Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 1107 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #33181 of 33204 Old 12-05-2016, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by no quarter View Post
Well I guess you can sell your center channel then,I will be keeping mine.
Even I were to buy Contour C30s at some point I won't get rid of my 210C! I have 5 people watching tv and so having the dialogue pinned to the center of the tv is important. Not to mention to upgrade to the C25 or Confidence Center just isn't justifiable to me. For its size and performance its value is unmatched.

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post #33182 of 33204 Old 12-05-2016, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
Even I were to buy Contour C30s at some point I won't get rid of my 210C! I have 5 people watching tv and so having the dialogue pinned to the center of the tv is important. Not to mention to upgrade to the C25 or Confidence Center just isn't justifiable to me. For its size and performance its value is unmatched.
I don't get it,first you call my post incorrect,where I say that I believe having a center is more accurate than "phantom center"...so I say you might as well sell it then if there is no difference.Then you say there is no way you would get rid of it because you like the pin point center image???Am I missing something here?

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post #33183 of 33204 Old 12-05-2016, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
My experience in this hobby so far is that regardless of whether you spent $5k or $50k on your system, people will think you’re nuts for spending whatever you did.

I picked up my Focus 160s for $2k when they were discontinued. They offer more performance per dollar than anything else I’ve owned. I was raving about their value at a party to a couple friends who are somewhat into audio and the other people around the party thought I was crazy for spending $2k on speakers. I told them the last pair of speakers I had downstairs cost $9200 (list) and then they look at me like I’m a leper and walk away from the conversation.

I’ve tried to talk a few non-audiophile friends into Sonos but they usually say something like “that’s way too expensive for me, I’m not an audiophile”. I’ve even met a few people who think Bose is “the top of the line” and their Lifestyle system is as good as it gets. They don’t think that some small company they never heard of could make something better.

I have friends who have owned toys like $45k convertibles, luxury SUVs, $30k Harleys, boats, $15k garden tractors, etc. and people think nothing of it. But these days, if you buy anything more than a basic soundbar or wireless speaker you are labeled an audiophile and assumed to have a screw loose. Unless you are a vinyl collecting urban hipster, then it’s cool.
For sure and even in this thread. Folks wanting to cheap out on the center channel. I am so completely the opposite on this subject. But my love is concerts over stereo. An awesome center is the coolest!

Thank goodness Dynaudio and KEF builds some great ones.

But it's funny the center gets no love.

Rick
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post #33184 of 33204 Old 12-05-2016, 10:39 PM
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I'm so confused by Dynaudio driver names / specs.

First, we seem to have model lines, like:

Esotar
Esotec+
Esotec

And then we have driver designations like...

18W75

...which seems to denote driver diameter and voicecoil diameter.

What's the secret decoder ring to decipher all of these?
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post #33185 of 33204 Old 12-05-2016, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post
For sure and even in this thread. Folks wanting to cheap out on the center channel. I am so completely the opposite on this subject. But my love is concerts over stereo. An awesome center is the coolest!

Thank goodness Dynaudio and KEF builds some great ones.

But it's funny the center gets no love.

Rick
I completely agree 100%.

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post #33186 of 33204 Old 12-05-2016, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no quarter View Post
I don't get it,first you call my post incorrect,where I say that I believe having a center is more accurate than "phantom center"...so I say you might as well sell it then if there is no difference.Then you say there is no way you would get rid of it because you like the pin point center image???Am I missing something here?
Your missing a "CENTER CHANNEL" LOL All kidding aside I like having one, I tried it both ways and the voices seem more accurate coming from under my 100" screen verses setting it up Phantom mode... I just wheel my Center channel out when I want to use it during movies.
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post #33187 of 33204 Old 12-05-2016, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by no quarter View Post
I don't get it,first you call my post incorrect,where I say that I believe having a center is more accurate than "phantom center"...so I say you might as well sell it then if there is no difference.Then you say there is no way you would get rid of it because you like the pin point center image???Am I missing something here?
Let me speak hopefully more thoughtfully. Basically a phantom center is created because the downmix makes a mono signal of the center channel and pushes it through the L&R speakers. Any speaker of good quality should delineate the signals well enough that you won't "miss" the center channel if there 1-2 people listening.

I won't give up my center channel because there's often 4-5 people watching tv at my house in the main room. Since we sit width-wise the center channel keeps the dialog anchored to the center and makes it a more enjoyable listening experience for everyone. The 210C has clarity and punch, so good that I don't see the need to pay double to go up the ladder. Sure there are advantages that going up the ladder can offer, however when we discuss value the 210C is hard to beat. Hell the X22 Center was great with dialog but lacked the low end dynamics.

Also, I never said I wanted or didn't want the center channel, I have one for a reason, but sans the CC phantom mode can still sound really good.

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post #33188 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 06:08 AM
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I have an idea, if you do not like your center get rid of it. You do not have to justify it with anyone here or convince them to do the same or why. Whether it is a matter of the size, space, cost whatever. My home theater is small, 11ft wide X 22ft long with 5 theater seats 2 rows, using the Scansonic MB-C with the SS MB-2.5 and I would not go without that center. The center in my setup truly gets a work out. JMO Remember like Garmen says if it sounds good to your ears that is all that matters!!!
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post #33189 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 08:49 AM
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I've never heard Raidhos but I'm sure they're fantastic. That said, I don't see how I could square these two statements on a speaker at their price level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
.the cabinets are made in China for the ho's ..... Raidho diamond series are a cost is no object speaker.
Would it not be more expensive / desirable for the cabinet to made in Denmark? Isn't that the definition of cost no object?

On the other hand, if Raidho has found in China the world's finest cabinet maker, they should make that clear and sell it the way Dynaudio proudly sells its "made in Denmark" status. After all, some fantastic gear is being made in China, and I've posted in this very thread about Line Magnetic.
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post #33190 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
The Ho's use Titanium wire in the voice coils for starters. Dyn uses aluminum wire in theirs (even cheaper than copper). .
Im sure nobody really cares, but dyn surely uses aluminum not to save .03 cents per speaker over CU (or 50 cents over Ti) but because it is much less dense than CU (or Ti). This is especially important with their gigantic voice coils. Keeping the mass down allows the speaker motor to have better control of the assembly. Cu has better electrical and thermal conductivity than AL buy a factor of around 2 (I think) but that is based on geometry not weight. Im not really sure why you would use titanium as an electrical conductor in this application really, but I certainly don't know the details. It has high strength to weight (depending on alloy of course), but that doesn't help you much in a voicecoil. The thermal and electrical conductivities are poor. It does have a higher melting point than copper, which it will need from the resistance heating that will occur.
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post #33191 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 09:25 AM
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That giant solid aluminum baffle on the front isn't light, larger drivers 24cm vs. 20 in the C4, and the enclosure has a similar surface area as the C4 (C60 is ~5% less) so yeah I can totally see them weighing close to the same...

I'm REALLY looking forward to hearing them in the next couple months when the local shop gets them! I just wish they weren't so set on only selling at MSRP...
I demoed a pair of C30's last week, truly a 'work of art" in appearance and performance.

I've never done business with this dealer before, so I thought I would ask about actual "cash price".

Was told that Dynaudio had invested over 1M in the new Contour line and that MSRP was the price...period.

I know the Contour line is the latest and greatest.

While I'm always looking for a bargain, I will probably pony up for a pair of the C30's, they are xceptional in every aspect.
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Im sure nobody really cares, but dyn surely uses aluminum not to save .03 cents per speaker over CU (or 50 cents over Ti) but because it is much less dense than CU (or Ti). This is especially important with their gigantic voice coils. Keeping the mass down allows the speaker motor to have better control of the assembly. Cu has better electrical and thermal conductivity than AL buy a factor of around 2 (I think) but that is based on geometry not weight. Im not really sure why you would use titanium as an electrical conductor in this application really, but I certainly don't know the details. It has high strength to weight (depending on alloy of course), but that doesn't help you much in a voicecoil. The thermal and electrical conductivities are poor. It does have a higher melting point than copper, which it will need from the resistance heating that will occur.
They probably use titanium for the voice coil former, not for the wire. As you said, using titanium for the wire doesn't make any sense.
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post #33193 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM
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I demoed a pair of C30's last week, truly a 'work of art" in appearance and performance.

I've never done business with this dealer before, so I thought I would ask about actual "cash price".

Was told that Dynaudio had invested over 1M in the new Contour line and that MSRP was the price...period.

I know the Contour line is the latest and greatest.

While I'm always looking for a bargain, I will probably pony up for a pair of the C30's, they are xceptional in every aspect.

What did they drive them with? Did you hear the 20 too?

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post #33194 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 03:50 PM
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What did they drive them with? Did you hear the 20 too?
A very nice Integrated that I cant tell you the name of, S.S. for sure. The 30's were the only model they had in stock, I would have loved to have heard the 20's and the 60's also.

I can tell you this, you don't have to close your eyes for the speakers to disappear, the staging and imaging were incredible, and smooth as Buttah.

They also had some huge Focal's driven by a mega Boulder amp. that really didn't better the C30's by much at all.

The 30's will be my next speaker, just not available in the color I want.not yet anyway.
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post #33195 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM
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A very nice Integrated that I cant tell you the name of, S.S. for sure. The 30's were the only model they had in stock, I would have loved to have heard the 20's and the 60's also.

I can tell you this, you don't have to close your eyes for the speakers to disappear, the staging and imaging were incredible, and smooth as Buttah.

They also had some huge Focal's driven by a mega Boulder amp. that really didn't better the C30's by much at all.

The 30's will be my next speaker, just not available in the color I want.not yet anyway.
Totally glad to read those line, it's been a long wait for me since I pre-ordered, hopefully next week I'll have a nice surprise.

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Totally glad to read those line, it's been a long wait for me since I pre-ordered, hopefully next week I'll have a nice surprise.
Are you still pursuing the Naim gear for the C30's?

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post #33197 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 09:13 PM
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Are you still pursuing the Naim gear for the C30's?
Still a possibility, you know I am eying on a DR right now but I'll have to wait, I'll see if I can get them to meet the price I would like to pay for it I might just give a deposit on that DR and wait to complete payment as I also bought a new TV. For me the speakers and the TV make a huge hole in my bank account .

If I ever get to the DR I will see for a trade in same if I can find a NAC272. There a few Naim dealers in Montreal that cary Naim so I can certainly find one in Montreal. I haven't counted out Bryston cube amps, I wonder if Chris could give some feedback here or Should I just turn to ESAC?

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post #33198 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 09:17 PM
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Still a possibility, you know I am eying on a DR right now but I'll have to wait, I'll see if I can get them to meet the price I would like to pay for it I might just give a deposit on that DR and wait to complete payment as I also bought a new TV. For me the speakers and the TV make a huge hole in my bank account .

If I ever get to the DR I will see for a trade in same if I can find a NAC272. There a few Naim dealers in Montreal that cary Naim so I can certainly find one in Montreal. I haven't counted out Bryston cube amps, I wonder if Chris could give some feedback here or Should I just turn to ESAC?
Actually he has just put up his old ARC gear up for sale at ESAC,since he now uses Devialet...he does not pop in here too often.

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post #33199 of 33204 Old Yesterday, 09:25 PM
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Actually he has just put up his old ARC gear up for sale at ESAC,since he now uses Devialet...he does not pop in here too often.
Just registered to ESAC I'll pop the question to him, He seems to be changing gear a lot

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post #33200 of 33204 Old Today, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Matro5 View Post
I've never heard Raidhos but I'm sure they're fantastic. That said, I don't see how I could square these two statements on a speaker at their price level.



Would it not be more expensive / desirable for the cabinet to made in Denmark? Isn't that the definition of cost no object?

On the other hand, if Raidho has found in China the world's finest cabinet maker, they should make that clear and sell it the way Dynaudio proudly sells its "made in Denmark" status. After all, some fantastic gear is being made in China, and I've posted in this very thread about Line Magnetic.
China does have some highly skilled woodworkers just like any country. My D2.1's are Walnut Burl and the wood comes from Italy. Being Burl you can't get very large pieces and there are 8 panels on each side. They make some really cool designs with all the pieces and the sides of the speakers are 'bookends'. The clearcoat is 3mm thick and the finish looks really deep. I'm sure if Borderdog looked them over even he would honestly give them a thumbs up regarding quality. I've seen his work and it is excellent. I asked Lars why are the cabinets made in China and he said the labor cost was a lot higher being made in house and if they had a high rejection rate and he said no. Anyhow the retail cost of Raidho's are pricey enough and would probably be a lot higher if the cabinets were made in house.
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George: I think what most people have a hard time with is when you mention inexpensive Chinese labor and then a high prices speakers! Until China feels the wrath of rules in regulations like Denmark/UK and actually values their skilled laborers, we might have a even playing field. I have no doubt they are built well and sound good I have seen that first hand, the problem is convince people they are worth that much, when they use labor that doesn't cost much.. I think even if the Cabinets where made in Denmark the cost would still be around the same, just less profit! The problem with most manufacturers at times they will never really spell out what their overall cost are and what they are making... I have said it before and will say it again the whole, lets build it cheaper some where else then turn around and charge astronomical prices is beyond comprehension... Example: North Face Company moved all of they manafuactuering over to China years ago, did they charge less for their jackets, no... They charge about the same and more...It's very difficult to explain having things built in China and the high cost of some thing, hell even American Audio companies are getting it, having stuff actually made hear, example: Belles Audio and Rogue Audio, two companies that make great sounding products made in our back yard.

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post #33202 of 33204 Old Today, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
I asked Lars why are the cabinets made in China and he said the labor cost was a lot higher being made in house and if they had a high rejection rate and he said no. Anyhow the retail cost of Raidho's are pricey enough and would probably be a lot higher if the cabinets were made in house.
This all makes sense. I have no doubt of the quality of the workmanship, but the decision to make the cabinets in China is, according to Raidho, a cost-saving measure. My point is, that means this is very clearly NOT a "cost is no object" speaker.

I'm sure it still sounds fantastic though.
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post #33203 of 33204 Old Today, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Matro5 View Post
This all makes sense. I have no doubt of the quality of the workmanship, but the decision to make the cabinets in China is, according to Raidho, a cost-saving measure. My point is, that means this is very clearly NOT a "cost is no object" speaker.

I'm sure it still sounds fantastic though.
The drivers (which are build in house) are a cost is no object product, not the overall product...
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post #33204 of 33204 Old Today, 09:42 AM
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The drivers (which are build in house) are a cost is no object product, not the overall product...
That may be true, but it's moving the goalposts. This is what I was responding to, from OctaDynDude.

"Raidho diamond series are a cost is no object speaker..."
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