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Audiophile Liquidators?

56K views 207 replies 84 participants last post by  wse 
#1 ·
Have any of you used this site with any success? There deals seem a little hard to believe. Please post if you have sucsesfuly ordered something from there site.

http://audiophileliquidator.com


Thanks


Mike
 
#52 ·
It always amuses me when the personal attacks begin -- I'm sure they're both coming from well-intentioned folk who let passion get the best of them.
fyi, if widespread was a shill, he would have given his glowing feedback without having to be prompted by me a month later.


re: my initial request -- I just wanted to know if anyone had any bad experiences with these guys. Despite the tangental diversion into the relative merits of the grey/black market -- the answer seems to be no. If they had negative feedback (especially BBB verified feedback), I wouldn't even be asking. I'm sure these guys are just trying to make a living like the rest of us -- they probably don't carry inventory, but I don't have a problem with that. I wouldn't slam them as being evil just because they're playing the system . . . . I mean, eBay is basically a grey market, and we all understand that it's "buyer beware" there too. (they may even be selling on eBay) If nothing else, they provide a good idea of a price bottom so that I can negotiate the price down with an authorized dealer. Or, at least, to gauge how much I'm being extorted. So that's something.


Regarding the reason for my initial inquiry, it specifically has to do with finding a Sonance center channel to match previous-owner installed wall speakers. It's not a complicated electronic product -- so the warranty (to me) won't mean as much. I might pay an extra 15-20% for the warranty, but not the 50% I'm looking at now. That high price is directly the result of Sonance's selling policy. It doesn't sell direct, and the only authorized online retailer is abt in Chicago, which doesn't carry them (but "may be able to special order" them). That basically eliminates any price competition and narrows down my choices to either driving 30 miles to a b&m where I can most likely expect to pay full MSRP (it's called a monopoly) for something that I'm only getting because of a someone else's decision (the prior owner-installer of my front/rear speakers) and due to my relative ignorance about matching front speakers with a center channel.


At the end of the day, I'll probably just buy an Ascend center channel from the manufacturer (he says it'll match).
fun, fun, fun
 
#53 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Widespread /forum/post/0


Call me any names you want. In my experience, loudspeakers last for years and years. Warranties are more important to me with electronics than with speakers.


All I know is, I got some amazing speakers for about $2600, including shipping.


Since we seem to be making sweeping statements, allow me one of my own. Anyone who makes sweeping, near-ad hominem attacks is a dick.

Or you couldve bought your Gallos from an authorized dealer, and probably paid the exact same price, but you would have full warranty.
 
#55 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect /forum/post/0


Or you couldve bought your Gallos from an authorized dealer, and probably paid the exact same price, but you would have full warranty.

That's a pretty easy statement to throw out after the fact. I'm not suggesting people go out and purchase gray market products but I will at least admit that gray market prices are traditionally lower for the majority of the people then authorized dealer pricing. Otherwise, there would be no gray market since they would not offer any benefit over the authorized dealer. Lower price is the only thing that keeps them in business.


Some may have built relationships with their local B&M stores where they may get deals that rival the gray market. However, I would estimate that the vast majority of people do not continually upgrade enough to build these relationships to get these benefits. In my experience, for the brands I've purchased in my area, I've rarely received much of a discount off of the retail price to compare with gray market pricing.


As I stated above I'm not promoting this model. Lower price equates to more risk and each individual has to weigh the factors. Some how I doubt it would have worked out as simply as you put it. Typically, if you even mention internet pricing you are shown the door, which is understandable based on the differences in support between the two models, but I've never had the experience where one actually wanted to match an internet price.
 
#56 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbr /forum/post/0


Me I would wonder if the stuff is hot.

I may have thought that initially but once you have learned more about how the gray market works (someone explained it earlier in this thread), it is easier for these places to just buy from an authorized dealer to sell as a gray market product then to actually deal in something stolen.
 
#58 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb /forum/post/0


As I stated above I'm not promoting this model. Lower price equates to more risk and each individual has to weigh the factors. Some how I doubt it would have worked out as simply as you put it. Typically, if you even mention internet pricing you are shown the door, which is understandable based on the differences in support between the two models, but I've never had the experience where one actually wanted to match an internet price.

I consider myself "in the know" when it comes to the internet, moreso than most traditional retail stores I suppose. I would never walk a customer, especially on a 3000/pair speaker because of a couple hundred bucks.


The Gallo 3.1s are 3000/pair, and listed on audioliquidator.com for 2295 plus 275 for shipping, making them 2570. You cant order them without shipping, so the price is 2570, NOT 2295.


Thats a mere 15% discount off the 3000 retail price. Most retailers will match that price as long as you dont listen to them in their showroom, which is a SERVICE that audioliquidator does not and can not provide.
 
#59 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect /forum/post/0


I consider myself "in the know" when it comes to the internet, moreso than most traditional retail stores I suppose. I would never walk a customer, especially on a 3000/pair speaker because of a couple hundred bucks.


The Gallo 3.1s are 3000/pair, and listed on audioliquidator.com for 2295 plus 275 for shipping, making them 2570. You cant order them without shipping, so the price is 2570, NOT 2295.


Thats a mere 15% discount off the 3000 retail price. Most retailers will match that price as long as you dont listen to them in their showroom, which is a SERVICE that audioliquidator does not and can not provide.

So if you listen to them, you pay more? That's lots of service: putting in a cd and hitting play. What's that worth?
 
#60 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect /forum/post/0


I consider myself "in the know" when it comes to the internet, moreso than most traditional retail stores I suppose. I would never walk a customer, especially on a 3000/pair speaker because of a couple hundred bucks.


The Gallo 3.1s are 3000/pair, and listed on audioliquidator.com for 2295 plus 275 for shipping, making them 2570. You cant order them without shipping, so the price is 2570, NOT 2295.


Thats a mere 15% discount off the 3000 retail price. Most retailers will match that price as long as you dont listen to them in their showroom, which is a SERVICE that audioliquidator does not and can not provide.

Don't forget to add in another 6-8% for sales tax (you don't generally pay for internet sales) -- But I agree, before buying from an unauthorized site, I would always strongly recommend haggling with an authorized vendor -- especially a local/small business store where you're dealing with someone who cares (ie, the owner). If he wants your business, he'll come down a bit. Especially if he wants repeat business and especially if there's something else he might carry that you might need -- where he might have more price flexibility. But without that lower internet price in your back pocket, you have no leverage and without leverage, you've got nothing.
 
#61 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect /forum/post/0


I consider myself "in the know" when it comes to the internet, moreso than most traditional retail stores I suppose. I would never walk a customer, especially on a 3000/pair speaker because of a couple hundred bucks.


The Gallo 3.1s are 3000/pair, and listed on audioliquidator.com for 2295 plus 275 for shipping, making them 2570. You cant order them without shipping, so the price is 2570, NOT 2295.


Thats a mere 15% discount off the 3000 retail price. Most retailers will match that price as long as you dont listen to them in their showroom, which is a SERVICE that audioliquidator does not and can not provide.

When the Denon 2900 DVD player came out I found an online deal from an authroized dealer for $100 off retail, no sales tax and free shipping, but I wanted to try and get it from a local dealer. So I went to my local Tweeter and literally said "I just want 10 minutes of your time to right this up and sell it to me, no audition, just a quick sale. All I ask is can you meet the price I have 1/2 way ($50) off." He said no and I went my merry way and ordered it online.


I've checked several Denon dealers in my area and have yet to find one that will budge off the list. Maybe my area is different then most.
 
#62 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb /forum/post/0


When the Denon 2900 DVD player came out I found an online deal from an authroized dealer for $100 off retail, no sales tax and free shipping, but I wanted to try and get it from a local dealer. So I went to my local Tweeter and literally said "I just want 10 minutes of your time to right this up and sell it to me, no audition, just a quick sale. All I ask is can you meet the price I have 1/2 way ($50) off." He said no and I went my merry way and ordered it online.


I've checked several Denon dealers in my area and have yet to find one that will budge off the list. Maybe my area is different then most.

You've got it all wrong. You need to spend several thousand dollars at your local dealer and become his "friend" (that's what you call buying a friendship). Then he'll give you the $100 off. You missed the first half of the equation in trying to get that discount. The Tweeter guy was not your "friend".


What's the old saw: "With friends like these..."
 
#65 ·

Quote:
So if you listen to them, you pay more? That's lots of service: putting in a cd and hitting play. What's that worth?

The value of auditioning , often comparatively, BEFORE you buy? The value of personal selection rather than having markete(e)rs pick for you? PRICELESS, in my opinion.


I still fully believe that manufacturers who are now protecting their lines are doing so because the dealers that demoed stuff that people would hear and pick but then find on line cheaper would go out of business because they were wasting time and loosing business. The manufacturers of better gear are anxious to go head-to-head with their competition and need better stores to showcase their better goods.

I hear constantly people who complain that after they had auditioned a particular model against some others, they HAD to buy from a dealer because they couldn't find it on-line...implying that they see the need to choose for themselves but will allow the dealer that provided that service to go under because they, the customer, are concerned with the immediate and only loyal to the dollar. That's fine but better dealers aren't targeting the "price above all" consumer, they'll leave those people to BB, Walmart and the internet.

However, even most of the price first hobbyist is smart enough to audition, comparitively, before he buys.

Dealers with real showrooms now are simply responding to that by less frequently selling products that are sold in widespread ,unrestricted distribution.


Quote:
You've got it all wrong. You need to spend several thousand dollars at your local dealer and become his "friend" (that's what you call buying a friendship). Then he'll give you the $100 off. You missed the first half of the equation in trying to get that discount. The Tweeter guy was not your "friend".


What's the old saw: "With friends like these..."

I , and most of the guys that I know at Tweeter would have taken that deal regardless of who you are...but neither of us carry denon due to it's widspread distrobution. It is a commodity brand now, nothing against it, it just doesn't do me any good to show it, demo it, or talk about it.


If your a person that wouldn't mind if there wasn't a single place left where you could touch, see, and/or listen to these products before you buy them, then the internet is a good place to shop, but I suspect many who buy there still do a lot of B&M legwork and like to press the buttons, lift the unit, and hear the sound quality first.
 
#66 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Sm /forum/post/0


If your a person that wouldn't mind if there wasn't a single place left where you could touch, see, and/or listen to these products before you buy them, then the internet is a good place to shop

That's me. Although I loved going to the NY Show where I could listen (not comparatively) to lots of different stuff and speak with the designers/owners of the companies. The worst demos there in my opinion were the ones run by dealers: the "sell" was constant.
 
#67 ·

Quote:
The worst demos there in my opinion were the ones run by dealers: the "sell" was constant.

While most shows are marred by lousy set-ups all around, with a few manufacturers renting normal hotel suites far enough in advance to set them up right, The manufacturers are the ones who "sell" constant, and the kool-aid was force fed...the reps and dealers who have several brands have to talk about the strengths of MANY brands without denegrating the others they have.

Watch the Sumiko guys talk about Sonus Faber AND Vienna Acoustics at the same. time.
 
#69 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno /forum/post/0


That's me. Although I loved going to the NY Show where I could listen (not comparatively) to lots of different stuff and speak with the designers/owners of the companies. The worst demos there in my opinion were the ones run by dealers: the "sell" was constant.

Selling is a part of life. It applies to all professions, all businesses, all industries, and all people all over the entire planet, and has been since the beginning of civilization. But apparently its not ok for AV companies to try and sell anything?


The entire point of the Stereophile show is for the common person to have a CES-type venue. Do you think Stereophile puts those on for free just because they like their readers? The average booth at CES costs something insane like 40-60000, and Im sure the Stereophile show is similar in price. Companies need a "return on investment".


Keep in mind some people have audio as their hobby, but it is first and foremost a business and an industry.
 
#70 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect /forum/post/0


Selling is a part of life. It applies to all professions, all businesses, all industries, and all people all over the entire planet, and has been since the beginning of civilization. But apparently its not ok for AV companies to try and sell anything?


The entire point of the Stereophile show is for the common person to have a CES-type venue. Do you think Stereophile puts those on for free just because they like their readers? The average booth at CES costs something insane like 40-60000, and Im sure the Stereophile show is similar in price. Companies need a "return on investment".


Keep in mind some people have audio as their hobby, but it is first and foremost a business and an industry.

The Stereophile show, unlike CES, is geared mainly to the public. They have a dealer day on Friday. What was interesting is that there were manufacturers (who certainly can and should sell to dealers) and dealers who were representing different brands. The manufacturers ran very low key demos. It was a great venue to listen and learn and meet the manufacturers.


There were some dealers that also ran demos, and frankly I found them less low key, less fun, and certainly less informative. It was a controlled "selling" production as opposed to a "learning" production. Based on my time there, I now own two pairs of Totem speakers (Forests and Mani-2s). I bought them used on Audiogon and Vince and Nico Bruzzese coudn't have been nicer in talking during the show and providing information after the show. They even did research to see if the two speakers I was considering were purchased from authorized dealers.
 
#71 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect /forum/post/0


It costs around 3,000 a month minimum, to maintain a real showroom to "put in a cd and hit play". That is worth something to alot of people.

It absolutely is. But I can't tell you how many times I went to "purchase" gear from a high end dealer, only to find that they had to order. The majority of "high-end" dealers I've frequented tend to be order takers, which is why I prefer show environments where you can see and touch lots of gear and then find your best deal. Not practical in most cases, I realize.
 
#72 ·
Well said! Most young reps and some old ones as well,are annoying and difficult to deal with because they don't understand the difference between educating to the point that "need" overtakes "want" in the mind of a prospect; and then maybe we can make a deal. To me, it's a combination of ignorance and impatience. And to quote Dennis "It's just my opinion, I could be wrong". David



tonygeno said:
The Stereophile show, unlike CES, is geared mainly to the

public. They have a dealer day on Friday. What was interesting is that there were manufacturers (who certainly can and should sell to dealers) and dealers who were representing different brands. The manufacturers ran very low key demos. It was a great venue to listen and learn and meet the manufacturers.


There were some dealers that also ran demos, and frankly I found them less low key, less fun, and certainly less informative. It was a controlled "selling" production as opposed to a "learning" production.
 
#73 ·
Three points, two on topic, one more general:


1) The lack of any BBB complaints may have more to do with this company changing its name and address so frequently rather than with quality service - a lot of shady Crooklyn camera and electronics scam shops do this, operating under multiple names and discontinuing one name only to start up again under a different name after a few months.


2) A fair number of these less-than-honest mail order companies do employ shill tactics to write bogus positive reviews. I even read of one guy who got ripped off by one of these scam artists, wrote a 1/10 review slamming the company on reselleratings.com, only to find out the con artists were smart enough to see if he used the same password on their website that he used on resellerratings.com (he unfortunately did), so they logged on as him and edited the review, turning it into a bogus positive one, changing the rating to 10/10. Dumb shills post virtually the same reviews each time and you sometimes can tell they are posting multiple shill reviews by spotting unusual spelling or grammar mistakes they make in every review. If I was a scammer posting shill reviews, I'd make the review mostly, but not entirely, extremely positive and return to the site occasionally to try to make it seem as if I was genuine, making much the same kind of posts that Widespread made here. Maybe he's genuine, maybe he's a shill. I'm not entirely convinced by his protests of innocence. I once got conned by a dishonest eBay seller whose positive ratings turned out to be about half his own shill ratings, using several multiple shill accounts to bid up his auctions and win auctions that would otherwise have gone for too low of a price. In an auction that ended right after mine, I caught him confusing his buyer and seller accounts in one of his feedback comments, proving conclusively the was using shill accounts. So, I'm rather biased against shills.


3) I value local stores for the ability to demo equipment in person and sometimes, when I'm lucky, getting helpful information from a truly knowledgeable salesperson. I'm well aware of the extra overhead that a B&M store has to pay compared to a pure internet seller and I'm willing to pay extra for the benefit of having a local dealer. However, I'm not willing to pay absurd amounts of extra money for that benefit and I will try to bargain with the local store to arrive at some price halfway between MSRP and an internet discount price, meaning that I save money and he still makes some profit he otherwise would have lost to an internet competitor. I've had local store owners refuse to bargain, though, angrily accusing me of trying to deny them the right to make a living. My response is that when there's a difference of hundreds of dollars between the local guy's price and the lowest internet price, giving the local owner his full MSRP that he's demanding is giving him a gift of hundreds of dollars, money I otherwise could have spent on my family, invested in my daughter's college fund, etc.... Several times I've said I can either give you the money or spend it on Christmas presents for my family - why do you deserve a present from me more than my wife and daughter? I've never received an adequate response to that question, just fuming from a pissed-off business owner who would rather be a self-proclaimed martyr than someone interested in keeping customers (and expanding his customer base through positive word-of-mouth referrals) in a competitive marketplace.
 
#74 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lousygolfer /forum/post/0


Three points, two on topic, one more general:

1) The lack of any BBB complaints may have more to do with this company changing its name and address so frequently rather than with quality service

2) A fair number of these less-than-honest mail order companies do employ shill tactics to write bogus positive reviews.

3) I value local stores for the ability to demo equipment in person and sometimes, when I'm lucky, getting helpful information from a truly knowledgeable salesperson. However, I'm not willing to pay absurd amounts of extra money for that benefit and I will try to bargain with the local store to arrive at some price halfway between MSRP and an internet discount price, meaning that I save money and he still makes some profit he otherwise would have lost to an internet competitor. I've had local store owners refuse to bargain, though, angrily accusing me of trying to deny them the right to make a living.

1) Although each BBB branch does this differently, they track the name changes -- if they miss one, a simple google search will generally find these -- and you can do separate BBB searches . . . and if you're a good guy, let BBB know so that they can update their files. I do this, and find BBB the absolute final word on vendor reputation.


2) My approach with vendor site reviews (even Amazon/Buy.com) is to focus on the negative reviews. I pretty much ignore the positive reviews (those are often shills who've figured out the game to getting high ratings). 50 guys giving glowing reviews don't mean nothing if there are 5 guys who felt ripped off -- first, my luck I'd be one of the 5 and second, those guys with negative experiences are generally more detailed or specific than the "great experience, would do business with them again" dudes.


3) Pretty much my experience. A "good" salesman will always tell you that lowering his price by the amount you want will mean he'd be selling below his cost. (I worked with, and admired, these guys in a different industry for 20 years). The key is have a good idea of what his incremental cost for the item are and having a fallback vendor you will actually go to when he tries to move your price up -- and to never negotiate with anyone who can't pull the trigger (you're just giving it away) -- find the manager/owner.


And, by all means, once you find a vendor you like, visit them often -- even if you don't buy every time. As mentioned by earlier posters, you can't underestimate the value of a relationship. And it doesn't have to be with a small performance retailer -- even BB/CC have guys who care. In my case, I support the local BB because they're in my town and I like to support the local tax base -- as long as you don't go there for an education (the guy who pulls the trigger isn't the one with the knowledge base).
 
#75 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno /forum/post/0


It absolutely is. But I can't tell you how many times I went to "purchase" gear from a high end dealer, only to find that they had to order. The majority of "high-end" dealers I've frequented tend to be order takers, which is why I prefer show environments where you can see and touch lots of gear and then find your best deal. Not practical in most cases, I realize.

Its your last statement why many dealers cant floor alot of high end stuff. "see and touch lots of gear and then find your best deal".
 
#76 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect /forum/post/0


Its your last statement why many dealers cant floor alot of high end stuff. "see and touch lots of gear and then find your best deal".

Well for me the alternative is to travel 50 miles to the high-end dealer, see and touch, and pull out the dough: oh, I'll have to order that. 50 miles home and then 50 miles back a week or two later, and then 50 miles home. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather take my chances on Audiogon, have UPS deliver it to my door and sell if it's not what I was looking for.


Part of paying the full boat for me is instant gratification: if the dealer can't provide that, his "services" are useless to me. Others may feel differently.
 
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