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post #61 of 22841 Old 09-07-2006, 07:46 PM
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I'm sure others have gotten better than 20% when ordering a five speaker package,

Uh, Jeff, that was an excellent deal. No, not many would get that kind of discount on Dyn's. As a Dynaudio dealer myself these rarely have to be discounted at all to sell. The new Focus series has me grinning from ear to ear.....THEY ARE AWESOME.

I'm also glad to see you have these paired with Sherbourn power....What a nice match!!! I'm a dealer for Sherbourn as well and I have a Focus 220 system matched with the 7/2100a amp and it betters some other higher powered amps I also sell by a wide margin. What an amp and its flying way under the radar. These amps really should get more press IMO.

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How much difference is there between s3.4 and Focus 220?

Two very nice speakers. To be honest, I prefer the 220 because there isn't much gained in the S3.4 for the price. The bass impact is nearly identical. However, the tweeter is definitely better in the S3.4 and is slightly more detailed.

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How much difference between s3.4 and c1 (price is similar)?

The C1 is the better speaker, but it will need a sub if you like bass heavy music.

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Has anyone used or heard digital amps such as PS AUDIO's GCC100 with Contours or above?

These work well. However, I've only heard the Contours mated to the new Rotel Digital amps. Sounded great to my ears.

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Since you are a dealer,just how BIG is Dynaudio worldwide. One dealer told me they are the same size as B&W,is that true. Just wandering.

It's not as large as B&W. Dynaudio and B&W are tight with their dealers and treat them very well once you get in the door. To fine companies IMO.

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What would be the B stock price for s3.4s ? On Audiogon, they go for $2500-$3500.

Support your local dealer.....

Jeff got 20% off, so deals can be had if you work it right. I do love Audiogon, though. I sell a bunch of trade-in and used gear there. Word of caution for anyone buying larger floorstanding speakers via Audiogon. The average person will not package these appropriately. Most Dyns come via freight and are not meant to be shipped via UPS and thrown around. Just a word of caution you'll need to consider.

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post #62 of 22841 Old 09-08-2006, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ttowntony View Post

Uh, Jeff, that was an excellent deal. No, not many would get that kind of discount on Dyn's. As a Dynaudio dealer myself these rarely have to be discounted at all to sell. The new Focus series has me grinning from ear to ear.....THEY ARE AWESOME.

I'm also glad to see you have these paired with Sherbourn power....What a nice match!!! I'm a dealer for Sherbourn as well and I have a Focus 220 system matched with the 7/2100a amp and it betters some other higher powered amps I also sell by a wide margin. What an amp and its flying way under the radar. These amps really should get more press IMO.



Two very nice speakers. To be honest, I prefer the 220 because there isn't much gained in the S3.4 for the price. The bass impact is nearly identical. However, the tweeter is definitely better in the S3.4 and is slightly more detailed.



The C1 is the better speaker, but it will need a sub if you like bass heavy music.



These work well. However, I've only heard the Contours mated to the new Rotel Digital amps. Sounded great to my ears.



It's not as large as B&W. Dynaudio and B&W are tight with their dealers and treat them very well once you get in the door. To fine companies IMO.



Support your local dealer.....

Jeff got 20% off, so deals can be had if you work it right. I do love Audiogon, though. I sell a bunch of trade-in and used gear there. Word of caution for anyone buying larger floorstanding speakers via Audiogon. The average person will not package these appropriately. Most Dyns come via freight and are not meant to be shipped via UPS and thrown around. Just a word of caution you'll need to consider.

Thanks. What cable do you like to use with the Dyns? My local dealer uses Nordost.
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post #63 of 22841 Old 09-08-2006, 09:09 AM
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Uh, Jeff, that was an excellent deal.

Thanks T-Town. Knowing that I didn't get taken advantage of always helps me enjoy a big purchase like this one.

My early review of the Focus speakers is that they are outstanding. I probably have about 100 hours of play on my mains and surrounds (left them playing constantly on 4-ch stereo over the holiday weekend while we were out of town). Maybe 40 hours on my center channel, but it will catch up quickly, as these are our only TV speakers.

Hooked up to my SherwoodNewcastle P-965 pre/pro and Sherbourn 7/2100 amp, I did my first high volume stereo test last night. I listened again to my audition disc that had led me to buy the Focus 220s in the first place. It has a mix of vocal jazz (Diana Krall, Michael Buble, and Fiona Apple), alt. rock (Dave Matthews, XTC, John Mayer, Duncan Sheik, Sting, Frou Frou, Chantal Kreviazuk, and Imogen Heap), opera (O Mio Bambino Caro), and rock and roll (Rolling Stones).

I was, once again, absolutely floored by the precise imaging and openess of the 220s. The vocals on every song, without exception, seemed totally set apart from the rest of the band, and the 220s created the "you are there" illusion as well as any system I could imagine at this price point.

Additionally, (maybe because my living room is smaller than where I auditioned the speakers), I was more impressed by the 220s punch and accurate bass extension, than I had previously been. When I picked these over the Paradigm Studio line, I thought I was giving away some power for clarity. Now, I'm not so sure that's true. Last night, I heard bass lines I never heard with my previous speakers (which were rated to 42hz) and felt the impact of the drums in a new way.

I also did a high volume home theater test, watching one of my favorite HDNet shows for demos, "Nothing But Trailers." As the name implies, it's just a series of high def movie trailers, one after another. Considering that I have no sub, I was very surprised by the bass power of this 5 speaker system (I have my Focus 140 rears set to "small" and crossed at 60hz). It was not the same as having a sub, but it was much closer than I expected, and more than adequate to while away my pre-sub months in this smallish living room. It sounded absolutely great, and the Sherbourn seemed to handle high volume action packed trailers without blinking an eye. I had the pre/pro set to a volume of -5, and didn't feel I would want any more.

Overall, as you can tell, I'm totally satisfied with my purchase. This 5-speaker Focus system absolutely sounds as clean and open and impressive as I hoped it would when I laid down the credit card. As someone who tends to feel the pangs of buyer's remorse whenever I'm in these high dollar situations, that's saying a lot.

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post #64 of 22841 Old 09-08-2006, 12:36 PM
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Jeff, awesome review. I'm glad you are happy with your purchase.

Wgerman, you certainly don't need to spend an arm and a leg for speaker cables to make the Focus sing. I would suggest good heavy weighted cables that drape well. Personally, we use the www.libertycable.com THX cables the majority of the time. If you want to go the internet direct way, I suggest Cobalt Cable. I really like their cables and wish they would open them up to dealers for distribution. Most certainly Nordost will do the trick as well.

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post #65 of 22841 Old 09-08-2006, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by wgerman View Post

Thanks. What cable do you like to use with the Dyns? My local dealer uses Nordost.

I don't know a lot about speaker wire, but I've always been happy with Blue Jeans Cable. Very reasonable prices, quick delivery, and (for the things I've ordered) great quality. http://www.bluejeanscable.com/

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post #66 of 22841 Old 09-08-2006, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. What cable do you like to use with the Dyns? My local dealer uses Nordost.

Nordost stuff is great!

We use MIT cables as well, which seem to work well with Dynaudio, but Nordost has always been a personal favorite of mine.
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post #67 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 11:02 AM
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Curse you Serenity opening scene!

I set the volume based on the Universal overture thingy, which was loud, but not excessive. Then the Universal logo flew overhead and it was all LFE as it went by. Only problem is, as those who have read my earlier posts know, I don't have a sub yet. So I was suddenly greeted by the horrifying sound of my center channel bottoming out. Very scary.

I've watched three more movies since then, and don't detect that any harm was done, but I'd still like some reassurance from anyone with knowledge on the bottoming out phenom. I'll probably cry if I've marred its perfection.

Thanks for any input.

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post #68 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 11:09 AM
 
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You need to get a subwoofer.
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post #69 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 11:16 AM
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You need to get a subwoofer.

No one knows it better than I, but I won't have a permanent home for the system for two to six months (depending on when we move into a new house). I don't want to pull the trigger until I know my room size.

Also, the room now is too small for a sub and there will be a WAF problem if I want to make that purchase before we have the system tucked away in a dedicated room, where it belongs and deserves to live.

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post #70 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 11:45 AM
 
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Then you should use your time limitations as an advantage! Buy a sub now, and then when you figure out your room size, use that as an excuse to buy a second sub!

But in the interim be careful with the volume dial and bass-heavy movies. You can definitely damage things if you're not careful.
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post #71 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 11:51 AM
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Maybe I should cross my center and my surrounds at 40hz. Then, although they will still act as large in most cases, I will get my LFE routed to my mains which are less likely to bottom out.

On the other hand, maybe I should just keep the volume down a bit. It's so hard to know where to draw the line, because the system is capable of so much bass as is. In watching about five action films, I've only gone too far in this one moment. The rest of time, it sounded fantastic.

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post #72 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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If given proper power its very rare that you would bottom out the Dynaudio speakers. However there is almost no center speaker out there that I run full range in our installations. The center channel is mostly for increasing vocal intelligibility and vocals dont happen in the 40 hz region. The subwoofer needs to be used to increase dynamic range. Increases the reliability of the center speaker.

By keeping your center as small you increase your power handling capability and furthermore a 12" driver is much better suited to handle deep bass than the little 5.25" drivers in the Focus center.
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post #73 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 12:49 PM
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Given that I use a Sherbourn 7/2100, I can't imagine power was the issue. It was not THAT loud. However, it does sound like crossing my center and surrounds at 40hz is the way to go.

Again, since I don't have (and won't soon have) a sub, I'll just be crossing the LFE to my mains, but I figure that should be a lot less of an issue.

No one is commenting on whether a single instance of bottoming out is likely to have done damage. Is that because I'm in the clear or because you don't want to depress me? Since I don't hear anything so far, does anyone have any thoughts on this?

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post #74 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 01:11 PM
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If they still sound the same, they should be fine, but some damage may have been done, and subsequent incedents may prove driver fatal.
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post #75 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

Given that I use a Sherbourn 7/2100, I can't imagine power was the issue. It was not THAT loud. However, it does sound like crossing my center and surrounds at 40hz is the way to go.

Again, since I don't have (and won't soon have) a sub, I'll just be crossing the LFE to my mains, but I figure that should be a lot less of an issue.

No one is commenting on whether a single instance of bottoming out is likely to have done damage. Is that because I'm in the clear or because you don't want to depress me? Since I don't hear anything so far, does anyone have any thoughts on this?

A single instance can damage the voice coils, however if you have damaged them you will hear them with other recordings almost immediately. Usually a fried voice coil will cause the driver to not move at all. A partially fried coil will only exhibit itself at higher excursion brought on by high volume, lots of bass or both.

Cross the center over at 50 hz to be safe. Dynaudio tweeters can handle 1000 watts of unclipped transient power. All their drivers are extremely robust with oversized voice coils, so chances you are testing the limits of your amplifier not your speakers.

I recommend doing this, to test if the center is damaged. Replace one of the floorstanders (Focus 220's) with the Focus 200C. Run a two channel recording with some bass, like techno, metallica, etc. Though the imaging and soundstage will obviously not sound right you should be able to tell right away if the speaker is damaged. Let me know how it turns out.
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post #76 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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post #77 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 04:50 PM
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A partially fried coil will only exhibit itself at higher excursion brought on by high volume, lots of bass or both.

I have already done plenty of high volume listening since then, with no trouble.

As to further testing, i.e., by hooking up the center as a main, I think I will wait to see signs I need to do it. At least until I am nearing the end of my warranty, if it doesn't sound broke, I don't need to invest too much energy in convincing myself it isn't. If I listen for trouble too closely, I sometimes find myself imagining problems that aren't there. I'd rather not go down that road until it seems I have to.

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All their drivers are extremely robust with oversized voice coils, so chances you are testing the limits of your amplifier not your speakers.

Is it right that a speaker can only "bottom out" if the amplifier is short on power? This was a very loud, very low rumble, and the sound I heard was a distinct, rhythmic thudding. It sound like banging on the outside of the speaker with a wooden spoon. There were maybe four "knocks" before I got the volume down.

Could this not have resulted from simply asking the 200c to play a 25hz signal too loudly?

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post #78 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 05:07 PM
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Is it right that a speaker can only "bottom out" if the amplifier is short on power?

Could this not have resulted from simply asking the 200c to play a 25hz signal too loudly?


No,

Absolutely.
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post #79 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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It generally takes a lot of distortion to bottom out a woofer. Clipping usually kills tweeters rather than woofers, but its hard to say without seeing your setup. I would set the center as small. The processor will route the bass to the mains anyway. This will guarantee the center is safe.
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post #80 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 05:16 PM
 
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It generally takes a lot of distortion to bottom out a woofer.

No, what it takes is excursion. Overpowering a driver will cause it to bottom out and this can be done by a powerful amplifier without any distortion at all. Obviously as the driver is exiting the gap in extreme excursion it is going to begin to distort and of course as it bottoms out that is of course distortion caused by the speaker, not by the amp. If the amp is underpowered such that it begins to clip before the driver bottoms out, the distortion will be high frequency in nature and is likely to blow the tweeter rather than damage the woofer, though it could also do both.
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post #81 of 22841 Old 09-11-2006, 05:20 PM
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It is relatively easy to exceed X-mech in a ported box trying to reproduce a signal well below the port tuned frequency.
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post #82 of 22841 Old 09-12-2006, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

Overpowering a driver will cause it to bottom out and this can be done by a powerful amplifier without any distortion at all.

This is certainly reassuring. I would have been very surprised (and disappointed) if I was overtaxing the Sherbourn at the volume I was at. Considering the Focus are 4 ohm, it should be giving me a reliable 300 watts per channel, which, I would hope, would never distort at a sane volume.

Thanks to all for the info and comfort. My Focus setup continues to impress and, at times, amaze me. I just need to be sure I treat it with respect... at least until I drop in an SVS PB12-Plus/2, that is.

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post #83 of 22841 Old 09-12-2006, 09:18 AM
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I'm wondering if someone could point out at sonic differences (if any) between their entry passive monitors BM5 and BM6 and their monitors from the audience and focus lines. Haven't heard any of them yet, and before I do I would be interested in your opinion. If I buy a pair I would drive them with a Hafler P3000.

Thanks, Virgil.
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post #84 of 22841 Old 09-12-2006, 09:21 AM
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Jeff:

I have Contours (SC and 3.4) driven by a Sherbourn 7/2100A and have never experienced distortion. I have driven the 3.4s at full range and high volumes and have never experienced bottoming out.

Unless you have a very large room that has extremely sound absorbing materials all over the place it would be hard for me to believe that you would have any hearing left prior to hearing distortion from the setup you have.

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post #85 of 22841 Old 09-12-2006, 09:57 AM
 
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Mike: but he is running his focus speakers full range and sending LFE to them since he does not have a subwoofer. With film soundtracks that have bass-heavy LFE or bass heavy main tracks it can be very easy to overdrive even capable subwoofers, let alone focus speakers which are hardly designed to keep up with that kind of low freq content.
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post #86 of 22841 Old 09-12-2006, 10:22 AM
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Mike: but he is running his focus speakers full range and sending LFE to them since he does not have a subwoofer. With film soundtracks that have bass-heavy LFE or bass heavy main tracks it can be very easy to overdrive even capable subwoofers, let alone focus speakers which are hardly designed to keep up with that kind of low freq content.


I would agree. I guess I was trying to infer that if your speakers are bottoming out, so probably are your ears! I just did not say it directly enough.

One of the dangers of the great clean power I get from the Sherbourn into my Contours is that I do not realize how loud the music or movie is playing. It is very clear even at high volumes.

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post #87 of 22841 Old 09-12-2006, 10:55 AM
 
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Yes, but even at low volumes, if the frequencies are very low, it's below the port tune of the speakers and there's just no protection for the drivers. You can actually see the drivers trying to produce those ultra-low frequencies and moving a great deal and that can bottom things out with that really low stuff. A lot of music won't go that low, but some definitely does and a lot of movie effects definitely do. Throw on some crazy organ music and you don't have to be very loud at all before you start seeing those drivers moving pretty far with those really low tones!

And slightly off topic, but god dammit if I didn't just blow a tweeter on my 52SE. Guh. I knew my receiver was underpowered for my setup, I've just been putting off buying an amp. *sigh*
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post #88 of 22841 Old 09-12-2006, 11:30 AM
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Chris - Sorry to hear the news. That is always a painful moment in one's A/V life. I'd done it two or three times with my old speakers and my underpowered, 1995 vintage, Dolby ProLogic receiver. I certainly feel far more at ease with my amp (bought used of Audiogon) and, so far, it seems to be able to stand far more volume than I can.

On to another question. Can people please chime in as to what subs they've mated with their Dyns? Does anyone actually have the Dyn Subs? Are people satisfied with the musicality of SVS, HSU, Velodyne, or others? Have people gone to even higher end subs than those?

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post #89 of 22841 Old 09-12-2006, 12:40 PM
 
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I use an SVS PCi 20-39 with my dyns and it does fine. It's mainly for HT though. Sometimes for critical listening I turn it off. There are some tighter subs out there, my friend has a DIY sealed tumult that performs better in both output extension and tightness, but the driver alone cost nearly as much as the SVS.

The best bass I've ever heard in my life was from Evidence masters though.
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post #90 of 22841 Old 09-12-2006, 07:04 PM
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Can people please chime in as to what subs they've mated with their Dyns? Does anyone actually have the Dyn Subs?

Jeff, I have the Dyn Sub500 mated with the Focus 220. I'm really digging this sub. This sub is as musical as I've ever heard and I carry several really nice higher priced brands. After watching WOW last night for the first time through this system I was very impressed. This sub really had no trouble at all pounding out the bass with no hint of bloat or bottoming out.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I think this sub could hold it's own against the SVS stuff. The SVS has the upper hand with the real deep stuff and will probably play louder......Of course it's like putting a VW Bug in your living room, though....Ouch! For music and for medium sized rooms the Dyn Sub500 would be an excellent choice to be mated with Dyn speakers. Second choice for me would be the Velodyne DD-12 or 15.

Tony G. Cordova, President
Showplace Oklahoma - Showplace Theater & Sound
"We put the SHOW in your PLACE."
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