Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 487 - AVS Forum
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post #14581 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dynlunatic View Post

Octave.......nuf said!

I've read that the Octave gear is not traditionally tube warm and that it is very transparent. Having said that I've been told that it is bold in its presentation.
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post #14582 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Goodeyeclosed72 View Post

I like gear that sounds dark, smaller soundstage but a lot less fatigue. The only concern about CJ Is how bold its presentation would be.

I'm thought I'd heard all the "audiophile" adjectives...but I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean by "bold".

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #14583 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 12:44 PM
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Well, I guess it's official now; C1 Sigs (Bordeaux) are on the way!

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #14584 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 02:07 PM
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CD, Welcome to the c1 club!
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post #14585 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

I'm thought I'd heard all the "audiophile" adjectives...but I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean by "bold".

CD

Like you are in the front row.
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post #14586 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Well, I guess it's official now; C1 Sigs (Bordeaux) are on the way!

CD

Congratulations Like BD are you keeping the S25's? Wish I could afford 2 pairs of Dynaudio's best Monitors
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post #14587 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Goodeyeclosed72 View Post

Like you are in the front row.

Ah; I think of that as "forward".

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #14588 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

Congratulations Like BD are you keeping the S25's? Wish I could afford 2 pairs of Dynaudio's best Monitors

Thanks everyone; I'm pretty excited, naturally.

No OD_D, I'm afraid some other lucky listener will have to take the 25s off my hands. I don't have the mega-bucks like BD.

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #14589 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 02:27 PM
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Congrats on the C1 sigs CD. I am still contemplating the move towards C1s (mkIs though). I don't know how long I can resist the temptation.
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post #14590 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Ah; I think of that as "forward".

CD

"forward" sounds derogatory to me.
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post #14591 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Goodeyeclosed72 View Post

I've read that the Octave gear is not traditionally tube warm and that it is very transparent. Having said that I've been told that it is bold in its presentation.

Well as an Octave V70SE owner I would not call it bold or forward. To me it has better 'control' of the music. To me control is a more natural maybe somewhat detailed sound. Something my Bryston didn't have. But with the Octave do some tube rolling and really 'tweak' the sound. Warm - musical - detailed
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post #14592 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Well, I guess it's official now; C1 Sigs (Bordeaux) are on the way!

You, sir, are nuts But then nuts is good, and I'm nuts too! Therefore, welcome to both the nuts club and the C1 club
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post #14593 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tvih View Post

You, sir, are nuts But then nuts is good, and I'm nuts too! Therefore, welcome to both the nuts club and the C1 club

Well...I'm about to become a lot less "nuts". Mark my words boys; it's Belles and these C1s for a WHILE! My room's too small for C2s (unless we bought another house...hmm)

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #14594 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodeyeclosed72 View Post

"forward" sounds derogatory to me.

Touche!

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #14595 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

Well as an Octave V70SE owner I would not call it bold or forward. To me it has better 'control' of the music. To me control is a more natural maybe somewhat detailed sound. Something my Bryston didn't have. But with the Octave do some tube rolling and really 'tweak' the sound. Warm - musical - detailed

Interesting. Anyone have any opinions about how the V40SE with "black box", V70SE without black box might compare (on Sapphires). I am completely NOT a tube person. But there are some used Octaves on Audiogon and it might be fun to get one and compare it. Plus, I read a review of the V80 and it was found to be VERY similar sounding to the FirstWatt (Pass) F5 which is impossible to get (and probably underpowered but I don't mind listening at low levels).
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post #14596 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooStat View Post

Interesting. Anyone have any opinions about how the V40SE with "black box", V70SE without black box might compare (on Sapphires). I am completely NOT a tube person. But there are some used Octaves on Audiogon and it might be fun to get one and compare it. Plus, I read a review of the V80 and it was found to be VERY similar sounding to the FirstWatt (Pass) F5 which is impossible to get (and probably underpowered but I don't mind listening at low levels).

For my V70SE and C1's the black box really doesn't add power per se. It lowers the floor noise and will increase dynamics a bit. Not long term power but short peaks (even at lower levels) in dynamics. Sapphires should fare well with a V70 w/o bb.
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post #14597 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

For my V70SE and C1's the black box really doesn't add power per se. It lowers the floor noise and will increase dynamics a bit. Not long term power but short peaks (even at lower levels) in dynamics. Sapphires should fare well with a V70 w/o bb.

Yeah, I remember Mick kind of addressed this once; that with speakers with relatively stable loads, the Black Box didn't play as big a role as with those that had pretty big swings.

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #14598 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Yeah, I remember Mick kind of addressed this once; that with speakers with relatively stable loads, the Black Box didn't play as big a role as with those that had pretty big swings.

CD

If the Sapphires are stable, which Dyns have loads with bug swings? Just curious.
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post #14599 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodeyeclosed72 View Post

If the Sapphires are stable, which Dyns have loads with bug swings? Just curious.

Not many. I remember Mick stating the lower end models (ie DM's) had larger swings. But Octave was made for most any speaker - not just Dyn's. I bought the black box mainly for the lower noise floor.
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post #14600 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Goodeyeclosed72 View Post

If the Sapphires are stable, which Dyns have loads with bug swings? Just curious.

Well, actually...OD_D said the BB didn't make a dramatic difference with his C1s; so it's the C1 I was implying are fairly stable, which I believe they are. Not sure about Sapphires...and as OD_D said, it's not like Octave was made just for Dyns (although to hear Mick tell it...lol )

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #14601 of 24370 Old 02-08-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Well, actually...OD_D said the BB didn't make a dramatic difference with his C1s; so it's the C1 I was implying are fairly stable, which I believe they are. Not sure about Sapphires...and as OD_D, it's not like Octave was made just for Dyns (although to hear Mick tell it...lol )

CD

I was under the impression that at the least the Contours on up are very stable. Remember I'm old Can't remember everything exactly LOL. After all you are just adding capacitance to the power supply and the tubes themselves can't push any more. I think Rhett (Rded) will vouch for the fact the bb helps but is not earth shattering. I think he tried a super bb too and didn't feel for the 3X price it brought enough to justify the cost. He has a V80 driving his Blue Sapphires.
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post #14602 of 24370 Old 02-09-2012, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodeyeclosed72 View Post

I like gear that sounds dark, smaller soundstage but a lot less fatigue. The only concern about CJ Is how bold its presentation would be.

It's pretty clear you haven't heard any current C-J gear, then....say from the Premier 350/LP series on....

Chance favors the prepared mind.
-Louis Pasteur
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post #14603 of 24370 Old 02-09-2012, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

For my V70SE and C1's the black box really doesn't add power per se. It lowers the floor noise and will increase dynamics a bit. Not long term power but short peaks (even at lower levels) in dynamics. Sapphires should fare well with a V70 w/o bb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

I was under the impression that at the least the Contours on up are very stable. Remember I'm old Can't remember everything exactly LOL. After all you are just adding capacitance to the power supply and the tubes themselves can't push any more. I think Rhett (Rded) will vouch for the fact the bb helps but is not earth shattering. I think he tried a super bb too and didn't feel for the 3X price it brought enough to justify the cost. He has a V80 driving his Blue Sapphires.

I had (yes...had) Sapphires and the V70 (not the se version) with the black box. The black box helped at louder levels keep the detail. It wasn't a drastic improvement but an improvement nonetheless. You could get by with just the v70se but I'd try the black box with it if possible. The V70 I sold because I needed the ht bypass as I'm integrating my 2 channel setup with my surround sound setup.
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post #14604 of 24370 Old 02-09-2012, 12:29 PM
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Received the Philips FP 150 vinyl player today....... with a busted needle. Looks like I gotta buy me a new needle, or probably going to buy an entire new cartridge since the current one is probably the original and as such probably quite worn anyway. Any ideas whether Grado Black, Shure M-92E or Ortofon OMP-5E would be the one to pick? Those three were the cheapest T4P cartridges I managed to find on short notice. Trying to find something even cheaper, since I'm a cheapskate

I even bought a few very cheap used vinyl records to test the player with (only had one new record previously), but I guess that'll have to wait too

EDIT: Oh looky, found an online store that sells the original replacement cartridge/needle, and it's much cheaper than anything else I found.
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post #14605 of 24370 Old 02-09-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

I was under the impression that at the least the Contours on up are very stable. Remember I'm old Can't remember everything exactly LOL. After all you are just adding capacitance to the power supply and the tubes themselves can't push any more. I think Rhett (Rded) will vouch for the fact the bb helps but is not earth shattering. I think he tried a super bb too and didn't feel for the 3X price it brought enough to justify the cost. He has a V80 driving his Blue Sapphires.

All Dynaudio loudspeakers regardless of the series are impedance corrected, meaning the impedance does not fluctuate like that of other loudspeakers, so a nominal 4Ohms means the impedance does not fluctuate much below and above the 4Ohms except below 100Hz where it becomes more difficult to control the impedance. The Black Box and Super Black Boxes are boxes of capacitance and really are designed to accommodate for large dynamic swings in music combined with a larger speaker with multiple drivers. The V70SE for instance is perfectly suited to drive the C-1's and even C-2's or Sapphires but with the C-4's you would find a Super Black Box necessary. The Black Box and Super Black Box while not necessarily needed on the C-1's, Sapphires and C-2's still offers an improvement in performance and makes for a very good upgrade down the road.

Remember, it is all about the music not the sound!
Mick Tillman
Dynaudio N/A-distributors of Dynaudio, Octave, Theory and Application.
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post #14606 of 24370 Old 02-09-2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dynlunatic View Post

All Dynaudio loudspeakers regardless of the series are impedance corrected, meaning the impedance does not fluctuate like that of other loudspeakers, so a nominal 4Ohms means the impedance does not fluctuate much below and above the 4Ohms except below 100Hz where it becomes more difficult to control the impedance. The Black Box and Super Black Boxes are boxes of capacitance and really are designed to accommodate for large dynamic swings in music combined with a larger speaker with multiple drivers. The V70SE for instance is perfectly suited to drive the C-1's and even C-2's or Sapphires but with the C-4's you would find a Super Black Box necessary. The Black Box and Super Black Box while not necessarily needed on the C-1's, Sapphires and C-2's still offers an improvement in performance and makes for a very good upgrade down the road.

Mick, what would you say about using a V40SE with Contour S1.4s. Would I want for more power like I did with the Naim UnitiQute before adding an outboard amp?

Clearaudio Ovation/Magnify/Concerto v2; Herron Audio VTPH-2
Naim Audio ND5XS/NAC282/HC/NAP250-2; Dynaudio S3.4e2; REL R-328
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post #14607 of 24370 Old 02-09-2012, 02:19 PM
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I bought my first tube amp from Germany a couple of weeks ago. The V70SE to go with my C1s.
It came with 1 Sovtek 12AX7 and 2x RCA 12AT7 + 4x Sovtek 6550WE
I thought I'd pass on some info from my correspondence from Koray Kural at the www.nostubestore.com:

"Sonically, most important tubes in the tube amp topologies are those used in input/preamp stages which is a single 12AX7 tube for your Octave V70SE. This tube gives its sonic character and tones to the system overall. Swapping only this tube with another one would make a serious difference soundwise. Therefore, any upgrade or improvement must start with this stage. Other stages, drivers and output which are RCA 12AT7 and Sovtek 6550 in the amp could be (or must be) just follow ups according to the result of the first upgrade, if necessary.
Here are my suggestions below :

1) Tungsram 12AX7 preferably military stock with balanced sections. Why? Because this tube has an open, warm sound with a large body. The balanced sections property is another "must" since each section of this tube gives the gain for each channel. Here is a link to our web site for this tube >>>http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/04/...v8156b339.html

2) Optionally and with less importance, the RCA 12AT7 driver tubes (only if the stock ones are gray plate types) can be replaced by the black plate Raytheons or Siemens ECC81

3) It is too early to suggest any upgrade for the power tubes. After all or a part of the above done, it might be even unnecessary to do any.

The tubes will come to you tested for anode current draw, GM, gas, heater to cathode insulation, noise and microphonics and matched on the Amplitrex AT1000 computer tester with test scores labeled on boxes.
P.S. As electrons flaw between electrodes inside the tube improve and get stabilized slowly in time, tubes tend to sound better after use for sometime. However, this does not that much apply to the NOS tubes since they were hard tested up to their spec limits being operated 100 hours minimum during quality control process. This was especially important for military and industrial/telecom spec tubes which were intended for war or communication etc. The current production tubes are not subject to such quality control process and strict industrial standard liabilities. So, the end-user (costumer) practically makes the quality control."

After a few hours of listening all I can say is replacing the Sovtek 12AX7 has taken this baby up a whole new level. Much tighter punchy bass and natural sounding instruments.
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post #14608 of 24370 Old 02-09-2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longjohns56 View Post

I bought my first tube amp from Germany a couple of weeks ago. The V70SE to go with my C1s.
It came with 1 Sovtek 12AX7 and 2x RCA 12AT7 + 4x Sovtek 6550WE
I thought I'd pass on some info from my correspondence from Koray Kural at the www.nostubestore.com:

"Sonically, most important tubes in the tube amp topologies are those used in input/preamp stages which is a single 12AX7 tube for your Octave V70SE. This tube gives its sonic character and tones to the system overall. Swapping only this tube with another one would make a serious difference soundwise. Therefore, any upgrade or improvement must start with this stage. Other stages, drivers and output which are RCA 12AT7 and Sovtek 6550 in the amp could be (or must be) just follow ups according to the result of the first upgrade, if necessary.
Here are my suggestions below :

1) Tungsram 12AX7 preferably military stock with balanced sections. Why? Because this tube has an open, warm sound with a large body. The balanced sections property is another "must" since each section of this tube gives the gain for each channel. Here is a link to our web site for this tube >>>http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/04/...v8156b339.html

2) Optionally and with less importance, the RCA 12AT7 driver tubes (only if the stock ones are gray plate types) can be replaced by the black plate Raytheons or Siemens ECC81

3) It is too early to suggest any upgrade for the power tubes. After all or a part of the above done, it might be even unnecessary to do any.

The tubes will come to you tested for anode current draw, GM, gas, heater to cathode insulation, noise and microphonics and matched on the Amplitrex AT1000 computer tester with test scores labeled on boxes.
P.S. As electrons flaw between electrodes inside the tube improve and get stabilized slowly in time, tubes tend to sound better after use for sometime. However, this does not that much apply to the NOS tubes since they were hard tested up to their spec limits being operated 100 hours minimum during quality control process. This was especially important for military and industrial/telecom spec tubes which were intended for war or communication etc. The current production tubes are not subject to such quality control process and strict industrial standard liabilities. So, the end-user (costumer) practically makes the quality control."

After a few hours of listening all I can say is replacing the Sovtek 12AX7 has taken this baby up a whole new level. Much tighter punchy bass and natural sounding instruments.

Great choice of an amp to match up with the C1's. I wish you got the V70 about a year ago. I started with rolling output tubes first and agree the input has the greatest effect on sound. I currently have a Rca 5751 triple mica black plate in place of my 12ax7. Now if you really want a treat (be prepared to spend some serious bucks though) is to replace the 12at7's with Gec A2900/CV6091's (High gain) AND the 6550's with EAT KT88 Diamonds (high transconductance). I bought my Eat's used and they have been very unreliable for me (all serial #'s that start with D have failed in less that 300 total hrs and so far the pair I have that start with E have been rock solid). What a treat I heard things I've never heard before with cd's I thought I knew. I do have some used vintage Gec KT88's ordered and they are supposed to be as good as the Eat's but I haven't heard them yet so I really can't comment. Tung Sol 6550 solid grey and black plates are also very musical and magical. The vintage tubes do seem to last forever.

I have a black box on mine and it really lowered the noise floor and slightly increased dynamics.

BTW are your C1's MKI or MKII?

You asked if anyone has used the KT120's in the Octave forum and I haven't But the Ei KT90 type 2 is another high transconductance tube and you won't believe the power - soundstage and 'EL34' mid range magic sound.
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post #14609 of 24370 Old 02-09-2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynlunatic View Post

All Dynaudio loudspeakers regardless of the series are impedance corrected, meaning the impedance does not fluctuate like that of other loudspeakers, so a nominal 4Ohms means the impedance does not fluctuate much below and above the 4Ohms except below 100Hz where it becomes more difficult to control the impedance. The Black Box and Super Black Boxes are boxes of capacitance and really are designed to accommodate for large dynamic swings in music combined with a larger speaker with multiple drivers. The V70SE for instance is perfectly suited to drive the C-1's and even C-2's or Sapphires but with the C-4's you would find a Super Black Box necessary. The Black Box and Super Black Box while not necessarily needed on the C-1's, Sapphires and C-2's still offers an improvement in performance and makes for a very good upgrade down the road.

Thanks for straightening that issue out. Again the reason I have mine is because it lowered the noise floor more than for dynamics.
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post #14610 of 24370 Old 02-10-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Mick, what would you say about using a V40SE with Contour S1.4s. Would I want for more power like I did with the Naim UnitiQute before adding an outboard amp?

The V40SE makes for a great match with the 1.4's, in fact we did that very same combo at CES last year and the year before with stellar results. You don't need the Black box at all but it does make for a cool upgrade at a later date. Stereophile did a show report at CES 2010 on the V40SE/1.4 combo.

Remember, it is all about the music not the sound!
Mick Tillman
Dynaudio N/A-distributors of Dynaudio, Octave, Theory and Application.
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