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post #36481 of 36499 Old 09-19-2017, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by no quarter View Post
The link he provided a couple of weeks ago said something about 150k system I think... ouch!,but I could be wrong.
I figured it'd be something like that...
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post #36482 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 04:56 AM
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A New Criteria

Last year all the talk was about the updated Contour line, this year all the talk has been about the S40.

A few years ago, I had the S25, the Confidence C1, and the Focus 160 all in my room at the same time. In a head-to-head shootout, the Focus 160 was clearly at a disadvantage; mainly because of the size of my room. I felt like it was always reaching. While the 160 did perform admirably, the size of the room was a bit much for it to overcome. I still said it was an incredible bargain at $3000.

Enter the S40. From all the metrics (cabinet volume, cabinet shape, size of drivers, etc.,etc.), it's basically a hot-rodded Focus 160. What is most amazing is Dyn offering it at the same price as the 160. An incredible value.

If I were in the market for a new stand-mount speaker, which I'm not, the Contour 20 would be of more interest to me. I believe it's output would be closer to the S25 and it would fill my room without much trouble. Aside from aesthetics, the Contour 20 would still be a downgrade for me. Speaking of aesthetics, the new Countours have beautiful lines; the slight curves on the cabinet sides, the large radius on the corners, and the large built-in aluminum pinth. This is an expensive cabinet to build! I have inspected that cabinet and it is truly beautiful craftsmanship. The Grey Oak is definitely worth the 10% up-charge. When you consider the complexity of the cabinet, the finishes, the output, and of course the drivers, at $5000, the Contour 20 is the new leader in value.

I've had enough of graphs, specs, and head-to-head A/B is time consuming and a lot of work, so I decided on a new metric.
My new criteria for value:
S40- $167.00/lb.
C20- $147.00/lb.

If you go by this criteria, the Contour 20 is clearly the winner.
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post #36483 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 06:25 AM
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C4s are a bit less than $100 per lb. The are leading the pack in value. Its like buying dynaudio in bulk at Costco
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post #36484 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by aschen View Post
C4s are a bit less than $100 per lb. The are leading the pack in value. Its like buying dynaudio in bulk at Costco
Aschen,

One, I was only comparing the C20 and the S40.

Two, you better check your math: new C4s are $24K.
$24,000 ÷ 121 lbs.= $198/lb.
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post #36485 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
Aschen,

One, I was only comparing the C20 and the S40.

Two, you better check your math: new C4s are $24K.
$24,000 ÷ 121 lbs.= $198/lb.
you get two for 24k

My post of course was meant to be light hearted, as was yours I thought
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post #36486 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
.....
I've had enough of graphs, specs, and head-to-head A/B is time consuming and a lot of work, so I decided on a new metric.
My new criteria for value:
S40- $167.00/lb.
C20- $147.00/lb.

If you go by this criteria, the Contour 20 is clearly the winner.
I will never use any other metric from now on with my Audio equipment.
I am already applying it on cables, amps, DACs, room treatment modules and of course my girlfriend.

Finally I can by those mercury HIFI cables that has to be cooled to stay solidstate with a piece of mind.

Focus XD 400 Black Veneer
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post #36487 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post
you get two for 24k

My post of course was meant to be light hearted, as was yours I thought
Of course, my post was meant to be light-hearted. You did bring attention to my math error.
For some reason, I was just doing one speaker (early morning).

Updated: Price per pound per speaker
s40- $83.50/lb.
C20- $73.50/lb.
C4- $99/lb.

The Contour 20 still wins.
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post #36488 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Solgryn View Post
I will never use any other metric from now on with my Audio equipment.
I am already applying it on cables, amps, DACs, room treatment modules and of course my girlfriend.

Finally I can by those mercury HIFI cables that has to be cooled to stay solidstate with a piece of mind.
Since I'm still married, I legally can't use that metric for my girlfriend.

Now my wife, as she's gotten older and gained weight, you would think she would cost less per pound...NOT
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post #36489 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 07:26 AM
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How do the C2's compare to the Contour C60's?

As indicated above, I am thinking of getting away from the C1's.
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post #36490 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by majek 60 View Post
How do the C2's compare to the Contour C60's?

As indicated above, I am thinking of getting away from the C1's.
I think you will have to try to audition and see. However, since you said you use SUBs I would be inclined to say the c2s might have a bit better performance in your application. Otto said before they still consider the controlled directivity to be a performance advantage over the conventional driver layout. I am sure that is room dependent as well. However, for pure 2.0 listening I am sure the C60s bass performance is much better or at least much higher spl.
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post #36491 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by aschen View Post
I think you will have to try to audition and see. However, since you said you use SUBs I would be inclined to say the c2s might have a bit better performance in your application. Otto said before they still consider the controlled directivity to be a performance advantage over the conventional driver layout. I am sure that is room dependent as well. However, for pure 2.0 listening I am sure the C60s bass performance is much better or at least much higher spl.
Thanks!

I love the C1's sound-stage and imaging. Does anyone know if I would be loosing that with the C60's?
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post #36492 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by lesc View Post
My aural memory of the F260 is fast receding, but... I would just simply say the F340 is more authoritative-sounding (in the bass registers). In fact, I couldn't place them in the same spot as the F260 - too much bloat. Now in more optimal position, F340 seems just as balanced as the F260 but with greater reach. (Greater bass also giving them an illusion of greater soundstage...) Interestingly, I don't "hear" the mid-bass peak as suggested by the German review. It could be because the bass is dissipated along my 25' of wall space (open-plan 1-bedroom apt). Or it could just be because my hearing is quite non-linear in the bass region.

At this point it's all an academic exercise for me, trying to reconcile measurements and my perception. I do sometimes wonder why i am not "hearing" the graphs...Not anything I'm losing sleep over.
One thing to note. A peak in the mid-bass can often be compensated for with room placement. If you have the speakers 3.0-3.5' away from either the front wall or side walls, you'll be getting some cancellation near the center of the peak shown in the measurements.

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post #36493 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majek 60 View Post
Thanks!

I love the C1's sound-stage and imaging. Does anyone know if I would be loosing that with the C60's?
I have never heard any new Contour models,but every Dyn speaker I have owned/heard image well,even my excite 12's.Are you using them for home theatre only,or do you also listen to 2 channel in that room?I thought you were usining a single C1 for the centre channel too,that may work better matched with C2's,but that is just a guess.The reason I ended up starting a separate 2 channel system at (at my old house) was I did not like sitting in my basement just to listen to music,movies were a different story.So the 2 channel setup went upstairs in my living room.Now that I am in an apartment,everything is in one room(living room).
I don't think you can go wrong with C2's or C 60's,but then you might need a Confidence center to keep up.

5.2-Cary audio cinema 12 , confidence centre, XD 600's,excite 12's, Cary 500.1 monoblock, anthem mca-50, (2) Jl-audio fathom 112s, 65 inch Panasonic 3d plasma, marantz-blueray/sacd/dvd audio,Nordost Heimdall 2 cables
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post #36494 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no quarter View Post
I have never heard any new Contour models,but every Dyn speaker I have owned/heard image well,even my excite 12's.Are you using them for home theatre only,or do you also listen to 2 channel in that room?I thought you were usining a single C1 for the centre channel too,that may work better matched with C2's,but that is just a guess.The reason I ended up starting a separate 2 channel system at (at my old house) was I did not like sitting in my basement just to listen to music,movies were a different story.So the 2 channel setup went upstairs in my living room.Now that I am in an apartment,everything is in one room(living room).
I don't think you can go wrong with C2's or C 60's,but then you might need a Confidence center to keep up.
These are used in our Home Theater, however I do a lot of Stereo Music Listening in there (using my Subs). I do use a C1 as my center channel. I have often contemplated a separate 2 channel room, but due to the current performance of the Home Theater System, it is not necessary. My living room 2.1 system has Paradigm Studio 60's V. 1 which servers the purpose.
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post #36495 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by majek 60 View Post
These are used in our Home Theater, however I do a lot of Stereo Music Listening in there (using my Subs). I do use a C1 as my center channel. I have often contemplated a separate 2 channel room, but due to the current performance of the Home Theater System, it is not necessary. My living room 2.1 system has Paradigm Studio 60's V. 1 which servers the purpose.
C2s vs. Countour 60s. That's a tough one.

They both are rated to 28hz, but the 60s might be able to play louder in the lower frequencies. But, how loud is loud. I've got a lot of experience setting up the C2s for HT, and they can play uncomfortably loud.

Now, I don't have any experience setting up the 60s. I have only heard them in hotel rooms at audio shows. With 2-9.5" drivers, I believe that they might be weighted towards the lower frequencies and maybe unnaturally so.
The C2 is a very balanced speaker through all the frequencies.

If you can imagine, take two C1s, take one of them and place it upside down on top of the other one. Now you basically have a C2.
The C2 has that beautiful midrange that the C1 is known for, plus added bass extension that the C1 doesn't have.

You had asked about imaging and soundstage. In most cases, a good stand-mount will image better and have a wider and deeper soundstage than a floor stander; especially in a well treated room. The C2 images/soundstages better than just about any floor stander I've ever heard.

The C2 doesn't need a sub(s) for 2-channel music, unless you're really into organ or some orchestral. Most Rock and Jazz doesn't have much going on below 40hz. What I did with the C2s and subs for music, was run the C2s full range, and let the subs come in and high-cut them off at about 35-40hz. Their was no crossover between the C2 and the subs; I just let the subs high cut naturally roll off at about 35-40hz. This is the same philosophy that Rel uses.

For HT, then you can do a true crossover. I believe in the one room I set up, I crossed the C2s with the subs at 65hz. We used Dyn 600s. They weren't impactful enough for the customer, so I built an infinite baffle sub that went down to about 6-8hz. I then high passed that to the other subs at around 24hz. You couldn't hear the IB sub, but you sure could feel it. (There are some movies that go down into the inaudible sub frequencies).

As you can tell, I lean towards the C2.

Now for my new BS performance metric.
C60- $42.00/lb.
C2- $91.00/lb.

According to that, the 60 is the better deal.

So, if you're more HT centric for that setup, go with the 60s.
If you want a more well rounded speaker for both HT and incredible 2-channel playback, go with the C2s.
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post #36496 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 01:05 PM
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I received the X18's in walnut color. They are still running in of course, and will be for quite some time, but I am really satisfied with these already. They look nice and well built, high quality finish that is actually satin lacquer, feels like really thick layer of lacquer and it reflects light as well. Quite cool looking, not too shiny. So far what I have managed to listen to, driving with the Rotel RB1552 mkII using balanced connections from Benchmark DAC-1 D/A converter, the sound is really good, although the bass is maybe a little funny, maybe a little bit boomy, possibly due to the drivers still not run in. I cannot hear anything inferior in the crossover nor the tweeters. I am really happy with these. They are not too bright. Accustomed to studio monitors, I was actually expecting slighty more treble. I will see later, if there is possibility to adjust the treble level by changing the L-pad resistors, maybe +0.5 dB would suit my taste better. Definitely better cleaner and smother sound out of these than I had with the active BM5A's years ago. The sound reminds me more of the passive BM15's that I had, but different. Maybe the amplification also plays a role here, compared to the actives. I made the speaker connections with high quality OFC copper 4 mm2 cables with direct connection to the screw terminals, no bananas or anything. I will report later again, when the speakers have run in more.
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post #36497 of 36499 Old Yesterday, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
C2s vs. Countour 60s. That's a tough one.

They both are rated to 28hz, but the 60s might be able to play louder in the lower frequencies. But, how loud is loud. I've got a lot of experience setting up the C2s for HT, and they can play uncomfortably loud.

Now, I don't have any experience setting up the 60s. I have only heard them in hotel rooms at audio shows. With 2-9.5" drivers, I believe that they might be weighted towards the lower frequencies and maybe unnaturally so.
The C2 is a very balanced speaker through all the frequencies.

If you can imagine, take two C1s, take one of them and place it upside down on top of the other one. Now you basically have a C2.
The C2 has that beautiful midrange that the C1 is known for, plus added bass extension that the C1 doesn't have.

You had asked about imaging and soundstage. In most cases, a good stand-mount will image better and have a wider and deeper soundstage than a floor stander; especially in a well treated room. The C2 images/soundstages better than just about any floor stander I've ever heard.

The C2 doesn't need a sub(s) for 2-channel music, unless you're really into organ or some orchestral. Most Rock and Jazz doesn't have much going on below 40hz. What I did with the C2s and subs for music, was run the C2s full range, and let the subs come in and high-cut them off at about 35-40hz. Their was no crossover between the C2 and the subs; I just let the subs high cut naturally roll off at about 35-40hz. This is the same philosophy that Rel uses.

For HT, then you can do a true crossover. I believe in the one room I set up, I crossed the C2s with the subs at 65hz. We used Dyn 600s. They weren't impactful enough for the customer, so I built an infinite baffle sub that went down to about 6-8hz. I then high passed that to the other subs at around 24hz. You couldn't hear the IB sub, but you sure could feel it. (There are some movies that go down into the inaudible sub frequencies).

As you can tell, I lean towards the C2.

Now for my new BS performance metric.
C60- $42.00/lb.
C2- $91.00/lb.

According to that, the 60 is the better deal.

So, if you're more HT centric for that setup, go with the 60s.
If you want a more well rounded speaker for both HT and incredible 2-channel playback, go with the C2s.
'

Going off of MSRP is one thing but if you where able to get a steal on them, then the price per pound comes down much more! I heard the 60's and they were excellent, but to me a tad too much on the bass and not as refined as the C2 when it came to clarity, but difficult to judge when you don't have them side by side, no sub needed with either speaker, unless you have a huge room!

Dynaudio, Magnepan, Belles, Hegel, Musical Fidelity and KEF, etc......Contour's 20's/Special 40's or Raidho next...
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post #36498 of 36499 Old Today, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by majek 60 View Post
Thanks!

I love the C1's sound-stage and imaging. Does anyone know if I would be loosing that with the C60's?
Maybe a little bit? I haven't heard the Contour 60s unfortunately, but in the case of C1 vs. Contour 20, I thought the C1 was a little bit better at imaging in my dealer's well treated listening room. I doubt the Contour 60 would better it. The Contour 30s didn't.

The C2s image very well for a tall floorstander, and they produce a larger soundstage than the C1s, particularly in height. However, the C2s need a little more listening distance than the C1s. As with most two-way stand-mounted speakers, I could be comfortable with the C1s in a nearfield setup. But with the C2s, I prefer listening at 3m+.

HT: Dynaudio C2, Contour S CX, 2x BM14S, Aperion surrounds, Simaudio Titan, Marantz AV8801, Oppo 103, Linn Majik DS, and a Pioneer Kuro
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post #36499 of 36499 Old Today, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
The C2s image very well for a tall floorstander, and they produce a larger soundstage than the C1s, particularly in height. However, the C2s need a little more listening distance than the C1s. As with most two-way stand-mounted speakers, I could be comfortable with the C1s in a nearfield setup. But with the C2s, I prefer listening at 3m+.
That is exactly what I noticed when I had C1's and did an in home demo with the C2's side by side. Because I couldn't get more than 3m away I kept my C1's.
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