Klipsch owner thread - Page 1229 - AVS Forum
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post #36841 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 11:30 AM
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Some movies are louder. You can't just crank it to 0 every movie and think that's reference. If that's what you do then your over driving your amp and speakers in some movies. If you want reference is every movie you will need to take some measurements before.
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post #36842 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 01:25 PM
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Have you calibrated your system? Reference speakers should do Reference-level with ease.

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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post #36843 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
Are you sure nothing is wrong with the Denon? Seems suspicious to me given the number of tweeters you've blown.

Also, you may not hear clipping. When clipping, the waveform could become more square-wave like and introduce very high frequencies that can damage a tweeter. A good amp will have clipping indicators on the front, but I've never seen an AVR that does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
I do agree somewhat on maybe that i'm driving the amp too hard. How exactly can I tell if I am? Is there a safe range in volume, for movies i'd like to stick with reference but I also notice that some movies sound louder than others too.
Yeah I figured a year ago to just bite the bullet and pay $2,500.00 for this Denon 4520CI. I'm confident that it's performing like it should. My only idea is that since I like to play movies loud then maybe i'm just frying my gear. After many upgrades everything's been holding great. Swapping these HT speakers to Klipsch was the first time in a long while that i've upgraded anything. They look and sound just how I wanted the HT speakers to be. i'll probably change this tweeter and try my best to not over do it on the volume. If I blow any other tweeters then worst case i'll just swap them out for the next level up in the Reference line and see how that goes.
I can't believe you paid list for the AVR-4520. NO ONE pays list. You must have more money than you know what to do with! Next time try calling AVS or one of the other forum sponsors; you'll be very surprised you can save on electronics and speakers.

I think at this point you'll only see very incremental gains by continuing to upgrade your equipment -- without a doubt it is up to the task of performing to a very high standard. IMHO your next step would be room treatments, working on a dedicated space, and/or getting all of that nice equipment out of your bedroom!

Last edited by Schwa; 06-15-2014 at 02:13 PM.
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post #36844 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
Are you sure nothing is wrong with the Denon? Seems suspicious to me given the number of tweeters you've blown.

Also, you may not hear clipping. When clipping, the waveform could become more square-wave like and introduce very high frequencies that can damage a tweeter. A good amp will have clipping indicators on the front, but I've never seen an AVR that does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
I do agree somewhat on maybe that i'm driving the amp too hard. How exactly can I tell if I am? Is there a safe range in volume, for movies i'd like to stick with reference but I also notice that some movies sound louder than others too.
Yeah I figured a year ago to just bite the bullet and pay $2,500.00 for this Denon 4520CI. I'm confident that it's performing like it should. My only idea is that since I like to play movies loud then maybe i'm just frying my gear. After many upgrades everything's been holding great. Swapping these HT speakers to Klipsch was the first time in a long while that i've upgraded anything. They look and sound just how I wanted the HT speakers to be. i'll probably change this tweeter and try my best to not over do it on the volume. If I blow any other tweeters then worst case i'll just swap them out for the next level up in the Reference line and see how that goes.
I can't believe you paid list for the AVR-4520. NO ONE pays list. You must have more money than you know what to do with! Next time try calling AVS or one of the other forum sponsors; you'll be very surprised you can save on electronics and speakers.

I think at this point you'll only see very incremental gains by continuing to upgrade your equipment -- without a doubt it is up to the task of performing to a very high standard. IMHO your next step would be room treatments, working on a dedicated space, and/or getting all of that nice equipment out of your bedroom!
,

I bought that receiver shortly after it came out, offcourse now you can get it cheaper plus i've got thousands in deals with my other equipment. Like with these Klipsch I got $1,200.00 off for the set of 5. I can't take anything out of my room, how will I sleep? lol. Sounds like if I ran an external amp that was rated for more than I need then I would'nt blow any tweeters right? With clean power and playback then the speakers should perform to what they're rated to do. Me personally I think it's a waste to spend a bunch of time and money on a setup and not have a little fun with it. It's like when I see people driving fast cars and never push the gas. I don't mean in a wreckless way it's just the way I see things.

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post #36845 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
Are you sure nothing is wrong with the Denon? Seems suspicious to me given the number of tweeters you've blown.

Also, you may not hear clipping. When clipping, the waveform could become more square-wave like and introduce very high frequencies that can damage a tweeter. A good amp will have clipping indicators on the front, but I've never seen an AVR that does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
I do agree somewhat on maybe that i'm driving the amp too hard. How exactly can I tell if I am? Is there a safe range in volume, for movies i'd like to stick with reference but I also notice that some movies sound louder than others too.
Yeah I figured a year ago to just bite the bullet and pay $2,500.00 for this Denon 4520CI. I'm confident that it's performing like it should. My only idea is that since I like to play movies loud then maybe i'm just frying my gear. After many upgrades everything's been holding great. Swapping these HT speakers to Klipsch was the first time in a long while that i've upgraded anything. They look and sound just how I wanted the HT speakers to be. i'll probably change this tweeter and try my best to not over do it on the volume. If I blow any other tweeters then worst case i'll just swap them out for the next level up in the Reference line and see how that goes.
Something is wrong. I've blown tweeters but never Klipsch. I've played movies so loud I had to have a fan on the AVR to keep it from shutting down. The cabinets on my KG 3.5s (now retired -- waiting for space to put them back into service as rear surrounds) rattled apart before I blew tweeters. I'm under powering my current center (RF64ii) at 100w and over powering my mains (RF7ii) at 300w each. We regularly play content up to where the amp shows clipping.
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post #36846 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilort View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
Are you sure nothing is wrong with the Denon? Seems suspicious to me given the number of tweeters you've blown.

Also, you may not hear clipping. When clipping, the waveform could become more square-wave like and introduce very high frequencies that can damage a tweeter. A good amp will have clipping indicators on the front, but I've never seen an AVR that does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
I do agree somewhat on maybe that i'm driving the amp too hard. How exactly can I tell if I am? Is there a safe range in volume, for movies i'd like to stick with reference but I also notice that some movies sound louder than others too.
Yeah I figured a year ago to just bite the bullet and pay $2,500.00 for this Denon 4520CI. I'm confident that it's performing like it should. My only idea is that since I like to play movies loud then maybe i'm just frying my gear. After many upgrades everything's been holding great. Swapping these HT speakers to Klipsch was the first time in a long while that i've upgraded anything. They look and sound just how I wanted the HT speakers to be. i'll probably change this tweeter and try my best to not over do it on the volume. If I blow any other tweeters then worst case i'll just swap them out for the next level up in the Reference line and see how that goes.
Something is wrong. I've blown tweeters but never Klipsch. I've played movies so loud I had to have a fan on the AVR to keep it from shutting down. The cabinets on my KG 3.5s (now retired -- waiting for space to put them back into service as rear surrounds) rattled apart before I blew tweeters. I'm under powering my current center (RF64ii) at 100w and over powering my mains (RF7ii) at 300w each. We regularly play content up to where the amp shows clipping.
The only thing I can think of is that this particular movie had nonstop, insane chaotic scenes. The recording was made very well and pretty intense. It had the most gun fights and helicopter sounds that i've ever seen. I've tried scenes in other movies and these Reference have been sounding great. The center has been awesome with dialogue, very large sounstage and clear voices. They've all been playing very clear and no distortion heard by ear. I'm not going to lie I mean I made me a setup to have so that I can get movies to sound intense because where we live they have the worst theaters. It's a small town and you can't even feel any bass and the volume at ours theaters is so low it's sad. So far when we watch movies in my room you can't even compare the experience. I could keep adding and upgrading but id really like to stick with these Klipsch so that I can build a real setup in the future. This is just to have some fun when im off work so me and my siblings can have movie nights together.

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post #36847 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilort View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
Are you sure nothing is wrong with the Denon? Seems suspicious to me given the number of tweeters you've blown.

Also, you may not hear clipping. When clipping, the waveform could become more square-wave like and introduce very high frequencies that can damage a tweeter. A good amp will have clipping indicators on the front, but I've never seen an AVR that does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
I do agree somewhat on maybe that i'm driving the amp too hard. How exactly can I tell if I am? Is there a safe range in volume, for movies i'd like to stick with reference but I also notice that some movies sound louder than others too.
Yeah I figured a year ago to just bite the bullet and pay $2,500.00 for this Denon 4520CI. I'm confident that it's performing like it should. My only idea is that since I like to play movies loud then maybe i'm just frying my gear. After many upgrades everything's been holding great. Swapping these HT speakers to Klipsch was the first time in a long while that i've upgraded anything. They look and sound just how I wanted the HT speakers to be. i'll probably change this tweeter and try my best to not over do it on the volume. If I blow any other tweeters then worst case i'll just swap them out for the next level up in the Reference line and see how that goes.
Something is wrong. I've blown tweeters but never Klipsch. I've played movies so loud I had to have a fan on the AVR to keep it from shutting down. The cabinets on my KG 3.5s (now retired -- waiting for space to put them back into service as rear surrounds) rattled apart before I blew tweeters. I'm under powering my current center (RF64ii) at 100w and over powering my mains (RF7ii) at 300w each. We regularly play content up to where the amp shows clipping.
Maybe something was wrong; i.e. the tweeter was bad from the get-go and it finally failed. IMHO it's better to try simply replacing the tweeter and see if the problem recurs than to throw good money away before you really know what the problem is. Besides, I think given the equipment that Blackmamba already has, he'd derive a lot more benefit by setting up a dedicated room (or using a space other than his bedroom) and installing acoustic treatments than to continue to upgrade components for what would be, at this point, a very marginal increase in performance.

I've known other folks who've set up their systems in their bedroom only to move them later once the equipment started to "exceed the capabilities" of the room. Rather than upgrading at this point, I was merely suggesting that that's something Blackmamba might want to look into (assuming, of course, that there are other rooms in his house that are better suited to an HT setup or acoustic treatments).

I'm planning to eventually add an outboard amp to my AVR-4520CI, but only when I have more than nine speakers and my Denon can no longer drive them all. I've yet to feel that the amplification capabilities of my receiver have been exceeded.

Last edited by Schwa; 06-15-2014 at 04:36 PM.
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post #36848 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
I could keep adding and upgrading but id really like to stick with these Klipsch so that I can build a real setup in the future. This is just to have some fun when im off work so me and my siblings can have movie nights together.
Hmmm...how is your setup not a "real" setup? I think many people would be very happy to have the setup you have.
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post #36849 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
I could keep adding and upgrading but id really like to stick with these Klipsch so that I can build a real setup in the future. This is just to have some fun when im off work so me and my siblings can have movie nights together.
Hmmm...how is your setup not a "real" setup? I think many people would be very happy to have the setup you have.
What I meant is like what everyones saying, to have a treated room and the whole 9 yards. The problem is that when I moved here a couple years ago we got a nice house by the mountains but we are renting because me and my brothers came here just for work. I wanted to make a setup in my bedroom because it's the best place in this house, it's seperated by being in thebasement so it's more dark and sealed. Everyone else has their own rooms and setups and the living room upstairs is too small plus we have cats and dogs so I keep everything seperated so it stays brand new looking. Basically I had an idea to make a cool setup for movie nights but this was my first HT setup so once I started buying everything I made alot of mistakes because I knew nothing. I think now though my room is prety much how I pictured id want it so I feel like im so close to just enjoying it without having to change more things. Tomorrow im going to have a replacement tweeter sent and just put it in. Hopefully everything stays sounding awesome because I really like these speakers.
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post #36850 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
I could keep adding and upgrading but id really like to stick with these Klipsch so that I can build a real setup in the future. This is just to have some fun when im off work so me and my siblings can have movie nights together.
Hmmm...how is your setup not a "real" setup? I think many people would be very happy to have the setup you have.
What I meant is like what everyones saying, to have a treated room and the whole 9 yards. The problem is that when I moved here a couple years ago we got a nice house by the mountains but we are renting because me and my brothers came here just for work. I wanted to make a setup in my bedroom because it's the best place in this house, it's seperated by being in thebasement so it's more dark and sealed. Everyone else has their own rooms and setups and the living room upstairs is too small plus we have cats and dogs so I keep everything seperated so it stays brand new looking. Basically I had an idea to make a cool setup for movie nights but this was my first HT setup so once I started buying everything I made alot of mistakes because I knew nothing. I think now though my room is prety much how I pictured id want it so I feel like im so close to just enjoying it without having to change more things. Tomorrow im going to have a replacement tweeter sent and just put it in. Hopefully everything stays sounding awesome because I really like these speakers.
I'm sure your AVR can play test tones so you can set speaker trim. Maybe there are directions in the manual that tells you how to set the speaker trims. All because the volume is set to 0db doesn't mean you are playing Reference-level. Does your AVR have Auto Room Correction on it? If not, go to Radio Shack and pick up a SPL meter. It's around $50. This way you can calibrate your system and stop blowing tweeters.

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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post #36851 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
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Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post
I could keep adding and upgrading but id really like to stick with these Klipsch so that I can build a real setup in the future. This is just to have some fun when im off work so me and my siblings can have movie nights together.
Hmmm...how is your setup not a "real" setup? I think many people would be very happy to have the setup you have.
What I meant is like what everyones saying, to have a treated room and the whole 9 yards. The problem is that when I moved here a couple years ago we got a nice house by the mountains but we are renting because me and my brothers came here just for work. I wanted to make a setup in my bedroom because it's the best place in this house, it's seperated by being in thebasement so it's more dark and sealed. Everyone else has their own rooms and setups and the living room upstairs is too small plus we have cats and dogs so I keep everything seperated so it stays brand new looking. Basically I had an idea to make a cool setup for movie nights but this was my first HT setup so once I started buying everything I made alot of mistakes because I knew nothing. I think now though my room is prety much how I pictured id want it so I feel like im so close to just enjoying it without having to change more things. Tomorrow im going to have a replacement tweeter sent and just put it in. Hopefully everything stays sounding awesome because I really like these speakers.
I'm sure your AVR can play test tones so you can set speaker trim. Maybe there are directions in the manual that tells you how to set the speaker trims. All because the volume is set to 0db doesn't mean you are playing Reference-level. Does your AVR have Auto Room Correction on it? If not, go to Radio Shack and pick up a SPL meter. It's around $50. This way you can calibrate your system and stop blowing tweeters.
Well i just run the Audyssey XT32 calibration setup, it does everything even dual sub EQ. Supposedly it's a good EQ program, I know that after I run it things really sound good.
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post #36852 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 06:07 PM
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Hey blackie... it's distortion that blows drivers.

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post #36853 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 06:33 PM
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XT32/Sub EQ with dual Triax's will be awesome. I use Audyssey Pro via a Marantz AV8801 with Sub EQ and dual Klipsch RT-12d's. The improvement with versus without Audyssey was dramatic for me.

Finding a used Audyssey Pro kit might be worth it for your system. The kit better optimizes the crossover frequencies for each channel, offers more calibration points, etc...

[quote=Blackmambakila;24994506][quote=Mongo171;24993682]
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Well i just run the Audyssey XT32 calibration setup, it does everything even dual sub EQ. Supposedly it's a good EQ program, I know that after I run it things really sound good.
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post #36854 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 06:50 PM
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[quote=etc6849;24995042]XT32/Sub EQ with dual Triax's will be awesome. I use Audyssey Pro via a Marantz AV8801 with Sub EQ and dual Klipsch RT-12d's. The improvement with versus without Audyssey was dramatic for me.

Finding a used Audyssey Pro kit might be worth it for your system. The kit better optimizes the crossover frequencies for each channel, offers more calibration points, etc...

[quote=Blackmambakila;24994506]
Quote:
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Well i just run the Audyssey XT32 calibration setup, it does everything even dual sub EQ. Supposedly it's a good EQ program, I know that after I run it things really sound good.
How does that pro kit work? it's something I can use with my Denon 4520CI receiver? that sounds like I good idea
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post #36855 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 06:52 PM
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Hey blackie... it's distortion that blows drivers.
That means when I turn up the volume to much then my receiver's internal amp is driving too hard and blew the tweeter. Hmm this makes sense, man I guess i'll have to be easy on everything for now. It's so tempting though to push these speakers
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post #36856 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 07:04 PM
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Possibly, but he says in a different post that he also blew his B&W tweeters too. It seems highly unlikely he happened to buy so many defective tweeters, but maybe he used a different AVR back then?

I would highly suspect the Denon, but nothing's wrong with getting a free tweeter from Klipsch and seeing if that fixes the problem. Maybe order a spare at the same time just in case?

I have several reference speakers (RF-83's) and have driven them pretty loud before (over 100dB), never having any issues. For my La Scala II's I use -15dB XLR pads I soldered, so I don't think I could hurt them with my ATI AT2007 200W amp if I tried. I also rely on Audyssey to set the speaker levels (the pads are so speaker levels in the preamp are close to 0), but with the volume dial on the AV8801 reading 0dB, this still may not be reference level.

I rarely listen to content above 85dB's as I have measured the average SPL. I agree the blackmamba needs to buy an SPL meter and report back what his listening habits are. Remember a blu-ray can have huge dynamic range, so when something loud happens, if you were at 100dB's for a soft scene, your AVR may clip and damage something when there's a gun shot.

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Maybe something was wrong; i.e. the tweeter was bad from the get-go and it finally failed. IMHO it's better to try simply replacing the tweeter and see if the problem recurs than to throw good money away before you really know what the problem is.


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post #36857 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 07:24 PM
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I could keep adding and upgrading but id really like to stick with these Klipsch so that I can build a real setup in the future. This is just to have some fun when im off work so me and my siblings can have movie nights together.
Hmmm...how is your setup not a "real" setup? I think many people would be very happy to have the setup you have.
What I meant is like what everyones saying, to have a treated room and the whole 9 yards. The problem is that when I moved here a couple years ago we got a nice house by the mountains but we are renting because me and my brothers came here just for work. I wanted to make a setup in my bedroom because it's the best place in this house, it's seperated by being in thebasement so it's more dark and sealed. Everyone else has their own rooms and setups and the living room upstairs is too small plus we have cats and dogs so I keep everything seperated so it stays brand new looking. Basically I had an idea to make a cool setup for movie nights but this was my first HT setup so once I started buying everything I made alot of mistakes because I knew nothing. I think now though my room is prety much how I pictured id want it so I feel like im so close to just enjoying it without having to change more things. Tomorrow im going to have a replacement tweeter sent and just put it in. Hopefully everything stays sounding awesome because I really like these speakers.
Sounds like a plan! Good luck; I'm sure the new tweeter will help. If you still have problems with blowing speakers, I think the next step would be checking out the receiver for problems and/or buying something like an Emotiva XPA-3, but that's just me.

FWIW the big reason to go with Audyssey Pro is so you can create custom equalization curves. The crossovers in the speakers are already sending just the higher frequencies to your tweeters, so even if you use Audyssey to change your crossover, trim, or equalization settings, your tweeters will still be getting just the high frequencies.

As was mentioned, distortion (or overpowering, but not likely in this case) is what causes tweeters to blow. I'd still be pretty surprised if the amp actually clipped enough to kill a tweeter, but it's possible I suppose if you were driving your speakers really, really hard. And the fact that you've blown the B&Ws before does indicate that maybe something wonky is going on.

Again, I'd recommend what you're already doing; namely, try a new tweeter and see if the problem happens again. If it does, then it's time to see if something is wrong with your receiver and/or consider a dedicated power amp for your front three speakers. The Denon can output more than 120 Wpc into 8 ohms with five channels driven simultaneously, so if it's performing up to snuff, you really shouldn't have a problem.
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post #36858 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 07:49 PM
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yup... pro logic..
now add to the fronts (which are 20cm lower for my ears, i have a low couch and am tall) a 2 ft which is 66cm and u get a 46cm difference which differs about 26cm from my advise. and again its for dolby II and not for dts , thx and DD. so to fill the gap and have all formats sound ok it works fine using the 10cm above the ear. so i say about 10-30cm above the ear works fine.
Congrats for today soccer gamem against Spain!!! You guys played amazing match!!! You frooze Spain country tonight for sure!!!! Great match!!!
yeah thnx, they did a formidable job indeed. looks like our new team is finally top notch again. allthough im no soccer fan im happy they won

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post #36859 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 07:58 PM
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Possibly, but he says in a different post that he also blew his B&W tweeters too. It seems highly unlikely he happened to buy so many defective tweeters, but maybe he used a different AVR back then?

I would highly suspect the Denon, but nothing's wrong with getting a free tweeter from Klipsch and seeing if that fixes the problem. Maybe order a spare at the same time just in case?

I have several reference speakers (RF-83's) and have driven them pretty loud before (over 100dB), never having any issues. For my La Scala II's I use -15dB XLR pads I soldered, so I don't think I could hurt them with my ATI AT2007 200W amp if I tried. I also rely on Audyssey to set the speaker levels (the pads are so speaker levels in the preamp are close to 0), but with the volume dial on the AV8801 reading 0dB, this still may not be reference level.

I rarely listen to content above 85dB's as I have measured the average SPL. I agree the blackmamba needs to buy an SPL meter and report back what his listening habits are. Remember a blu-ray can have huge dynamic range, so when something loud happens, if you were at 100dB's for a soft scene, your AVR may clip and damage something when there's a gun shot.

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Maybe something was wrong; i.e. the tweeter was bad from the get-go and it finally failed. IMHO it's better to try simply replacing the tweeter and see if the problem recurs than to throw good money away before you really know what the problem is.

I have a radio shack digital SPL meter and even all the REW measuring gear. Normally I don't play my setup too often so when I fire it up for a big movie that's been released, me and the fam are always amped up so I usually play it loud just to knock our socks off lol. Like for example when the new 300 movie comes out on bluray in a week i'll be pumping that one up, we've been waiting so long. Or like with World War Z I had it pretty loud. I'm afriad though once Godzilla comes out on bluray i'll probably fry everything . We purposely don't go to the theaters so when something big comes out on bluray we get excited, (sorry we live in a boring city lol).
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post #36860 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 07:59 PM
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I could keep adding and upgrading but id really like to stick with these Klipsch so that I can build a real setup in the future. This is just to have some fun when im off work so me and my siblings can have movie nights together.
Hmmm...how is your setup not a "real" setup? I think many people would be very happy to have the setup you have.
What I meant is like what everyones saying, to have a treated room and the whole 9 yards. The problem is that when I moved here a couple years ago we got a nice house by the mountains but we are renting because me and my brothers came here just for work. I wanted to make a setup in my bedroom because it's the best place in this house, it's seperated by being in thebasement so it's more dark and sealed. Everyone else has their own rooms and setups and the living room upstairs is too small plus we have cats and dogs so I keep everything seperated so it stays brand new looking. Basically I had an idea to make a cool setup for movie nights but this was my first HT setup so once I started buying everything I made alot of mistakes because I knew nothing. I think now though my room is prety much how I pictured id want it so I feel like im so close to just enjoying it without having to change more things. Tomorrow im going to have a replacement tweeter sent and just put it in. Hopefully everything stays sounding awesome because I really like these speakers.
Sounds like a plan! Good luck; I'm sure the new tweeter will help. If you still have problems with blowing speakers, I think the next step would be checking out the receiver for problems and/or buying something like an Emotiva XPA-3, but that's just me.

FWIW the big reason to go with Audyssey Pro is so you can create custom equalization curves. The crossovers in the speakers are already sending just the higher frequencies to your tweeters, so even if you use Audyssey to change your crossover, trim, or equalization settings, your tweeters will still be getting just the high frequencies.

As was mentioned, distortion (or overpowering, but not likely in this case) is what causes tweeters to blow. I'd still be pretty surprised if the amp actually clipped enough to kill a tweeter, but it's possible I suppose if you were driving your speakers really, really hard. And the fact that you've blown the B&Ws before does indicate that maybe something wonky is going on.

Again, I'd recommend what you're already doing; namely, try a new tweeter and see if the problem happens again. If it does, then it's time to see if something is wrong with your receiver and/or consider a dedicated power amp for your front three speakers. The Denon can output more than 120 Wpc into 8 ohms with five channels driven simultaneously, so if it's performing up to snuff, you really shouldn't have a problem.
Thanks for the advice. Yeah when I took the tweeter out of the RC-62 II, I noticed it was pretty beefy, big magnet

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post #36861 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 08:02 PM
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Atmos for my room would require 15 additional speakers over the 7.1 I already have. I thought 13.2 was the maximum level of crazy. That's apparently only halfway there.
That Atmos white paper is for theatrical installations. The placement recommendations and speaker counts don't apply to HT. Dolby hasn't posted a speaker placement guide for Atmos HT installations yet but I suspect it'll look at lot like the existing DTS Neo:X and Audyssey DSX installation guidance. And you're right -- it appears that the maximum number of speakers supported by the Atmos receivers announced so far is 13.2.

Speaking of installations, I finally got the RS-62IIs mounted (it took MUCH longer than I expected because I had to drill new holes, go buy longer screws, etc). Here are some pics of the new installation -- RB-81s as front heights are coming in about a month! I used my DSLR to take the pictures but they still look like a$$. I guess I'm no photographer.
funny you don't agree but have the sides hanging on about the height i was recommending.. anyways ur rears are too high, they should be at same height as the sides. oh and please don't call me names or tell me i get stuff out of my rectum or other immature talk, it really doesn't add to the knowledgable guy u are.
edit: forgot to mention... i like ur room, its nice n clean and looks pretty neat ..(unlike mine lol)

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post #36862 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 08:15 PM
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yup... pro logic..
now add to the fronts (which are 20cm lower for my ears, i have a low couch and am tall) a 2 ft which is 66cm and u get a 46cm difference which differs about 26cm from my advise. and again its for dolby II and not for dts , thx and DD. so to fill the gap and have all formats sound ok it works fine using the 10cm above the ear. so i say about 10-30cm above the ear works fine.
Congrats for today soccer gamem against Spain!!! You guys played amazing match!!! You frooze Spain country tonight for sure!!!! Great match!!!
yeah thnx, they did a formidable job indeed. looks like our new team is finally top notch again. allthough im no soccer fan im happy they won
no problem , I'm big soccer fan so I will cover you when Netherlands will play

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post #36863 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 08:19 PM
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no problem , I'm big soccer fan so I will cover you when Netherlands will play
lol thnx !
my neighbours cover me too when it comes to netherlands playing.. i hear half the block shouting, horning and scream everytime the dutch team scores. additionally i turn up my stereo to 0dB and play this fufuzela (or whatever the horn thing is called) sound. what can i say... i like horns hehe. my neighbours like the sound and give me a extra applaus when i play that.. u should be here, u be rolfmao'ing for sure. sometimes we dutch people are just completly nuts in a good way though :-D

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post #36864 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 08:31 PM
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I could keep adding and upgrading but id really like to stick with these Klipsch so that I can build a real setup in the future. This is just to have some fun when im off work so me and my siblings can have movie nights together.
Hmmm...how is your setup not a "real" setup? I think many people would be very happy to have the setup you have.
What I meant is like what everyones saying, to have a treated room and the whole 9 yards. The problem is that when I moved here a couple years ago we got a nice house by the mountains but we are renting because me and my brothers came here just for work. I wanted to make a setup in my bedroom because it's the best place in this house, it's seperated by being in thebasement so it's more dark and sealed. Everyone else has their own rooms and setups and the living room upstairs is too small plus we have cats and dogs so I keep everything seperated so it stays brand new looking. Basically I had an idea to make a cool setup for movie nights but this was my first HT setup so once I started buying everything I made alot of mistakes because I knew nothing. I think now though my room is prety much how I pictured id want it so I feel like im so close to just enjoying it without having to change more things. Tomorrow im going to have a replacement tweeter sent and just put it in. Hopefully everything stays sounding awesome because I really like these speakers.
Sounds like a plan! Good luck; I'm sure the new tweeter will help. If you still have problems with blowing speakers, I think the next step would be checking out the receiver for problems and/or buying something like an Emotiva XPA-3, but that's just me.

FWIW the big reason to go with Audyssey Pro is so you can create custom equalization curves. The crossovers in the speakers are already sending just the higher frequencies to your tweeters, so even if you use Audyssey to change your crossover, trim, or equalization settings, your tweeters will still be getting just the high frequencies.

As was mentioned, distortion (or overpowering, but not likely in this case) is what causes tweeters to blow. I'd still be pretty surprised if the amp actually clipped enough to kill a tweeter, but it's possible I suppose if you were driving your speakers really, really hard. And the fact that you've blown the B&Ws before does indicate that maybe something wonky is going on.

Again, I'd recommend what you're already doing; namely, try a new tweeter and see if the problem happens again. If it does, then it's time to see if something is wrong with your receiver and/or consider a dedicated power amp for your front three speakers. The Denon can output more than 120 Wpc into 8 ohms with five channels driven simultaneously, so if it's performing up to snuff, you really shouldn't have a problem.
Thanks for the advice. Yeah when I took the tweeter out of the RC-62 II, I noticed it was pretty beefy, big magnet
just get that 64 lol
u be so happy after hearing this thing, that you don't want anything else anymore. to me the 64 timbre matches fine when u trim it a few dB down, unlike the 62 that matches more with the 62 mains then it does with the 82.
audyssey pro get u a lot more EQ points and it comes with a pro mic and stuff u need. this is actually a very good addition to ur setup since u like to play with rew and stuff, you can set the EQ points according to what rew gets u in the graphs and be able to get it to nearly flat response overall. a pro kit is expensive though.
for the center tweeter blown up, it probably is the movie that has clipping sounds in it. ur denon is fine and with eq for sub on 80hz it doesn't have to give the full 150W to the center as most energy is used for the lower freqs. so it can't be out of juice and has plenty for driving the speakers. however if u play it loud then u get into the 10% distortion range and together with a overly high level recorded movie sound this could lead to trouble. there are more cases with a faulty tweeter also and klipsch was happy to replace them for free, so it could be that too. nevertheless a 64 will make you so much more happy . if you after getting the 64 are not happy with it, i will personally come over and buy you a center that does

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post #36865 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 08:54 PM
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Atmos for my room would require 15 additional speakers over the 7.1 I already have. I thought 13.2 was the maximum level of crazy. That's apparently only halfway there.
That Atmos white paper is for theatrical installations. The placement recommendations and speaker counts don't apply to HT. Dolby hasn't posted a speaker placement guide for Atmos HT installations yet but I suspect it'll look at lot like the existing DTS Neo:X and Audyssey DSX installation guidance. And you're right -- it appears that the maximum number of speakers supported by the Atmos receivers announced so far is 13.2.

Speaking of installations, I finally got the RS-62IIs mounted (it took MUCH longer than I expected because I had to drill new holes, go buy longer screws, etc). Here are some pics of the new installation -- RB-81s as front heights are coming in about a month! I used my DSLR to take the pictures but they still look like a$$. I guess I'm no photographer.
funny you don't agree but have the sides hanging on about the height i was recommending.. anyways ur rears are too high, they should be at same height as the sides. oh and please don't call me names or tell me i get stuff out of my rectum or other immature talk, it really doesn't add to the knowledgable guy u are.
edit: forgot to mention... i like ur room, its nice n clean and looks pretty neat ..(unlike mine lol)
Unfortunately limitations in the way my room was constructed don't allow me to mount my side surrounds as high as I'd like, but they're still about 1.5 feet above my listening positions when seated. The rears are about 2 feet above the listening positions, so I figure they're all "close enough." I imagine that Audyssey can more than compensate for the slight differences in height between the two sets of speakers. Besides, as you well know, the WDST design of Klipsch surrounds makes them considerably less sensitive to placement, but that doesn't mean you should put them in the wrong position if you can put them in the optimum position.

I don't think I called you any names; sorry you feel that way. But I do call it like I see it. It's just incredibly frustrating when people remain unwilling or unable to admit they're wrong despite being confronted with mountains of evidence that proves them wrong. I feel compelled to strongly refute any statements that go against commonly-accepted industry recommendations, not for my own benefit, but for the benefit of less experienced forum members. I've received tons of good, accurate information from the forum over the years, and I'd like to see that passed on. Regardless, whatever, I'm over it.

Thanks for your kind comments about my room, BTW! Keeping things neat, tidy, and professional-looking just adds to the overall experience IMHO.
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post #36866 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 09:15 PM
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just get that 64 lol
u be so happy after hearing this thing, that you don't want anything else anymore. to me the 64 timbre matches fine when u trim it a few dB down, unlike the 62 that matches more with the 62 mains then it does with the 82.
Not this again. Maybe to you the RC-64II timbre-matches the RF-82II mains after you, uh, "trim it down," but not to Klipsch nor many others. Changing the volume of the center channel speaker is not going to change its voicing. This is not a matter of opinion; it is a MATTER OF FACT.

The RC-64II and the RF-82II do not share common tweeter assemblies. The RC-62II and the RF-82II do share the same tweeter. It is this fact and not crossover specs, nor efficiency specs, nor woofer size, that in this case determines the best timbre-match. One might like the RC-64II better than the RC-62II. There's nothing wrong with that. But that does not mean that the RC-64II is better timbre-matched to the RF-82II than the RC-62II is.

This is easy. It really is! The RC-64II's voicing matches the RF-7II mains the best. The RC-62II's voicing matches all of the other Reference towers' voicing better than the RC-64II will. Just look at which sets of speakers' tweeters match one another. This ain't rocket science. And yes, I'm using voicing and timbre-matching interchangeably for the purposes of this discussion.

Again, DaJoJo might prefer the RC-64II to the RC-62II for any number of reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that. Heck, I'm sure he's not the only one. But, again, just because he likes the RC-64II better does not mean it's a better timbre-match for the RF-82IIs. Maybe timbre-matching across the front soundstage isn't as important to him as some other quality the RC-64II possesses that the RC-62II doesn't. I can't say. But a seamless soundstage - one that you get through proper timbre-matching - is vitally important to me. Thus, when I had my RF-82IIs, I went with an RC-62II. Now that I have RF-7IIs, I've moved to an RC-64II. I wouldn't mix the two up. Ever.

ClawAndTalon (a professional custom installer who knows a thing or two) went through this exact same discussion with DaJoJo a few weeks ago and I thought we'd put it to bed back then. Evidently not.

Blackmamba, if you want an unbiased opinion, call Klipsch and ask them whether the RC-62II or the RC-64II is the better timbre-match for your mains. They will say that the RC-62II is better matched. Heck, they even recommend on their website that you pair the RC-62II and the RF-82II! I don't know how much more of a recommendation you need.
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post #36867 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 09:15 PM
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Unfortunately limitations in the way my room was constructed don't allow me to mount my side surrounds as high as I'd like, but they're still about 1.5 feet above my listening positions when seated. The rears are about 2 feet above the listening positions, so I figure they're all "close enough." I imagine that Audyssey can more than compensate for the slight differences in height between the two sets of speakers. Besides, as you well know, the WDST design of Klipsch surrounds makes them considerably less sensitive to placement, but that doesn't mean you should put them in the wrong position if you can put them in the optimum position.

I don't think I called you any names; sorry you feel that way. But I do call it like I see it. It's just incredibly frustrating when people remain unwilling or unable to admit they're wrong despite being confronted with mountains of evidence that proves them wrong. I feel compelled to strongly refute any statements that go against commonly-accepted industry recommendations, not for my own benefit, but for the benefit of less experienced forum members. I've received tons of good, accurate information from the forum over the years, and I'd like to see that passed on. Regardless, whatever, I'm over it.

Thanks for your kind comments about my room, BTW! Keeping things neat, tidy, and professional-looking just adds to the overall experience IMHO.
yeah i got that limitations factor. you can always tilt them to point to the right direction anyways. i was at a friends home and he uses a cheap 1,50€ laserpointer for it, think i get one too, never thought of using this , but it is a great usefull tool for such stuff as speakerplacement. the WDST design makes it less sensitive in placement as in left/right movement, but they wouldn't function right close to a side-wall and too close together though. also they do not function well if not at the right height/aim to mlp. audyssey does speaker-angle tuning ? i thought only yamaha and anthem had such feature.
i do feel offended when u say i have no idea of what im talking about, im sure there are more people then me that would say i do know a little. i have no problem to admit when i'm wrong , but if i'm not then i have a hard time admitting it indeed and i want solid proof that i am. then i mean proof that is conform the situation/stuff we are talking about and not some common things other standard guidelines. i do too like to give good help and help make the forum a nice place to get a lot of info and im sure i do ok at that given i get a lot of thumbs up which im thankfull for. if im wrong then there are many people here that have their opinion about it and if like more then half of them disagree with me then it gives a good view to the reader on what to make of all of it. i'm glad you can let it rest, it is by no means my intention to make u feel bad in any way.
ur welcome, i really admire ur hard work that made it the room it is now. i should really clean up my room and make it look better and i can use ur's as an example how it can be. like ur couch too, too bad they don't sell those here in netherlands. can't even find a decent theater-seat here.

Klipsch RF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz

Klipsch RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz

Klipsch RS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz

Yamaha YST-SW800/1500 Subwoofers 1000W RMS 6 Ohm 18-170 hz

Yamaha RX-463 Amp 5x100W RMS

Monitor flatline 1.5mm pro wire

Samsung UE-ES8000S TV

PS3

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post #36868 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 09:43 PM
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yeah i got that limitations factor. you can always tilt them to point to the right direction anyways. i was at a friends home and he uses a cheap 1,50€ laserpointer for it, think i get one too, never thought of using this , but it is a great usefull tool for such stuff as speakerplacement. the WDST design makes it less sensitive in placement as in left/right movement, but they wouldn't function right close to a side-wall and too close together though. also they do not function well if not at the right height/aim to mlp. audyssey does speaker-angle tuning ? i thought only yamaha and anthem had such feature.
i do feel offended when u say i have no idea of what im talking about, im sure there are more people then me that would say i do know a little. i have no problem to admit when i'm wrong , but if i'm not then i have a hard time admitting it indeed and i want solid proof that i am. then i mean proof that is conform the situation/stuff we are talking about and not some common things other standard guidelines.
Well, I want the speakers above my listening position more than they already are, so pointing them downward (as I think you're suggesting) sort of defeats that purpose. I don't do much multi-channel music listening so I'm satisfied with a more diffuse-sounding surround field. Besides, all the wiring is hidden as the speakers are currently mounted, so if I do point them down, you'd be able to see the wiring and they'll no longer be flush with the wall. Yuck. FWIW, I do plan to aim my front heights (RB-81IIs) toward the MLP once I get them, so I'm not totally against the notion of speaker-aiming.

Relax, I never said you didn't know what you were talking about. But you dismissed all of the speaker-positioning recommendations I posted links to by saying they only applied to Dolby Pro-Logic (and by this I assume you meant legacy matrix-encoded surround) soundtracks. I disagree -- I think they very clearly apply to modern discrete 5.1 and 7.1 soundtracks.

Here's why I think your line of reasoning was preposterous. DVD was first available at retail in 1997. Along with DVD came discrete surround sound for the home (like Dolby Digital 5.1 and later DTS Digital Surround). I think it's reasonable to assume that DVD (and, by extension, discrete surround) became the de-facto home video standard by 2000 and had fully displaced legacy Dolby Surround and Dolby Pro-Logic formats (like VHS) by 2004. Therefore, I think it's reasonable to conclude that the standard surround sound format in 2004 was discrete Dolby Digital 5.1.

Now, if what you say is true - that all of those speaker placement recommendations that I posted/linked to only apply to legacy matrix surround mixes, that means that all of those websites are now (at least) 10 years out of date. Really? I don't buy that all of those manufacturers - most of them pretty big names in the cinema and home theater businesses - haven't updated their websites in the past 10 years. So, for the sake of currency alone (not to mention common sense and a few other reasons), we can reasonably conclude that those speaker placement recommendations do indeed apply to discrete, Dolby Digital 5.1 (and, by extension, DTS 5.1 and discrete 7.1) soundtracks.

So, it's your prerogative to dismiss the speaker positioning recommendations I posted. Heck, it's your home theater; do whatever you want. But to suggest that they're wrong, or outdated, or don't apply, well, that plainly defies logic. At best, it's disingenuous to recommend speaker placements other than what the websites I linked to suggest. At worst, it's just plain wrong.

Now, seriously, that's all I'm going to say about it. My flipping fingers are tired from all this typing and I need to watch Game of Thrones.
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post #36869 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 10:02 PM
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Not this again. Maybe to you the RC-64II timbre-matches the RF-82II mains after you, uh, "trim it down," but not to Klipsch nor many others. Changing the volume of the center channel speaker is not going to change its voicing. This is not a matter of opinion; it is a MATTER OF FACT.

The RC-64II and the RF-82II do not share common tweeter assemblies. The RC-62II and the RF-82II do share the same tweeter. It is this fact and not crossover specs, nor efficiency specs, nor woofer size, that in this case determines the best timbre-match. One might like the RC-64II better than the RC-62II. There's nothing wrong with that. But that does not mean that the RC-64II is better timbre-matched to the RF-82II than the RC-62II is.

This is easy. It really is! The RC-64II's voicing matches the RF-7II mains the best. The RC-62II's voicing matches all of the other Reference towers' voicing better than the RC-64II will. Just look at which sets of speakers' tweeters match one another. This ain't rocket science. And yes, I'm using voicing and timbre-matching interchangeably for the purposes of this discussion.

Again, DaJoJo might prefer the RC-64II to the RC-62II for any number of reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that. Heck, I'm sure he's not the only one. But, again, just because he likes the RC-64II better does not mean it's a better timbre-match for the RF-82IIs. Maybe timbre-matching across the front soundstage isn't as important to him as some other quality the RC-64II possesses that the RC-62II doesn't. I can't say. But a seamless soundstage - one that you get through proper timbre-matching - is vitally important to me. Thus, when I had my RF-82IIs, I went with an RC-62II. Now that I have RF-7IIs, I've moved to an RC-64II. I wouldn't mix the two up. Ever.

ClawAndTalon (a professional custom installer who knows a thing or two) went through this exact same discussion with DaJoJo a few weeks ago and I thought we'd put it to bed back then. Evidently not.

Blackmamba, if you want an unbiased opinion, call Klipsch and ask them whether the RC-62II or the RC-64II is the better timbre-match for your mains. They will say that the RC-62II is better matched. Heck, they even recommend on their website that you pair the RC-62II and the RF-82II! I don't know how much more of a recommendation you need.
yes this again lol. the RC-62II fits great with the RF-62II, but it doesn't fit the bookshelves nor does with the rf-52II or 42II. besides that the 64 uses the same woofers as the 62 , but from the 64 one woofer fill the lower range till 1100 and one the 1100-1400hz and xo is a littler lower then the 62 and less harsh highs. when i had the 62 it makes a different high tone then it does with the 64 now. mostly voices come out of the most left and right woofer so this gives a wider centerstage and as it has the same woofer as the 62 it don't sound that much different i guess. strangely the rs-62II has the same 1" tweeter as the 82II and it doesn't sound on same level with the 82II like the 64 does and it also isn't timbre-matched to the 82 according to klipsch and my ears, how to explain that ? and yeah clawandtalon first came here as beginner and learned a thing or two and now is telling us like he invented it and like he is a pro at it. i donno about that. he does do his homework though and got some great advice now and then. i had a friends dad over and he told me that he found it better matched with the 64 too. mind he is a pro at this stuff and has his own high-end audio job, working for mark-levinson and b&w and a bunch of other high-class way too expensive brands testing their speakers n stuff by ear. so yeah who would i believe more.. offcourse its all my opinion and everyone can have its own and most of the people who put a 64 between their 82 are very much pleased with it as it sounds way better now. most movies don't even put higher then 10khz sounds in the centerchannel and also there are a lot of avr's that don't even output more then the 10khz in theirs. in the end it mostly comes down to personal liking anyway i guess and i like the 64 a lot better between my 82 then i liked the 62. for me discussion about this would be closed if a really highly regarded audio-expert chime in and tell me im totally wrong. being as expensive as both my fronts and advertised to belong to the 7II, offcourse klipsch helpdesk would say 64 wouldn't match as they want ther 7II be bought in combination with it. but hey what do they know.. i have no experience with them but i doubt they're speaker experts, neither are we .

Klipsch RF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz

Klipsch RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz

Klipsch RS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz

Yamaha YST-SW800/1500 Subwoofers 1000W RMS 6 Ohm 18-170 hz

Yamaha RX-463 Amp 5x100W RMS

Monitor flatline 1.5mm pro wire

Samsung UE-ES8000S TV

PS3

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post #36870 of 38821 Old 06-15-2014, 10:15 PM
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Well, I want the speakers above my listening position more than they already are, so pointing them downward (as I think you're suggesting) sort of defeats that purpose. I don't do much multi-channel music listening so I'm satisfied with a more diffuse-sounding surround field. Besides, all the wiring is hidden as the speakers are currently mounted, so if I do point them down, you'd be able to see the wiring and they'll no longer be flush with the wall. Yuck. FWIW, I do plan to aim my front heights (RB-81IIs) toward the MLP once I get them, so I'm not totally against the notion of speaker-aiming.

Relax, I never said you didn't know what you were talking about. But you dismissed all of the speaker-positioning recommendations I posted links to by saying they only applied to Dolby Pro-Logic (and by this I assume you meant legacy matrix-encoded surround) soundtracks. I disagree -- I think they very clearly apply to modern discrete 5.1 and 7.1 soundtracks.

Here's why I think your line of reasoning was preposterous. DVD was first available at retail in 1997. Along with DVD came discrete surround sound for the home (like Dolby Digital 5.1 and later DTS Digital Surround). I think it's reasonable to assume that DVD (and, by extension, discrete surround) became the de-facto home video standard by 2000 and had fully displaced legacy Dolby Surround and Dolby Pro-Logic formats (like VHS) by 2004. Therefore, I think it's reasonable to conclude that the standard surround sound format in 2004 was discrete Dolby Digital 5.1.

Now, if what you say is true - that all of those speaker placement recommendations that I posted/linked to only apply to legacy matrix surround mixes, that means that all of those websites are now (at least) 10 years out of date. Really? I don't buy that all of those manufacturers - most of them pretty big names in the cinema and home theater businesses - haven't updated their websites in the past 10 years. So, for the sake of currency alone (not to mention common sense and a few other reasons), we can reasonably conclude that those speaker placement recommendations do indeed apply to discrete, Dolby Digital 5.1 (and, by extension, DTS 5.1 and discrete 7.1) soundtracks.

So, it's your prerogative to dismiss the speaker positioning recommendations I posted. Heck, it's your home theater; do whatever you want. But to suggest that they're wrong, or outdated, or don't apply, well, that plainly defies logic. At best, it's disingenuous to recommend speaker placements other than what the websites I linked to suggest. At worst, it's just plain wrong.

Now, seriously, that's all I'm going to say about it. My flipping fingers are tired from all this typing and I need to watch Game of Thrones.
yeah seeing wires won't give it a clean tight look. i do not dismissed them i just figured a placement that would keep the middle in and satisfy all placements for different formats. i mean legacy surround indeed. the thing is if u look at dolby website for speakerplacement , they say surround need to be placed a little above the ear 90-110 degrees from side. dts says 100 or something so the middle would be 100 degrees and that would be good for both. denon says so many feet above the fronts (great if u have bookshelves on a low shelf but ok) the other says that.. in the end a 10cm above the head/ear would be good middlepoint. it's not that they're wrong , it's that we as HT owners have to find a middle in it all and want to watch movies in all different formats with the speakers in a good middle-of-it-all placement. that they're outdated.. ok maybe i excagurated that a bit, but it doesn't make this stuff any different. now enjoy ur game of thrones , its a nice series.

Klipsch RF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz

Klipsch RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz

Klipsch RS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz

Yamaha YST-SW800/1500 Subwoofers 1000W RMS 6 Ohm 18-170 hz

Yamaha RX-463 Amp 5x100W RMS

Monitor flatline 1.5mm pro wire

Samsung UE-ES8000S TV

PS3

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