Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 784 - AVS Forum
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post #23491 of 23516 Old Yesterday, 07:52 PM
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It's funny reading the past few pages. Can anyone remember the Focus XDs? Say what? Probably the exact opposite effect they were hoping for when they made these simultaneous announcements...

Anyone want to bet that the Class D amps in the new XD models...come from China? (Any yet add 50% to the cost!)

The future of Dynaudio indeed.
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Current HiFi: Dynaudio Focus 260 | Meridian Direct DAC | NAIM XS 2 (2013)
Past HiFi: Dynaudio Excite X16 | Dynaudio Focus 160 | Harman Kardon HK3490
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post #23492 of 23516 Old Yesterday, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post
It's funny reading the past few pages. Can anyone remember the Focus XDs? Say what? Probably the exact opposite effect they were hoping for when they made these simultaneous announcements...

Anyone want to bet that the Class D amps in the new XD models...come from China? (Any yet add 50% to the cost!)

The future of Dynaudio indeed.
I really hope that they didn't go this route... I guess I'm one of the few who remains optimistic about the hopefully great speaker that the XDs could be.

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post #23493 of 23516 Old Today, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post
It's funny reading the past few pages. Can anyone remember the Focus XDs? Say what? Probably the exact opposite effect they were hoping for when they made these simultaneous announcements...

Anyone want to bet that the Class D amps in the new XD models...come from China? (Any yet add 50% to the cost!)

The future of Dynaudio indeed.
Well per Mick (Dynlunatic) they don't use class 'D' amps. Here is his response
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What does Dynaudio know about amps, dsp, etc. quite possibly the last couple decades or so with our pro products has something to do with it? We have had a tremendous amount of engineering dedicated to DSP and amplified speakers over the last 20 plus years. The Focus XD's are utilizing not a class "D" amplifier which is analog but rather the digital version of the PWM amplifiers using the Pure Path chip set, the technology amplifies the output of the digital signal and uses DSP in the signal path to control any phasing issues, this is the reason why there is no D to A conversion. The amp is presenting a virtual analog sinewave to the drivers. The Focus XD uses the same amp technology that the Xeo does just more of it with 150 watts per driver, the same wireless capability using the Xeo Hub however the direct digital input on the amp gives you 24/192 capability, the analog input on the amp is actually converted to digital inside the amplifier.
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post #23494 of 23516 Old Today, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
Well per Mick (Dynlunatic) they don't use class 'D' amps. Here is his response
PWM looks to be Class "D".

http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-1071.pdf
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post #23495 of 23516 Old Today, 05:37 AM
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Hmmm sure does.
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post #23496 of 23516 Old Today, 05:51 AM
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Like I said cheap quality, high profits. Done!
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post #23497 of 23516 Old Today, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post
Like I said cheap quality, high profits. Done!
Did they move production to China yet or is it just having a Chinese as a majority owner? I know my gut doesn't like this but I'm all in favor of giving it a chance. I mean Apple products are made in China and nobody complains about shoddy quality. Or any products out of the Foxconn factory.
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post #23498 of 23516 Old Today, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
Did they move production to China yet or is it just having a Chinese as a majority owner? I know my gut doesn't like this but I'm all in favor of giving it a chance. I mean Apple products are made in China and nobody complains about shoddy quality. Or any products out of the Foxconn factory.
Agree, apple holds China to a standard and monitor them closely. But we are also comparing a $500 phone that people trade in after a year. The other problems go much deeper then that, China is poisoning us. They hate the US look what they have done with children's toys with lead and dog food killing our animals. This country and others are going to find out the hard way when no one will know how to manufacture then the **** will really hit the fan. Sorry for the rant and going off topic! Just seen it way to many times.
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post #23499 of 23516 Old Today, 06:59 AM
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Agree, apple holds China to a standard and monitor them closely. But we are also comparing a $500 phone that people trade in after a year. .
I know some folks that trade in their speakers that often too LMAO. You know who I mean.
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post #23500 of 23516 Old Today, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
Well per Mick (Dynlunatic) they don't use class 'D' amps. Here is his response
This just proves that Mick is a robot and knows nothing about amplifier topology. An amplifier class refers to the power supply, not the preamp section. He stated NOTHING about the power supply and simply repeated his marketing material of the preamp section.

Give you less, charge you more, and nail the marketing. It's only the beginning.
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post #23501 of 23516 Old Today, 07:43 AM
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Give you less, charge you more, and nail the marketing. It's only the beginning.
Starting to sound like Bose!
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post #23502 of 23516 Old Today, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Riasat Raian View Post
hey there,

(newbie) i was looking for some cable advice for Focus 160. am i at the right place?
Hi Riasat

First off ….welcome to the forum and if you've got a pair of Dyns your in the right place.

I wouldn’t get too hung up about which cable, reasonably priced and good quality would be Canare 4S11 or 4S12 Star Quad Speaker Cable which you can buy in bulk or pre-finished, check ebay.
The type of connector is usually the hardest to decide on,….spades, banana plugs or just bare wrap, usually comes down to personal preference, I use all three.
Rule of thumb though, more than with high impedance interconnects is keeping the length for speaker cables, which is a low impedance connection, as short as possible.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario

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post #23503 of 23516 Old Today, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sqoverall View Post
This just proves that Mick is a robot and knows nothing about amplifier topology. An amplifier class refers to the power supply, not the preamp section. He stated NOTHING about the power supply and simply repeated his marketing material of the preamp section.
That's such utter Bull$hit. The class refers to how the amplification is done whether its the amp or pre-amp. You don't understand amps. Tell me can a linear P/S be used in a class A - AB or D amp. Can a switching regulator P/S be used in the same amps? Of course they can. Educate yourself
http://electronicdesign.com/analog/u...rating-classes

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post #23504 of 23516 Old Today, 09:13 AM
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My wife won't be crazy about new floorstanders in the living room either, that's why I need to buy them before she gets back from vacation next Tuesday. She'll eventually get over it once I tell her I only paid $300 for them.

I felt the midrange addition in the 340 made a big difference and helped balance out the noticeably deeper bottom end they had over the 260. If I were to go with the 260, I'd couple them with my sub. Do you run a sub with yours?
My room is 12.5x25 with a slopped roof from 12'-24' open to a large stairwell and the 9x9 entryway in front of the stairwell. I do not use a sub with my 260s. I use a 60/90 wpc naim XS which plays really loud in my partially acoustically treated room. My speakers are 30" off the wall and I sit 10' back.

The 340s are a very good product, they do offer up a little more mid-range and bass but I really feel that the 260s are the sweet spot. They create a soundstage and image like their little brother the 160s but with improved bass response and a touch of extra detail. The size of th 260 is the exact same as the 160 in width and depth, so the 260s really behave a lot like a monitor in many way. The 340s were very good but didn't disappear the same way 160s and 260s did. The 340s just had a little bit more presence in the room. I'm a little bit of a bass head and for $1k I'd probably go for the 340s but I'm very happy with the 260s.

Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210C, DM 2/6, Hsu VTF2 MK4, Oppo BDP-103,
Naim Nait XS-2, Jolida FX Tube DAC, Integra DTR-40.2, 55" Panasonic Plasma
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
That's such utter Bull$hit. The class refers to how the amplification is done whether its the amp or pre-amp. You don't understand amps. Tell me can a linear P/S be used in a class A - AB or D amp. Can a switching regulator P/S be used in the same amps? Of course they can. Educate yourself
http://electronicdesign.com/analog/u...rating-classes
You are right. I don't understand amps. I only own about $40k worth of car audio amplifiers at the moment, and sell over $100k+ worth a year.

The class of an amp refers to the power supply and how it operates. A class D amp has a switching power supply which switches of transistors when they are not in use. This causes switching noise in the signal which then needs to be filtered out. This filtering is what causes the sound of class D amps to be mediocre at best.

I will stand by initial comment that Mick clearly doesn't know crap about amplifier topology.....and let's add you to that mix as well.
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post #23506 of 23516 Old Today, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sqoverall View Post
You are right. I don't understand amps. I only own about $40k worth of car audio amplifiers at the moment, and sell over $100k+ worth a year.

The class of an amp refers to the power supply and how it operates. A class D amp has a switching power supply which switches of transistors when they are not in use. This causes switching noise in the signal which then needs to be filtered out. This filtering is what causes the sound of class D amps to be mediocre at best.

I will stand by initial comment that Mick clearly doesn't know crap about amplifier topology.....and let's add you to that mix as well.
Car amps Oh are they the bomb. Much better than home audio. You sound like a salesman not someone who works repairing electronics like myself for the last 40 years. BTW there are plenty of home audio amps the utilize switching regulator power supplies in class A and AB amps.
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post #23507 of 23516 Old Today, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
Car amps Oh are they the bomb. Much better than home audio. You sound like a salesman not someone who works repairing electronics like myself for the last 40 years. BTW there are plenty of home audio amps the utilize switching regulator power supplies in class A and AB amps.
No matter the environment (car or home), they all use the same topology; A, AB, D, GH. It's all about the power supply.

You must be a pretty dumb repair guy if you don't even know something as simple as to why an amplifier is relegated to a certain class. You might want to read up on bias and how it is used. Class A and AB fets are never all the way off. In Class D they are. Hence, the reason for the power and efficiency increase.
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Wow, these conversations almost make me want to buy different speakers just to visit another thread on this forum! I can't say I'm happy with whom the company was sold to, but I'll wait and see what happens before I jump ship. If it goes well, great, if it goes the way I fear... Well there's always Totem Metals or Dali Rubicons!

Dynaudio Focus 260s, Focus 210C, DM 2/6, Hsu VTF2 MK4, Oppo BDP-103,
Naim Nait XS-2, Jolida FX Tube DAC, Integra DTR-40.2, 55" Panasonic Plasma
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post #23509 of 23516 Old Today, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sqoverall View Post
No matter the environment (car or home), they all use the same topology; A, AB, D, GH. It's all about the power supply.

You must be a pretty dumb repair guy if you don't even know something as simple as to why an amplifier is relegated to a certain class. You might want to read up on bias and how it is used. Class A and AB fets are never all the way off. In Class D they are. Hence, the reason for the power and efficiency increase.
You must be a pretty dumb guy for dropping 60K into a car stereo with all the road noise and all. Are you the guy that drives by my house where it sounds like every door - trunk lid and hood are vibrating so bad it drowns out the bass?? Class of an amplifier is not determined by the power supply but in the way it operates. You have to understand the power supplies and amplifiers are 2 different animals.

That said I will admit that if you want high efficiency switching is the way to go be it the power supply or amplifier or both. Class D was crap 15 years ago but has also come a long way since then.
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
Class of an amplifier is not determined by the power supply but in the way it operates. You have to understand the power supplies and amplifiers are 2 different animals.

That said I will admit that if you want high efficiency switching is the way to go be it the power supply or amplifier or both. Class D was crap 15 years ago but has also come a long way since then.
Thanks for reiterating exactly what I stated initially. So you wanted to argue and then just agree in the end.

A preamp section does not switch and has nothing to do with the class designation. Go be an idiot somewhere else, or read a book and then come back.

Do you and Mick have lunch and discuss blindly how a lack of D/A conversion in the preamp somehow affects the switching in the power supply? A power supply that Mick states isn't analog class D, but in the next breathe states its digital PWM (class D). Either way. It's a switching class D design that has signal manipulation. Hilarious.

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post #23511 of 23516 Old Today, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
Did they move production to China yet or is it just having a Chinese as a majority owner? I know my gut doesn't like this but I'm all in favor of giving it a chance. I mean Apple products are made in China and nobody complains about shoddy quality. Or any products out of the Foxconn factory.
Well the big point is Apple might have some of there products made their but they are moving some of their production back into the US because of theft issues, counterfeiting etc.. Different story, and in 20 years, I have yet to have a Apple product fail. I still have the first iPad and my son is using it for school, its been dropped a dozen times in a case and still keeps on kicking. Two reasons I bought Dynaudio, the first is obvious Sound Quality and second is quality of workmanship of a product made by people who seemed to care about quality and customer service. I am sure this won't change for awhile, but now they are basically owed by the Chinese who are known for making good stuff as well, but cheap and typically cut corners to do it. If I decide to buy it will be right away, like now, because down the road the classy feeling of owning Dynaudio will fail as has a boat load of other companies that have sold out. Their is a big difference on a company having things made and China and being owned by a Chinese company, I am sure this will change. "hopefully" I mean what is ironically as by buying more products made in China we are support Communism, yes Communism. During the last 100 years far more people have been killed by their own governments than by foreign armies, and China is at the top of this list some thing like 30,000,000, USSR is second and the USA isn't even on the list but we are considering the bad guy to most in Europe and the Middle East. LOL <<<<<<< Political Rant

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post #23512 of 23516 Old Today, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
Wow, these conversations almost make me want to buy different speakers just to visit another thread on this forum! I can't say I'm happy with whom the company was sold to, but I'll wait and see what happens before I jump ship. If it goes well, great, if it goes the way I fear... Well there's always Totem Metals or Dali Rubicons!
I agree, I am at a loss because of Dynaudio selling out and still pissed off about it! But we still need to keep this place civil. lol!

The Rubicon's are nice, but I had a shoot out with 2 other people with the Rubicon 2/Mentor 2/Ikon 2 the Ikons 2 won out on all types of music and I know own a pair. Ironically we through the KEF LS50 into the mix and they beat them all, but I already own a pair of those... I have become a huge fan of Magnepan lately and since they are made in the Midwest that even puts a bigger smile on my face when I listen too them, as they are that good.

Now on the Dynaudio front, I think it will be a great time to buy now, but down the road I am not too sure, I hope Mike and his crew in Chicago stay intact as they are all very good people and have great customer service! Especially after I read why the Chinese are expecting to do with the brands.

http://hifipig.com

OctaDyn_Dude/sqoverall:

As far as the Amplification debate I haven't been a fan of Class D Amplification, but that could change in the future. Pioneer was using B&O's new Class D Amplifiers in there new receivers and they didn't sound too bad on movie soundtracks as there is a lot going on and it is very difficult to get too nit-picky on comparisons. (They sounded horrible when playing music, too me) I use to repair Amplifiers at Audiophiles years ago, and know enough to be dangerous, and I will gladly stay out of that debate.

A good Read: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun0...udandlight.htm

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post #23513 of 23516 Old Today, 12:38 PM
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Thanks for reiterating exactly what I stated initially. So you wanted to argue and then just agree in the end.

A preamp section does not switch and has nothing to do with the class designation. Go be an idiot somewhere else, or read a book and then come back.

Do you and Mick have lunch and discuss blindly how a lack of D/A conversion in the preamp somehow affects the switching in the power supply? A power supply that Mick states isn't class D, but in the next breathe states its PWM (class D). Hilarious.
You seem to think all class D amps suck. All I agreed with you is regarding efficiency not sound quality. You need to stop being a robot (Mr salesman) thinking you know efficiency vs sound quality is. BTW have you heard the Focus XD's? I haven't but I won't hate or love them until I hear them. Dynaudio has never made anything bad sounding up to now.

Now how many times do I have to flush for you to go away??
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
That's such utter Bull$hit. The class refers to how the amplification is done whether its the amp or pre-amp. You don't understand amps. Tell me can a linear P/S be used in a class A - AB or D amp. Can a switching regulator P/S be used in the same amps? Of course they can. Educate yourself
http://electronicdesign.com/analog/u...rating-classes
Now that you try to change the subject after being proven to be an idiot.....I quoted your initial comment again. It's even funnier the second time around.
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Dynaudio Focus 160 For Sale

For sale. Dynaudio Focus 160s. Gorgeous gloss white. Mint other than a few tiny marks on bottom from stands. $1875 shipped for free to CONUS. MADE IN DENMARK!!! : )













Why can't we list equipment in our signature? How odd...
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How do those compare to the C1s you recently had in your listening room?
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