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post #23281 of 23290 Old 09-30-2014, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
Hey Guys,

I may have posted this before.
You guys were talking about movie soundtracks and maybe overdriving your speakers.

This is not from a soundtrack but a live album. It is Hugh Masekela's "Hope" album. It was recorded in 1992 or 93 at the Blues Alley in Washington, DC. The track in question is the last on the album; it is called "Stimuli (the Coal Train)". It lasts about 10 minutes and is probably one of the most dynamic recordings I've ever heard.
I start it out at about 68-70dB's and it goes to 102dB. This happens about three times during the course of the song. There is some drumming that is mainly toms and bass drums that keep building, and building, and building, until you think that they can't get any louder, and they build again.

I have overdriven both C1's and C2's with this track. Pop!
But I have never been able to "pop" my Special 25's. That 8" Evidence driver is so robust.
And no it is not clipping (I have 400W mono-blocks).

Borderdog
I've heard this track on both digital and analog, it super pops on analog even more than on digital
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post #23282 of 23290 Old 09-30-2014, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post
One of my cars I owned years ago had Dynaudio Drivers and JL Audio Amps with the CleanSweep device which I thought was pretty cool back in the day. But got sick of pimping out company cars and having to reinstall stuff over and over if I traded my car in.
When I referenced some car audio amplifiers, I wasn't referring to the experience in the car, nor want to get into an argument about car vs. home audio. I was just expressing my displeasure with a lot of home audio equipment (including stand alone amplifiers), and that I have heard better designed and sounding equipment built for a car.

By the way, anything JL Audio makes for amplification doesn't compare even remotely to the products I am referring to.

We'll seen how the SR7007 performs and go from there. There is always the option of using a 12v power supply and bringing some high end mobile audio into the home.
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post #23283 of 23290 Old 09-30-2014, 09:52 PM
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Sqoverall: Now remember this was years ago when I was talking about JL Audio Amps, I know their is much better stuff back then and now, but at the time it is what I could afford! Not trying to argue about anything as in this business as I stated comes down to personal preference and many other variables and that goes hand in hand with car or home audio. On another note; some of the Brax stuff I heard with Dynaudio were pretty sweet and the ARC signature stuff was nice, just wish we would have had some of the betters stuff back in the day! Just curious what your comparing when it comes to home Audio Amps? Some of the good music only Amps or Int. Amps would be on par with some of the best Car Amps, depends on what your using as a comparison.

Last edited by Garman; 09-30-2014 at 10:09 PM.
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post #23284 of 23290 Old Yesterday, 07:09 AM
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Hi people.

Recently I posted about the option to buy a Dynaudio Sub500. I wasn't sure whether I should pull the trigger on that one, or go the DIY-route, since I already had an elaborate (but complicated) design. For the asking price it seemed like a good deal, but I was able to pay even less. Given the state it's in (about three years old, seemingly very few working hours and looking practically new) it was an absolute steal. Needless to say, I bought it. And I love it! Together with my Special 25's, I can safely say that I have only once heard a setup that sounded more complete and coherent. I could probably make it even better with a better amp, but that's another story.

I do, however, have a few questions regarding placement and setup parameters of the Sub500. Especially to those who use it with Special 25's or similar monitors.
I currently have it positioned directly to the right and slightly behind my right speaker, due to room constraints. The driver faces inward, not towards me. The x-over on the sub 500 was set to full range, phase at 90 degrees. The crossover in my AVR was set to cross to the sub at 40Hz, the S25 running full range. This way, the sub will only work below 40Hz, unfortunately also heavily filtering LFE tracks. This works pretty well for most music tracks, resulting in some minor loss of perceived energy at around 40Hz with some music material. Setting up my AVR to cross over at 60Hz results in more bass-presence (no or less loss of energy around 40Hz), but also makes the bass sound somewhat sluggish or bloated. Turning the sub volume down helps somewhat, but then the extreme lows suffer from that. Even though my overall sound is great, I keep having problems getting seemless integration with a sub. My last two subs were B&W ASW610 and Adam Sub10mkII. Both had trouble integrating well.

Is this really a matter of tweaking parameters, or more a problem with placement? When crawling the floor with the Adam sub in my lisening position, I got the loudest deep bass (and best overall sound) in the corner the sub is now in.

What can I do to further improve the smoothness of the ultra low end (apart from purpose-designing a room for it )?

I'd like to hear from you sub woofer users! Thanks!

James.
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post #23285 of 23290 Old Yesterday, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post
Having an eargasm right now listening to the Dark Knight OST. Who doesn't love Hans Zimmer?

[raises hand...]
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post #23286 of 23290 Old Yesterday, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
Hey Guys,

I may have posted this before.
You guys were talking about movie soundtracks and maybe overdriving your speakers.

This is not from a soundtrack but a live album. It is Hugh Masekela's "Hope" album. It was recorded in 1992 or 93 at the Blues Alley in Washington, DC. The track in question is the last on the album; it is called "Stimuli (the Coal Train)". It lasts about 10 minutes and is probably one of the most dynamic recordings I've ever heard.
I start it out at about 68-70dB's and it goes to 102dB. This happens about three times during the course of the song. There is some drumming that is mainly toms and bass drums that keep building, and building, and building, until you think that they can't get any louder, and they build again.

I have overdriven both C1's and C2's with this track. Pop!
But I have never been able to "pop" my Special 25's. That 8" Evidence driver is so robust.
And no it is not clipping (I have 400W mono-blocks).

Borderdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynero View Post
I've heard this track on both digital and analog, it super pops on analog even more than on digital
Dave Holland’s album “Prime Directive” did this on a few tracks with my Contour 1.3MKIIS… “POP POP”………with the 25s no problem.

Just to be safe and to give me more or less a full range presentation and lots of headroom I do have the 25s crossed over with a Velodyne DD12.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #23287 of 23290 Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM
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Hey guys, we have just bought a pair of Xeo 4s and currently trying to figure out where to place them in our living room. As you can see the room is quite narrow. Don't mind the black wall unit on the left, we've just removed. Frankly there isn't much we can do with a space such as ours, so we thought either to place them where the black cabinets used to be or next to the columns on each side. Any suggestion will be appreciated.
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post #23288 of 23290 Old Yesterday, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesblond View Post
Hi people.

Recently I posted about the option to buy a Dynaudio Sub500. ..............

Is this really a matter of tweaking parameters, or more a problem with placement? When crawling the floor with the Adam sub in my lisening position, I got the loudest deep bass (and best overall sound) in the corner the sub is now in.

What can I do to further improve the smoothness of the ultra low end (apart from purpose-designing a room for it [IMG]file://localhost/Users/robertburns/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/msoclip/0/clip_image002.png[/IMG])?

I'd like to hear from you sub woofer users! Thanks!

James.


Hi James

First, remember the cut off is gradual and not a brick wall approach above and below the cutoff frequency, I don’t have the 500 but have always found 80Hz just about right for the crossover point between the mains and most subs, 60HZ may be fine for true full range speakers.
With a visual display one can see even with a crossover at 80Hs the 25s still produced a fair amount of bass down to 30HZ. (see my old post below)

As your finding, bass frequencies are hard to manage and unpredictable with room nodes creating peaks and valleys, doubling and cancellations and getting a smooth interface between the sub at the crossover point with the mains takes time if not impossible without some sort of visual bass management.
Thankfully it has all become a lot easier over the last decade with the advent of home theatre and automated room correction and for those of us who are predominantly still 2 channel Velodyne’s SMS-1, which I previously used helped greatly in mating the 25s with the sub, currently I’m using a Velodyne DD12 which has basically the SMS-1 built in.
But without any visual feedback one has to depend solely by ear (not a bad thing actually) doing trial and error.
I usually start with acoustic recordings and slowly increase the volume on the sub until I feel the bass instruments are complete, then try a different phase (if available) and placement for body and extension. What we perceive as impact when listening to music, not home theatre, is actually created by proper placement of the mains and their integration with the room, get them right and it makes adding a sub that much better so that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
There are a lot of different schools of thought for adding a sub, crossover, no crossover, hi, low, corner placement, aligned with mains, etc, etc, so again trial and error, but in the end the sub should allow the mains to breath easily, increase dynamics and improve stage width and depth and of course complete the last octave of the bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post
Thought I’d post some results in equalizing the SP25s with and without the foam port plugs.
Setup is with the Velodyne SMS-1; these results are with the S25s cut off of at 80Hz 6dB/octave slope of the SMS-1 and a Velodyne SPL1500R sub.
The 25s are about 40" from the front wall.
Interestingly, even with the 80Hz cutoff the 25s still generate a fair bit of low frequency energy with the ports unplugged starting around 35Hz and rising around to 40Hz then dropping down to 80Hz and up again.
With the ports plugged we have a more traditional decline of base energy from the mains and actually may be preferred to allow better integration with the sub resulting in less over hang and booming of base frequencies.
Now these results are specific to my listening room and will be quite different for other users.
Which set up I prefer has yet to be determined as both setups, with or without the plugs interestingly produce similar graphic results when combined with the sub. There should be more base reinforcement without the plugs but this is not obvious from the graphs when the sub is engaged, whether or not this produces better or muddier base or how the rest of the audio spectrum is affected will have to be determined by trial and error.
This is my first time in using the plugs so I’ll leave them in place for a while and get back with my listening impressions.
Please note that the equalization in each photo affects the Velodyne SPL1500R sub only and not the 25S.
Also what I have not shown are the 25s playing full range.


without plugs 80Hz filter, sub muted


with plugs 80Hz 6dB filter, sub muted


80Hz 6dB with plugs and sub engaged


80Hz 6dB without plugs and sub engaged

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #23289 of 23290 Old Yesterday, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesblond View Post
Hi people.

Recently I posted about the option to buy a Dynaudio Sub500. I wasn't sure whether I should pull the trigger on that one, or go the DIY-route, since I already had an elaborate (but complicated) design. For the asking price it seemed like a good deal, but I was able to pay even less. Given the state it's in (about three years old, seemingly very few working hours and looking practically new) it was an absolute steal. Needless to say, I bought it. And I love it! Together with my Special 25's, I can safely say that I have only once heard a setup that sounded more complete and coherent. I could probably make it even better with a better amp, but that's another story.

I do, however, have a few questions regarding placement and setup parameters of the Sub500. Especially to those who use it with Special 25's or similar monitors.
I currently have it positioned directly to the right and slightly behind my right speaker, due to room constraints. The driver faces inward, not towards me. The x-over on the sub 500 was set to full range, phase at 90 degrees. The crossover in my AVR was set to cross to the sub at 40Hz, the S25 running full range. This way, the sub will only work below 40Hz, unfortunately also heavily filtering LFE tracks. This works pretty well for most music tracks, resulting in some minor loss of perceived energy at around 40Hz with some music material. Setting up my AVR to cross over at 60Hz results in more bass-presence (no or less loss of energy around 40Hz), but also makes the bass sound somewhat sluggish or bloated. Turning the sub volume down helps somewhat, but then the extreme lows suffer from that. Even though my overall sound is great, I keep having problems getting seemless integration with a sub. My last two subs were B&W ASW610 and Adam Sub10mkII. Both had trouble integrating well.

Is this really a matter of tweaking parameters, or more a problem with placement? When crawling the floor with the Adam sub in my lisening position, I got the loudest deep bass (and best overall sound) in the corner the sub is now in.

What can I do to further improve the smoothness of the ultra low end (apart from purpose-designing a room for it )?

I'd like to hear from you sub woofer users! Thanks!

James.
Local shop here just received a trade in of a Sub500 for you that is in mint condition. Add another one!
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post #23290 of 23290 Old Today, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesblond View Post
Hi people.

Recently I posted about the option to buy a Dynaudio Sub500. I wasn't sure whether I should pull the trigger on that one, or go the DIY-route, since I already had an elaborate (but complicated) design. For the asking price it seemed like a good deal, but I was able to pay even less. Given the state it's in (about three years old, seemingly very few working hours and looking practically new) it was an absolute steal. Needless to say, I bought it. And I love it! Together with my Special 25's, I can safely say that I have only once heard a setup that sounded more complete and coherent. I could probably make it even better with a better amp, but that's another story.

I do, however, have a few questions regarding placement and setup parameters of the Sub500. Especially to those who use it with Special 25's or similar monitors.
I currently have it positioned directly to the right and slightly behind my right speaker, due to room constraints. The driver faces inward, not towards me. The x-over on the sub 500 was set to full range, phase at 90 degrees. The crossover in my AVR was set to cross to the sub at 40Hz, the S25 running full range. This way, the sub will only work below 40Hz, unfortunately also heavily filtering LFE tracks. This works pretty well for most music tracks, resulting in some minor loss of perceived energy at around 40Hz with some music material. Setting up my AVR to cross over at 60Hz results in more bass-presence (no or less loss of energy around 40Hz), but also makes the bass sound somewhat sluggish or bloated. Turning the sub volume down helps somewhat, but then the extreme lows suffer from that. Even though my overall sound is great, I keep having problems getting seemless integration with a sub. My last two subs were B&W ASW610 and Adam Sub10mkII. Both had trouble integrating well.

Is this really a matter of tweaking parameters, or more a problem with placement? When crawling the floor with the Adam sub in my lisening position, I got the loudest deep bass (and best overall sound) in the corner the sub is now in.

What can I do to further improve the smoothness of the ultra low end (apart from purpose-designing a room for it )?

I'd like to hear from you sub woofer users! Thanks!

James.
The biggest problem is your room. Bass Traps will help immensely.
Also, are you sure your phase is set up correctly?
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