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Old 05-26-2014, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post


I actually like the looks of the Treos. It measures well, too.smile.gif

After nearly 40 years of Audio fun, I am of the opinion that measurements can obfuscate as much as they can enlighten. What does something sound like? Both the 2CE Sig II's and the Treo's sound great. The Treo's are hands down better at three times the price.

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"You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike"

 

HT: Denon 4311CI, Denon DVD-5900, M&K S-150's LCR & ss-150's SL & SR, SVS PB12+, Oppo-BDP-83, Sony Cineza LCD, Stewart StudioTek 130 92"

2 Ch: MacMini,W4S DAC2 DSDse,VPI Scout 1.1&Dynavector 10X5,Cary SLI-80&Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures II's

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Old 05-26-2014, 06:03 AM
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Bill,The discussion are speakers which are time, and phase coherent, yet you're just critical of phase coherence in a vacuum, and incorrectly defining time coherence. Or did you forget about that when you abridged my quote to best fit your point. Something you routinely do.
I addressed the issue of time align in my first post. Much is made about the importance of time align and phase align in the link you posted, but in truth most of what's there is pure marketing, in the guise of engineering data, intended to tout the supposed advantages of a specific design. To the layman, very impressive. To the acoustical engineer, not so much. As to the pronouncement Time-coherent speakers are automatically phase-coherent, that's simply not true. If you're not aware of why it's not true then I respectfully suggest that you limit your contributions to subjective opinion. I, OTOH, will continue to limit mine to the explanation of objective fact for the benefit of those who are interested.

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Old 05-26-2014, 06:42 AM
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I addressed the issue of time align in my first post. Much is made about the importance of time align and phase align in the link you posted, but in truth most of what's there is pure marketing, in the guise of engineering data, intended to tout the supposed advantages of a specific design. To the layman, very impressive. To the acoustical engineer, not so much. As to the pronouncement Time-coherent speakers are automatically phase-coherent, that's simply not true. If you're not aware of why it's not true then I respectfully suggest that you limit your contributions to subjective opinion. I, OTOH, will continue to limit mine to the explanation of objective fact for the benefit of those who are interested.

You're are still confusing physical time alignment with time coherence. I've explained this too.

 

Much is made about the importance of time align and phase align in the link you posted, but in truth most of what's there is pure marketing, in the guise of engineering data, intended to tout the supposed advantages of a specific design.

 

And much of what you're saying is wrong and or misleading, I've called it out with a reference which you're now resulting to name calling. 

 

As to the pronouncement Time-coherent speakers are automatically phase-coherent, that's simply not true. If you're not aware of why it's not true then I respectfully suggest that you limit your contributions to subjective opinion. I, OTOH, will continue to limit mine to the explanation of objective fact for the benefit of those who are interested.

 

Time coherence, and physical time alignment aren't the same beast. This article explained that, and instead of detailing where it gets it wrong, you result to name calling of my sited post. I'm sorry if you think you're too sophisticated of an acoustical engineer to see it's merit. So basically what you're saying is if I don't agree with you I need to consider my posts subjective opinion? Wow... Bill, I will continue to state my facts as referenced. You can do what you want, but please stop with the condescending high brow banter.

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Old 05-26-2014, 06:53 AM
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I have the cloth Quatro's, I personally think they are vandersteen's best looking speaker as they are very slim in design.

The color is walnut.


The only and I mean only reason I am selling is I need a NON time and phase speaker as I have a two row home theater at varying heights and with the Vandersteens design I have to compromise one row or the other.

I'm going to go to more Theater only speakers. As of right now I think I will be going to the JTR 215RT's


Not sure why your experiance with vandersteen haven't been fantastic. But I am super super anal about setup, and Vandersteens really do require a little extra love during setup to sound there best, but when you get them there... Wow. They pump out a serious large and wide sound stage and very realilistic vocals in both female and male signers. The Quatro are amazing full range speakers for medium sized home theaters, and can easily go flat to 20htz on there own. In mid to small home theaters they can even double as subwoofers for the LFE channel if you route the LFE to the mains.
Nice! The new JTR's will blow your socks off!! Are you planning on getting the single 8s also? I have 2X 212HT's mains, a 228 center and 4 Single slanted 8's with 2 PSA Triax subs. Will be going in my new HT next month or so, just an incredible set up for HT. It is cool to see more and more people moving into the JTR speakers.

I am actually interested in your surround set up as I want to replace my living room set up with a nice full range set up when I move the JTR stuff into my new room. Not sure what I am doing yet. I am thinking about the 215's, Salk HT3's or maybe something like Vandersteen. If you still have them for sale in a few months, I may give you a ring.
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Old 05-26-2014, 07:32 AM
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Nice! The new JTR's will blow your socks off!! Are you planning on getting the single 8s also? I have 2X 212HT's mains, a 228 center and 4 Single slanted 8's with 2 PSA Triax subs. Will be going in my new HT next month or so, just an incredible set up for HT. It is cool to see more and more people moving into the JTR speakers.

I am actually interested in your surround set up as I want to replace my living room set up with a nice full range set up when I move the JTR stuff into my new room. Not sure what I am doing yet. I am thinking about the 215's, Salk HT3's or maybe something like Vandersteen. If you still have them for sale in a few months, I may give you a ring.

I can not afford the slanted 8's at the moment, but would love to. I will have to keep my Vandersteen surrounds until I can afford them.

But Vandersteen's VSM1 design is similar to JTR's surrounds as they are also coaxial. So that's at least an up side. Lol.

I won't get much more then $5000 for my Quatro's and I want to buy three JTR 215's so I need to figure out how to come up with an extra $5000, lol.

Once the Quatro's sell the single 2CE Sig MKII the Vandersteen 1C's and my Kimber Kable Bifocal XL's 10' length will all be up for sale too.
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Old 05-26-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post


I can not afford the slanted 8's at the moment, but would love to. I will have to keep my Vandersteen surrounds until I can afford them.

But Vandersteen's VSM1 design is similar to JTR's surrounds as they are also coaxial. So that's at least an up side. Lol.

I won't get much more then $5000 for my Quatro's and I want to buy three JTR 215's so I need to figure out how to come up with an extra $5000, lol.

Once the Quatro's sell the single 2CE Sig MKII the Vandersteen 1C's and my Kimber Kable Bifocal XL's 10' length will all be up for sale too.

Just thinking out of the box for ya, but since you're going full blown HT, have you considered this? You could save some money. Certainly not a knock on the JTRs, I'm sure they sound fantastic. But, for me, I'm just not THAT picky when it comes to HT sound reproduction- UNLESS that same HT system doubles for my music. 

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Old 05-26-2014, 08:15 AM
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The Quatro's would put even these klipsch to shame. I want to upgrade my theater sound not degrade it. Nothing agents the klipsch system, but nothing I have heard is as effortless and clear as JTR's when playing at reference levels and above for home theater.
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post

Just thinking out of the box for ya, but since you're going full blown HT, have you considered this? You could save some money. Certainly not a knock on the JTRs, I'm sure they sound fantastic. But, for me, I'm just not THAT picky when it comes to HT sound reproduction- UNLESS that same HT system doubles for my music. 
I agree with Sowk, that would not be an upgrade. THe 215's are in a whole different league.
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I agree with Sowk, that would not be an upgrade. THe 215's are in a whole different league.

I agree that they are better too.
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Old 06-03-2014, 12:54 PM
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My Vandersteen Quatro's sold, and I now have for sale a "single" 2CE SIG MKII (center channel for behind an AT screen - Matte Black)

and Standard Black 1C's (2 speakers)


Asking $1000 for both plus shipping. (3 total speakers)

or

$600 (1C's) + shipping
$600 (2Ce Sig MKII) + shipping


Local pick up preferred.
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:52 PM
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Wow is right - this forum is slow. I too am a Vandersteen fan but have never owned them. Clearly this place is not where Vandersteen owners go sadly.

Reggie
Family Room:70" Sharp Elite/Marantz AV8801/MM8077/GoldenEar:Triton Ones (superseding Triton 2s), SuperCenter XXL center channel, and SuperSat 60surrounds/Oppo BDP-105/Directv Genie HR34-700/ HP Notebook
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Old 09-25-2015, 05:03 PM
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Wow is right - this forum is slow. I too am a Vandersteen fan but have never owned them. Clearly this place is not where Vandersteen owners go sadly.
Go here instead:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=194.0

David M.
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Old 09-25-2015, 05:04 PM
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Thanks

Reggie
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:46 PM
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Wanted to get opinions on the various model 2's versus the model 1. My thought was to buy a pair of model 1's to see how I like the sound of Vandersteens. They are very cheap on Ebay. If I like the sound I would look to take a step up to a model 2 or maybe 3. Will the model 1 give me a true indication of what the speakers can do?
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:57 PM
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I think the Model 2s are a huge step up from the 1s and a better value than the 3s. If you really want to experience the Vandersteen sound I would start with the 2 CEs.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by VonHess View Post
Wanted to get opinions on the various model 2's versus the model 1. My thought was to buy a pair of model 1's to see how I like the sound of Vandersteens. They are very cheap on Ebay. If I like the sound I would look to take a step up to a model 2 or maybe 3. Will the model 1 give me a true indication of what the speakers can do?

I have a pair of Model 1B speakers that I helped my dad pick out 30 years ago, that he gave to me years later. I still have people comment on how great they sound! If you have an opportunity to get a pair for cheap, I would highly recommend them.
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Old 11-09-2015, 03:47 PM
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I agree with David's thoughts - I'd look to start with a pair of 2CE's. Given shipping is going to be a significant portion of cost for either a 1 or 2, I'd go ahead and start with a 2 which you seem more likely to keep long-term. Exceptions would be if you can find a 1 for a great price locally and not a 2 or feel you'd keep a 1 for surround duties, but wouldn't use a 2 in such a role then I'd consider a 1.

'Course it's likely cheaper if you can find a dealer or some way to demo a pair, but that of course depends heavily on where you're located...

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Old 11-17-2015, 12:22 PM
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To add to the above

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonHess View Post
Wanted to get opinions on the various model 2's versus the model 1. My thought was to buy a pair of model 1's to see how I like the sound of Vandersteens. They are very cheap on Ebay. If I like the sound I would look to take a step up to a model 2 or maybe 3. Will the model 1 give me a true indication of what the speakers can do?
I agree with the above. I have owned both 1's and 2's and there is a large step up in sound quality if you have the electronics behind them. In a good system the 1's will sound similar to VSM's just with better imaging since they are not on the wall. The 2's have a step up in driver configuration. Less of a step is between older 2's and 2CE Sig's. Each upgrade has been noticeable but all are a big step up from 1's. If budget becomes a concern try an older model 2.
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Old 11-23-2015, 12:15 PM
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In my HT, I have the 2CE's as my FL/FR speakers. For the L/R surrounds and backs I use the 1's. For the Center Channel, I have the VCC-1. IMO, the 1's are a decent, good speaker. But, the 2CE's have a greater range and are, overall, a better speaker. I picked the 1's for surround duty since those channels (usually) aren't nearly as demanding as the main FL/FR channels. If you're tight on money, the 1's will do a good job. But, if you can afford it, I'd go with the 2CE's. Nothing to do with Vandersteen, but for the Subwoofer, I use two SVS PC12-NSD's.

Last edited by Vidop; 11-23-2015 at 12:23 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:03 AM
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My first Vandersteens were 2C's, and I loved them for 20 years. I still have them stored, waiting to use them for my son's HT system.
I currently have a pair of 3A's as my main FL/FR speakers, and 1B's as surrounds. You can't go wrong with the sound quality of any one of these models, but I would also recommend starting with a model 2. They are a step up from the 1's with a more accurate midrange and more bass.

HDTV: Sony KDL-50R550A
AVR: Denon AVR-S910W
Mains: Vandersteen 3A, Center: Vandersteen VCC-1, Surrounds: Vandersteen 1B
Sub: HSU VTF-2 MK4
Blu-ray Player: Oppo BDP-93
Microsoft Xbox One, Roku 3
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:54 PM
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Rhythm1 - Thanks for your post. I own 2ce's and have been considering upgrading to 3a's and would love to hear your take on the differences of the 3a and the 2ce. I am happy with the 2ce's but wonder if a jump to the 3a's would produce a marked improvement? Thanks for any feedback.
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Old 12-03-2015, 05:48 AM
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Taji - The 3A has a beautiful midrange, so that audible range is a noticeable improvement. The 3A also has a more powerful and extended bass response. I even used the 3A's without a subwoofer for a short time with good results.
I am comparing a 20 year old pair of 2C's with sound anchor stands to a newer pair of 3A's. The latest 2CE and 3A Signature series may share similar drivers, so the difference in the midrange may be less than what I experienced.
I found a used pair of 3A's at a price that fit my budget, and the sound improvement of the 3A's was worth it for me.
If you have the room, and the wife acceptance factor is in your favor for a pair of 4 foot speakers, I feel you can't go wrong with upgrading to the 3A's.

HDTV: Sony KDL-50R550A
AVR: Denon AVR-S910W
Mains: Vandersteen 3A, Center: Vandersteen VCC-1, Surrounds: Vandersteen 1B
Sub: HSU VTF-2 MK4
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Old 12-03-2015, 06:57 AM
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Thanks Rhythm1 for the response. Very helpful to hear. I may be looking for a pair of used 3a's.
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:50 AM
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Vandersteen and Dolby ATMOS / DTS:X

I read on Ask Richard over on the Vandersteen site that he's recommending VCC-1 at the speaker of choose for the ceiling mounted speaker.
After finally hearing the Dolby ATMOS over Christmas I've been considering adding this to my already 7.1 Vandersteen setup.
I was looking to see if anyone has looked into this or even attempted adding the overhead speakers.
I was thinking the VSM-1's would work for this as everything I've read people are recommending two ceiling mounted speakers.
I don't think this has been brought up here yet but figured this would be a great place to have the information should someone else start looking for this very subject.
Anyway let me know if anyone has information or thoughts on this.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by C17FXR View Post
I read on Ask Richard over on the Vandersteen site that he's recommending VCC-1 at the speaker of choose for the ceiling mounted speaker.
After finally hearing the Dolby ATMOS over Christmas I've been considering adding this to my already 7.1 Vandersteen setup.
I was looking to see if anyone has looked into this or even attempted adding the overhead speakers.
I was thinking the VSM-1's would work for this as everything I've read people are recommending two ceiling mounted speakers.
I don't think this has been brought up here yet but figured this would be a great place to have the information should someone else start looking for this very subject.
Anyway let me know if anyone has information or thoughts on this.
Thanks in advance.
I also have a 7.1 (7.5 actually) Vandersteen system. I talked to Richard a few months ago and he gave me the same advice. He was however less then helpful regarding mounting option. I understand the insurance liability issue which prevents him from giving explicit recommendations but it still presents a challenge.
I ordered a used VCC-1 with a scratched cabinet off of e-bay to have something to sacrifice for mounting experiments. I can put four eye bolts in to the cabinet and hang it from the ceiling but that is a very heavy weight to have over my head without a better mounting system incorporated into the cabinet. Richard will sell you one where the bottom piece of wood is replaced by a second top so that it will look good hanging but the weight thing still bothers me.
Since in-ceiling speakers are not an option for me, I am going to buy a Martin Logan Motion 8 center channel for comparison. It has a lighter weight cabinet and two bolt mounting holes in the back which makes it perfect for hanging. My past experience suggest that the timber matching with Vandersteen is pretty good so I will see if that holds true.
It is going be a month or two until I get the wiring down so I can try this. I will be curious to hear if you try this before I get to it.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:59 AM
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It is going be a month or two until I get the wiring down so I can try this. I will be curious to hear if you try this before I get to it.
It might be a couple months for me as well, I have to finish refurbishing my mother-n-laws house before I can even consider doing this.
Still got some research to do, but I do have a VCC-1 that I could use as a test bed. I already have two speakers located in the ceiling from the previous owner so I might start with those.
Funny thing is both of them just happen to be almost perfectly located to where they would need to be positioned.
Will keep posted as to how thing turn out.
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