Sell Magnepan 3.6R's and buy NHT Xd? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 179 Old 06-20-2006, 04:23 PM
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"If I claimed I had a threesome with Charleze Theron and Angelina Jolie, would I have to posts pics to prove it"

If you did,I'm your new student.Teach me o master Yoda :)

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post #92 of 179 Old 06-20-2006, 04:25 PM
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"Xds can handle large scale stuff at volumes that will have the Magnepans going on an interstate tour"

Thanks for the laugh.I'll take quality over quantity any day.

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post #93 of 179 Old 06-20-2006, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzin
"Xds can handle large scale stuff at volumes that will have the Magnepans going on an interstate tour"

Thanks for the laugh.I'll take quality over quantity any day.
Me too, 'M'.....people can hack on Maggies all they want. They are AWESOME speakers. If someone doesn't prefer them, then so be it....don't BUY them. But Maggies have a very strong, loyal following and deservedly so. I happened to find a better fit for me at the $4k price point than the 3.6s, but if my budget allowed for a $9-10k price piont, the 20.1s would be at the top of my list.

If you give the Maggies enough juice and some Mye stands, they are more dynamic than people give them credit for. And they can give you a greater sense of being involved with HT than just about any other speaker I've ever heard. I've not heard the NHTs, so I can't comment on them. But I've got nothing negative to say about the Maggies....the MMGs I had were, and still are, the best speaker I've ever heard under $1k.
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post #94 of 179 Old 06-20-2006, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ
If I claimed I had a threesome with Charleze Theron and Angelina Jolie, would I have to posts pics to prove it? :p
LMAO!! Only of them together; you could leave yourself out of it. :D

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post #95 of 179 Old 06-20-2006, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim916
The Xd reproduces very closely what is fed into it but this does not translate into "accuracy" for some listeners.

However, I believe that the Xd is very competitive when compared to other conventional speakers in its price range.
I agree that the Xd seems to be competitive. However when you say it reproduces what it is fed and then say that isn't accuracy, you lose me. There is only one definition of accuracy; it doesn't change from person to person. Preference does, but not accuracy.



Zissou, first of all, I do NOT fail to understand what it takes to *accurately* measure panel speakers. I am well aware of Linkwitz’s methods, but thanks for the reminder. I have actually heard the Orion through a friend and am impressed with what Linkwitz has done, but it has nothing to do with how the Magnepans were created.

Zissou, you came on this forum and immediately trashed the NHT’s. You claim to own them or that you *have* owned them but have yet to prove so. Then you stated that the Maggies are better in every way, which is definitely *not* backed up by the measurements of the Maggies. If by *better* you mean harder to set up, less efficient/more power hungry, won’t play as loud, and far more expensive for a 5.1 system, then you would be correct.

As far as Maggies being transparent, maybe your definition of transparent is different that everyone else’s and different than the one found in the *dictionary*, The speaker measurements don’t back up your transparency statement. Perhaps they sound transparent to *you*

How do you know the Maggies weren’t measured in an anechoic chamber by Stereophile? Even if they weren’t, the measurements were horribly inaccurate (not inaccurately performed). Also, I bet if I do a bit of searching I could find some anechoic measurements of them somewhere. Either way, it’s an inaccurate speaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou
Gee we have something in common then. Unfortunately, you being a dealer, one would hope you had other speakers as well. Then you wouldn't have to whore NHT all over the internet.
It’s comments like these that show me your are just upset with John over something that happened elsewhere than this forum (perhaps another forum?). I think you are just here to argue with John because you dislike him.

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Originally Posted by Zissou
I. At least I don't have an "imaginary identity"
Again, this just shows you dislike John and further proves my point. It also shows how childish you are. What kind of a low blow is that? Sure, he may have lied about who he was, but there are * many* other people on this forum doing the same thing. It is in the past and it is *already* common knowledge, so why bring it up again? That was just dirty!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDole
good grief! Yes, Alimentall is a dealer and can be, in some people's opinion, pushy or defensive about the xd. But you guys are being ridiculous! I get it - you don't like John. How does this help the OP?
You are right. Unfortunately, that is what this thread has turned into ( a lets bash John thread).

mrlittlejeans, do yourself a favor and don’t listen to ANYTHING anyone has said on this forum, unless it went something like this:

All things audio are subjective so the best advice I can give you is to go out and listen to the NHT’s yourself. Only *you* can decide if they are better than the Maggies. Also, don’t limit your brands to just Magnepan and NHT. Check out other manufacturers that have speakers in your price range. Good luck to you mrlittlejeans!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall
Perhaps, but even so, when you flatten the response, you still end up with a close to 10dB peak at 47Hz and a wide, deep trough of a good -5dB or so in the upper midrange/lower treble, just like every other Maggie I've ever heard! And the response is still rather erratic. Note that Linkwitz's dipole speakers use a SEAS Excel magnesium driver, just as Xd does. But then you know that, eh Mac? Sorry, I mean Zissou.

Ding Ding, we have a winner. He is sounding more hypocritical every post isn’t he John? John, I have to ask, what did you do to upset him so much? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou
John you are remarkably adept at showing a complete lack of understanding of all things acoustic. You really, really need to get off the NHT obsession. I realize it's all you carry but try to broaden your horizons and then you won't need to reregister under another pseudonym.
I see you're being slaughtered again on Asylum. Doesn't it ever get tiresome for you? :D
Can you prove that at all? Because from what I have read you have that backwards.

In closing, I would like to mention that John and I hardly every agree or get along. So no, I am not infatuated with him or an offline friend of his. If you know me on this forum, you will know this. However, he is correct on all accounts. He started this *debate* when Zissou said Magnepans are better than NHT on all accounts. Zissou, the measurements clearly refute your theories. Also, I want to get one thing straight; I am not bashing Magnepan. The speakers are very inaccurate, but you don’t need me to tell you that. Lots of people prefer the Magnepan sound and there is nothing wrong with that. If they bring musical joy to you, that’s great! What I am saying is that this one specific speaker is not an accurate speaker. Again, if that doesn’t bother you then I urge you to listen to it and decide if you like it (your opinion is the only one that matters). The OP has decided to keep his Maggies and did pages ago, so lets stop all this BS and get back to something more important. John, Zissou, enough already. ;)

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post #96 of 179 Old 06-20-2006, 06:41 PM
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I don't want to get any more into the pissing match than I already have, but I actually find the Maggies to be very transparent....that's one of the qualities I love most about them. I don't really know how you guys are defining the term either, but to ME transparency means the ability to allow the recording to be heard as it is recorded. In other words, the more transparent the speaker is, the less it colors or imparts its own characteristics onto the recording. I find the typical box/dynamic speaker to have a much larger problem with transparency than Maggies. That was my main issue with the Von Schweikerts when I bought them....I love their contemporary look (particularly the VR-4jrs), but they were not very transparent at all to my ears. With Maggies (and my DeVores), it's garbage in, garbage out. There is a great deal of transparency present; bad recordings sound bad, and good recordings sound good.

I tend to associate transparency with the greater sense of realism that can be obtained by a very good speaker. Again, that's a big reason why loved Magges. Even with something like live sporting events (the superbowl comes to mind), you felt as though you were on the field and involved in every tackle.
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post #97 of 179 Old 06-20-2006, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa
I don't want to get any more into the pissing match than I already have, but I actually find the Maggies to be very transparent....that's one of the qualities I love most about them. I don't really know how you guys are defining the term either, but to ME transparency means the ability to allow the recording to be heard as it is recorded. In other words, the more transparent the speaker is, the less it colors or imparts its own characteristics onto the recording. I find the typical box/dynamic speaker to have a much larger problem with transparency than Maggies. That was my main issue with the Von Schweikerts when I bought them....I love their contemporary look (particularly the VR-4jrs), but they were not very transparent at all to my ears. With Maggies (and my DeVores), it's garbage in, garbage out. There is a great deal of transparency present; bad recordings sound bad, and good recordings sound good.

I tend to associate transparency with the greater sense of realism that can be obtained by a very good speaker. Again, that's a big reason why loved Magges. Even with something like live sporting events (the superbowl comes to mind), you felt as though you were on the field and involved in every tackle.
Nuance hasn't a clue. If he thinks they are not transparent, cohesive and dynamic then he either hasn't heard them or he's playing with the truth. Obviously what I posted about measuring panel speakers completely eluded him. Anyone surprised?
Oh and the bad reviews, of which he said there were none, were also totally ignored. He's like a John sock puppet. :p :p :p
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post #98 of 179 Old 06-20-2006, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou
Nuance hasn't a clue. If he thinks they are not transparent, cohesive and dynamic then he either hasn't heard them or he's playing with the truth. Obviously what I posted about measuring panel speakers completely eluded him. Anyone surprised?
Oh and the bad reviews, of which he said there were none, were also totally ignored. He's like a John sock puppet. :p :p :p
Now you personally attack me? Wow, and just because my hearing may be different than yours. Gee, I am glad you frequent this forum... :rolleyes:

FYI, I have heard them, and they sounded poor. It could have been the room, electronics, the source, or even incorrect setup, but they were NOT transparent at all. They were dynamic sure, but transparency trumps dynamics for me, and so does *accuracy* However, they were demoed at a dealer whom had many other speakers available, and none of them were set up incorrectly or underpowered and the like. You just can't get over the fact that I didn't like the speakers huh? And you say Alimental pushes name brands on people... :eek:

These bad reviews that you listed, I read through them; they were meaningless. In fact, one of them was written by Kal whom I have already said is NOT one of the people that writes false reviews. In every review (other than Kals) the author tries to cover the flaws by praising the equipment in other areas. And FYI, we were talking about SPEAKERS! No one ever said anything about there not being any bad reviews for *electronics*. Are you even paying attention? I even quoted an example of one of them which proves my point, to which you did NOT respond. You are obviously here to try to start a fight, but it won't work. I am above this and above you and your ways. Please do us all a favor and go back to your other forum.

Summa, I agree with you on the transparency definition. And I am glad the Mags were transparent in your view. Like I said above, it may have been the room, source or electronics, but they were not transparent to my ears. They sounded recessed and thin. I don't doubt that you like them, I just happen not to. Since then I have not heard any other Magnepan speakers. I don't dount that they make some truly cool stuff.

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post #99 of 179 Old 06-20-2006, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance
Summa, I agree with you on the transparency definition. And I am glad the Mags were transparent in your view. Like I said above, it may have been the room, source or electronics, but they were not transparent to my ears. They sounded recessed and thin. I don't doubt that you like them, I just happen not to. Since then I have not heard any other Magnepan speakers. I don't dount that they make some truly cool stuff.
Nothing wrong with that, man....we all have different tastes in our gear. I'm usually pretty skeptcal about Maggie demos, cause as has been stated above, they can be VERY picky about set-up and associated gear. It also could be that you heard a pair that was not broken-in, cause I remember thinking my MMGs were pretty thin (and very bright) when I first hooked them up. I don't know where I stand on the break-in issue with regard to most speakers, but with Maggies I'm truly a believer. It took me a while living with them until I really fell in love. You're probably right about the electronics too, though, cause if you have a real ear for audio then you'll not be happy with them until there is a synergistc match.

Hell, I'm just glad we're not arguing about Bose, lol.....
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post #100 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa
Hell, I'm just glad we're not arguing about Bose, lol.....
:D

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post #101 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall
Ya wanna fight about it?!? ;)
Let the battle begin :D

Seriously, the wavelaunch height and dipole radiation are what attracts most people to the Maggies. The NHT will have better tonality and frequency extension so it's apples vs. oranges.

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post #102 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig
Let the battle begin :D

Seriously, the wavelaunch height and dipole radiation are what attracts most people to the Maggies. The NHT will have better tonality and frequency extension so it's apples vs. oranges.

Again not true. The Maggie ribbon is flat to 40K.
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post #103 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou
Again not true. The Maggie ribbon is flat to 40K.
I should've specified bass extension; however the top octave should be fine but typical of a 1" dome. I tend to prefer ribbons myself ;)

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post #104 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou
Again not true. The Maggie ribbon is flat to 40K.
You have a mighty strange definition of "flat"! What exactly about *any* part of their range is "flat"? Being able to reproduce a note and having a flat response are entirely different things.

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post #105 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Craig
I should've specified bass extension; however the top octave should be fine but typical of a 1" dome. I tend to prefer ribbons myself ;)
Personally, I like the part of the sound I *can* hear to be right first, I really don't care if my dog is enjoying the sound :)

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post #106 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall
You have a mighty strange definition of "flat"! What exactly about *any* part of their range is "flat"? Being able to reproduce a note and having a flat response are entirely different things.
Again the measuring of panel speakers has totally eluded you. You have a lot of reading and edumacating of yourself to do. What color is the sky in whatever world you live in?
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post #107 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig
I should've specified bass extension; however the top octave should be fine but typical of a 1" dome. I tend to prefer ribbons myself ;)
Undoubtedly. ;)
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post #108 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Zissou
Again the measuring of panel speakers has totally eluded you. You have a lot of reading and edumacating of yourself to do. What color is the sky in whatever world you live in?
No, it hasn't. I understand how you do it and what it's supposed to be like. Even with compensation, the speaker is far from "flat". I have a 14,000 ft mountain staring me in the face and no one was stupid enough to call it "Plano, NM".

John
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post #109 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Alimentall
No, it hasn't. I understand how you do it and what it's supposed to be like. Even with compensation, the speaker is far from "flat". I have a 14,000 ft mountain staring me in the face and no one was stupid enough to call it "Plano, NM".

No you haven't a clue. It will sum flat at a typical listening position. The greatest acoustic minds in the world have trouble properly measuring them and it's the same with first order crossover speakers but again you simply do not have a grasp of this concept. You are so blinded by one brand of speaker it truly is verging on being sad and something you need treatment for. You most certainly are not doing the company any favors at all and this comes from someone who along with owning the xD had the 3.3 in a second system for a year or so.
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post #110 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 01:54 PM
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I heard the Maggies several years ago and they made the ride cymbal on keb Mo's "henry" sounded like a 20" cymbal.
On my Mirage M3's it sounds half again as large.
The cymbal had this incredible spread. Like real cymbals do.

But I am considering the NHT Four because maggies and my M3s are just to big and the tweeter on the NHT is muuch more detailed than my 14 year old M3s are.
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post #111 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by b4z
I heard the Maggies several years ago and they made the ride cymbal on keb Mo's "henry" sounded like a 20" cymbal.
On my Mirage M3's it sounds half again as large.
The cymbal had this incredible spread. Like real cymbals do.

But I am considering the NHT Four because maggies and my M3s are just to big and the tweeter on the NHT is muuch more detailed than my 14 year old M3s are.
Agreed. As much as I love the M series they are dark.
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post #112 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou
No you haven't a clue. It will sum flat at a typical listening position.
Again, you have a *very* forgiving definition of "flat". I'd bet you'd be lucky to get +/-10dB at the listening position!
Quote:

The greatest acoustic minds in the world have trouble properly measuring them and it's the same with first order crossover speakers but again you simply do not have a grasp of this concept.
Maybe that would be your first clue :D
Quote:

You are so blinded by one brand of speaker it truly is verging on being sad and something you need treatment for.
No, I'm blinded by actual performance and real engineering.
Quote:

You most certainly are not doing the company any favors at all and this comes from someone who along with owning the xD had the 3.3 in a second system for a year or so.
Oh, and you are :rolleyes: I just think people should listen for themselves and b) be aware of people like yourself. BTW, it's Xd, not xD. Not the type of mistake a person might make after spending $6K on a pair of speakers they hate. Mac.

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post #113 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Alimentall
Again, you have a *very* forgiving definition of "flat". I'd bet you'd be lucky to get +/-10dB at the listening position!

Maybe that would be your first clue :D

No, I'm blinded by actual performance and real engineering.

Oh, and you are :rolleyes: I just think people should listen for themselves and b) be aware of people like yourself. BTW, it's Xd, not xD. Not the type of mistake a person might make after spending $6K on a pair of speakers they hate. Mac.
No idea who Mac is, you're delusional, and the plus or minus 10dB shows just how ignorant you are. No wonder you're mocked and hated at the Asylum.
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post #114 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Zissou
No idea who Mac is, you're delusional, and the plus or minus 10dB shows just how ignorant you are. No wonder you're mocked and hated at the Asylum.
If you spend any time at all at AA watching me be "mocked and hated", you know *exactly* who Mac is, which makes your commentary that much more amusing "Zissou". If the Maggies flattened at 6dB/octave, then they'd have a nice, flat down tilting slope. They don't, ergo, they're not flat no matter *how* you measure them or correct for them. The fact that you even *think* they could sum to flat is fantastically hilarious :p

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Originally Posted by Alimentall
If you spend any time at all at AA watching me be "mocked and hated", you know *exactly* who Mac is, which makes your commentary that much more amusing "Zissou". If the Maggies flattened at 6dB/octave, then they'd have a nice, flat down tilting slope. They don't, ergo, they're not flat no matter *how* you measure them or correct for them. The fact that you even *think* they could sum to flat is fantastically hilarious :p

Nice understanding of first order crossovers Sybil. :p :p :p
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Not talking about 1st order crossovers. That's an entirely different problem from measuring dipoles and factoring in dipole cancellation due to increasing omnidirectionality. Not that *you* would understand that. Mac.

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post #117 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 03:20 PM
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Not talking about 1st order crossovers. That's an entirely different problem from measuring dipoles and factoring in dipole cancellation due to increasing omnidirectionality. Not that *you* would understand that. Mac.
Again Sybil you complately miss the point. Par for the course. Do some reading, get some knowledge and then you'll be worth talking to. Until then you're merely an NHT sock puppet with multiple identities.
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post #118 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 03:32 PM
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Which explains how much you understand.....how? You insult because you can't argue your point and don't know about what you're speaking. Repeating Linkwitz doesn't do you any good if you don't understand the concepts.

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post #119 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 03:36 PM
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Which explains how much you understand.....how? You insult because you can't argue your point and don't know about what you're speaking. Repeating Linkwitz doesn't do you any good if you don't understand the concepts.

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Posted by Rod M (W) on April 02, 2006 at 19:43:29

In Reply to: well, maybe if you stopped with the insults and attacks.........(nt) posted by John Ashman on April 2, 2006 at 08:31:54:

I hear a lot of Inmate complaining that you jump into every thread regarding NHT and generally aren't invited.

And generally, you don't have much good to say about B&W and Magnepan either. I appreciate your experience and option; however, as a dealer, you need to keep your comments in line with our gudielines. Correct factual errors about things you may sell. But don't offer unsolicitated glowing praise about things you sell, nor should you trash those that you don't sell. It comes off as self serving.

Thanks.

The only speaker line he sells is NHT. I wonder why? Ooo that's right they are the only speaker worthy of selling at his prestigious store, LMFAO yea right. If I owned a speaker company I would never let this guy represent my product. Dave, he is professing his ignorance to the world just sit back & laugh at him like so many of us do on this forum.

May I suggest something?

If you stop trying to talk up the NHT Xd as the greatest thing since sliced bread, especially using numbers and specifications where understanding their importance, relevance and applicability are clearly not your forte, maybe we can just mention that the Xd system is an interesting design, with many strenth but also weaknesses which make it more/less suited to certain application and equally more/less unsuitable for others.

Then one could discuss the actual context and experience and add some genuine value for readers. Also, it would spare me the task to correct for your regular mis-statements of supposed specifications and measurements, a very irksome task if I may say so.
> whereas something like Xd may do 100dB uncompressed,

It may not, actually. I will not venture a precise guess on thermal compression in the Xds, however, I would be severely surprised if it would produce 100db/3m with less than 3db compression.

> I think crossovers are partly to mostly responsible for this, as
> is driver resonance/spectral decay that steep crossovers help
> avoid.

We can debate this endlessly, however, let me simply state that this is not the case. For an illustration simply try a pair of Tannoy Kingdom's (passive crossover speaker).

Note, I am not saying the Xd system is bad, in fact for the general format it is quite good, among the better stuff I have heard. But it is far from qualifying as "Monitor grade" for recording quality control, because of it's inherent limitations.

I appreciate that you are enthusiastic about them (I rember discussing systems like this with Ken Kantor in the mid 90's on the "Bass list" (E-mail discussion list) and I am quite happy to see such systems make more inroads, however I feel you are pushing the Xd's as something they are not and cannot be, which is doing them a dis-service.

I heard the Xd setup very recently. It did not do badly for what it was but was extremely challenged with large scale classical, quite compressed. Also, resolution was well below what I'm used to. DSP is no substitute for decent (size) drivers, conincidental design and high MovingMass/BL ratios.

> The point of Xd, I suppose, is to reproduce the left and right
> channels of a stereo recording with the least amount of coloration
> possible.

Then it fails, as it is unable to manage the large scale dynamics necessary with compression and distortion.


the key point that Thorsten was making was that the Xd is incapable of bombastic dynamics that this large monitors are capable are producing, compared to those monitors or any the previous examples I pointed out, it will sound compressed.


I'm german actually. Past that, I stated an obvservation, namely that the Xd system (double Sub) was subject to notable levels of compression when playing classical music at realistic (say row 5 in the Royan Festival Hall) using a virtually uncomressed recording and in a largish (for Europe) living room sized room. I also remarked that this level of compression (and the attendant shift in imaging and general congestion resulting) disqualified the Xd system for me as Monitor Speaker without qualification, on the simply principle that a monitor is supposed to tell the truth about the recording and the Xd system failed to do that.

In the end, I would appreciate if you made sure you actually understood the technical issues you talk about and the context of many things (such as EM's use and endorsement of the Xd system you have been throwing around as about your only argument in favour of them all this thread).

That's the the pot calling the kettle black John. News flash I don't think anyone takes you seriously on here.

John,
It's fine if you feel this way, not everyone likes B&W I have no problum with that. What you don't seem to understand is not everyone feels the way you do. I have never talked bad about your NHT speakers, I bet the XD's sound great. But you act like they are the best speaker in the world. Do you know what the best speaker in the world is? It's the one that you think is the best. As a sales person you need to learn not to bad mouth peoples stuff it will only hurt you in the long run.


I hear a lot of Inmate complaining that you jump into every thread regarding NHT and generally aren't invited.

And generally, you don't have much good to say about B&W and Magnepan either. I appreciate your experience and option; however, as a dealer, you need to keep your comments in line with our gudielines. Correct factual errors about things you may sell. But don't offer unsolicitated glowing praise about things you sell, nor should you trash those that you don't sell. It comes off as self serving.


Direct off the front page of Mr. Ashman's web site:

http://www.adnm.com/genesis.htm

"Here's an interesting update. Seems Genesis has hired a lawyer to threaten me, saying that I'm defaming and harrassing them (because I keep asking, publicly for the money they owe me). Well, if they'd prefer to spend money on lawyers and keep losing business rather than simply replacing the subwoofer or return my money, then let's just take it all the way. Freedom of speech is a wonderful, guaranteed thing. I'd rather not be in an adversarial postion with respect to Genesis, but as long as they owe me this money, it's simply where we are. And it shows the caliber of company they've become. I think I'll stay an extra day just to picket them at CES. That should be fun!"


t only obvious he has something against B&W, of course he will deny this. I like all kinds of speakers other than B&W, hell I have Maggies,Logans, some custom single driver speakers. The reason I mess with John is not that he dislikes B&W that would be stupid, it's because he give negative false information to everyone who posts about B&W. And he uses this forum to sell his NHT speakers, that I doubt he has at home. If you look at the lines he sells they are lines that are not hard to get into any store. You are right B&W picks who sells their product. Just about every hi end store would like to have B&W. B&W is a SPEAKER MANUFACTURE not a assembler like so many, so you are no paying a middle man so to speak. It's a fact that B&W speakers are used as monitors in 80 percent of all classical recordings, I bet most of the music he uses to demo his NHT's have seen B&W's somewhere down the line.

And that makes the Gallos fair game for your badmouthing, but really, there's a limit. The break-in associated with these things has been written about here on AA and elsewhere at length as well as being treated to a long paragraph in the Owner's Manual. Unless you have actually heard a pair just out of the box, and then 6-8 hours later (when they start sounding brittle and generally awful) and then 100 hours later (when they don't), all you're doing is making yourself look uninformed at best and petty at worst.

Who knows what is right? Magnepans have "air", but about 10dB too much"

Sorry I don't really know what you mean by this. The measured frequency response of Magnepan speakers doesn't support this.
http://stereophile.com/floorloudspea...03/index6.html
http://stereophile.com/floorloudspea...68/index3.html

Note especially the in-room response of the MIIIA in Martin Colloms review. Other than the midbass resonance the thing is pretty damn flat measuring...IN-ROOM! There is simply no 10db, or any db excess, in the HF from the Magnepan ribbon.

As to the air or no air. It has been my observation that if a metal tweeter has a sharp resonance just above the audio band then these tweeters are often described as "hard" sounding or lacking in "air". Another good example is the Focal titanium inverted dome. Wilson speakers that use it never have "airy" highs. However, the Be version used now by Focal, which has a much higher resonance frequency, does have rather "airy" highs. Same is true for the ceramic and diamond tweeters (no doubt going to diamond improved the B&W top end dramatically). Ribbon drivers naturally have "airy" highs because they have no HF breakup at all. A tweeter sounds airy and light when there is no distortion being generated by a large resonance. They sound hard and "airless" when there is a big resonance. That resonance simply makes distortion, John. I am sure the NHT metal dome has the same problems (its aluminum, right?).

LOL! my original observation was more correct than I thought, every post is just another excuse to flog your wares :-(, I will just let this one slide rather given you another opportunity for an infomercial. :-), you are so not subtle :-)

Mr Ashman first attacked me in these forums I tried to ignore him, then he e-mails & insults me, I asked him stop but he repeatedly e-mails me & I then warned him but he did not listen. He is a Troll & a Basher so I decided to give him a taste of his own medicine. As you all can tell from my web site I am not closed minded, I am anything but. I own & have owned many, many, vastly different speakers electronics, for some reason or another I think John feels very threatened by me. He will deny this to the end but it is the truth. He uses these forums to try to sell his NHT speakers. He claims he use to work for a company that sold B&W, he must have some chip on his sholder about B&W. I have now made my point & will move on.

Your act has gotten old, very old. So stick a sock in it, Ashman. People are getting sick and tired of hearing you kick the same dead horse. Your opinion is simply that, so stop preaching your gospel like it's a matter of indisputable fact. It's not.

NHT (NOW HEAR THIS)!!! You are as predictable as white bread. Your NHT's are an assembly company. I knew you would bring Bose into this but remember Bose is also an assembly company. Thank you for your post Mr Ashman you now have negative credibility.
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post #120 of 179 Old 06-21-2006, 03:55 PM
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I agree that the Xd seems to be competitive. However when you say it reproduces what it is fed and then say that isn't accuracy, you lose me. There is only one definition of accuracy; it doesn't change from person to person. Preference does, but not accuracy.
I think we are actually in agreement. What I was saying is that some audiophiles confuse preference with accuracy, meaning that any speaker that doesn't reproduce the music to their liking must be, according to them, inaccurate.
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