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rogannz's Avatar rogannz 10:52 PM 06-12-2014
Bit of help please.

I've bought a RC-10 centre from a shop that closed down. I've always wanted a Klipsch speaker system after having an audio nirvana moment with a pair of Klipsch floorstanders about 15 years ago in an audio shop I was visiting. Getting the RC10 kicked me off so I've bought RB51ii and have just finished hanging them.

The question I have is should I rush out and get the RC52 to match the RB51s or will the RC10 give me a similar sound. $$ difference isn't a big issue. I emailed Klipsch a few days ago with this question but no reply.

System is 99% for movies. Marantz NR1403 amp, SVS PB12 NSD sub, reasonably large upstairs lounge. LCR speakers mounted high (like 12 foot) off the ground and lowering them is not an option. Movie are Pixar / Dreamworks and the like (kids under 10 yrs movies)

tomtastic's Avatar tomtastic 10:59 PM 06-12-2014
I run RP-5's front, RC 25 center RP-3's rear, I've got a pair of JBL's on the side, then a KSW-15 rear sub. Pioneer VSX-53 AVR. I need to get started on my DIY sub.
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 12:12 AM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by krozman View Post
Ok so I got my speakers today. (for those who don't want to scroll up a few pages, 62ii floorstanding mains, RC 62ii center, four RB51ii surrounds). The surrounds are really a huge improvement over what I had. The floorstanding speakers are a lot smaller than my Cerwin Vega D9's, but honestly not the drastic improvement I was hoping for. The vegas do music way better still even for a 40 year old speaker so i'll just have to suck that up. The center channel speaker was .....heh....bigger than I expected. Center and the receiver doesn't fit, so as soon as my Denon X3100W is released I'm probably going for an architectural redesign.
I had a pair of Cerwin-Vega AT12s through high school and college. Man, I loved those speakers!
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 12:16 AM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogannz View Post
Bit of help please.

I've bought a RC-10 centre from a shop that closed down. I've always wanted a Klipsch speaker system after having an audio nirvana moment with a pair of Klipsch floorstanders about 15 years ago in an audio shop I was visiting. Getting the RC10 kicked me off so I've bought RB51ii and have just finished hanging them.

The question I have is should I rush out and get the RC52 to match the RB51s or will the RC10 give me a similar sound. $$ difference isn't a big issue. I emailed Klipsch a few days ago with this question but no reply.

System is 99% for movies. Marantz NR1403 amp, SVS PB12 NSD sub, reasonably large upstairs lounge. LCR speakers mounted high (like 12 foot) off the ground and lowering them is not an option. Movie are Pixar / Dreamworks and the like (kids under 10 yrs movies)
The RC52 will match better, but considering your RB51s are 12 feet above the ground and you can't move 'em, you're getting no where near the optimal performance out of them. In other words, the difference between the RC10 and the RC52 is nothing compared to your layout issue. Save your money and keep the RC10.
rogannz's Avatar rogannz 12:37 AM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
The RC52 will match better, but considering your RB51s are 12 feet above the ground and you can't move 'em, you're getting no where near the optimal performance out of them. In other words, the difference between the RC10 and the RC52 is nothing compared to your layout issue. Save your money and keep the RC10.
Just measured, bottom of speaker is 9ft off floor - not that it changes your point at all. Thanks for the reply, a good bit of common sense
blue13x's Avatar blue13x 01:50 AM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
125 WPC is enough to get u way over a ear-damaging loudnesslevel
Is this with an extrrnal amp? What do you suggest?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Melquiades's Avatar Melquiades 05:49 AM 06-13-2014
I am going to mount my rs's to the wall behind the listening position. Is there a way to find the proper distance between the speakers? Or is there an angle from the main listening position that I want?

Thanks!
baloo_btru's Avatar baloo_btru 08:03 AM 06-13-2014
Hey guys,

Is there any sort of "optimal distance" I should look for when considering my speaker placement?

Recently while playing around I moved my speakers further out from the back wall and it opened up the sound significantly and sounded warmer to me. I'm thinking of moving closer to that position for the MLP, but my concern is that for people sitting closer to the screen it will be only 6-7' max from the speakers.

Is that too close? I'm probably going to focus on the MLP and just move it forward because it really was a significant difference.

Side note: I'll also probably move the sub a little further away from the wall (its a couple inches now) which will decrease SPL but should make for a flatter response. I only had about an hour to play with my new toy (REW) but once I get some time it should be a blast
krozman's Avatar krozman 08:55 AM 06-13-2014
A lot of speaker setups are so dependent on your room acoustics and personal preferences it's probably better advice to just try out different things and see what hears best. Remember that you don't necessarily have to move the speakers to adjust volume. That can also be done on the receiver level. Few hours rubbing your eyebrows off one speaker channel at a time is the way to do it.
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 11:47 AM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melquiades View Post
I am going to mount my rs's to the wall behind the listening position. Is there a way to find the proper distance between the speakers? Or is there an angle from the main listening position that I want?

Thanks!
This is a good starting point. I think DTS has recommendations also and I know there's a recommended layout image in my Denons' owners manuals.

*EDIT* - added an Onkyo one too...




Attached: 71-copy.jpg (150.0 KB)  audyssey-diagLG-1.jpg (195.0 KB) 
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 11:49 AM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogannz View Post
Just measured, bottom of speaker is 9ft off floor - not that it changes your point at all. Thanks for the reply, a good bit of common sense
TBH I'd probably get the RC52II anyway since it'll "match" (meaning it'll look more like a "set") the RB51IIs better.
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 12:07 PM 06-13-2014
Well, well, well -- look what just arrived!


Attached: IMG_0925.jpg (47.0 KB) 
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 12:15 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Well, well, well -- look what just arrived!
the cat ?
Melquiades's Avatar Melquiades 12:15 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
This is a good starting point. I think DTS has recommendations also and I know there's a recommended layout image in my Denons' owners manuals.

*EDIT* - added an Onkyo one too...



Thank you!
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 12:17 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue13x View Post
Is this with an external amp? What do you suggest?
it's from the avr u have.. i suggest u keep it like it is, it's more then sufficient.
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 12:19 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melquiades View Post
Thank you!
put the sides to 110 degrees (center of the side-speaker) , it'll work for both DTS and DD as the correct angle for the speaker. 10cm above MLP ear-height
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 12:23 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
the cat ?
Yeah, right.

I gotta go for a 9-mile run then it's speaker-hangin' time!
ellisr63's Avatar ellisr63 12:23 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
put the sides to 110 degrees (center of the side-speaker) , it'll work for both DTS and DD as the correct angle for the speaker. 10cm above MLP ear-height
10cm above MLP ears height for the tweeter, or the bottom of the speaker? I was planning on putting mine almost at soffit height and angling them downward...
Melquiades's Avatar Melquiades 12:24 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
put the sides to 110 degrees (center of the side-speaker) , it'll work for both DTS and DD as the correct angle for the speaker. 10cm above MLP ear-height
Thanks, dajojo!
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 12:24 PM 06-13-2014
so i had time today to hang my side-surround speaker to a normal height and adjusted some trims... this was very beneficial to the overal sound in my room.

Attached: 2014-06-13 18.15.34.jpg (97.2 KB) 
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 12:26 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
10cm above MLP ears height for the tweeter, or the bottom of the speaker? I was planning on putting mine almost at soffit height and angling them downward...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melquiades View Post
Thanks, dajojo!
that is from the middle/center of the speaker. if you put them above this height and angle them downwards then make sure the middle/center of the speaker is pointed towards 10cm above the ear on MLP
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 12:37 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
that is from the middle/center of the speaker. if you put them above this height and angle them downwards then make sure the middle/center of the speaker is pointed towards 10cm above the ear on MLP
Hmmm, not sure where you're getting this recommendation from. A link would be nice unless, of course, you're simply extracting it from your rectum.

Here's what Crutchfield says:

Surround speakers
Your surround speakers are meant to envelop you in a cloud of atmospheric sound and special effects, so you feel like you're actually in the middle of the action unfolding on your TV.

In a 5.1-channel system, surround speakers are best placed to the left and right of your listening position — either in line with it, or just behind it. If side placement isn't practical in your room, place your surround speakers behind your listening position, facing front. Either way, place the speakers high enough so that the drivers don’t fire directly at your ears, around ear level while standing.

Wall mounting is often a great option for surround speakers. You'll need to mount the speakers to a stud, or use wall anchors.


In addition, a cursory search will show that about 6' from the floor is the commonly-accepted surround speaker height.

Here's another recommendation that says basically the same thing.
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 12:44 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Hmmm, not sure where you're getting this recommendation from. Here's what Crutchfield says:
Surround speakers
Your surround speakers are meant to envelop you in a cloud of atmospheric sound and special effects, so you feel like you're actually in the middle of the action unfolding on your TV.
In a 5.1-channel system, surround speakers are best placed to the left and right of your listening position — either in line with it, or just behind it. If side placement isn't practical in your room, place your surround speakers behind your listening position, facing front. Either way, place the speakers high enough so that the drivers don’t fire directly at your ears, around ear level while standing.
Wall mounting is often a great option for surround speakers. You'll need to mount the speakers to a stud, or use wall anchors.

In addition, a cursory search will show that about 6' from the floor is the commonly-accepted surround speaker height.
well that is if u use old formats like dolby pro-logic, not if u want to have nice DTS,DTS-MA,DD,DD+, and other new formats to sound good. for setups like 9.1/2 ,11.1/2 with audyssey/yamaha/atmos/auro-3D heights it is totally not advisable that u have the side-speakers on 6' (feet ?) height.
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 12:58 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
well that is if u use old formats like dolby pro-logic, not if u want to have nice DTS,DTS-MA,DD,DD+, and other new formats to sound good. for setups like 9.1/2 ,11.1/2 with audyssey/yamaha/atmos/auro-3D heights it is totally not advisable that u have the side-speakers on 6' (feet ?) height.
Here's another reference, this time from THX. They recommend that surround speakers be placed "at least two feet above the listener." Of note is that they recommend this speaker positioning for the 7.1 speaker layout scheme, so they're obviously talking about modern discrete surround-sound formats.

I guess you're implying that you know better than THX, Crutchfield, and many, many others? I doubt it.

Let me put this plainly -- and no offense intended -- but YOU ARE WRONG. Stop posting dubious information, and if you are gonna post recommendations, please back them up with links.
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 01:00 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Here's another reference, this time from THX. They recommend "at least two feet above the listener." They recommend this speaker position for the 7.1 speaker layout scheme, so they're obviously talking about modern discrete surround-sound formats.
I guess you're implying that you know better than THX, Crutchfield, and many, many others? I doubt it.
Let me put this plainly -- and no offense intended -- but YOU ARE WRONG. Stop posting dubious information, and if you are gonna post recommendations, please back them up with links.
i am not.. check the dolby and dts website for correct speakerplacement and not the last century thx website which requires u have a thx system and thx speakers.
Louis Bartay's Avatar Louis Bartay 01:02 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Hmmm, not sure where you're getting this recommendation from. A link would be nice unless, of course, you're simply extracting it from your rectum.

Here's what Crutchfield says:

Surround speakers
Your surround speakers are meant to envelop you in a cloud of atmospheric sound and special effects, so you feel like you're actually in the middle of the action unfolding on your TV.

In a 5.1-channel system, surround speakers are best placed to the left and right of your listening position — either in line with it, or just behind it. If side placement isn't practical in your room, place your surround speakers behind your listening position, facing front. Either way, place the speakers high enough so that the drivers don’t fire directly at your ears, around ear level while standing.

Wall mounting is often a great option for surround speakers. You'll need to mount the speakers to a stud, or use wall anchors.


In addition, a cursory search will show that about 6' from the floor is the commonly-accepted surround speaker height.

Here's another recommendation that says basically the same thing.


I read something like that too a few years ago and used that as a baseline for mounting my rears for my 5.2 up near my 8' ceiling.............. I also was advised (Omnimout Tech Support) to purchase wall mounts that are rated 2X more then what the speaker weighs. I had to use sheet rock anchors that go thru the wall and butterfly out and snug up. I also mounted a DIY 3/4" plywood wall shelf just above my 55" flat screen for a heavy C7 center speaker. So don't be afraid to use these thru the wall anchors. If a stud had been there oh hell yes.
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 01:06 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Bartay View Post
I read something like that too a few years ago and used that as a baseline for mounting my rears for my 5.2 up near my 8' ceiling.............. I also was advised (Omnimout Tech Support) to purchase wall mounts that are rated 2X more then what the speaker weighs. I had to use sheet rock anchors that go thru the wall and butterfly out and snug up. I also mounted a DIY 3/4" plywood wall shelf just above my 55" flat screen for a heavy C7 center speaker. So don't be afraid to use these thru the wall anchors. If a stud had been there oh hell yes.
only if u have adjustable mounts that tilt. mounts that don't tilt do fine within boundaries of the weight they can handle.
a good wall-anchor can handle a lot of load .. see here http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/i...infanchor.html
Schwa's Avatar Schwa 01:13 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
i am not.. check the dolby and dts website for correct speakerplacement and not the last century thx website which requires u have a thx system and thx speakers.
Are you completely daft? "Last century?" That's cute, considering that THX posted recommendations for 5.1 and 7.1 layouts -- and 7.1 layouts, in particular, are definitely not "last century." But hey, whatever, you're the expert.

Oh, thanks for the links you provided to the Dolby and DTS recommendations.

Regardless, here's another link for ya, this time right out of the Denon owner's manual. I know you know better than them, but let me point out that they mention Audyssey DSX in the setup notes, so at least we know this isn't "last-century."



Aw, what the heck, here's another recommendation from B&W -- they recommend "60cm above listening position when seated," just like Denon.

At this point, I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine the correct surround speaker height based on the information I've provided.
Attached: 11.x speaker layout via Denon Manual.JPG (77.4 KB) 
DaJoJo's Avatar DaJoJo 01:21 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Are you completely daft? "Last century?" That's cute, considering that THX posted recommendations for 5.1 and 7.1 layouts -- and 7.1, in particular, are definitely not "last century." But hey, whatever, you're the expert. Oh, thanks for the links you provided to the Dolby and DTS recommendations. :roll eyes:
Regardless, here's another link for ya, this time right out of the Denon owner's manual. I know you know better than them, but let me point out that they mention Audyssey DSX in the setup notes, so at least we know his isn't last-century.
At this point, I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine the correct surround speaker height based on the information I've provided.
yup... pro logic..
now add to the fronts (which are 20cm lower for my ears, i have a low couch and am tall) a 2 ft which is 66cm and u get a 46cm difference which differs about 26cm from my advise. and again its for dolby II and not for dts , thx and DD. so to fill the gap and have all formats sound ok it works fine using the 10cm above the ear. so i say about 10-30cm above the ear works fine.
MSchu18's Avatar MSchu18 01:35 PM 06-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Well, well, well -- look what just arrived!


congratulations... and ENJOY!
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