Klipsch owner thread - Page 1270 - AVS Forum
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post #38071 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 07:05 AM
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Well, if he came on and said "I couldn't notice a difference between this new line and RF-82 II" I think many people would believe that and be impressed. To say it's better than a speaker like the RF-7 II seems incredible, and we will need more than just an opinion and will need some graphs and data to back it up.

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post #38072 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post
Alex L a klipsch representitive from the klipsch forums said this:

"For those wondering, here are the differences between Icon and this new line of Reference.
All new Reference Linear Travel Suspension tweeter design for smoother, more powerful high frequencies.
All new mechanical woofer design with seamless dustcap for minimized mid frequency diffraction and distortion.
All new Spun Copper IMG woofer cone is incredibly rigid, with new design adding structural integrity for minimal cone break up at high excursion levels. This makes for even cleaner, more accurate low frequency reproduction.
All new Brushed Polymer Veneer finish is exceptionally durable with a much more contemporary aesthetic over the previous wood grain vinyl of the Icon series."


What's your response to this?


BTW why are you guys not calling out klipsch rep alex L in the klipsch forum thread, since you claim there's no difference between these and the icon's except painted woofer's?
This is excactly my point, those are little better Icon's. I believe that very easily. Please can you ask Alex from Klipsch to compare R-28F and RF-7II and then let us know, please.

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post #38073 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
This is excactly my point, those are little better Icon's. I believe that very easily. Please can you ask Alex from Klipsch to compare R-28F and RF-7II and then let us know, please.
Jeez guys! Not to single anyone out and admit I had two posts written in response to several things, but decided not to post because this really has been beaten to death, imo...Insofar as asking or reprinting anything from Klipsch Marketing department realize that it's ADVERTISING and take what you read with a grain of salt.

My last comment to Murder is to enjoy your speakers because they do seem like a good deal at that price and no one has written anything that you should be offended about, imo. Welcome to the club and of course post your impressions along with pictures!
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post #38074 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by isaac415 View Post
Anyone here have opinions on the RB81s and value of them used? Are they better than polk rti8?
I currently have a 5.1 polk system and want to upgrade and go for quality over quantity.
I am considering rb81s, 61s, rf5s, rc62, rc64. etc.
Is 500 for almost new rb81s a good buy? I know its a fair price but I dont want to pay for the brand and the appearance.
With that being said, I do love the look haha and they would have very high WAF at my house I believe....
Let me know!
Thanks.
I have no experience with the Polk speakers you mention. That said, RB-81s at $500 seems like a reasonable price but the speakers you mention run the gambit from discontinued products from several lines that go back 12 years and/or could be current models if they have a "II" on the end (example RC-64 vs RC-64II)--some are going to be comparable to the older models and some not.
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post #38075 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 09:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
Jeez guys! Not to single anyone out and admit I had two posts written in response to several things, but decided not to post because this really has been beaten to death, imo...Insofar as asking or reprinting anything from Klipsch Marketing department realize that it's ADVERTISING and take what you read with a grain of salt.

My last comment to Murder is to enjoy your speakers because they do seem like a good deal at that price and no one has written anything that you should be offended about, imo. Welcome to the club and of course post your impressions along with pictures!

Absolutely, It's all about what sounds good to you for your system. The Reference I set up is a great set up for it's price. It might be the best at it's price, and likely the only set I'd own for that price. I'm sure it's better than the Synergy/Icon series. If anyone disagrees with that, let's hear why.


There are several former synergy/icon owners who post here, and have joined in the conversation in a positive way. What made that possible is that the Synergy/Icon owner didn't try and definitively claim that his tower sub combo was better than, or comparable to vastly higher grade Klipsch gear. This in turn didn't lead the RF-7II owner to have to state the obvious when compared to synergy/icon towers.
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post #38076 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Absolutely, It's all about what sounds good to you for your system. The Reference I set up is a great set up for it's price. It might be the best at it's price, and likely the only set I'd own for that price. I'm sure it's better than the Synergy/Icon series. If anyone disagrees with that, let's hear why.


There are several former synergy/icon owners who post here, and have joined in the conversation in a positive way. What made that possible is that the Synergy/Icon owner didn't try and definitively claim that his tower sub combo was better than, or comparable to vastly higher grade Klipsch gear. This in turn didn't lead the RF-7II owner to have to state the obvious when compared to synergy/icon towers.
I currently have Pretty much all Synergy and am perfectly happy with them as a starter system. I went from a Cerwin Vega HTIB 5.1 system to a Synergy 7.1 system which was an insane upgrade from the HTIB. Then I added Front Heights using Synergy Bookshelfs, upgraded my fronts to the F-30s and am using my old F-20s for wides all of which I got at huge discounts from NewEgg and Woot. I would never compare these to higher end Klipsch and had they not been on sale I would just have slowly built my system from higher end speakers. I prefer them to Icon series but I am gradually going to upgrade from here on out piece by piece. My first upgrade was swapping out my C-20 for an RC-62II open box that I got for a steal and it has made all the difference. The sense I get from this new Reference line is they took the best of the Synergy and Icon lines and just kind of combined them into an affordable package, giving people a taste of higher end sound (vs Home Theaters in a Box). I have heard the new reference line and it is comparable to Synergy line, but definitely (subtly) better. Would I upgrade to this new Reference series from Synergy or Icon? Nope, I am saving my ducats for the higher end stuff. Having said all that, my current system works really well for me and I love watching movies with my setup. In the end that is all that matters
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post #38077 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
I currently have Pretty much all Synergy and am perfectly happy with them as a starter system. I went from a Cerwin Vega HTIB 5.1 system to a Synergy 7.1 system which was an insane upgrade from the HTIB. Then I added Front Heights using Synergy Bookshelfs, upgraded my fronts to the F-30s and am using my old F-20s for wides all of which I got at huge discounts from NewEgg and Woot. I would never compare these to higher end Klipsch and had they not been on sale I would just have slowly built my system from higher end speakers. I prefer them to Icon series but I am gradually going to upgrade from here on out piece by piece. My first upgrade was swapping out my C-20 for an RC-62II open box that I got for a steal and it has made all the difference. The sense I get from this new Reference line is they took the best of the Synergy and Icon lines and just kind of combined them into an affordable package, giving people a taste of higher end sound (vs Home Theaters in a Box). I have heard the new reference line and it is comparable to Synergy line, but definitely (subtly) better. Would I upgrade to this new Reference series from Synergy or Icon? Nope, I am saving my ducats for the higher end stuff. Having said all that, my current system works really well for me and I love watching movies with my setup. In the end that is all that matters
Umm I see in your sig that you own a couple of Bose? How dare you have them singing with the rest of your Klipsch speakers!!!

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post #38078 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
Umm I see in your sig that you own a couple of Bose? How dare you have them singing with the rest of your Klipsch speakers!!!
Hahaha forgot about those. I am using an old set of 161s in my bedroom for rear height surrounds with a few Klipsch Gallery speakers. I originally had the Bose in the mix with the Cerwin Vega HTIB. Please forgive me
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post #38079 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post
Alex L a klipsch representitive from the klipsch forums said this:

"For those wondering, here are the differences between Icon and this new line of Reference.
All new Reference Linear Travel Suspension tweeter design for smoother, more powerful high frequencies.
All new mechanical woofer design with seamless dustcap for minimized mid frequency diffraction and distortion.
All new Spun Copper IMG woofer cone is incredibly rigid, with new design adding structural integrity for minimal cone break up at high excursion levels. This makes for even cleaner, more accurate low frequency reproduction.
All new Brushed Polymer Veneer finish is exceptionally durable with a much more contemporary aesthetic over the previous wood grain vinyl of the Icon series."


What's your response to this?


BTW why are you guys not calling out klipsch rep alex L in the klipsch forum thread, since you claim there's no difference between these and the icon's except painted woofer's?
All new reference linear travel suspension tweeter design-how much better can they make an aluminium compression driver? All new mechanical woofer design with seamless dustcap- wow, a seamless dustcap will make it sound amazing i'm sure. Note they are still IMG, just a different colour. These are the only 2 things from the above post that can change the sound significantly from the KF28, and i'm not buying that it has changed THAT much. It may well sound 'better' than the old icon/synergy, but more like the RF82ii sounds over RF82 or F30 over the F3...Like others have said i am sure it is a good speaker, just don't tell us it's something it isn't.
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post #38080 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 11:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Robbiey60 View Post
All new reference linear travel suspension tweeter design-how much better can they make an aluminium compression driver? All new mechanical woofer design with seamless dustcap- wow, a seamless dustcap will make it sound amazing i'm sure. Note they are still IMG, just a different colour. These are the only 2 things from the above post that can change the sound significantly from the KF28, and i'm not buying that it has changed THAT much. It may well sound 'better' than the old icon/synergy, but more like the RF82ii sounds over RF82 or F30 over the F3...Like others have said i am sure it is a good speaker, just don't tell us it's something it isn't.

I think his point here is that there are changes to the Reference I, other than just copper colored drivers. It's a strawman argument, because the main point of contention here was the suggestion that the Reference I tower with matching sub was comparable to an RF 7 II.
I'll venture to say they sound great, and likely better than Icon/Synergy, but to say they are just as good or better than RF 7 IIs is an outrageous claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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post #38081 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 11:36 AM
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i have a pair of kf-28's would you guys say it was a good idea to build a stand to raise them to the tv level ?

this is what it looks like right now

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post #38082 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow View Post
i have a pair of kf-28's would you guys say it was a good idea to build a stand to raise them to the tv level ?

this is what it looks like right now

You want the horn around ear level. I suggest leaving them where they are unless your couch or chair is taller than your tv stand

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post #38083 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 11:53 AM
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ok thank you.

Also do you recommend the speaker covers on or off

Last edited by 2pacalypsenow; 08-26-2014 at 12:33 PM.
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post #38084 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow View Post
ok thank you.

Also do you recommend the speaker covers on or off

I can't see your photo because I'm at work, but I wouldn't raise these speakers.

Speaker covers on our off is personal choice, there shouldn't be much a difference. I'd leave them on.


I assume you're trying to orientate LR sound imaging to come from beside the TV instead of below and to the side. Try and spread out those towers as much as possible. Those towers will project just fine up to 10 feet apart, or even more, especially for HT purposes.

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post #38085 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow View Post
ok thank you.

Also do you recommend the speaker covers on or off
Covers are designed to be accoutically transparent, so on or off is a matter of personal preference.
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post #38086 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I think his point here is that there are changes to the Reference I, other than just copper colored drivers. It's a strawman argument, because the main point of contention here was the suggestion that the Reference I tower with matching sub was comparable to an RF 7 II...
.
I just noticed something in your description above that confused me in another post a few pages back--When you say "Reference I" you aren't talking about the first generation of Reference speakers but the lower end of the current and new line that aren't RF-7IIs. Correct? So RF-62II and RF-82II are both "Reference I" speakers (as well as the R-28F) in the way you are categorizing these speakers?
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post #38087 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:19 PM
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ok yeah cuz my tv is higher than the speakers and when watching tv it doesnt feel like its coming from the tv its not blending

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post #38088 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow View Post
ok thank you.

Also do you recommend the speaker covers on or off
Fwiw, I agree with the others but leaving them on leaves less chance of the LF drivers being damaged,
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post #38089 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
I just noticed something in your description above that confused me in another post a few pages back--When you say "Reference I" you aren't talking about the first generation of Reference speakers but the lower end of the current and new line that aren't RF-7IIs. Correct? So RF-62II and RF-82II are both "Reference I" speakers (as well as the R-28F) in the way you are categorizing these speakers?


Ahhh good catch, by Reference I, I was referring to the new line replacing Icon/Synergy. Reference II is the current line that we've been calling Reference. So and RF -62 II is Reference II.
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post #38090 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow View Post
ok yeah cuz my tv is higher than the speakers and when watching tv it doesnt feel klke its coming from the tv its not blending
I can see that and if any way possible would lower the tv and put the center channel above it tilted towards your LP--The way you have it set up now looks like it would be great for multichannel music but not so good for TV and movies.
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post #38091 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow View Post
ok yeah cuz my tv is higher than the speakers and when watching tv it doesnt feel klke its coming from the tv its not blending

Right, spreading out the LR Mains will help their vertical dispersion have time to achieve more height before it gets to your ears. I do this myself as I like to use my TV as a workout room and the TV is probably a bit higher than ideal.
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post #38092 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:32 PM
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This is my listening position what would you recommend ?
The center speaker is right under the tv on top of a wooden box

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post #38093 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:40 PM
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Ahhh good catch, by Reference I, I was referring to the new line replacing Icon/Synergy. Reference II is the current line that we've been calling Reference. So and RF -62 II is Reference II.
Honestly, what we've been calling Reference II (i.e., RF-xxII) is actually Reference IV but they only started duplicating the numbers with those (except for when they rebadged the RF-3s as RF-3II in the first generation and started putting in MONSTER cable to *improve* the sound, but didn't change anything else)....

Then came the Reference 2 speakers that had the RF-7s as flagship and the RF-35s in the lower end...With the RF-83s came the RF-82s as the lower end to those (Reference III) and now the RF-7IIs and RF-82IIs that hold those same spots in the Reference IV--No, not very confusing.
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post #38094 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
Honestly, what we've been calling Reference II (i.e., RF-xxII) is actually Reference IV but they only started duplicating the numbers with those (except for when they rebadged the RF-3s as RF-3II in the first generation and started putting in MONSTER cable to *improve* the sound, but didn't change anything else)....

Then came the Reference 2 speakers that had the RF-7s as flagship and the RF-35s in the lower end...With the RF-83s came the RF-82s as the lower end to those (Reference III) and now the RF-7IIs and RF-82IIs that hold those same spots in the Reference IV--No, not very confusing.

I thought about all of this the other day, indeed it's quite confusing. For me, what is now called Reference II was the biggest jump in quality from a previous design.


I love me some Monster Cable, but only with Bose equipment. Also if it doesn't say Sony, you can forget it.
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post #38095 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 01:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow View Post
This is my listening position what would you recommend ?
The center speaker is right under the tv on top of a wooden box


Spread out your LR mains another 2-3 foot or so. Run Audyssey (or similar) again.
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post #38096 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
Jeez guys! Not to single anyone out and admit I had two posts written in response to several things, but decided not to post because this really has been beaten to death, imo...Insofar as asking or reprinting anything from Klipsch Marketing department realize that it's ADVERTISING and take what you read with a grain of salt.

My last comment to Murder is to enjoy your speakers because they do seem like a good deal at that price and no one has written anything that you should be offended about, imo. Welcome to the club and of course post your impressions along with pictures!
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Absolutely, It's all about what sounds good to you for your system. The Reference I set up is a great set up for it's price. It might be the best at it's price, and likely the only set I'd own for that price. I'm sure it's better than the Synergy/Icon series. If anyone disagrees with that, let's hear why.


There are several former synergy/icon owners who post here, and have joined in the conversation in a positive way. What made that possible is that the Synergy/Icon owner didn't try and definitively claim that his tower sub combo was better than, or comparable to vastly higher grade Klipsch gear. This in turn didn't lead the RF-7II owner to have to state the obvious when compared to synergy/icon towers.
Agreed! No one is saying they are bad speakers. But when someone starts claiming they are better than speakers that cost way more, that are produced and sold by the same company, you should expect people to express disbelief.

And I echo Zen: Enjoy your speakers and please continue to post your impressions, pictures, graphs, etc. Make us believers too

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post #38097 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post
Well, if he came on and said "I couldn't notice a difference between this new line and RF-82 II" I think many people would believe that and be impressed. To say it's better than a speaker like the RF-7 II seems incredible, and we will need more than just an opinion and will need some graphs and data to back it up.
That's pretty much what i said after hearing the 28's and compairing them to the Rf-82's, I never said they sounded good as the RF-7's, if you check my impressions you find that's what i stated. The other user stated they sounded as good as the rf-7's
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post #38098 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I think his point here is that there are changes to the Reference I, other than just copper colored drivers. It's a strawman argument, because the main point of contention here was the suggestion that the Reference I tower with matching sub was comparable to an RF 7 II.
I'll venture to say they sound great, and likely better than Icon/Synergy, but to say they are just as good or better than RF 7 IIs is an outrageous claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I would like for you to point out exactly where i stated they sounded as good as the RF-7's, If you actually go back and read my impressions you will see I compared them to my old f-3's and the RF-82's, I never mentioned the RF-7's, the other used the rf7's in his comparison and i thanked him for his input after that things went left in this discussion, that's what I took issue with, how come someone can't have a different opinion? whether it's right or wrong it's a opinion.
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post #38099 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
“Just want to start by saying I mean no disrespect to youguys. All I would like to say is this subject has without question struck anerve in this thread, to be perfectly honest, I'm borderline offended at theattack toward new users in this thread and even myself after I asked and thenwent myself to audition the speakers.”


New users aren’t attacked because they are new users.However, when someone presents obviously poor information, then they arecorrected, and then double down and try and fox hole their opinion, then yes,the reaction from others might be seen as ‘attacking.’ Most members on thissite value factual information, and what was presented was far from it. Themember doubled down, and used erroneous information repeatedly in order to ‘beright.’


“It seems anyone that has a different opinion from you guysmust be crazy and not know what they are talking about. What's funny is not oneof you guys have any real indepth experience with this speaker.”


Define ‘in-depth,’ and how presumptive for you to claim thatothers are ignorant to the Ref I speaker’s performance. There are folks here whoactually sell and install this equipment for a living. There are others who canevaluate speakers well because it’s a lifelong hobby.


“So it's really an assumption argument.”


Wrong again. Here you are ignoring information again.Frequency response, THD, CEA 2010, group delay, waterfall response, I can go onand on as to how the Reference I set shouldn’t be compared to the RF-7 II.There are numerous factual descriptive reasons why RF 7 IIs are superior to theReference I set described. You, and the other poster seemingly refuse to acceptthese things.


“From the overall tone of retro using all caps in hisresponse to someone else making a sarcasm post on the klipsch forum.....I meani'm really out done here guys.”


Don’t let the door hit ya. Few people on this page have beenattacked like I have, but I don’t let caps or sarcasm get the better of me. Ijust rely on what I know is true from a lifetime of knowledge, and let otherpeople make their own decisions.


“I never experienced this type of push back in any otheravsforum thread. I'm done with discussing this speaker until i get them on BFand then maybe I will post a review with indepth analysis for the other usersthat actually care.”


Who says that we don’t care about the Reference I speaker asa product offering? No one is saying it’s a poor speaker set for the money,where everyone is taking issue is comparing it to a Reference II speaker (specifically the RF 7 II) or a speaker fromthe Heritage line. Are they better than old synergy, and Icon, ok sure, that’strue. I don’t think anyone has an issue with that, it’s the ridiculous notionthat it’s better than vastly superior equpitment. Sure the Reference I mightnot be on the radar for many folks here, especially if we already own somethingbetter, but no one is pushing back the way you’re claiming. I’m sure you’llbenefit everyone with your in-depth analysis, but I think you need to learn abit more first.
I have been into high end audio all my life, so i wondering just what is it you suggest I need to learn a "bit" more about?
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post #38100 of 40490 Old 08-26-2014, 03:30 PM
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As far as the RF-7ii's are concerned I think it's a great speaker, I got a chance to hear it a while ago and was impressed it's a definite upgrade over the RF-82's that said it was no super speaker that's for sure, IN MY OPINION, I heard three speakers recently that take it school, the Sonus Faber venere 3.0, triton 1 and b&w 805d, I think those are all better speakers than the RF-7ii, In fact I think they all blow the RF-7 out of the water and i'm a big klipsch fan, i grew up listening to the hertiage stuff. So based on what i heard I don't remember the RF-7 Being some HUGE Monster by a football field length greater than the RF-82's, they where for sure better, but it was no super speaker that's for sure. So that's why i didn't have a issue with the OP's comments.

Last edited by The Murderousone; 08-26-2014 at 03:40 PM.
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