then at that point I will jump in. After speaking to some of the manufacturers of high end processors etc about the lack of or very limited support for HDMI, the answer I got was always something along the lines of 'we do not consider HDMI ready yet'. It could be argued that this line might be taking it a bit far. One of the many examples given to me was the thousands of apparently faulty HDMI cables that are returned to manufacturers which are found to be working just fine. One company even told me that only now were there HDMI 1.1 chips that they considered of sufficient quality to even consider.

Still all of what I have said is moot since the decision to go with the Dreadnaught amp has left me ill financially and even if the 'be all and end all' of processors was released tomorrow I would be in no position to buy it! I don't think I will find the sound with the Pioneer receiver all that bad

Regards,

Sean
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post #403 of 10249 Old 09-25-2006, 03:02 AM
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im trying to barter down the price of my RS6s + RSLCR to $1360 (thats 15% off exactly) at my magnolia.

if they dont go that low i can get kef or AV123s that i think can rival these speakers for the same price (especially with av123s trade in special).

ive had the RS6s auditioning in my home for almost a month now??

should i be prepared to return the silvers? i would feel kind of crappy havnig them for a whole month
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post #404 of 10249 Old 09-25-2006, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post

im trying to barter down the price of my RS6s + RSLCR to $1360 (thats 15% off exactly) at my magnolia.

if they dont go that low i can get kef or AV123s that i think can rival these speakers for the same price (especially with av123s trade in special).

ive had the RS6s auditioning in my home for almost a month now??

should i be prepared to return the silvers? i would feel kind of crappy havnig them for a whole month

I have listend to Rockets at the same price point as the RS-6s and IMO theres no comparrison.I was shocked in fact .
I definatly would do comparrison side by side 1st.I know everybody has there own prefernce for likes and such. But to me, it wasn't even close. The RS 6s could have been 2x the price from my perspective.
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post #405 of 10249 Old 09-25-2006, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainemanx View Post

Looking to buy a pair of RS6s.

The only "dealers" we have any where near Portland, Maine are "custom installers," "by appointment only" operating out of their own houses. Not exactly go-get-em business types. Apparently MA doesn't allow any "authorized" web sales.

So is it eBay or grey market off the web? 20% discount, no warranty, apparently Canadian imports?

Sorry I just reread and you are in Portland Maine (not portland, OR)...message deleted
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post #406 of 10249 Old 09-25-2006, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BuddF View Post

Sorry I just reread and you are in Portland Maine (not portland, OR)...message deleted

One year ago this time we were in Portland, OR... thinking of moving there... but, were able to listen to RS6s in Boston this weekend and received approval from She Who Must Be Obeyed... all systems go
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post #407 of 10249 Old 09-28-2006, 01:47 PM
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Been reading this thread, lots of great information. Many thanks to all that have contributed. I did have a couple of specific questions that I'm hoping fellow AVS'ers will be able to answer.

My existing receiver is an HK AVR 435 (65w/7 chs) with a SVS PB-10 sub. This setup is going to be 65% HT / 35% Music. In a dedicated room 15'W x 20'L x 10'H, soft carpet with an enormous sectional couch. After much auditioning in-store and in-home (lots of ID setups from Axiom, AV123, Ascend) I'm going to be picking up the following:

MA RS6's for Fronts
MA RSLCR for Center
Axiom QS8's for Surrounds

Now for my questions...

1.) Would the HK 435 be sufficient for powering the RS6's + RSLCR + Axiom QS8's?

2.) If not, would it be a good idea to go for a 2 channel amp to push the RS6's and using the 435 to drive the RSLCR + QS8's?

3.) Any specific recommendations for my situation for a quality budget amp that would make sense. Since I'm blowing my entire budget on speakers, I'm going to be going used here.

4.) Is there a difference between the RS6 and S6? I live in Chicago walking distance from Saturday Audio Exchange ... and they have great prices on the older models.



I'm a complete newbie in this arena trying to get a great setup, all suggestions are welcome (be gentle )!!


Thanks,
xyz
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post #408 of 10249 Old 09-29-2006, 05:45 AM
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Good choice in speakers, you will love them. I have a similar setup to you except I have a 7.1 so I have the RS6 for my fronts, RSLCR center, Axiom QS8 side surrounds and RS1 rear surrounds, you can't imagine the smile on my face once I had everything setup.

The HK can power your speakers, but you would be better off getting a separate amp for you fronts if you can. I have a Rotel 5 channel amp powering my entire front stage, I have the L and R biamped and the center getting one signal, with my receiver taking care of my surrounds. Later on I plan to get a separate amp for my surrounds. I listened to my system with all speakers powered my the receiver and I can clearly tell the difference, the separate amp just brings the speakers to life.

I can't speak about 2 channel amps but I would suggest if you are going to get an amp to let it at least power the entire front, you will notice a difference if you only have the L and R connected to the amp and not the center.

Good luck
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post #409 of 10249 Old 09-29-2006, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post

im trying to barter down the price of my RS6s + RSLCR to $1360 (thats 15% off exactly) at my magnolia.

if you live in san diego or near garden grove (O.C.) then I can sell you my barely used rs8's and RSLCR for $1450 (no tax obviously). Actually, if anyone is interested. But Im not actively selling because they are OK speakers and I dont want to ship them anywhere.

ps feel free to comment on my price anyone
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post #410 of 10249 Old 09-29-2006, 03:56 PM
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Another Monitor Audio fanatic here.

Would greatly appreciate recommendations based
on where I'm coming from, where I'm going to, and
givens, priorities, and prejudices.

Current system :
NAD C 541i CD
NAD C 420 tuner
NAD C 320BEE amp
Kimber Kable Interconnects
MA B2 Bronze, bi-wired, Kimber Kable


New system :

Givens:
- MA GS10s
- One remote to control all components.
- CD player and amplification only, no tuner needed.


Priorities:

- Clarity, accuracy, openness at low/medium volume, small to medium size room.
- Not interested in more bass performance or reach than what the GS10's provide.
- Overall system simplicity, as little as possible clutter: wires, racks, LED lights, and weight.
- MA GS-LCR stands.


Prejudices:

- Arcam components.
- Arcam Solo. Is this a waste of G10s?
( Have not been able to audition a Solo. )


Budget:

- Reasonably flexible. I can afford the GS10s, and don't want to waste them.
On the other hand, I probably wouldn't be interested in going
as far as bi-amping for example.

What would you do, given starting with the GS10s?

Right down to interconnects, would love advice.

Thanks!

Michael
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post #411 of 10249 Old 09-29-2006, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I carry Monitor Audio and Arcam.

I would go with an A80 or A90 integrated with a Cd73.

The A65 or Solo will power it but I think the others will do a better job. Arcam and Monitor Audio are a match made in heaven.

Parasound Halo works great with Monitor Audio as well.
P3 preamp with A23 amp and Arcam Cd73 player.

You will get more punch with the Halo stuff, but the Arcam tames the Monitor Audio tweeter better.
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post #412 of 10249 Old 09-30-2006, 09:52 PM
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Are the Monitor Audio RS6's TWICE as good as the B4's for 2x the price (for me)?
Keep in mind I will be powering whatever speaker I get with a Panny SA-XR57, 100 wpc receiver. I mostly listen to rock/pop/home theater. And due to space in my room (which is approx. 15' wide and 20' deep), the speakers will be placed only a couple inches out from the wall, and on either side of a fireplace. I don't use anything fancy for wires and I might have to sell my subwoofer(s) to buy the more expensive RS6's, so I might have to make do with no sub for a while. So it's sort of like (a) a pair of RS6's or (b) a pair of B4's and a Mirage S8 subwoofer. Of course I want the best "sound" possible, but I don't want the difference between these 2 speakers to be subtle. I want it to be ENORMOUS! I would audition them, but no one around me sells them. I'll probably get them mailorder.

Thanks!
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post #413 of 10249 Old 10-01-2006, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

I carry Monitor Audio and Arcam.

I would go with an A80 or A90 integrated with a Cd73.

The A65 or Solo will power it but I think the others will do a better job. Arcam and Monitor Audio are a match made in heaven.

Parasound Halo works great with Monitor Audio as well.
P3 preamp with A23 amp and Arcam Cd73 player.

You will get more punch with the Halo stuff, but the Arcam tames the Monitor Audio tweeter better.


Hi AudioArchitect, Would my Bronze (B2's, B1's and center) benefit from an eventual upgrade to an Arcam AVR300 (or 250, 350) being as they're well mated together?? Would there be a noticeable difference over my Denon 2807 with the Bronze series, or would the Arcam receivers be overkill for my speakers? Thanks.
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post #414 of 10249 Old 10-01-2006, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post

Are the Monitor Audio RS6's TWICE as good as the B4's for 2x the price (for me)?
Keep in mind I will be powering whatever speaker I get with a Panny SA-XR57, 100 wpc receiver. I mostly listen to rock/pop/home theater. And due to space in my room (which is approx. 15' wide and 20' deep), the speakers will be placed only a couple inches out from the wall, and on either side of a fireplace. I don't use anything fancy for wires and I might have to sell my subwoofer(s) to buy the more expensive RS6's, so I might have to make do with no sub for a while. So it's sort of like (a) a pair of RS6's or (b) a pair of B4's and a Mirage S8 subwoofer. Of course I want the best "sound" possible, but I don't want the difference between these 2 speakers to be subtle. I want it to be ENORMOUS! I would audition them, but no one around me sells them. I'll probably get them mailorder.

Thanks!

Yes the RS6's are twice as good.
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post #415 of 10249 Old 10-01-2006, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britcanuck View Post

Hi AudioArchitect, Would my Bronze (B2's, B1's and center) benefit from an eventual upgrade to an Arcam AVR300 (or 250, 350) being as they're well mated together?? Would there be a noticeable difference over my Denon 2807 with the Bronze series, or would the Arcam receivers be overkill for my speakers? Thanks.

I would sell your speakers first, and then spend the difference on upgrading to the RS series.

Then eventually upgrade to the Arcam. The Arcam is infinitely better sounding then the Denon receiver which is pretty horrible for a super detailed speaker like Monitor Audio.
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post #416 of 10249 Old 10-01-2006, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

You will get more punch with the Halo stuff, but the Arcam tames the Monitor Audio tweeter better.

I am looking to upgrade from a Yamaha 2400 to something better for my GR60's and both Parasound and Arcam are on the short list based on what is available from local dealers and feedback from this forum.

Could you elaborate a bit on the two statements you made. What is the problem with Monitor Audio tweeters that needs correcting? You say that Parasound has more punch, what exactly did you mean by that (i.e. louder, more bass, brighter more forward sound...?)
Thanks,

Mark

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post #417 of 10249 Old 10-01-2006, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post

Are the Monitor Audio RS6's TWICE as good as the B4's for 2x the price (for me)?
Keep in mind I will be powering whatever speaker I get with a Panny SA-XR57, 100 wpc receiver. I mostly listen to rock/pop/home theater. And due to space in my room (which is approx. 15' wide and 20' deep), the speakers will be placed only a couple inches out from the wall, and on either side of a fireplace. I don't use anything fancy for wires and I might have to sell my subwoofer(s) to buy the more expensive RS6's, so I might have to make do with no sub for a while. So it's sort of like (a) a pair of RS6's or (b) a pair of B4's and a Mirage S8 subwoofer. Of course I want the best "sound" possible, but I don't want the difference between these 2 speakers to be subtle. I want it to be ENORMOUS! I would audition them, but no one around me sells them. I'll probably get them mailorder.

Thanks!

Anyone have a thought on pairing RS6 with that receiver? Or placing them only a couple of inches from the wall? I'm not thinking either is a good idea, but I'm not an expert.
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post #418 of 10249 Old 10-01-2006, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking to upgrade from a Yamaha 2400 to something better for my GR60's and both Parasound and Arcam are on the short list based on what is available from local dealers and feedback from this forum.

Could you elaborate a bit on the two statements you made. What is the problem with Monitor Audio tweeters that needs correcting? You say that Parasound has more punch, what exactly did you mean by that (i.e. louder, more bass, brighter more forward sound...?)
Thanks,

Monitor Audio tweeters dont need correcting at all. They are voiced to be foward sounding. This is what makes them such a great home theater speaker. Sometimes in prolonged music listening sessions they can get fatiguing for some. Some people are more sensitive to it than others. The new GS line is better in this respect.

However, the Parasound Halo is incredible with the GR speakers. My first high end theater was GR60s, LCR, and Surrounds with Halo JC1s and A51. I would put the system up against any of the most expensive setups out there. The Arcam FMJ amplifier P7 is awesome as well because you can passive biamp your fronts in a 5.1 system. It wont have quite as many watts as the Halo amp but is incredible for music listening. Both the Halo and Arcam amps have a slightly smooth top end which perfectly complements the forward sounding tweeter. If your main goal is home theater, the Halo amp will control those woofers better than the Arcam. I felt they had just as good bass as the Krell amps I tried.

The only other two amps that I would consider are:

Halcro MC50
Simaudio Aurora
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post #419 of 10249 Old 10-01-2006, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sellis16 View Post

Anyone have a thought on pairing RS6 with that receiver? Or placing them only a couple of inches from the wall? I'm not thinking either is a good idea, but I'm not an expert.

The RS6's are an easy load for pretty much any receiver. We typically pair Monitor Audio with Marantz or Arcam. You can offset some of the sidewall reflections by toeing them in slightly but obviously its good to avoid the sidewalls if at all possible.

How far back are you sitting? How far apart are the speakers from each other?
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post #420 of 10249 Old 10-02-2006, 07:05 AM
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The RS6's are an easy load for pretty much any receiver. We typically pair Monitor Audio with Marantz or Arcam. You can offset some of the sidewall reflections by toeing them in slightly but obviously its good to avoid the sidewalls if at all possible.

How far back are you sitting? How far apart are the speakers from each other?

I'm well aware that most all speakers sound better when set a couple feet from the wall behind them, but this simply isn't possible for me. I'm not setting up a system for recreating acoustical environments like orchestral halls. I used to do things like put those triangular "pillows" in the corners of my ceiling paint my CD's edges with the green pen, but I'm past all that. I want a "very good" sounding stereo/HT setup that blends into my living room. Sub/sat combo's simply can't please me. Most movies and "rock/pop" music is made in a studio and processed through computers. I just want the best "full" sounding speakers within my budget to put in the only spots I have for speakers.

The speakers will be about 6 ft. apart and I'll be about 13 ft. from them. I can give them a little toe-in, but not much.

A new member here is selling me a pair of B4's that are a couple years old for $250/shipped. They should arrive this week. I'll let you all know what I think of them
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