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post #22801 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post

I'm still of the belief that a good looking, well constructed speaker sounds better. It has more to do with psycho acoustics.
It's all the perception of your listening experience. Let's say two speakers are identical sonically, but one is crappy looking and the other one is a beautiful piece of furniture; wouldn't you want the better looking speaker in your room? And even though they are identical in their sonic presentation, the better looking, furniture quality speaker is going to sound better; because of your aesthetic sensibilities.

enough troublemaking,
Aaron
What about price point which everyone here argues about?? Lets say the crappy looking ones are 1/2 or 1/4 the price.. What now?? Ready to get bashed about psycho-acoustics?
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post #22802 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
What about price point which everyone here argues about?? Lets say the crappy looking ones are 1/2 or 1/4 the price.. What now?? Ready to get bashed about psycho-acoustics?
Well, the Dyn C1's are 1/3 the price of the Raidhos. Yet they are better looking and to my ears are better sounding. Bring it on.
Psycho-acoustics is what drives this business.

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post #22803 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
Well...not quite yet; still have 4 posts left in me

Look; I'm not saying...all things being equal...aesthetics don't mean anything. Of course there's pride of ownership; but if you're going to admit, that you take on a bias...and whichever speaker looks better to you...is going to sound better. Man...I don't know, how you ever give kit a fair shake. AFAIC, that's not much different...than judging by the badge!

But please; have you ever really looked at Harbeths? Or do you just have this, recently admitted...pre-conceived notion??

You think this looks "crappy"?
Yes, I know the Harbeths and Yes, I can't stand all the screws in the front.

Of course I can't do the Magicos on my saw horses. I couldn't do those in my wood shop either....that's all CNC work with specialized aluminum milling equipment.

I've listened to the Magicos on numerous occasions. For the money...nah.
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post #22804 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
Well, the Dyn C1's are 1/3 the price of the Raidhos. Yet they are better looking and to my ears are better sounding. Bring it on.
Psycho-acoustics is what drives this business.
Bring what on??? You made the statement regarding 2 speakers that sounded the same. I added to the statement by asking if the ugly pair was 1/2 or 1/4 the price of the pretty ones. This has nothing to do with Raidho (unless that's what you want). We all know you think Raidho's are a rip off. That's fine with me. Guess what? I only care about what I hear not what anyone else thinks.

This is a Dyn thread and I only brought up Raidho's because to me they are better but super expensive. BTW that is a compliment to Dyn. They are very different compared to Dyn's. Different strokes for different folks.
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post #22805 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
What about price point which everyone here argues about?? Lets say the crappy looking ones are 1/2 or 1/4 the price.. What now?? Ready to get bashed about psycho-acoustics?
Sorry if I offended you.

But your statement "Ready to get bashed about psycho-acoustics?" kind of got me wondering.
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post #22806 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 04:17 PM
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I'll chime in on aesthetics from my current POV only as my former POV was decidedly different. While I've always admired nice form, it used to never hold sway over function for me. But as I've gotten more distinguished (older) that is no longer true. I'm now willing to sacrifice a little bit of function for nice form and am willing to pay more for it up to a point (that point is totally arbitrary for everyone). So here's some pictures of my wife j/k

I've never had Dynaudio in my own room, but the two times I've heard them (Focus/Contour) I was impressed. My current speakers (PSB Synchrony towers) look very good to me, but if I had them in my room I suspect I might prefer the Contour sound by a slight margin since I can feed either plenty of power. Assuming the last sentence to be true then holding my old POV the Contours would be in and the PSB out without question. Given my current POV the PSB would stay because for the x number of minutes I would look at them during a day the aesthetics would please me and if I'm giving up a slight bit in sound quality for that visual it's worth it to me.

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post #22807 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 04:28 PM
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OH MY I feel partially responsible for the heated debate...I know its all in fun. Looking closer at the Harbeth cabinet work it actually looks nice. But it doesn't seem to have the complex inner workings of say the Magicos, PMC, and so on... But I am surprised how expensive the Dynaudio speakers are when they use Soft Dome Tweeter, MDF cabinet (which is pretty common), and polypropylene cone. Nothing special but I guess its how they implement it all together that makes for such a sound people love (at least from what I have read). Crazy how expensive it is for what your truly getting but in the end I guess what matters most is in the end result..."Sound"
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post #22808 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 05:15 PM
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OH MY I feel partially responsible for the heated debate...
This "heated" debate is nothing new, just an average day at the office
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post #22809 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jgiddyup View Post
I've never had Dynaudio in my own room, but the two times I've heard them (Focus/Contour) I was impressed. My current speakers (PSB Synchrony towers) look very good to me, but if I had them in my room I suspect I might prefer the Contour sound by a slight margin since I can feed either plenty of power. Assuming the last sentence to be true then holding my old POV the Contours would be in and the PSB out without question. Given my current POV the PSB would stay because for the x number of minutes I would look at them during a day the aesthetics would please me and if I'm giving up a slight bit in sound quality for that visual it's worth it to me.
The only Contour that would be a comparable match to your Synchrony would be the 5.4, a handsome speaker but maybe not as clean and sleek as the Synchrony line to some. But man that 3.4 Platinum to me just looks gorgeous and i think would be beautiful enough to psycho acoustically make me think twice even when faced with more advanced speaker designs.
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post #22810 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

You think this looks "crappy"?



Look, there's no accounting for taste, style, and preference; and they may not be everyone's cup of tea. But "crappy"??
I think the wood grain, colour and chamfering(??) are quite nice but all those screws in the front face....!! shame because it has a sort of nice retro-ish charm going.
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post #22811 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by don480 View Post
OH MY I feel partially responsible for the heated debate...I know its all in fun. Looking closer at the Harbeth cabinet work it actually looks nice. But it doesn't seem to have the complex inner workings of say the Magicos, PMC, and so on... But I am surprised how expensive the Dynaudio speakers are when they use Soft Dome Tweeter, MDF cabinet (which is pretty common), and polypropylene cone. Nothing special but I guess its how they implement it all together that makes for such a sound people love (at least from what I have read). Crazy how expensive it is for what your truly getting but in the end I guess what matters most is in the end result..."Sound"
Yea Don, it's all your fault...LOL.

1), a good silk soft dome tweeter costs more to build than ribbons.
2) the Dyn midrange speakers are more than just polypropylene cones.
3) 90+% of speakers are built with MDF. As I mentioned in a previous post, there are different levels of MDF. I pay more for high quality MDF than some top-grade plywood, so please don't discount MDF. MDF also has many virtues that ply or solid hardwoods don't have.
I have a special veneer vacuum press, so i can apply a veneer to any material.

Basically I'm saying that these speaker manufacturers that are using MDF aren't doing it because of cost. Like I said, good MDF is not inexpensive. There are inherent properties to good MDF that you can't get from plywood or solid wood.

Edit: I don't build speakers, but I know the inherent basics. But I do know woods and materials and their characteristics.

Last edited by Borderdog; 07-19-2014 at 06:39 PM.
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post #22812 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 06:16 PM
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For the record, my PMCs look like sh*t but they sound fking awesome.

Why can't we list equipment in our signature? How odd...
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post #22813 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 06:42 PM
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For the record, my PMCs look like sh*t but they sound fking awesome.
Just turn the lights off at night so you you don't have to look at them.
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post #22814 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 08:34 PM
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So as many of you know that Ive been dealing with acoustic issues, mainly those were echoing and a shifting of the imaging to the right of center. Well, I have hung all my panels in the stairwell and on the left wall in my house, and also put in a bass trap. I had started with the left wall and bass trap as it was obviously the easiest place to put the panels up. All week I have been putting the panels up in the stairwell. Well I have finally been able to play some music and really test out what Ive done. The bass has tighten up significantly and the boom is now controlled in my room. The image shift is back to dead center. The sound stage is much better and instruments are much much much better placed. The music comes from a distinct place in the sound stage and not bouncing all over the room. The mids and highs are much clearer and detailed. The biggest effect on correcting all of this was the panels in my stairwell. When I first put up the ones on the left side of the room and the bass trap I didn't notice much of a change, but after completing the panels last night and listen to music today and one movie this morning, the difference is extraordinary. My MIL came over today and she was like, "oohhh ok so this is what you were doing? they look good... then she says, you know the echo is gone, i could hear the echo thru the phone when Kristin and I would talk.. but its gone. OH good job and it looks good."

That was probably the biggest compliment that I could have got.

Here is the completed project.




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post #22815 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
My MIL came over today and she was like, "oohhh ok so this is what you were doing? they look good... then she says, you know the echo is gone, i could hear the echo thru the phone when Kristin and I would talk.. but its gone. OH good job and it looks good."

That was probably the biggest compliment that I could have got.

Here is the completed project.
Talk about dedication, where do you actually sit though? I didn't see a listening position
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post #22816 of 23183 Old 07-19-2014, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dynero View Post
Talk about dedication, where do you actually sit though? I didn't see a listening position
right there in the middle.

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post #22817 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
So as many of you know that Ive been dealing with acoustic issues, mainly those were echoing and a shifting of the imaging to the right of center. Well, I have hung all my panels in the stairwell and on the left wall in my house, and also put in a bass trap. I had started with the left wall and bass trap as it was obviously the easiest place to put the panels up. All week I have been putting the panels up in the stairwell. Well I have finally been able to play some music and really test out what Ive done. The bass has tighten up significantly and the boom is now controlled in my room. The image shift is back to dead center. The sound stage is much better and instruments are much much much better placed. The music comes from a distinct place in the sound stage and not bouncing all over the room. The mids and highs are much clearer and detailed. The biggest effect on correcting all of this was the panels in my stairwell. When I first put up the ones on the left side of the room and the bass trap I didn't notice much of a change, but after completing the panels last night and listen to music today and one movie this morning, the difference is extraordinary. My MIL came over today and she was like, "oohhh ok so this is what you were doing? they look good... then she says, you know the echo is gone, i could hear the echo thru the phone when Kristin and I would talk.. but its gone. OH good job and it looks good."

That was probably the biggest compliment that I could have got.

Here is the completed project.
Looks great! good choice of color for the panels! In my case then panels eventually looked better then expected, even the non art ones, most people that visit actually lie the look of them.

Your impressions sound pretty much what I also heard after treating my room. I also found that the realness of the timbre improved a lot.
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post #22818 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
right there in the middle.
Whoa, tough room, are those Excite or Focus surrounds?
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post #22819 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by don480 View Post
OH MY I feel partially responsible for the heated debate...I know its all in fun. Looking closer at the Harbeth cabinet work it actually looks nice. But it doesn't seem to have the complex inner workings of say the Magicos, PMC, and so on... But I am surprised how expensive the Dynaudio speakers are when they use Soft Dome Tweeter, MDF cabinet (which is pretty common), and polypropylene cone. Nothing special but I guess its how they implement it all together that makes for such a sound people love (at least from what I have read). Crazy how expensive it is for what your truly getting but in the end I guess what matters most is in the end result..."Sound"
Well Don; that was my point exactly. Harbeths, don't have the "advanced" materials, or "complex" inner-workings...of say Magico, or Wilson; or even, as you mention...the Line-Transmission design of PMC. But then again...neither do Dyns, IMO. That's not a put-down; in fact, if anything...it's a defense...of both Harbeth and Dynaudio.

Don't rag Harbeth...and then hold Dynaudio up, as some kind of beacon of innovation; they're not...lol. But neither has to be...to sound good; or be considered "well-built".

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I think the wood grain, colour and chamfering(??) are quite nice but all those screws in the front face....!! shame because it has a sort of nice retro-ish charm going.
See...to each his own; but I kind of "like" the screws. It reminds me...at least something on this speaker, was still done by hand.

For the record...more than any other speaker, I have ever heard about; Harbeth STRONGLY discourages, listening with the grills removed. I usually discount such claims, as audiophile hooey; that they were "voiced", to be used with the grills on...but they actually do sound better, grills-on IMO.

To discourage people from removing them...they are form fitted (how about that, Harbeth haters? You think plastic grills, and plastic pegs/peg-holes...is high-crafted art? ); a metal frame, groove-fitted...tightly I might add...into the baffle of the cabinet. Maybe the screws...are also meant, to force you to keep the grills on...lol.

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Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
1), a good silk soft dome tweeter costs more to build than ribbons.
I don't mean to be contrarian, at every turn; but I can't concur with this. I mean, maybe soft-domes don't cost any more than ribbons; but I can't say (m)any of them, really cost very much to begin with. I've been researching drivers, of late. PMC for example, works with SEAS to develop their tweeters. I don't have a problem with this. In fact, I was just having this discussion...with someone the other day.

It's fine, the few companies...that develop drivers in-house (both Dyn and Harbeth do, BTW; though to be fair...I think Harbeth sources its tweeter). To me, it's a sound business strategy. To para-phrase: let's let the experts, do what they're experts at. Why should we build a factory, and tool-up; when they've been doing it...and doing it well...for years? Now...does that mean PMC, pulls SEAS off the shelf, or hits up Madisound for 10,000 of them? Of course not; they work with them, spec it out, etc. But when it comes to knocking them out...PMC lets SEAS, do the heavy lifting. Again...I have zero problem with that; and I don't think one is necessarily "better" than the other (and it's probably what 99% of speaker manufactures do, BTW).

But...by all accounts; the tweeter, that pretty closely resembles what PMC puts...in many of its high-dollar speakers...is the SEAS Prestige 27TFFC. Cost, to any Tom, Dick, or CD...with an internet connection? $47! I don't like "revealing" some of this information, because a) it's nice to have a "secret" (show me an audiophile, that doesn't like to be "in the know"...lol) and b) I don't want to shatter the "illusion" for anyone else. But I've seen $5,000 speakers...with $200 worth of off-the-shelf drivers in them. You think the "box", is worth the other $4800?

Look...you guys know, I'm not one of those all-hi-end audio-is-snake-oil objectivists; but I'm not a please-sheer-me-like-the-sheep-I-am, audio-fool either. I'm a middle-of-the-roader, if ever there was one. I like knowing the truth; but then I accept the fact, that even if I am "over-paying"...it's the way things works. If I start thinking about mark-ups, at the car dealership...department store, grocery store; it would be a tough place, to live and consume...lol.

But that's why it rubs me the wrong way, when fans of one brand...will single out another; and call it "over-priced". Like their brand, is a hero to the hobbyist; and is priced "justly". It's ALL "over-priced"...lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxwired View Post
For the record, my PMCs look like sh*t but they sound fking awesome.
For the record; not ALL PMCs, look like sh*t...lol. Tom happens to have, the studio version...of PMCs ~$24,000 IB2i. By foregoing the "fancy" wood cabinet; he paid pennies on the dollar...but still gets, $24k "worth" of sound.

(and they still, don't look like sh*t, IMO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynero View Post
Whoa, tough room, are those Excite or Focus surrounds?
VERY tough room, indeed.

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato

Last edited by CDLehner; 07-20-2014 at 06:44 AM.
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post #22820 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 06:45 AM
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Whoa, tough room, are those Excite or Focus surrounds?
Yea it's been a tough room to get under control. But it's improved A LOT here recently. I might add 1-2 more panels and change out the area rug to a thick and larger one.

Those are actually DM2/6s. Last night I was watching Lone Survivor on blu-ray and they kept me right in the middle if the action. Helocoppters flying above me and bullets whizing past, explosions behind me, those DMs are fantastic speakers. They really hold their own and I'm not sure anything more is needed for surrounds.
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post #22821 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 06:51 AM
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Looks great! good choice of color for the panels! In my case then panels eventually looked better then expected, even the non art ones, most people that visit actually lie the look of them.

Your impressions sound pretty much what I also heard after treating my room. I also found that the realness of the timbre improved a lot.
Thank you very much! Everyone that's seen them in person has been impressed. People in this hobby like those of us on this forum appreciate things like this and what they do, but other people dont get it and so it's nice when they see it and actually say something positive.

I do have to say that the 260s sound has changed and sounds smoother. Still need more time with everything setup this way.
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post #22822 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 06:56 AM
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Thanks for pointing that out CD. Yeah, although I consider myself financially fortunate I am raising a family as sole bread winner so $20k speakers are not in the cards, even $10k would be pushing the limits of my wife's patience with the hobby (and she's been VERY understanding, LOL). So I was really lucky to score these speakers and I can thank fedex for paying for half of them. They damaged one of them in shipping and paid a generous settlement. So I ended up paying out of pocket very little for these world class speakers. That's why after being a shameless box swapper for years I have basically married these speakers. I've even considered painting them to improve the appearance but that would truly mean keeping them for life and just like any marriage I prefer to leave my divorce options open : ).

Callas, really like what you've done there. The panels on the stairs are very well done. Staggering them like that makes them look less like panels and more like decor.

Why can't we list equipment in our signature? How odd...
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post #22823 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by don480 View Post
OH MY I feel partially responsible for the heated debate...I know its all in fun. Looking closer at the Harbeth cabinet work it actually looks nice. But it doesn't seem to have the complex inner workings of say the Magicos, PMC, and so on... But I am surprised how expensive the Dynaudio speakers are when they use Soft Dome Tweeter, MDF cabinet (which is pretty common), and polypropylene cone. Nothing special but I guess its how they implement it all together that makes for such a sound people love (at least from what I have read). Crazy how expensive it is for what your truly getting but in the end I guess what matters most is in the end result..."Sound"
Unlike a lot of 'less expensive' speaker brands Dynaudio - B&W - Raidho design and manufacturer their own drivers cabinets crossovers etc. Dynaudio has a 3" voice coil for a 6.7" driver in the C1. That's unheard of. The coil is made of a poor conductor - aluminum. On paper why would anyone do that? Well the aluminum is very light which brings out the speed of the driver. Add some great magnets and build them with extremely tight tolerances and now you have a great driver. Now design a crossover to get multiple drivers to integrate them all together seamlessly and you almost have a speaker. Now design a cabinet to make it all come together. Raidho for example uses a ceramic cone in their 'C' series which is very hard unlike polypropylene which is soft. The 'D' series uses a particle accelerator to fuse/create 1.5 carats of a diamond coat on their 4.5" driver to give it an even harder surface (actually 140 times harder than ceramic). Makes for a very different sound. Their ribbon tweeter has a diaphragm that only weighs 0.02 grams. Because of that there is about 1/2 less ringing than that of a soft dome and 1/4 or more less than a metal dome. The end result is a smoother and more natural high end. Engineers don't design this stuff for free! Another Raidho trait is they are designed to be used in un-treated rooms. If anything they would suggest some diffusion like a bunch if twigs off to the sides. That considered Dynaudio is a fantastic value. Compared to Magico and Raidho the Dyn's are 'chump change'

What I'm saying you can't judge a speaker based on materials used. Even the specs can be deceiving. The Dyn C1's go below the rated 45 hz. My D1's do not go below the rated 50hz (but in all fairness I'm comparing a 4.5" D1 driver to a 6.7" C1 driver). As far as looks everyone has their own taste. When I bought my original Dyn C1's I thought they were ugly but unique. It took a couple of years for the looks to grow on me. It got a little better for me when I got the C1 Sig's in Mocha. The Black baffle and Mocha finish looked a lot better than my Cherry originals. Switching from the black Stand4 to the black/chrome Stand4 helped even more in the looks dept. Personally I love the looks of my D1's and optional all black alien looking stands. The finish is even better than the C1 Sig's.

In the end it's all about the sound you want that you can afford.

As a side note I helped install and setup a 300K+ system yesterday. The room is approx 18' X 30' with no treatments. The speakers are 6'10" tall (Raidho D5's) and none of us no matter where we stood or sat heard any reflections or bass nodes. Truly jaw dropping amazing.

Correction the room is 16' X 28'

Last edited by OctaDyn_Dude; 07-20-2014 at 08:13 AM.
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post #22824 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jaxwired View Post
Callas, really like what you've done there. The panels on the stairs are very well done. Staggering them like that makes them look less like panels and more like decor.
Thanks Jax,

I did the staggered look for 2 reasons, and I hoped it was for the right reasons. One for looks, cause I couldn't see another way in which it would look good going up the stairs and I thought well at least that'll match the flow of the stairs.... now the other reason and more important I was thinking that with one panel on the upper corner and one in the lower corner I might do a better job of controlling the bass in that spot, the bass was built up in that area, its helped to control it well, but I do think that if I had permission to put one next to the lower one I would and it would do an even better job, but the wife already thinks it looks crowded as is, so that won't happen. Now a 3rd thing happened that I wasn't expecting, because of the way the echoes where up in the stairwell the master bedroom would hear a lot of the bass and noise.... so the panels have absorbed mostly everything you heard in that room, and it made the wife happy that she can watch tv up there without listening to whatever Im doing down here.

Like you I am a sole provider in my house, so I understand where you're coming from with regards to your purchases. Im married to the 260s for quite a while myself.

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post #22825 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 09:16 AM
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...................

Keeping the conversation relative to Dynaudio, technically there’s plenty,

http://www.dynaudio.com/int/about_dy...echnology1.php

Magnesium silicate polymer membrane

Coated soft dome tweeter

Furniture-grade cabinets

Die-cast aluminium baskets

CNC machining

Center magnet system

Vented magnet system

Aluminium voice coils

Ferrofluid

High quality 1st order crossovers

Dynaudio directivity control

Dynaudio fine tuning

and then there is how each technically presents and resolves our appreciation of the music and it’s portrayed tonal properties.

...................................

And here I thought I was just whistling in the wind , but most of the above topics have indeed been addressed in the last few pages.
Keep them coming.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #22826 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 05:16 PM
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Thanks for pointing that out CD. Yeah, although I consider myself financially fortunate I am raising a family as sole bread winner so $20k speakers are not in the cards, even $10k would be pushing the limits of my wife's patience with the hobby (and she's been VERY understanding, LOL). So I was really lucky to score these speakers and I can thank fedex for paying for half of them. They damaged one of them in shipping and paid a generous settlement. So I ended up paying out of pocket very little for these world class speakers. That's why after being a shameless box swapper for years I have basically married these speakers. I've even considered painting them to improve the appearance but that would truly mean keeping them for life and just like any marriage I prefer to leave my divorce options open : ).

Callas, really like what you've done there. The panels on the stairs are very well done. Staggering them like that makes them look less like panels and more like decor.
I am with you, wife owns a Preschool but I am the main bread winner as well, I might be able to get away with a 5K upgrade but anything over that and things get a tad tense. 3 young boys to feed and all in sports, so I need to be realistic when it comes to what will serve my needs till they get out of college! LOL
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post #22827 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 05:46 PM
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I am with you, wife owns a Preschool but I am the main bread winner as well, I might be able to get away with a 5K upgrade but anything over that and things get a tad tense. 3 young boys to feed and all in sports, so I need to be realistic when it comes to what will serve my needs till they get out of college! LOL
Right on my friend.

Why can't we list equipment in our signature? How odd...
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post #22828 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 06:07 PM
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My wife and I are DINKs (double income, no kids) but we don't take purchases lightly either. Other than mortgage and auto loans, we never buy anything on credit, never. We have 3 CCs that get paid in full each month. Therefore, if I want an audio upgrade I have to pay cash for it out of savings and only if there is extra, since that fund also has to cover other expenses like vacation, home repair, healthcare, and so on, not to mention we have to be very careful about saving for retirement. I have limited discretionary funds and have to balance that between audio and cycling. I can't have two expensive hobbies at the same time, but somehow I do.

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post #22829 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 07:12 PM
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My wife and I are DINKs (double income, no kids)
Ah; I used to be part of a DINK. Now I'm a SINK
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Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #22830 of 23183 Old 07-20-2014, 07:18 PM
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Ah; I used to be part of a DINK. Now I'm a SINK
My wife has warned me that too many upgrades can lead to SINK.

Clearaudio Ovation/Magnify/Concerto v2; Herron Audio VTPH-2
Naim Audio ND5XS/NAC282/HC/NAP250-2; Dynaudio S3.4e2; REL R-328
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