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post #38131 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
I would say both a PB-2000 and x4000 would be a huge upgrade. With x4100 coming out though I'd say maybe wait. Also, I would keep the RW12d and run 2 subwoofers. Trust me and thank me later.

The thing about x4000 and audyssey XT32. You might think "receiver isn't that big of an upgrade right"? Yeah I thought that too until I got my XT32 room correction software. If you eventually want to get an x4000 or x4100 keeping your old subwoofer will be even a smarter choice since it accepts 2 subwoofers and equalizes them to work together. The result you get with XT32 is the most pure and room filling sound you have ever heard.

This is why I say either would be a huge upgrade.
Thanks yeah that was part of the plan (the dual sub output plus subeq). I plan on keeping my rw-12d until I get a second sub, unless I buy a pb-12plus. I posted a while ago about my difficulties with placement of two subs though so we will see how it works out.

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post #38132 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Schwa View Post


There have only been five different variations of the dual 8" Reference tower speakers (not counting the new R-28F towers), and I listed all of them, so Klipsch must've considered the RF-3II a "new Reference;" after all, they gave it a new model number.



See? "Ref 5?"
No pissing contest--I went from memory and was wrong....Btw, here is a "single tweeter, dual 8" woofer" Reference model you missed: http://www.klipsch.com/rf-5-floorsta...peaker/details

That said, when they released the RF-3II and the RB-5II they were the only ones they released at the time with that designation and there was no difference at all between them and the originals except for Monster Cable..

Then again, you provided the proof that Klipsch called their current line the Reference 5 line so I stand corrected.

{EDIT: " Heck, let me quote it here in case you can't be bothered to click the link:" NOTE: This line seemed kinda mean-spirited and I DID click on the link and actually went to that page prior to me posting my original comment but somehow missed it after skimming the page--It was too late and I was ready for bed...Still, no excuse, but a good reason and I hate being wrong. }

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post #38133 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post
Thanks yeah that was part of the plan (the dual sub output plus subeq). I plan on keeping my rw-12d until I get a second sub, unless I buy a pb-12plus. I posted a while ago about my difficulties with placement of two subs though so we will see how it works out.
So did you think about cylinder sub, it is easier to placed then PB.

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post #38134 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 07:29 AM
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So did you think about cylinder sub, it is easier to placed then PB.
I thought about it but kind of dismissed it. The height means I can't put it at the front, under the screen, which is basically my only spot since I moved some stuff around. I had a great spot near-field between my couch and the wall, but I shifted the couches over to make room for some shelves and to better center the seating to the screen so that spot is probably too tight now. If I can fit my RW-12D in there I will likely do that for the time being, but IIRC the last time I measured there is not enough space.

My other option is to bring out the console forward and put the subs behind it, but it looks kind of weird and the sound started to feel disconnected from the screen.

Anyway, all part of the fun! (until I move in a few years and hopefully have a true dedicated room )

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post #38135 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
No pissing contest--I went from memory and was wrong....Btw, here is a "single tweeter, dual 8" woofer" Reference model you missed: http://www.klipsch.com/rf-5-floorsta...peaker/details

That said, when they released the RF-3II and the RB-5II they were the only ones they released at the time with that designation and there was no difference at all between them and the originals except for Monster Cable..

Then again, you provided the proof that Klipsch called their current line the Reference 5 line so I stand corrected. And you're right -- I completely missed the RF-5.

{EDIT: " Heck, let me quote it here in case you can't be bothered to click the link:" NOTE: This line seemed kinda mean-spirited and I DID click on the link and actually went to that page prior to me posting my original comment but somehow missed it after skimming the page--It was too late and I was ready for bed...Still, no excuse, but a good reason and I hate being wrong. }
It's all good. I got a little charged up with your "nope" comment but figured you'd probably missed the press release.

I had the original RF-3s and (this is sad) can even remember where I was when I read that the RF-3IIs had been announced (with "Z-series" Monster Cable). Talk about the easiest decision ever not to upgrade to the "newest" model!
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post #38136 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post
I thought about it but kind of dismissed it. The height means I can't put it at the front, under the screen, which is basically my only spot since I moved some stuff around. I had a great spot near-field between my couch and the wall, but I shifted the couches over to make room for some shelves and to better center the seating to the screen so that spot is probably too tight now. If I can fit my RW-12D in there I will likely do that for the time being, but IIRC the last time I measured there is not enough space.

My other option is to bring out the console forward and put the subs behind it, but it looks kind of weird and the sound started to feel disconnected from the screen.

Anyway, all part of the fun! (until I move in a few years and hopefully have a true dedicated room )
So are yo more in to PB-2000 or PB12-Plus now? If you will have later on dedicated room maybe Plus?

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post #38137 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 11:10 AM
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So are yo more in to PB-2000 or PB12-Plus now? If you will have later on dedicated room maybe Plus?
That's exactly what i'm thinking. I won't move for a minimum of 4 years, so that's not a huge consideration. Really if I can find a reasonable way to fit 2 subs in my room, I'd rather go with dual pb2000 for now.

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post #38138 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post
That's exactly what i'm thinking. I won't move for a minimum of 4 years, so that's not a huge consideration. Really if I can find a reasonable way to fit 2 subs in my room, I'd rather go with dual pb2000 for now.
You will love it it will move your HT system to next gear. I had same situation before but I'm going to move within 1 year so it is why get dual Pluses. (actually I never fought to have 2 subs but i had chance to try them together and I love it). I know they will do easy even on double size room then I have now.

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post #38139 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post
That's exactly what i'm thinking. I won't move for a minimum of 4 years, so that's not a huge consideration. Really if I can find a reasonable way to fit 2 subs in my room, I'd rather go with dual pb2000 for now.

I love my PB-2000, and if I had the room I would add another. Of course I'm not sure the brick would last long on my house if I did......lol, just 1 already shakes everything in the house.

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post #38140 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 12:41 PM
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Awesome! Thanks for the input everyone! Thread derail over (for now)

I'm most likely going to pick up a pb-2000, then a second whenever I figure out how to fit it.

The room is <2300 cu ft so I'm sure that will be plenty.

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post #38141 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 01:05 PM
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I have a pb-12 plus as my nearfield sub in my living room setup and it great. Fits right behind the couch has a very small foot print. Also people ask "what is that?". I would suggest anyone to add a nearfield if your space allows it.
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post #38142 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post
Awesome! Thanks for the input everyone! Thread derail over (for now)

I'm most likely going to pick up a pb-2000, then a second whenever I figure out how to fit it.

The room is <2300 cu ft so I'm sure that will be plenty.
Stack um
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post #38143 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 03:58 PM
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I have a pb-12 plus as my nearfield sub in my living room setup and it great. Fits right behind the couch has a very small foot print. Also people ask "what is that?". I would suggest anyone to add a nearfield if your space allows it.
Yeah I got a nearfield too. It's the RW12d. I do eventually plan to upgrade. I'll have to see if there is enough room for a PB-2000 in there. Would be great to have a PB that would probably rock my bones.

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post #38144 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 05:45 PM
 
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Since the talk is on subwoofers, I assume most everyone here uses Audyssey (or similar RC). Do you make any changes post calibration? If so what?


Just curious.
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post #38145 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 05:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post
Awesome! Thanks for the input everyone! Thread derail over (for now)

I'm most likely going to pick up a pb-2000, then a second whenever I figure out how to fit it.

The room is <2300 cu ft so I'm sure that will be plenty.


Depending on your room dynamics, a single PB2000 might be all you need. Two is all just about anyone needs. YMMV


Have you looked into the PSA subs? I think they have a ported model about the same price or like 100$ more, but with a 15" woofer. Worth looking into if you haven't. If not the PB2000 is fine.
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post #38146 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Since the talk is on subwoofers, I assume most everyone here uses Audyssey (or similar RC). Do you make any changes post calibration? If so what?


Just curious.
Not me...I admit I used to like the way my RSW-12 &RSW-15 really hit those lower notes loud and the tactile sensation when they did (pre-audyssey) but found if I left it where Audyssey set it I could hear more of the nuances in the other speakers--Again I listen to mostly music on my system. That said, I've read where others like to bump it up another 3 dB or so but I'm content at between 80 to 85 dB with notes usually getting no higher than 92 or 94 dB before it gets uncomfortable--In fact I am about to go listen to T-REX "Electric Warrior" DVD-A and a few other disks as soon as I type this.

{Edit Note: For the record, on this material I usually have the main dial on my Denon AVR-4311ci between -18 to -12 to achieve those levels.}
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post #38147 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Depending on your room dynamics, a single PB2000 might be all you need. Two is all just about anyone needs. YMMV


Have you looked into the PSA subs? I think they have a ported model about the same price or like 100$ more, but with a 15" woofer. Worth looking into if you haven't. If not the PB2000 is fine.
Yeah I've seen that but honestly the cheap finish is just really ugly. It might be stupid to consider looks when the output is greater by all accounts, but to get the PSA with a decent finish you are talking pb-12plus money in which case I would go that way. SVS has several in their outlet section for $1200 which seems like a pretty good deal (they have minor physical defects mostly).

In any case, I have a ton of travel over the next 6 weeks or so I won't have time to enjoy anything I buy anyhow - I'm going to hold off until the end of Oct or maybe even see what black friday offers.

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post #38148 of 39649 Old 08-27-2014, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Since the talk is on subwoofers, I assume most everyone here uses Audyssey (or similar RC). Do you make any changes post calibration? If so what?


Just curious.
I use a sms-1 that works pretty good. Its a toy compared to rew but its way better than nothing. I eq all three at the same time. Based on what I see on the screen I then start to tweak the subs. I only use the eq for taming bass peaks. Dips are pretty hard to eq out being that most of them are the room, placement, and lp.

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post #38149 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 06:59 AM
 
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I use a sms-1 that works pretty good. Its a toy compared to rew but its way better than nothing. I eq all three at the same time. Based on what I see on the screen I then start to tweak the subs. I only use the eq for taming bass peaks. Dips are pretty hard to eq out being that most of them are the room, placement, and lp.

The only thing that helps with dips are bass traps, and they usually work wonders. DIY is the best way to go.

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Yeah I've seen that but honestly the cheap finish is just really ugly. It might be stupid to consider looks when the output is greater by all accounts, but to get the PSA with a decent finish you are talking pb-12plus money in which case I would go that way. SVS has several in their outlet section for $1200 which seems like a pretty good deal (they have minor physical defects mostly).

In any case, I have a ton of travel over the next 6 weeks or so I won't have time to enjoy anything I buy anyhow - I'm going to hold off until the end of Oct or maybe even see what black friday offers.

If you haven't seen a PSA in real life, the pictures do it NO justice- TRUST ME. It looks really kinda bass ass. It's kinda like a pick up truck Rhino Liner, but not as rough. SVS doesn't use the same quality vinyl black wood as you'll find on the Reference speakers, but it's close enough. Check out the new PSA XS15se results on Data-Bass.com... all I can say is wow. The room gain in you'll get will get you single digits.

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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
Not me...I admit I used to like the way my RSW-12 &RSW-15 really hit those lower notes loud and the tactile sensation when they did (pre-audyssey) but found if I left it where Audyssey set it I could hear more of the nuances in the other speakers--Again I listen to mostly music on my system. That said, I've read where others like to bump it up another 3 dB or so but I'm content at between 80 to 85 dB with notes usually getting no higher than 92 or 94 dB before it gets uncomfortable--In fact I am about to go listen to T-REX "Electric Warrior" DVD-A and a few other disks as soon as I type this.

{Edit Note: For the record, on this material I usually have the main dial on my Denon AVR-4311ci between -18 to -12 to achieve those levels.}
I'm with ya 100%. I just like for my subs to get me that second gear of bass. I do wish I had subs that hit single digits, but not if the rest of the bass is super loud and drowns out everything else. There are subs that do this. I want it to sound like a movie theater, and many HTs have way, way more bass than any movie theater I've been in.
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post #38150 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 08:08 AM
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That's because we are in a smaller space with much more power per square foot than movie theaters. I think even with my NSD and RW12d even I have more bass than most movie theaters. And even I am looking to upgrade. Home Theater and bluray will always provide more bass in my book. In that way I think new movies are made to be enjoyed at home, not in a huge theater with little bass.

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That's because we are in a smaller space with much more power per square foot than movie theaters. I think even with my NSD and RW12d even I have more bass than most movie theaters. And even I am looking to upgrade. Home Theater and bluray will always provide more bass in my book. In that way I think new movies are made to be enjoyed at home, not in a huge theater with little bass.

Well, I guess I look at it from a different perspective. I'm sure that you do have more bass than a theater, but is that really a good thing? Think about it... The movie engineers primary goal was to make the movie to be enjoyed in a movie theater, with the sound levels a movie theater allows. A very small fraction of people, mostly enthusiasts like us, have equipment that achieve bass levels greater than a theater. So why would they go through the extra effort for the 1%? In any case, for my HT goals, I have no real desire to beat out a theater's bass levels for HT, to any great extent. The theater sound, with a quality sound gear, is the bench mark, and adding to that changes the art IMHO.


I guess it depends on what you consider 'little bass.' I feel that a theater has great linear response and more than enough bass.
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post #38152 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 10:05 AM
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I'm saying that almost to myself so I don't upgrade and save money. But even remembering back to wathing Star Trek into darkness in Imax. I still feel like my relatively inexpensive combo compared to some of yours gives me more. A lot more in the midbass punch due to the RW12d but also just a tad more on the low end. (more than theaters, not YOUR subs)

I honestly don't remember watching Tron Legacy in the movie theaters have feeling like the overhead shot of the flying machines shook and punched at my body. As well as feeling like I was in an actual earthquake watching War of the Worlds at home.

I say all of this trying to convince myself I already have enough damn bass. That's where the movie theater topic came to my mind. If it's "more" than theaters, don't I have enough already?

Having said that I still want a PC-2000. Only because the 2000's came out shortly after I already got my NSD. It's like more for not much more.

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post #38153 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 10:41 AM
 
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I'm saying that almost to myself so I don't upgrade and save money. But even remembering back to wathing Star Trek into darkness in Imax. I still feel like my relatively inexpensive combo compared to some of yours gives me more. A lot more in the midbass punch due to the RW12d but also just a tad more on the low end. (more than theaters, not YOUR subs)

I honestly don't remember watching Tron Legacy in the movie theaters have feeling like the overhead shot of the flying machines shook and punched at my body. As well as feeling like I was in an actual earthquake watching War of the Worlds at home.

I say all of this trying to convince myself I already have enough damn bass. That's where the movie theater topic came to my mind. If it's "more" than theaters, don't I have enough already?

Having said that I still want a PC-2000. Only because the 2000's came out shortly after I already got my NSD. It's like more for not much more.

You bring up an excellent point. While I don't want to exceed the dynamic range of the theater material, home theater does present inherent advantages. I'm trying to get three seats (really one, because no one else in this house cares) to sound great. A theater has to do the same for hundreds. I can aim speakers with greater accuracy so that my surrounds and front stage blend and bullets feel like they are going through you, not just in front or around. If a theater could afford thousands of speakers, they could do this too, and engineers wouldn't have to change the dynamics or engineering of the recording.


You're correct that the new SVS line isn't much more than the older one you already have. I think many folks get bit into a sort of 'bass debauchery' chasing more and more bass that already far exceeds anything linear with the rest of the material that they are listening to.


I have two SW-112s, I know, I shame the family because I didn't go the internet direct route. There's a reason for my purchase that I won't go into, but whatever material I missing out on, I'm personally not really missing. I refuse to play the game I mentioned above. Room gain gets me kissing the threshold of 20hz, and that's more than enough for me.
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post #38154 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 10:53 AM
 
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Anyone else here watch college football?


Just a few more hours!!!!
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post #38155 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 11:00 AM
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Yep; already watching pre-game.
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post #38156 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 11:02 AM
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First year watching with 13.2: ALL Klipsch!
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post #38157 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 11:45 AM
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Yes that's absolutely right CT. With such a small listening area and speakers pointed exactly where they need to be. Once I got my x4000 I was amazed at how "blended" the soundtrack sounded. It sounded as if things were just there, like a very pure blended soundtrack where you almost don't even notice the speakers.

It's this focus on such a small area and the fact that most of us have larger speakers and subwoofer per air volume than theaters. It's those reasons I think HT is actually a better experience than Theaters. Because it's focused. Well except for the huge screen, but many people rival that with their 150" projectors they use.

I'm extremely happy with my 70" though and my klipsch and SVS that I hardly ever go out to movies unless it's a movie I'm super hyped for.

I'd rather put that $20 into the bluray the day it is released. Speaking of, I still need to watch the Amazing Spiderman 2 3D when I get a day off.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #38158 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
..You're correct that the new SVS line isn't much more than the older one you already have. I think many folks get bit into a sort of 'bass debauchery' chasing more and more bass that already far exceeds anything linear with the rest of the material that they are listening to.


I have two SW-112s, I know, I shame the family because I didn't go the internet direct route. There's a reason for my purchase that I won't go into, but whatever material I missing out on, I'm personally not really missing. I refuse to play the game I mentioned above. Room gain gets me kissing the threshold of 20hz, and that's more than enough for me.
Ya know, the internet is a great place but otoh, I also thinks it's important to set certain facts right. That's why imo, the recent controversy dealing with another posters comments needed to be addressed is because people do link to comments, sometimes without critical evaluation...Once it's on the internet it becomes "fact" for some folks and another example is "Klipsch doesn't make good subs."

I totally agree that the ID companies are now making comparable (even better) products at really good prices...That said I sit about 5 feet from our front (positioned in not such a great position) Klipsch RSW-12 http://www.klipsch.com/rsw-12-subwoofer/details and about 5 ft from our rear RSW-15 http://www.klipsch.com/rsw-15-subwoofer/details and both have served us well for over 12 years and neither's gain is higher than 1/4 volume so they don't even break a sweat in our less than 2,000 cu ft room at Reference level.
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post #38159 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 12:43 PM
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Hey guys, have a question for you.
I currently use a pair of RF-15 towers for my main LR
I have an opportunity to pick up a pair of KG 5.5 towers for cheap.

Which set would you guys prefer?

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KG 5.5's
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BIC F-12's

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post #38160 of 39649 Old 08-28-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by evan1242 View Post
Hey guys, have a question for you.
I currently use a pair of RF-15 towers for my main LR
I have an opportunity to pick up a pair of KG 10.5 towers for cheap.

Which set would you guys prefer?

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I won't give a preference but if these are going to be used for Home theater you also want to consider what you are using as a Center channel and future upgrades.
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