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post #34471 of 34499 Old Yesterday, 07:44 PM
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I agree with the others, the first time we heard the C60's at ProMusica I was quite disappointed, however once we went to the 12th floor both rooms sounded much better and they really shined in the bigger conference room however still not enough to move me from the C4's...

Of the other rooms we went to I was quite impressed by the Magico's although on the track that was playing when we first went in they did sound a bit boomy, but the rest of the time they were quite nice, other than I didn't not like that the source was a turntable, I'm still not a fan of the snap crackle and pop associated with them...

Hegel made a very poor choice in using the KEF Blade 2's IMHO, they were so bright that it was distracting from anything else, although before I really gave up on it the lows and midrange was quite nice, such a shame though I was really looking forward to hearing their stuff...

Ryan had a very smooth and laid back sound to me, I could sit and listen to them all day.

I wasn't really able to go back and listen to the Schiit Vidar in action powering the Salk Song3's but from the couple minutes that I listened to them it sounded quite promising.

By far my favorite part of the show though was the 2nd time I went back to the Raidho/Aavik/Ansus room... We got to hear an A/B comparison of the C1.2 and D1.1 the C1.2's are surprisingly close to the D1.1's but the D1.1's have an amazing sound that just blew me away. I couldn't believe how big the sound stage was with them and how they just disappeared! Even when one of the press guys asked to play a few songs off a disc he brought to demo they were phenomenal, no cherry picking songs here! While I'm quite happy with my C4's I am definitely convinced that I will be venturing into the Raidho realm sooner or later...
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post #34472 of 34499 Old Yesterday, 08:35 PM
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Yonson,

It would be nice to hear the D1.1 with some different equipment.... Granted I am a fan, and I have ventured into that realm for a bit with the Scansonics, I loved the D1.1 but they where using some pretty hefty Pre/Amps and Amps, that cost a crapload and as much as a decent house in the suburbs! A fair comparison would be to put your C4's up against a equally priced pair of Scansonics or Raidhos using your equipment and your own music of course! I also saw plenty of people sit down get up and walk out quickly, so they aren't for everyone, but I still like them!

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post #34473 of 34499 Old Yesterday, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by yonson View Post
<snip>

Hegel made a very poor choice in using the KEF Blade 2's IMHO, they were so bright that it was distracting from anything else, although before I really gave up on it the lows and midrange was quite nice, such a shame though I was really looking forward to hearing their stuff...

<snip>
I find this odd because I've auditioned the Blade 2, though not with Hegel. I heard them with Plinius pre and amp and they weren't a bit bright. Perhaps it was the source material in this case, because Hegel is good stuff too.

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post #34474 of 34499 Old Yesterday, 09:36 PM
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I find this odd because I've auditioned the Blade 2, though not with Hegel. I heard them with Plinius pre and amp and they weren't a bit bright. Perhaps it was the source material in this case, because Hegel is good stuff too.
Ken with you, Hegel is far from bright as far as equipment goes, and KEF typically have a liquid cool sounding midrange... But there were plenty of rooms that didn't sound all that great, due to improper setup and source material that is for sure, last year Promusica had a pair of C2 Platinums and they sounded horrible, but some guy was playing music that was recorded in a church, it was horrific to my ears and when asked to play something else he would just change the type of Church music! LOL Last year the KEF Blades where in the basement with other gear, but they sounded very good..

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post #34475 of 34499 Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM
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For the current state of high end bookshelf market.
How would you describe the Contour's 20 compared to Focal Sopra N1 and Dali Epicon 2 & B&W 805D3 ?
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post #34476 of 34499 Old Today, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Emerald Core View Post
For the current state of high end bookshelf market.
How would you describe the Contour's 20 compared to Focal Sopra N1 and Dali Epicon 2 & B&W 805D3 ?
Emerald: Thats a difficult one right now, as not many people of heard the Contour 20 at the moment. I was hoping to hear them at Axpona but they only had a static one on display (Sadly)! I have heard the Focal Supra/Dali Epicon 2 and B&W 805D3, and between those three and after re-hearing the Dali Epicon 2 at Axpona on some decent Rogue Audio gear I would be all over that speaker! Frankly the 3 bookshelves I have it narrowed down to would be the Dali Epicon 2, the Raidho D1.1 and the Contour 20 (But need to hear these first of course).
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post #34477 of 34499 Old Today, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Emerald Core View Post
For the current state of high end bookshelf market.
How would you describe the Contour's 20 compared to Focal Sopra N1 and Dali Epicon 2 & B&W 805D3 ?
What are you expecting in a speaker is the first question maybe you should ask yourself and then what associated equipment will you be pairing with?

Dyn and Focal pair very well with Naim even Focal recommends Naim on their website, A lot of Dynaudio folks here also like Naim with Dynaudio speakers, I have not heard the D3 version of the 805 and never had the chance to hear the Epicon although I have heard several other Dali products.

I would say the Contour present more roll-off in the high frequency spectrum, than the Sopras but the Sopras have a bit less lower treble or upper midrange so cymbals for example may sound more in your face or prominent but for the most part they are warm. The Contours are all speed and accuracy maybe slightly dry as some would describe but nonetheless sound fantastic and extremely musical.

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post #34478 of 34499 Old Today, 08:28 AM
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Yonson,

It would be nice to hear the D1.1 with some different equipment.... Granted I am a fan, and I have ventured into that realm for a bit with the Scansonics, I loved the D1.1 but they where using some pretty hefty Pre/Amps and Amps, that cost a crapload and as much as a decent house in the suburbs! A fair comparison would be to put your C4's up against a equally priced pair of Scansonics or Raidhos using your equipment and your own music of course! I also saw plenty of people sit down get up and walk out quickly, so they aren't for everyone, but I still like them!
Garman- I agree. Aavik is a tank of an amp. It would be nice to hear D1.1 and MB5 with some other amp. Just like C60s were powered with SimAudio and Mark Levinson and it sounded amazing in both rooms unlike ProMusica setup which sounded dud.
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post #34479 of 34499 Old Today, 10:34 AM
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Maxtrixman18: I love all the matched gear that the Raidho room had and it definitely compliments the speakers for sure, it would be interesting to hear their equipment on other speakers and their speakers on other equipment etc.. I can afford the Dali D1.1 and the XT series along with all of the Scansonic line, but I will not let my hobby bury me! lol Literally! The Raidho room was packed because the Raidho just sounds good close up in the near field position and they are better than any non-studio speaker I have ever heard that way, hence they tend to work much better in smaller rooms than most speakers. But careful setup and good selection of music and equipment was key in good rooms at Axpona.

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post #34480 of 34499 Old Today, 10:45 AM
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Maxtrixman18: I love all the matched gear that the Raidho room had and it definitely compliments the speakers for sure, it would be interesting to hear their equipment on other speakers and their speakers on other equipment etc.. I can afford the Dali D1.1 and the XT series along with all of the Scansonic line, but I will not let my hobby bury me! lol Literally! The Raidho room was packed because the Raidho just sounds good close up in the near field position and they are better than any non-studio speaker I have ever heard that way, hence they tend to work much better in smaller rooms than most speakers. But careful setup and good selection of music and equipment was key in good rooms at Axpona.
Garman- Absolutely. That's why I still prefer the C60s over others. TBH I liked Scansonic MB5 but found them a little bright to my taste probably it's coz of 260s sound that I'm used to or was it coz of the ribbon tweeter of MB5. I found the highs little tipped up.
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post #34481 of 34499 Old Today, 12:30 PM
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Maxtrixman18: I love all the matched gear that the Raidho room had and it definitely compliments the speakers for sure, it would be interesting to hear their equipment on other speakers and their speakers on other equipment etc.. I can afford the Dali D1.1 and the XT series along with all of the Scansonic line, but I will not let my hobby bury me! lol Literally! The Raidho room was packed because the Raidho just sounds good close up in the near field position and they are better than any non-studio speaker I have ever heard that way, hence they tend to work much better in smaller rooms than most speakers. But careful setup and good selection of music and equipment was key in good rooms at Axpona.
Did you get to hear the xt 1's yet Garman,if so what do you think?

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post #34482 of 34499 Old Today, 12:37 PM
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Maxtrixman18: I love all the matched gear that the Raidho room had and it definitely compliments the speakers for sure, it would be interesting to hear their equipment on other speakers and their speakers on other equipment etc.. I can afford the Dali D1.1 and the XT series along with all of the Scansonic line, but I will not let my hobby bury me! lol Literally! The Raidho room was packed because the Raidho just sounds good close up in the near field position and they are better than any non-studio speaker I have ever heard that way, hence they tend to work much better in smaller rooms than most speakers. But careful setup and good selection of music and equipment was key in good rooms at Axpona.
Garman- Absolutely. That's why I still prefer the C60s over others. TBH I liked Scansonic MB5 but found them a little bright to my taste probably it's coz of 260s sound that I'm used to or was it coz of the ribbon tweeter of MB5. I found the highs little tipped up.
MB5 bright? My 2.5 are very laid back sounding.
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post #34483 of 34499 Old Today, 12:52 PM
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Did you get to hear the xt 1's yet Garman,if so what do you think?
Heard them last year and liked them a lot, just seem like your getting more of a speaker for the money with the new Contour C20 hence I wanted to hear those! The D1.1 did impress me again, but the only really way to do a comparison test is have them side by side and use the same equipment. In regards to the Hegel the more I listen to the H160 the more I like it, it's like having a Swiss Army Knife in your pocket when it comes to audio, very precise clear and detailed and pairs up with both Dynaudio and Maggies perfectly, I might be able try to keep both. All depends if the Belles Monoblocs break the bank and one with with them, is they don't!

Spurrier Sucks, one persons brightness is another persons blessing when it comes to speakers! The 2.5 where very nice, but when I compared them to the C2's/Maggies and at the time KEF's they where brighter to my ears, for some reason I just don't hear the tipped up sound when it comes to the XT or D lines.. Now what I find ironic is Rhett said the same thing about the Dynaudio Contour C1s at last years Axpona and I have never heard Dynaudio ever being described as tipped up or bright! But that just comes down to personal preference and what "Your Ears" hear!

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post #34484 of 34499 Old Today, 12:53 PM
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MB5 bright? My 2.5 are very laid back sounding.
Bright to my taste and as I mentioned, might be coz I'm used to the sound of 260s and MB5 were powered with Aavik whereas my 260s are powered with 5si LOL. :-)

Not taking away the fact that they are an amazing pair of speakers.
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post #34485 of 34499 Old Today, 01:16 PM
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Did you get to hear the xt 1's yet Garman,if so what do you think?
Heard them last year and liked them a lot, just seem like your getting more of a speaker for the money with the new Contour C20 hence I wanted to hear those! The D1.1 did impress me again, but the only really way to do a comparison test is have them side by side and use the same equipment.

Spurrier Sucks, one persons brightness is another persons blessing when it comes to speakers! The 2.5 where very nice, but when I compared them to the C2's/Maggies and at the time KEF's they where brighter to my ears, for some reason I just don't hear the tipped up sound when it comes to the XT or D lines.. Now what I find ironic is Rhett said the same thing about the Dynaudio Contour C1s at last years Axpona and I have never heard Dynaudio ever being described as tipped up or bright! But that just comes down to personal preference and what "Your Ears" hear!
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MB5 bright? My 2.5 are very laid back sounding.
Bright to my taste and as I mentioned, might be coz I'm used to the sound of 260s and MB5 were powered with Aavik whereas my 260s are powered with 5si LOL. :-)

Not taking away the fact that they are an amazing pair of speakers.
No worries. Just the first time I've heard them described as bright.
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post #34486 of 34499 Old Today, 04:59 PM
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No worries. Just the first time I've heard them described as bright.
Well that could be a number of things, last year Rhett called the C1's bright and tipped up, first time I have ever heard that on anything ever from Dynaudio. I guess it all depends on what your ears hear and prefer, there are a ton of people no matter how good a ribbon tweeter is, they just don't like the sound. I however do like them and Maggies and prefer them some times over the Dyn's at times.

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post #34487 of 34499 Old Today, 05:29 PM
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Well that could be a number of things, last year Rhett called the C1's bright and tipped up, first time I have ever heard that on anything ever from Dynaudio. I guess it all depends on what your ears hear and prefer, there are a ton of people no matter how good a ribbon tweeter is, they just don't like the sound. I however do like them and Maggies and prefer them some times over the Dyn's at times.
You forgot me. I think the S25 - Sapphire and Consequence UE are very bright with most recordings. C1 and C1 Sig's could be bright with just a couple of recordings I have. Otherwise the C1's highs are stellar. I think it's all in the crossover that can make the Esotar2 sound a bit on the bright side. But again Dyn is one of the few manufactures that has speakers that vary from laid back to a very lively sound. Something for everyone
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post #34488 of 34499 Old Today, 05:36 PM
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Well that could be a number of things, last year Rhett called the C1's bright and tipped up, first time I have ever heard that on anything ever from Dynaudio. I guess it all depends on what your ears hear and prefer, there are a ton of people no matter how good a ribbon tweeter is, they just don't like the sound. I however do like them and Maggies and prefer them some times over the Dyn's at times.
Garman: I know you have said it before too that you keep on coming back to the Dyn sound given you have had many speakers. After AXPONA visit, I'm really happy with my F260s. Now I need to get more power for them. Some good upgrades.
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post #34489 of 34499 Old Today, 05:40 PM
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You forgot me. I think the S25 - Sapphire and Consequence UE are very bright with most recordings. C1 and C1 Sig's could be bright with just a couple of recordings I have. Otherwise the C1's highs are stellar. I think it's all in the crossover that can make the Esotar2 sound a bit on the bright side. But again Dyn is one of the few manufactures that has speakers that vary from laid back to a very lively sound. Something for everyone
OctaDyn_Dude: Last year Joe had C1s powered with Mark Levinson and they sounded so good. Not bright at all. Very balanced highs and mids. You are right, Dyns can vary from laid back to the bright side.
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post #34490 of 34499 Old Today, 05:48 PM
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Well that could be a number of things, last year Rhett called the C1's bright and tipped up, first time I have ever heard that on anything ever from Dynaudio. I guess it all depends on what your ears hear and prefer, there are a ton of people no matter how good a ribbon tweeter is, they just don't like the sound. I however do like them and Maggies and prefer them some times over the Dyn's at times.
Rhett did try to sway me away from Dynaudio speaker and wanted me to get the XT-2, that would have cost only 3 times the price of the C-30 and he did break in a pair 3.4LE and indeed he called the tipped up and said they were trying to get the B$W crowd

I think we should all trust our ears but sometimes one does not have the chance to listen to all speakers under the same roof with our own equipment so it mkes it a difficult choice sometimes but i really do like what I am am hearing on my C-30s.

Ribbons can sound very good no matter what people say of them and I try to a complete abstraction of what the type of tweeter is installed, anything properly designed and well integrated can sound good if they put attention to details. Some people thought metal domes always sounded harsh which is not at all the case as they can be rolled off and cabinet hosting the tweeter has to be well done to make sure there is no undesired resonance as the metal domes are quite sensitive but so are ribbons and even more.

Thanks Gar for sharing.

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Yonson,

It would be nice to hear the D1.1 with some different equipment.... Granted I am a fan, and I have ventured into that realm for a bit with the Scansonics, I loved the D1.1 but they where using some pretty hefty Pre/Amps and Amps, that cost a crapload and as much as a decent house in the suburbs! A fair comparison would be to put your C4's up against a equally priced pair of Scansonics or Raidhos using your equipment and your own music of course! I also saw plenty of people sit down get up and walk out quickly, so they aren't for everyone, but I still like them!
I totally agree with you, the amps and cables are probably worth as much as my house, but DAMN did it sound nice! After spending yesterday listening to some of the stuff they had at the show I'm definitely satisfied with the C4's and will be for quite some time, but I definitely see a set of C3.2's or D3.1's in my future to replace them...

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For the current state of high end bookshelf market.
How would you describe the Contour's 20 compared to Focal Sopra N1 and Dali Epicon 2 & B&W 805D3 ?
I've had the chance to hear 3/4 of these.

Contour 20 - probably what sold me on getting the 60's... It's expensive for a bookshelf but I was so impressed by it. Solid bass, fantastic midrange and nice but not bright highs. I actually feel it was a bit more open sounding than the 60's at first. I heard it with an octave audio integrated.

Sopra N1 - accurate and clean, lean but tight bass, but too bright for me.

B&W 805 D3 - I'm biased, I've just never liked B&W speakers and I've felt the diamond series is too bright for me. That said, I think the new D3's are the best Diamond series I've heard and with something warm like McIntosh amps they work. But the sopra and 805 are more similar than not, and the Contour 20 would be the outlier of the 3.

No real experience with the Dalis.
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post #34493 of 34499 Old Today, 07:24 PM
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Rhett did try to sway me away from Dynaudio speaker and wanted me to get the XT-2, that would have cost only 3 times the price of the C-30 and he did break in a pair 3.4LE and indeed he called the tipped up and said they were trying to get the B$W crowd

I think we should all trust our ears but sometimes one does not have the chance to listen to all speakers under the same roof with our own equipment so it mkes it a difficult choice sometimes but i really do like what I am am hearing on my C-30s.

Ribbons can sound very good no matter what people say of them and I try to a complete abstraction of what the type of tweeter is installed, anything properly designed and well integrated can sound good if they put attention to details. Some people thought metal domes always sounded harsh which is not at all the case as they can be rolled off and cabinet hosting the tweeter has to be well done to make sure there is no undesired resonance as the metal domes are quite sensitive but so are ribbons and even more.

Thanks Gar for sharing.
I have owned titanium tweeters(paradigm) Berrylium (ref3a's) Ribbon(Neat Iota's) and soft domes(4 different Dyn's) and with all of them you will hear perceived "brightness" with a poor/bad recording or source.To me that is a big factor in what you hear,they all sound much better,with good sources and recordings...yet the Dyn's are probably the least harsh sounding of them all.

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post #34494 of 34499 Old Today, 08:06 PM
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I have owned titanium tweeters(paradigm) Berrylium (ref3a's) Ribbon(Neat Iota's) and soft domes(4 different Dyn's) and with all of them you will hear perceived "brightness" with a poor/bad recording or source.To me that is a big factor in what you hear,they all sound much better,with good sources and recordings...yet the Dyn's are probably the least harsh sounding of them all.
Totally agree with you Tony, this just shows how revealing the speaker is and not so forgiving when it comes to poor recording but what I really meant is about measured performance and I can tell you cabinet resonance don't lie in the high frequency spectrum and will show some problem areas on the graph.

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post #34495 of 34499 Old Today, 08:48 PM
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Totally agree with you Tony, this just shows how revealing the speaker is and not so forgiving when it comes to poor recording but what I really meant is about measured performance and I can tell you cabinet resonance don't lie in the high frequency spectrum and will show some problem areas on the graph.
I don't have any measuring equipment,what do you use Oliver?...REW?

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post #34496 of 34499 Old Today, 08:51 PM
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What are you expecting in a speaker is the first question maybe you should ask yourself and then what associated equipment will you be pairing with?

Dyn and Focal pair very well with Naim even Focal recommends Naim on their website, A lot of Dynaudio folks here also like Naim with Dynaudio speakers, I have not heard the D3 version of the 805 and never had the chance to hear the Epicon although I have heard several other Dali products.

I would say the Contour present more roll-off in the high frequency spectrum, than the Sopras but the Sopras have a bit less lower treble or upper midrange so cymbals for example may sound more in your face or prominent but for the most part they are warm. The Contours are all speed and accuracy maybe slightly dry as some would describe but nonetheless sound fantastic and extremely musical.
Umm.... I've heard the Sopras with Naim 272/250 3 times and as much as I love Naim I did not like the setup with the Focals. To me they sounded kinda on the bright side. For me the only great Focal lineup is the Aria, specifically the 936s. And don't get me wrong the Sopras do a lot of things right, but sonically they don't move me. I've heard the No.1, 2 and 3s.

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post #34497 of 34499 Old Today, 09:41 PM
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Umm.... I've heard the Sopras with Naim 272/250 3 times and as much as I love Naim I did not like the setup with the Focals. To me they sounded kinda on the bright side. For me the only great Focal lineup is the Aria, specifically the 936s. And don't get me wrong the Sopras do a lot of things right, but sonically they don't move me. I've heard the No.1, 2 and 3s.
This is why I said high note sound in your face and quite forward but the higher midrange is not in cause here. I am just playing the devils advocate

As NQ said it is often the recording, we have not specified the source material here and just to give you an example the Focus 260 is probably not the most laidback Dynaudio in the lot and yet you found the Sopras forward wich is not a false statement at all so tells me there is a lot of factors to take into account.

You know well Steve for what ever reason I have heard the 260s with T+A and I thought they were very aggressive at first and then heard them on Octave and then Sugden and they were a whole different speakers, might have been the recording.

When I heard the 20s, the guy next to me thought they were bright and I was mmm? I told him right away you have a tube amp. which he acknowledged on the spot

Very hard to do proper assessment of a speaker since so many factors have to be taken into account.

Hard to tell nowadays what is transparent and neutral.
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I don't have any measuring equipment,what do you use Oliver?...REW?
Stereophile has lab measurements for what they review to take with a grain of salt, trust you ears for sure. ARC on the Anthems does it, it's cool you can get your measurements but in room.

There is third party softwares you can get and you can hook up a mic directly to your computer.

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Funny with regards to how a speaker sounds to each individual,a while back a friend of mine was over listening to my Naim/Taksim's combo...we were playing some DSD files I had,he was blown away with how good it sounded,yet he says,it sucks how a few of the songs have that "hissing" in the background,like it was poorly recorded.I agreed with him,but honestly I did not hear a thing,he is half my age,and I was a little embarrassed that these old ears do not work like they used to,so THAT factor takes some of the edge off bright recordings for me.

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