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post #14881 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by astrallite View Post

Who here flips Dynaudio bookshelf/monitors upside down? I find my stand doesn't allow the tweeter to reach ear-level so I flipped it the other way to bring the tweeter higher. Does this affect the sound?

My Contour S1.4s are bolted to the Stand4. The Bass/Mid units are ear level, and the tweeters slightly below. They sound perfect.

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post #14882 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

I said nothing against using a sub per say. I use a REL T-7 with my Contours and recommend using a sub, if properly integrated. I just wouldn't ever cross them over at 80 or 100 Hz, as I argued. I cross over below 40 Hz.

I'm also talking about setting up for music where you want to cross over low, rather than for home theater, where you use AV bass management. When you use a system for both, it's a compromise IMHO. Getting it right for HT doesn't necessary get it right for music, and vice versa. I totally understand that most people have to use one system for both, but setup is a compromise. It's like using all-season tires on a car. They aren't optimal for winter, nor for summer -- they are just OK for both. I maintain two sets of wheels with snow tires and performance summer tires.

Please explain, why would you want to crossover low for music and not for HT? Is it because you are not running high level connections through your sub and then to your speakers?

What is wrong with AV bass management?

Just trying to grasp your logic.
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post #14883 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 10:56 AM
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Having been down with stomach flu the past week, i have had plenty time to listen and play around with my Dyn X32s (with or without sub)...

...and the more i listen, the more confused I get..in the store, I had a slight preference for PSB Synchrony Two's (but really liked both) due to their somewhat better 'impact' and low end grunt...but my wife settled it as she preferred the smaller/nicer looking Dyns.

I am struggling a bit as the Dyns appear "too polished' and sometimes it feel like they 'hold back' the music and don't fully sing it out... Can this be due to my current Rotel amplifier? How different might they sound with different electronics? Should I just give up and change for the Synchrony Two's (can probably get wife approval) instead of fiddling around trying to solve it with changing out other components?

Confused..
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post #14884 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 01:16 PM
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In my opinion definitely look into other electronics. I have Dynaudio Contour S1.4. I used them with NAD C375BEE amp and NAD C565BEE CD for a while, but the system really was nothing special. I heard Focus 140 at the dealer with much better electronics (ATC, Musical Fidelity, McIntosh) and knew there was much more potential in them. So first I changed my amp to Electrocompaniet ECI-5 Mk II, which improved things. But CD player is still the limiting factor. Last week I demoed Ayon CD-07s and boy did the things improve. The whole system started to really sing. So I am now awaiting my new Ayon CD-1sc player. You have to consider all the components in your chain in my opinion.
NADs are not bad for the money, but they are just not proper company for my Dynaudio Contours. I suspect it is the same with your X32s and Rotel. I have not listened to X32s, but from what I read in the reviews they are very capable speakers.



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Originally Posted by EnCar View Post

Having been down with stomach flu the past week, i have had plenty time to listen and play around with my Dyn X32s (with or without sub)...

..and the more i listen, the more confused I get..in the store, I had a slight preference for PSB Synchrony Two's (but really liked both) due to their somewhat better 'impact' and low end grunt...but my wife settled it as she preferred the smaller/nicer looking Dyns.

I am struggling a bit as the Dyns appear "too polished' and sometimes it feel like they 'hold back' the music and don't fully sing it out... Can this be due to my current Rotel amplifier? How different might they sound with different electronics? Should I just give up and change for the Synchrony Two's (can probably get wife approval) instead of fiddling around trying to solve it with changing out other components?

Confused..

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post #14885 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by EnCar View Post

Having been down with stomach flu the past week, i have had plenty time to listen and play around with my Dyn X32s (with or without sub)...

...and the more i listen, the more confused I get..in the store, I had a slight preference for PSB Synchrony Two's (but really liked both) due to their somewhat better 'impact' and low end grunt...but my wife settled it as she preferred the smaller/nicer looking Dyns.

I am struggling a bit as the Dyns appear "too polished' and sometimes it feel like they 'hold back' the music and don't fully sing it out... Can this be due to my current Rotel amplifier? How different might they sound with different electronics? Should I just give up and change for the Synchrony Two's (can probably get wife approval) instead of fiddling around trying to solve it with changing out other components?

Confused..

Check out the PSB's. If you preferred them in the store, you may also prefer them in your room. See if they can loan you a pair and do a side by side comparison. Keep the ones you like the most.
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post #14886 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 02:13 PM
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Yes, this may be the best way to do it...I am really confused and want to make sure when spending this amount of money that i get it right and don't sit with buyers remorse. Also, how many hours needing to run in the x32 before they sound their best? What will change over time? I kind of feel that they don't quite "sing out" with the impact and dynamics i had hoped for.
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post #14887 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by EnCar View Post

Yes, this may be the best way to do it...I am really confused and want to make sure when spending this amount of money that i get it right and don't sit with buyers remorse. Also, how many hours needing to run in the x32 before they sound their best? What will change over time? I kind of feel that they don't quite "sing out" with the impact and dynamics i had hoped for.

I wouldn't wait for burn in. People here will tell you it'll make a world of difference, but if I were in your shoes, I'd do as I initially suggested and see if the PSB's still sound better. Break in is more psychosomatic than anything else....

The PSB's are more aggressive sounding, for sure, and have much more low end impact. I enjoyed them when I auditioned, but ultimately, the balance of the Dyns is what I liked.

Dyn's aren't for everyone, so I'm not going to convince you to keep them. Also, your room may be influencing their sound more than the showroom, which is why I suggested bringing those PSB's in your room as well. Never know, the PSB's may sound like crap in your room.....or, they may sound wonderful.
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post #14888 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnCar View Post

I am struggling a bit as the Dyns appear "too polished' and sometimes it feel like they 'hold back' the music and don't fully sing it out... Can this be due to my current Rotel amplifier? How different might they sound with different electronics? Should I just give up and change for the Synchrony Two's (can probably get wife approval) instead of fiddling around trying to solve it with changing out other components?

Confused..

What are you using as source? Dyns tend to show up 'weaker links' further upstream and I've found the primary component to be critical. Swapping to a Rega CD player and upgrading my cartridge made a huge difference in my system and really brought the sound to life.

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post #14889 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jamhead View Post

Check out the PSB's. If you preferred them in the store, you may also prefer them in your room. See if they can loan you a pair and do a side by side comparison. Keep the ones you like the most.

+1

Try the PSB in your home if you can before starting to throw silly money at a problem which may be your speaker and not the elctronics.
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post #14890 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by VNVNation View Post

What are you using as source? Dyns tend to show up 'weaker links' further upstream and I've found the primary component to be critical. Swapping to a Rega CD player and upgrading my cartridge made a huge difference in my system and really brought the sound to life.

Apple lossless (or CD), both fed digital to a Peachtree DAC-IT and onto a Rotel Rx1052. I believe the source should be ok?, no?
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post #14891 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by EnCar View Post

Apple lossless (or CD), both fed digital to a Peachtree DAC-IT and onto a Rotel Rx1052. I believe the source should be ok?, no?

That's a nice combo. You could try some brighter cables between the DAC and the Rotel and see what happens, I run a Kimber Silver Streak from CD to pre and it adds a bit of bite. However, it could just be the neutrality of the dyns not being to your taste and as jamhead said the PSBs might be worth trying in your room.

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post #14892 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamhead View Post

Please explain, why would you want to crossover low for music and not for HT? Is it because you are not running high level connections through your sub and then to your speakers?

What is wrong with AV bass management?

Just trying to grasp your logic.

AV bass management is great for AV. AV also provides a channel of LFE specifically for bass. With music I want to the sub to extend the lower end of my speakers. There is no dedicated channel for it, and I have no bass management for it in my electronics either.

But I'm not an audio engineer, so i can't give you the logic behind it. But I can speak from experience trying what others have suggested to me, and what I have found works best for music. Setting up the sub in my two-channel system like I would set it up for my AV system ends up with boomy bass, muddy presentation, and loss of detail. When I switched to a REL and set it up as REL suggests in their manual -- with the high level input and low crossover -- gave me exactly what I was looking for: bass extension of the main speakers, improved detail and grip in the low end, and an expanded soundstage. The sub disappears in the room. There doesn't have to be an logic to it. The result is good enough for me.

But I have a separate system for music for the exact reason that I never found listening to music on my AV system very satisfying, even though I think it sounds awesome for movies.

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post #14893 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by lulimet View Post

+1

Try the PSB in your home if you can before starting to throw silly money at a problem which may be your speaker and not the elctronics.

Yes, this is what I will try to do. I definitely like the Dynaudio sound, but the X32s lack the 'impact' I wish for. Perhaps this comes with the higher end Dyn series, but then at much to high a cost. Will try to see how the PSBs compare in my room before deciding what to do.
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post #14894 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 09:44 PM
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FWIW - I have a pair of Focus 140s that never really sounded "right" with my two Rotel amps. I've had better results with an old Acurus amp and MUCH better results with an Audio Research amp. I was thinking there was something "wrong" with the speakers on the Rotels. Oversimplified, of course...
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post #14895 of 23198 Old 02-25-2012, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Music is really not very satisfying on my HT system, even though I'm running an Arcam AVR and Dynaudio Audience speakers. It's great for multi-channel video, but I don't get excited by music on it the way I do on my Naim/Contour two-channel setup.

I don't like playing back 2ch material in two channels only through my AVR. 2ch playback sounds a lot more dynamic through my 2ch pre-amp (both the AVR and 2ch pre-amp were utilising the same poweramp via a A/B bypass switch)

But I now prefer 2ch material being played back in surroundsound on my AVR. More dynamic than strictly 2ch playback.

And funny how people here are talking about PSB or Dynaudio speakers! I have ended up with PSB Imagine B's as my fronts and DM2/6 as my surrounds. In New Zealand they both retail for the exact same price and are similarly spec. I would say the PSB's are more dynamic and reveal instruments in the midrange more... but the DM2/6 have a nicer top end as things like symbol splash sounds nicer and also vocals sound more natural. I'm actually finding the two sets of speakers complement each other nicely in the one surroundsound system.

I know it breaks the 'rules'... but damn they sound good working together. I get a dynamic front stage with individual instruments nicely defined and at the same time believably real sounding vocals.
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post #14896 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by hunde View Post

FWIW - I have a pair of Focus 140s that never really sounded "right" with my two Rotel amps. I've had better results with an old Acurus amp and MUCH better results with an Audio Research amp. I was thinking there was something "wrong" with the speakers on the Rotels. Oversimplified, of course...

The more and more I hear from other members, the more I am starting to agree with PumaCat...and others...assertion of how important electronics are. I mean, don't get me wrong; no one ever thought they were unimportant. It's just so damn hard; I could make a compelling argument for either side.

OT1H, the best electronics in the world can only sound as good as the speakers that transduce their sound; bring it to your ears. OTOH, speakers are merely the conduit...and to get the best from them, you need to feed them what they're capable of delivering; GIGO, and all that jazz...lol

I guess, in the end...like most things in life; the answer doesn't lie at this end of the spectrum or that. Good system matching is the key. Duh, don't mind me; I'm out of sorts right now...lol

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post #14897 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamhead View Post

I wouldn't wait for burn in. People here will tell you it'll make a world of difference, but if I were in your shoes, I'd do as I initially suggested and see if the PSB's still sound better. Break in is more psychosomatic than anything else....

The PSB's are more aggressive sounding, for sure, and have much more low end impact. I enjoyed them when I auditioned, but ultimately, the balance of the Dyns is what I liked.

Dyn's aren't for everyone, so I'm not going to convince you to keep them. Also, your room may be influencing their sound more than the showroom, which is why I suggested bringing those PSB's in your room as well. Never know, the PSB's may sound like crap in your room.....or, they may sound wonderful.

Sorry but I highly disagree regarding burn-in. I have burned in 2 pairs of C1's (yes a different speaker) and between 100 - 200 hrs with the originals were just horrible. At 250 hrs they really started to sound great again and 350 hrs they settled down. As far as the MKII I am very impatient. I wasn't going to run my Octave or Meridian 7/24. So I borrowed my sons system (SS) and the sound quality is no where close to mine so I didn't hear any bad burn-in time.

Honestly the C1 MKI sounded great out of box but fairly quickly went downhill. I can't speak for any other Dyn speakers but it would be a shame for someone to sell their speakers during that 'bad burn-in' time.

I do agree with you on the room. Too many variables especially when comparing to what you hear at a dealer. Places like Magnolia don't have a clue how to set up a system to get the most out of it.
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post #14898 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunde View Post

FWIW - I have a pair of Focus 140s that never really sounded "right" with my two Rotel amps. I've had better results with an old Acurus amp and MUCH better results with an Audio Research amp. I was thinking there was something "wrong" with the speakers on the Rotels. Oversimplified, of course...

One of the issues might be that most Rotels are not rated at 4Ohms at all. Rotel makes a decent amp, and I have one driving a pair of B&W 804s, but I don't know that they are the right amp for Dynaudio. While B&W can dip to 3Ohm loads in certain frequencies, they are an 8Ohm speaker. Dyn's load is pretty much straight 4Ohm.
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post #14899 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Iostream View Post

One of the issues might be that most Rotels are not rated at 4Ohms at all. Rotel makes a decent amp, and I have one driving a pair of B&W 804s, but I don't know that they are the right amp for Dynaudio. While B&W can dip to 3Ohm loads in certain frequencies, they are an 8Ohm speaker. Dyn's load is pretty much straight 4Ohm.

Rotel has many amps rated @ 4 ohms. They also double power at 4 ohms whereas some amps do not double @4 ohms.
A straight 4 ohm load is less strain than a load that has numerous changes in the ohm load. I think that subject has been mentioned by Mick.
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post #14900 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

The more and more I hear from other members, the more I am starting to agree with PumaCat...and others...assertion of how important electronics are. I mean, don't get me wrong; no one ever thought they were unimportant. It's just so damn hard; I could make a compelling argument for either side....

I have a Naim amp rated 140 WPC at 4 ohms and an Arcam rated a bit higher at 160 WPC at 4 ohms. Both are British manufacture. They sound significantly different, with the Naim being vastly superior. As different as changing speakers can sound. But they also have significant differences in cost.

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post #14901 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 10:52 AM
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Ill just insert that the first time I heard the X16s, I also demo'd the Totem Sttafs and the Dali Ikon 2. I remember talking to Rhett and telling him the Dyns sounded like crap, they were lifeless and boring. I thought the Staffs would be the speakers I was gonna buy. Rhett urged me to call the dealer and setup another listening session, he told me to ask the dealer to drive the speakers for at least another 50 hrs before I came back. When I called my dealer, he told me the X16s had less then 10 hrs on them when I heard them, and that he'd run them in and get them ready to listen to again. When I went back the Sttafs and X16s both had about 75 hrs I was told. This time I was in a delima, did I like the Sttafs or the X16s better. I wasnt sure. I was later called by Sunny to come to a Dyn/Octave open house. When I got there, he told me Id hear the pair with 150 hrs on them. I listened and they were just slightly better then the last time I heard them, but it seemed they opened up a little more. My buddy and I had just heard the 3.4s in HT, the 5.4 in 2-ch, and then the C1s, next up were the lowly X16s. I didn't have any "idiotphile" music at the time, so I was there with a bunch of Alternative Rock and one John Mayer live CD. Anyways, I rocked the house with my grunge music.

I never believed in break-in... but I can't deny what I heard. They do open up in time.

Right now I am listening to Smashing Pumpkins and Foo Fighters on Vinyl, and with my meager Pro-ject Debute-3, Sumiko Pearl Cart, and MF V-LPS phono amp thru my Integra, they produce a very good bass response, and a high level of upper frequency energy, coupled with very good mid-range. I think one of the best things that I find with my Excites is that when I sit and listen to Sunny Day Real Estate as Im doing now, that the 16 count played on the hi-hat sounds just like when I play the 16 count on the hi-hat(OK, well better, cause Im an amature drummer) but it sounds so real. Snare pop sounds tight, a piccolo sounds like a piccolo. And I love the attack and decay of symbols. Can't wait to make it better!

I used to have a stock cart and used the Integra's built in phono pre-amp, I have to say that changing some things up, and getting better cart and pre-amp made a huge improvement in my setup and the way things sounded. I was gonna put vinyl on the yeah, cool, but whatever, when I feel like it list, but the changes made me not only find that I really like vinyl, but also that my setup has much more potential then I was getting from it. I have finally been victorious in getting the wifes approval for a Naim Nait 5i, and I can't wait to see how that improves things also.

Matching gear makes a huge imact on how things sound, IMO.

EnCar - I think you need to buy whats best for you. Whether PSB or Dynaudio, its a lot of money for a hobby, IMO, and therefore get what you feel like was the best $$ spent. I think in-home demo is a great way to see what works best for you, Any good dealer should allow for it. I also think tho that with proper break-in and maybe a better compliment of gear for the Dyns(perhaps the Rotel is not a good pairing), you might find they are just as good. I listened to as many speakers that I could come across, Studio 20s, PSB Image, Kef, B&W, Dali, Amphion, and a bunch of others. They were all very nice, I liked many of them, disliked a few, did some heavy petting with a couple, but loved only one.

I would never tell you only to get Dyns. Get what you love. Dyns aren't for everyone, just like Paradigms are only for the hearing impared(j/k, I know a couple Digm owners that lurk in this thread, Im waiting till they come out of the cave of Digm sound, LMAO). My point is get whats best for you, only you can make that choice.

Good Luck with your choice.

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post #14902 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 11:00 AM
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Its been my opinion that Dyns don't do well with AVRs bass management, I run all my Excites large with no crossover, even the X22, it just seems to me that they have a more natural sound, and voices sound better coming thru the center channel. Action scenes don't seem to phase the X22 at all, I was very surprised when I got it.

I have often wondered if because Dynaudio uses 1st order crossovers, if the 2nd order crossovers that receivers use responsible for that slightly off sound that occurs when using an AVRs bass management.

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post #14903 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by EnCar View Post

Yes, this may be the best way to do it...I am really confused and want to make sure when spending this amount of money that i get it right and don't sit with buyers remorse. Also, how many hours needing to run in the x32 before they sound their best? What will change over time? I kind of feel that they don't quite "sing out" with the impact and dynamics i had hoped for.

Hi EnCar, Although I've never heard ur x32s before, I'm a firm believer that "It all starts with the soucre component." Good amplification also helps as well. Like others above have said, it it wise to consider all of the components in the mix. I try to create a synergistic relationship within my system.
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post #14904 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by lulimet View Post

+1

Try the PSB in your home if you can before starting to throw silly money at a problem which may be your speaker and not the elctronics.

...and let's not forget about setup. You may also want to experiment with positioning as well, if u haven't already, before u throw more money at ur dilemma.
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post #14905 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

Sorry but I highly disagree regarding burn-in. I have burned in 2 pairs of C1's (yes a different speaker) and between 100 - 200 hrs with the originals were just horrible. At 250 hrs they really started to sound great again and 350 hrs they settled down. As far as the MKII I am very impatient. I wasn't going to run my Octave or Meridian 7/24. So I borrowed my sons system (SS) and the sound quality is no where close to mine so I didn't hear any bad burn-in time.

Honestly the C1 MKI sounded great out of box but fairly quickly went downhill. I can't speak for any other Dyn speakers but it would be a shame for someone to sell their speakers during that 'bad burn-in' time.

I do agree with you on the room. Too many variables especially when comparing to what you hear at a dealer. Places like Magnolia don't have a clue how to set up a system to get the most out of it.

Hi OctaDyn Dude, not to start anything here, but are u referring to Magnolia inside of Best Buy?...or are u referring to the standalone core Magnolia stores?
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post #14906 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Rotel has many amps rated @ 4 ohms. They also double power at 4 ohms whereas some amps do not double @4 ohms.
A straight 4 ohm load is less strain than a load that has numerous changes in the ohm load. I think that subject has been mentioned by Mick.

Actually you are right, as they have moved to class D it seems they are putting 4Ohm ratings on more pieces.
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post #14907 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

Ill just insert that the first time I heard the X16s, I also demo'd the Totem Sttafs and the Dali Ikon 2. I remember talking to Rhett and telling him the Dyns sounded like crap, they were lifeless and boring.

I auditioned some X16's last week and felt exactly the same. I described them as analytical in sound. They were just boring. I couldn't wait to get back into a room where some DM's were playing.

I rang the shop this morning to ask how long they have had those particular X16's and how many hours roughly would have been on them. Not long and probably under 50 hours was the reply as they keep a low stock and just turn over the display models.

I honestly don't know how they expect people to be impressed by their speakers and fork out lots of money for them when they sound as unimpressive as they do in a demo.
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post #14908 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

Lot long and probably under 50 hours was the reply as they keep a low stock and just turn over the display models.

I honestly don't know how they expect people to be impressed by their speakers and fork out lots of money for them when they sound as unimpressive as they do in a demo.

Doesn't sound like a good dealer. They should know dyns need run-in and keep a well run-in display pair for demo's. I wonder if Dynaudio have a policy regarding demo stock?

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post #14909 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

I auditioned some X16's last week and felt exactly the same. I described them as analytical in sound. They were just boring. I couldn't wait to get back into a room where some DM's were playing.

I rang the shop this morning to ask how long they have had those particular X16's and how many hours roughly would have been on them. Lot long and probably under 50 hours was the reply as they keep a low stock and just turn over the display models.

I honestly don't know how they expect people to be impressed by their speakers and fork out lots of money for them when they sound as unimpressive as they do in a demo.

What I found is the highs just didn't have the sparkle that shows up once theyre broke-in. Also the bass is a little flat until they get worked in, and then the slam starts to hit, and it makes music much more dynamic. When I first got the ones that came home with me, they were from a dealer that had closed I guess, and my dealer sold them to me with 20 hrs on them.... I played mostly movies on them for a week and let them get some time on them. The Center channel was the display, my dealer wanted to get to all Gloss Black setup, so I got it already broke in.

I heard the DM 3/7s and they seemed a little forward in the lower trebble/upper mids. Im not sure the 2/6s are the same or not, and it could have been the location, but even the dealer was dialing back the volume to level match to the S1.4s, because they were too loud. We were listening to Celine Dion, so its not like rock music. They lacked some resolution and overall sound quality, but they were still nice. I want to use the DM2/6s for surrounds eventually.

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post #14910 of 23198 Old 02-26-2012, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

Ill just insert that the first time I heard the X16s, I also demo'd the Totem Sttafs and the Dali Ikon 2. I remember talking to Rhett and telling him the Dyns sounded like crap, they were lifeless and boring.....

This is much spot on my experience.."lifeless and boring", goods words to describe my feelings about X32...they never really "sang out" as i hoped for. Don't get me wrong, they are wonderful speakers with great balanced & neutral sound, but they just never managed to "spark up" and connect to me. I returned them today.

So, now I am back on square one. Issue is I don't dare spending >$3k on just a promise that it will sound great over time. They need sound convincing enough in the demo room...AND if I need to get a $2k amp on the promise of getting what I want my setup to be, it starts to run up some serious money and i am not sure i want to go there, unless i can hear for myself that this it it....Not sure who in the tri state area have Naim AND Dyns?
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