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post #38731 of 38756 Old Yesterday, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tasdom View Post
How's the pro line treating you Ryan
Pretty cool bro. Been trying to decide if I should change out the rears.
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post #38732 of 38756 Old Today, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sikclown View Post
Is an inch enough space to give the rear port? I don't know the answer, just curious.
The honest answer is no. however, ports are for the sub, not the tweeter, and I generally let the sub do all the bass work on home theatre. HOWEVER, with the X5200W I will be testing that theory and I wanted to leave at least some space off the ceiling for air to not completely screw it all up. My ceilings are only 8 feet tall, so after the 12 inches I'm giving for the length of the speaker there's not a ton of space between that speaker and my ears. I really can't give it the 6 inches Klipsch wants me to give it. When all is said and done it may be slightly more than an inch of clearance, and the good news it that the area between the speaker and the ceiling will be completely free (i.e. not enclosed like a....bookshelf!), so I'm pretty sure the speaker will do ok in the environment I'm putting it in. Irregardless, I will be reporting if I encounter problems with the way it sounds.


Honestly the biggest issue I had was the dispersion angles that Dolby wants...which is 90 degrees from the axis. The RB51's are 90x60.
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post #38733 of 38756 Old Today, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
I have never had Chorus IIs, but curiously found that folks haven't liked the Academy Center channel when compared to the KLF- C7...On the Klipsch Forum there are quite a few folks that prefer the latter--that said, I have a C7 between KLF -20s and it sounds good but when I was running an RC-7 from the Reference line with those felt it sounded cleaner... Of course, YMMV, but I have never been fond of the Hersey comparatively speaking with the footprint it takes up.
The C7 has a poly diaphragm in that 10" tweeter horn, had they replaced it with a Ti the test would have been different.

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post #38734 of 38756 Old Today, 05:50 AM
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If someone came in and said they prefer their, Magnapans, or Vandersteens (or some such) for music compared to the Klipsch for only HT, I'd be all over it. My plan is to have a music listening room with Vandersteen 2CEsigIIs all analogue, so I could see going non-Klipsch for music. I have similar plans.


But when the poster busted out about his Cerwin Vegas I had an 'AM coffee all over the keyboard moment.'

I mean, you can't make this up.


By all means I'm sure the Vegas sound fine, but that is comedy.
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post #38735 of 38756 Old Today, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by krozman View Post
The honest answer is no. however, ports are for the sub, not the tweeter, and I generally let the sub do all the bass work on home theatre. HOWEVER, with the X5200W I will be testing that theory and I wanted to leave at least some space off the ceiling for air to not completely screw it all up. My ceilings are only 8 feet tall, so after the 12 inches I'm giving for the length of the speaker there's not a ton of space between that speaker and my ears. I really can't give it the 6 inches Klipsch wants me to give it. When all is said and done it may be slightly more than an inch of clearance, and the good news it that the area between the speaker and the ceiling will be completely free (i.e. not enclosed like a....bookshelf!), so I'm pretty sure the speaker will do ok in the environment I'm putting it in. Irregardless, I will be reporting if I encounter problems with the way it sounds.


Honestly the biggest issue I had was the dispersion angles that Dolby wants...which is 90 degrees from the axis. The RB51's are 90x60.

The rear port on RB 51 IIs lets out very little air ran at large, as mains. For the purpose of Atmos, the demands on it will be very minimal. People get a bit to hyped up over the rear ports on those things. It's not that big of deal especially for Atmos application. You're just hearing ambiance.
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post #38736 of 38756 Old Today, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
If someone came in and said they prefer their, Magnapans, or Vandersteens (or some such) for music compared to the Klipsch for only HT...

or Deaf Tech, I'd be RoFL, & in my best Bugs Bunny voice "what a moron"...
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post #38737 of 38756 Old Today, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post
or Deaf Tech, I'd be RoFL, & in my best Bugs Bunny voice "what a moron"...
I love my Klipsch for HT, but don't keep me away from my Fisher Stack upstairs. It just speaks to me.


<joke>
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post #38738 of 38756 Old Today, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
The rear port on RB 51 IIs lets out very little air ran at large, as mains. For the purpose of Atmos, the demands on it will be very minimal. People get a bit to hyped up over the rear ports on those things. It's not that big of deal especially for Atmos application. You're just hearing ambiance.
Monsters popping here and there in 3D space will be more than ambiance sound. That's why Dolby recommends full range surrounds if possible, else do a proper base management. Why do the rear ports on each speaker matter when the lows are bass-managed to the subwoofers?
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post #38739 of 38756 Old Today, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Monsters popping here and there in 3D space will be more than ambiance sound. That's why Dolby recommends full range surrounds if possible, else do a proper base management. Why do the rear ports on each speaker matter when the lows are bass-managed to the subwoofers?


Monsters popping here and there in 3D space will be more than ambiance sound.


I haven't heard it yet, so I could be wrong, but I'd hope that the Atmos channels don't draw that much attention to themselves. I still like a strong front stage. I'm old school I guess.


That's why Dolby recommends full range surrounds if possible, else do a proper base management.


If Dolby thinks I, or anyone else, is going to hang towers from the ceiling then they are outside of their minds. Of course everyone will use bookshelfish, or 'reflected design' type speakers, with proper receiver bass management. I'm not sure what this has to do with RB 51 IIs however.


Why do the rear ports on each speaker matter when the lows are bass-managed to the subwoofers?


The rear ports are part of how the speaker maintains and achieves lower frequencies (sound not done by the tweeter), without further demands on woofer excursion, power demands, and cabinet size. In my experience, the direction of the port matters little. I've seen speakers with front firing ports need ample space from boundaries to tighten bass, and rear firing ports need practically no space. Remember, bass radiates from the speaker like a sphere. The port is simply a mechanism which creates bass. If a port itself demands more space, like more than a few inches, then your bass radiation is less spherical, and to me that's less desirable.


When you're using bass management, let's say crossed at 80hz, the speaker is still using it's woofers to a great deal, and thus still using it's port. Remember that the 80hz isn't a brick wall. The speaker is still playing or trying to play sounds down to probably 30-40 hz, due to the roll off of the cross over. The higher the order the cross over, the steeper the roll off.

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post #38740 of 38756 Old Today, 07:35 AM
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I am holding off of Atmos right now because funds are being used elsewhere but will say having larger speakers all of the way around doesn't take away from the front soundstage...Honestly, when the lights are off and we are watching a movie we never think about speakers but being caught up in the action or scene. When I am listening to multichannel music I can't describe how sublime it is to hear the mixes coming from all the appropriate directions and with seamless bass management we never think about the subwoofers.

That said, I am not sure if you set the crossover at 80 Hz (mine is set at 60 Hz for most speakers) frequencies as low as 30 to 40 Hz are going to be reproduced from those speakers because that is considerably further down the slope, but agree that the crossover number is not a' brick wall' as they say.
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post #38741 of 38756 Old Today, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Louis Bartay View Post
The C7 has a poly diaphragm in that 10" tweeter horn, had they replaced it with a Ti the test would have been different.
I can't argue against that and feel the C-7 still sounds good between the two KLF-20s, which all are stock...I met Bob and his son in Hope at one of the Pilgrimages and was amazed how fast and clean they did the crossovers in front of us on a K-horn...Since then we've had numerous conversations in another venue but never got around to asking him about doing any work on these speakers because he would probably talk me into it.

{EDIT Note: These speakers are not used for critical listening and are in our workout room--That said, they still sound most excellent.}
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post #38742 of 38756 Old Today, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
If someone came in and said they prefer their, Magnapans, or Vandersteens (or some such) for music compared to the Klipsch for only HT, I'd be all over it. My plan is to have a music listening room with Vandersteen 2CEsigIIs all analogue, so I could see going non-Klipsch for music. I have similar plans.


But when the poster busted out about his Cerwin Vegas I had an 'AM coffee all over the keyboard moment.'

I mean, you can't make this up.


By all means I'm sure the Vegas sound fine, but that is comedy.
I did actually replace the Vegas for my home theatre, and it was a world of difference for my HT. So I know you are right. But there's something about those things for music that just make me enjoy it more.......(queue the old guy who prefers his skippy scratchy record over FLAC file comments).
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post #38743 of 38756 Old Today, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I love my Klipsch for HT, but don't keep me away from my Fisher Stack upstairs. It just speaks to me.


<joke>
I love the irony in this sentiment--Before I got into this hobby all I had was a small tv where I spent a considerable amount of time watching the news and C-span while doing research on various topics that interested me (another reason I don't watch sports on tv). I had a separate stereo system that actually was a fischer setup which I also enjoyed immensely. When I traveled back to Arkansas to visit friends, two of them had nice sound systems along with monster TVs and made fun of them even though I had to admit their picture quality was better than mine but didn't think the sound was worth what they paid for it.....My, how times have changed.

The last time they traveled to my house, one of the guys had moved to Ireland and was coming back to visit, and they drove to Texas from Little Rock--On the drive back the guy who moved to Ireland commented to my other friend it was like he had to go into decompression from what he had just witnessed! LOL.
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Originally Posted by krozman View Post
I did actually replace the Vegas for my home theatre, and it was a world of difference for my HT. So I know you are right. But there's something about those things for music that just make me enjoy it more.......(queue the old guy who prefers his skippy scratchy record over FLAC file comments).


See if there's a Vandersteen dealer in your area. I love vinyl just as much as the next guy. Trust me on this one.
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post #38745 of 38756 Old Today, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by krozman View Post
I did actually replace the Vegas for my home theatre, and it was a world of difference for my HT. So I know you are right. But there's something about those things for music that just make me enjoy it more.......(queue the old guy who prefers his skippy scratchy record over FLAC file comments).
Another old guy here that is into vinyl and R2R. I have two seperate system in my HT room as I use my old Cornwalls as fronts for my 5.2 and for analog stereo. They have been my go to speakers for over 35 years now. I had a pair of Cerwin Vega AT-15 I purchased new in the late 80's for the shop and loud R&R. The Vegas's just did not have the mids and highs as clear as my Cornwalls or Heresy II IMHO. But they do NOT need a sub with a Big amp. I gave them to my son when I quit welding and working on motorcycles. Now the red foam surrounds on the 15" woofers need to be replaced For loud R&R the AT-15's are Great. I do have some FLAC CD's that have good dynamics and some of my Lp's have zero bass, it's a crap shoot on both.

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post #38746 of 38756 Old Today, 08:16 AM
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just installed my new klf 30 s back together and sat down listening to all channel stereo 7.1 ,the biggest compliment i could get was my wife saying 'turn it up i really love how they all sound' .big smile on my face .....
the set is complete guys 4 klf 30 s and a klf 20 ,c7 make the balance in all channel stereo truly sublime .......
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post #38747 of 38756 Old Today, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
I am holding off of Atmos right now because funds are being used elsewhere but will say having larger speakers all of the way around doesn't take away from the front soundstage...Honestly, when the lights are off and we are watching a movie we never think about speakers but being caught up in the action or scene. When I am listening to multichannel music I can't describe how sublime it is to hear the mixes coming from all the appropriate directions and with seamless bass management we never think about the subwoofers.

That said, I am not sure if you set the crossover at 80 Hz (mine is set at 60 Hz for most speakers) frequencies as low as 30 to 40 Hz are going to be reproduced from those speakers because that is considerably further down the slope, but agree that the crossover number is not a' brick wall' as they say.

I never said that usage of 'large' speakers for surrounds takes away from the front stage. The biggest challenge for most would be added space. I also want my surrounds to be projecting at about 5 feet from the floor, that's a bit high, even for a tower.


80hz is the level suggested by THX/Dolby etal. I've gone as high as 100 or even 120; even with towers. This is when the sub is very powerful, and has limited distortion characteristics. I also make sure the sub is placed between the mains.


That said, if we are talking a typical receiver crossover found in AVR bass management, your speakers will still be getting sounds one octave below the setting. If you set your crossover at 80hz, then that means your speakers will still be getting sounds down to 40 hz.
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post #38748 of 38756 Old Today, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Louis Bartay View Post
Another old guy here that is into vinyl and R2R. I have two seperate system in my HT room as I use my old Cornwalls as fronts for my 5.2 and for analog stereo. They have been my go to speakers for over 35 years now. I had a pair of Cerwin Vega AT-15 I purchased new in the late 80's for the shop and loud R&R. The Vegas's just did not have the mids and highs as clear as my Cornwalls or Heresy II IMHO. But they do NOT need a sub with a Big amp. I gave them to my son when I quit welding and working on motorcycles. Now the red foam surrounds on the 15" woofers need to be replaced For loud R&R the AT-15's are Great. I do have some FLAC CD's that have good dynamics and some of my Lp's have zero bass, it's a crap shoot on both.
This is a good time to remind everyone that how the record is engineered is vastly more important than the final format which reproduces it. There are countless Mp3s which sound better than vinyl.
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post #38749 of 38756 Old Today, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I never said that usage of 'large' speakers for surrounds takes away from the front stage. The biggest challenge for most would be added space. I also want my surrounds to be projecting at about 5 feet from the floor, that's a bit high, even for a tower.


80hz is the level suggested by THX/Dolby etal. I've gone as high as 100 or even 120; even with towers. This is when the sub is very powerful, and has limited distortion characteristics. I also make sure the sub is placed between the mains....

I agree about the size of towers as surrounds being an obstacle...I also don't have the luxury of putting a sub between my mains up front so I have one in a less than optimal space in front of a (unused) fireplace and a rear sub in a corner location behind--Both within 5 to 6' of the LP...We sit close to the side surround speakers (4' to 5') which are RF-3s raised about 11" which make the tweeters slightly above ear level and make them the same height as our RF-7s up front. Both the RC-7 and the Rear RB-75s are angled towards the LP...

There are currently some logistical problems that we are dealing with having gotten rid of our broken RP 65" where the center worked nicely on top and replaced it with a smaller plasma which we are still trying to configure up front, along with the RC-7--Right now the speakers are where they need to be but hopefully this week I will be able to remedy the tv situation and put the center in a more permanent place...Needless to say the aesthetics aren't up to par at this point in time.
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post #38750 of 38756 Old Today, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by malmstump View Post
just installed my new klf 30 s back together and sat down listening to all channel stereo 7.1 ,the biggest compliment i could get was my wife saying 'turn it up i really love how they all sound' .big smile on my face .....
the set is complete guys 4 klf 30 s and a klf 20 ,c7 make the balance in all channel stereo truly sublime .......
I really like the KLF20/30 as I have a good friend that has 4 of the 20/C7 SVS PB 13 Ultra that is GREAT for all on for music and Blurays are Awesome on his 55" flat screen. I like the 30's with the two Heresy 12" replacement woofers that Bob Crites sells and the Ti diaphragms. Shame my HT/stereo room opens up to the dining room and kitchen I don't have room for rear towers or even use my HII as rears. You will have to spend BIG bucks to kick your system to the curb. Enjoy..... you have a great system and for the money spent for used it's a deal for sure.

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post #38751 of 38756 Old Today, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I wouldn't say totally different, but no it's not identical. You asked what I'd suggest and I suggested.

According to me? What? I'm not following you.
You said that the center should be of the same series.
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post #38752 of 38756 Old Today, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
I have never had Chorus IIs, but curiously found that folks haven't liked the Academy Center channel when compared to the KLF- C7...On the Klipsch Forum there are quite a few folks that prefer the latter--that said, I have a C7 between KLF -20s and it sounds good but when I was running an RC-7 from the Reference line with those felt it sounded cleaner... Of course, YMMV, but I have never been fond of the Hersey comparatively speaking with the footprint it takes up.
I can't wait to fire up my C7. The Chorus II's have the K-79 tweeter and a huge mid horn. 101db sensitivity. They kick some ass. Youthman did a comparable between the Chorus II and the RF-7 II. He preferred the RF-7 II.
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post #38753 of 38756 Old Today, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
You said that the center should be of the same series.


I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but I thought it was pretty obvious. We all knew that your speaker lacks a specific center channel, so you were looking for the best 'suggestion.' So I suggested the Heresy, as did several others. Your speakers were made for 2 channel stereo, not that it can't be used for HT, but you'll need to make some (very slight) concessions.

Because your speaker doesn't have a center channel doesn't negate my advice to the OP about center channel selection. It's completely beside the point.


Best of luck to ya.
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post #38754 of 38756 Old Today, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by krozman View Post
My setup is soon to be 7.1.4, but 100% of the speakers (minus sub) are Reference II line Klipsch. Perfect for home theatre. Horrible for music.
To each their own when it comes to what sounds horrible,. But, I guess I have no idea what's horrible about Klipsch Reference speakers for music. Although not specifically Reference II's, my RF-83's/RC-64 (Reference I's I guess) amaze my family and guests every time I play music on them. I'm not really being parochial because I bought them. It's actually the other way around, I bought them because they sounded so good for music and movies .

Again, to each their own but would you mind sharing what you dislike about them for music?
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Originally Posted by lflorack View Post
To each their own when it comes to what sounds horrible,. But, I guess I have no idea what's horrible about Klipsch Reference speakers for music. Although not specifically Reference II's, my RF-83's/RC-64 (Reference I's I guess) amaze my family and guests every time I play music on them. I'm not really being parochial because I bought them. It's actually the other way around, I bought them because they sounded so good for music and movies .

Again, to each their own but would you mind sharing what you dislike about them for music?
I agree ... too each his own. RF-83 and RC-64 are Great speakers for HT and stereo music, add a decent sub with the RF-83 for stereo

I wanted the RC-64 when I had a used pair of older RF-7 I sold as I liked my Cornwalls a little bit better with the Yamaha AVR I have. The guy I sold the RF-7 too has a more powerful amp and WOW they sound better in his den.He went with the RC-64 and KLF20 for rears with Ti diaphragms for his 5.1 HT and they sound really GOOD.

EDIT I now have two more powerful Hafler P3000 150X2 Pro MOSFET amps that I cam bridge to 400 watts mono if I want. These would have been awesome on the RF-7s. I have one P3000 hooked up to my AVR to run the Cornwall fronts and the other mated with the matching Pre/amp and turner for analog stereo.

Klipsch Cornwall I,C7,RS3-II
Klipsch Heresy II, KSB 1.1
Klipsch Sub 12" X3 Hafler P3000,P1000, DH330 DH110
Yamaha RX-V1900, T-1000,A-1000 Class A, GE-20 GEQ CDC-697
ReVox A-77 Mk IV Dolby, Nakamichi BX-100 PL-518X DL103R

Last edited by Louis Bartay; Today at 10:16 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but I thought it was pretty obvious. We all knew that your speaker lacks a specific center channel, so you were looking for the best 'suggestion.' So I suggested the Heresy, as did several others. Your speakers were made for 2 channel stereo, not that it can't be used for HT, but you'll need to make some (very slight) concessions.

Because your speaker doesn't have a center channel doesn't negate my advice to the OP about center channel selection. It's completely beside the point.


Best of luck to ya.
The point I was trying to make is that a center doesn't necessarily have to be from the same series as the mains.

I know we differ on pretty much everything. Just trying to give another point of view.

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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