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post #451 of 6546 Old 01-25-2007, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

AMEN!

I thought I read in a recent review that Wilson was still using the beryllium tweeter in at least one of their higher-end offerings--can't remember where I read it--TAS review of the maxx maybe?

definitely not the be tweeters in wilson audio products. focal is keeping those be tweeters for own brand utopia and electra series

WA probably is using the titanium tweeters from focal

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post #452 of 6546 Old 01-25-2007, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

I realize that purchasing speakers (or any other gear) is a complicated decision but it may help if you filtered your question a bit so people could comment on what remains of the decision for you and what has been worked out through the posts on the subject thus far--I am sure everyone wants to be helpful but people probably can't help very much with the personal/financial aspects of the decision for you.

I have such trouble with these decisions since they involve a lot of money and it feels like you can't go back afterward (and in some sense you will lose a good deal of the purchase price on audiogon or the like) but at some point the decision needs to be consolidated to a few measurable and identifiable factors so you don't get stuck--one of the hardest is being able to trust your own ears to help with the process.

You won't go wrong any way you choose, I think the overall message people are sending is if you can tell the difference in sound , looks, and value and can afford the difference go for the better stuff. Otherwise it would probably help to clarify and consolidate your questions so people can be the most helpful...


thks for your reply...

what i am looking for is basically trying to see if any gurus have heard the following speakers first hand:

716V?
726V?
816V?

have not really decided on which to get yet? like the looks of the 816V, but i dont mind saving some $$$ if 716V or 726V sounds better...

also if i get the 816V, i will have to get the 705S for my surrounds due to my budget... thoughts on that...

sorry for all the questions... there is just too much from the range of JM Lab speakers

thks
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post #453 of 6546 Old 01-25-2007, 08:10 PM
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I listened to the 716V and the 816V, side by side.
First of all, the 716V sounds great. I actualy like the finish on the cabinets better than the 816Vs. It looks like real wood and fit and finish is excellent.
With that being said, the 816Vs were fuller throughout the tonal range. They defintely had more bass, and the highs were especially smoother with these than the 716Vs.
The dealer did not have any 726Vs, but he surmised that they would sound closer to the 816Vs as far as bottom end goes. They would probably still be a little bright on the highs. For home theater, I don't think that will matter much, and to be honest, I only heard it with older recordings that were bright to begin with.
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post #454 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 04:19 AM
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So are you going to try and find some 726's or are you sold on the 816's? What electronics were you using when you listened to them?

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post #455 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 04:34 AM
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The Sound by Singer booths at the HE shows in NY were always great. If you look at what they carry, you can see that it is allot of high end gear. If I were in NY I would probably go there for equipment. But alas, I can not. I need a local dealer. But I would check them out with out hesitation if you want top end gear. I just looked at what they carry. They cary Pathos. Man that sucks . I would definitely consider Pathos after what I heard at CES. The 1027's were just incredible with their gear. But I guess that means that I still might that cd player.

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post #456 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 05:21 AM
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I guess that since the 726Vs are within a couple hundred dollars of the 816Vs, I will probably opt for the 816Vs.
Actually if I had never listened to some older recordings (it was actually some Led Zeppelin), then I probably would not have noticed the high end brightness. When I first listened to them, it was with some modern jazz and R&B recordings and they sounded so smooth on those that I was leaning towards the 716Vs. As an example of what I was hearing, on the Zepp recordings, with the 716Vs I heard more snare than head impact when the snare drum was struck and the cymbals were quite harsh. after about 15 minutes, I felt that I was approaching fatigue. With the same songs on the 816Vs, you could definitely hear more head impact as the drum was struck and the cymbals weren't as shrill and overall was much smoother. I have listened to some of my vinyl Zepp recordings and the recording is kind of bright anyway, but I do listen to a significant amount of stuff from that era.
I don't what the model numbers were, but they were hooked up to all Arcam equipment. From what I have heard, their electronics are not considered bright, which, if true, indicates that the brightness was coming from the speakers.
Both models have the same tweeter, so I'm guessing that the difference in sound come from the cabinet design and perhaps a different crossover.
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post #457 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 05:37 AM
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You are right. They do in fact have the same drivers. It looks like the cross over is the same as well. What is interesting is that the 726's weigh more then the 816's. I have also heard that Arcam is supposed to be smooth. The cabinet difference could account form some of the differences you noticed. Also notice that the lowest impedance on the 726 is much lower then that of the 816. This may be a cause for some differences as well. The 726 may need more power then the 816 to really open up and sound good.

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post #458 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 05:59 AM
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I think that the cabinet design may have a lot to do with it. The 816's have dual ports. One fires down and there is a plinth under them.
Don't get me wrong, the 716's really sound incredible. If I had not heard the 816's, and with that particular type of music, it would have been a no-brainer for me. I really didn't want to spend the extra $500 (price difference between 716 and 816), but for me, I think it will be worth it.
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post #459 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 06:15 AM
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I am sure that the 716's did sound great. And there is no doubt that cabinet design can greatly affect the over all sound. My current speakers are a testament to that. They use the same drivers that were in the 927Be's that I had, but the 1027's have much better bass response. It is better to get something that you really like now, rather then get something else and regret it latter. When you get them, make sure you post what your thoughts are.

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post #460 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 06:27 AM
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I'm actually going to listen to some Totem Sttafs this weekend.
I already auditioned the Arros and found them to be lacking in comparison to the 816's, so I want to listen to something in the Totem line that's closer to the price range of the 816's.
If you're interested, I'll post my impressions after that.
Oh, and that was a good catch on the minimum impedance of each speaker. I didn't even notice that. Would that possibly account for some tweeter brightness though?
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post #461 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 06:50 AM
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The only issue is that I can think of is that they were not getting enough power. I don't know how that would manifest itself with those speakers. A guess might be that they would be straining at levels where the 816's would not. I once heard the Mani's and was on the floor with how good they sounded. For a book shelf speaker they were insane. Yes and post your feelings after the Totems.

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post #462 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryukyu View Post

I'm actually going to listen to some Totem Sttafs this weekend.
I already auditioned the Arros and found them to be lacking in comparison to the 816's, so I want to listen to something in the Totem line that's closer to the price range of the 816's.
If you're interested, I'll post my impressions after that.
Oh, and that was a good catch on the minimum impedance of each speaker. I didn't even notice that. Would that possibly account for some tweeter brightness though?

I am assuming you are basing your listening impressions from a Tweeter store using a Denon receiver. So heres the problem. The Focals dip to about 3.5 ohms at some frequencies. The Denon receivers are high voltage NOT high current, so they cannot drive that low of an impedance. The resulting sound is dry, lacking body, and the "brightness" in the tweeter.

Please do post your impressions of the Totem comparison, though IMO Focal is a superior speaker.
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post #463 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 01:45 PM
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No. Actually I was in a small B&M store and they were being driven by an Arcam amp, pre and DVD player.
Since you're a dealer, I would love to hear your impressions of the 716 vs. 816. And like i said above, it wsan't apprent until I heard the older recordings. I'll bet when it was remastered, they compressed the hell out of it and that surely would not help. But the 816 didn't sound as "harsh" with the same recording.
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post #464 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryukyu View Post

No. Actually I was in a small B&M store and they were being driven by an Arcam amp, pre and DVD player.
Since you're a dealer, I would love to hear your impressions of the 716 vs. 816. And like i said above, it wsan't apprent until I heard the older recordings. I'll bet when it was remastered, they compressed the hell out of it and that surely would not help. But the 816 didn't sound as "harsh" with the same recording.

That surprises me because Arcam actually pairs very well with Focal. Heres the "problem". The better the speaker the more transparent it is. So great recording sound great, and bad recordings sound bad. Focals are revealing of your source so if you are listening to old recordings with the analog hiss and dynamic compression and such it makes it very hard to listen to. However, when you get a quality recording it sounds incredible. This is why so many audiophiles listen to classical music, because its recorded very well.

The 816 will not sound as harsh because the porting system and cabinet is superior and therefore results in a better top to bottom coherency. What type of gear will you be using to power your speakers?
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post #465 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 04:56 PM
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My dealer, before he shut down, wanted me to check out an arcam HT preamp. But it did not have the connection I needed. He said that it sounded great with focals. Garbage in Garbage out so they say. Is that what you are saying? I have to agree. To me the JM's are just so transparent. You can almost get any type of sound you want out of them depending on the gear you choose.

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post #466 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 05:49 PM
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Hi guys--in regard to the listening fatigue and brightness at tweeter--I was horrified when I brought my 1027's home and hooked them up to my sunfire (not really known as a bright amp, in fact moreso characterized as warm from what I have heard) initially--they were sterile and incurred some fatigue (I believe paul messenger stated as such in his TAS review). That went away completely as the break in period progressed and there has not been a hint of it since--also I have never found denon receivers to be particularly bright--in fact if anything a bit lakcking in high end sizzle but that's just my opinion...

Not an arcam expert but I did have a listen to the totem $~3k model (forest?) and was VERY impressed (same session--I was going to get the totems until my wife decided the focals were much prettier to her eye (and then we heard them!)). I found them to have a very large sweet spot, delightful open highs, reasonable bass and they disappeared relatively well and had a wide resonably accurate soundstage (via naim electronics) at my most local dealer (80 miles away!--If you;re in the New England area I can refer you to a few great dealers in tax-free NH)). I was very impressed--they sound like far more speaker than they looked like!

The focals were a *very* different sound. Comparatively, disappeared almost magically (but had a more forward presentation), had a more detailed soundstage, tighter but more profound midbass (especially around male and deeper female vocals--really came alive on the focals). However, they were more sensitive to both my position relative to them and their position relative to me, in fact almost annoyingly so--you really needed to set them up well to get the best out of them. Once you do though, the magic can really happen--I would be interested to see how other people experience the totem-focal comparison.

Other than that, I guess I am just suggesting that the fatigue and brightness experienced may have been a green pair of choruses that needed to break in. My 1027's are much more laid back, neutral, and I feel, representative of what is coming out of my electronics.
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post #467 of 6546 Old 01-26-2007, 08:48 PM
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I think that it is possible that mine were some what broken in. I am sure that they did not get a ton of playing time at that store, but they may have had some. For me, with my equipment, the highs were never a problem. What I noticed the most was how the soundstage improved and how the bass just kept on improving. I use Bryston amps. IMO they can really control these speakers very well. I agree as I said before on the setup issue. It took 2 1/2 weeks to get it right.

Now I am focusing on getting the most out of them. That means putting top quality equipment with them. I have my player. To me, it is a good match. The amp will stay in there for a bit longer. The next step is a dedicated Pre. I am sure that when I do this, I will gain a new respect for these speakers.

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post #468 of 6546 Old 01-27-2007, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Most of the speakers found at dealers dont have adequate time on them for break-in. This will result in some brightness. Focals amazingly are one of the only speakers Ive ever heard that have a magical transformation after about 200 hours. The W-cone woofers are the culprit. They need lots of play time to loosen up. But when they do the results are spectacular.

Just today after playing a full Profile setup with Arcam AV9 and JL Audio Fathom I was floored at how good they are. Thats when you know you have a good speaker when you can listen and consistently be wowed by them.

Arcam processing with Bryston or Simaudio amplification is a match made in heaven for these.
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post #469 of 6546 Old 01-27-2007, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post


The 816 will not sound as harsh because the porting system and cabinet is superior and therefore results in a better top to bottom coherency. What type of gear will you be using to power your speakers?

Well initially I will be driving them with a Yamaha CR-840 receiver. It's one of the old ones with a wood cabinet and silver face. it ouputs 65 wpc continuous.

Sometime in the next year, I will be replacing it with separates. Right now I'm looking at NAD, Rotel and Emotiva, but am open to suggestions there as well, but don't really want to spend more than a couple thousand for amp and pre.

And thanks for the input so far.
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post #470 of 6546 Old 01-27-2007, 10:36 AM
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Anyone have any opinions on this FOCAL JM.LAB SIB AND CUB 2 PACK
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post #471 of 6546 Old 01-27-2007, 12:50 PM
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I was really set on a pair of the 806v's, but I just read in another thread that the Onix Ref1's are on sale for $599
Great deal!
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post #472 of 6546 Old 01-27-2007, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryukyu View Post

Well initially I will be driving them with a Yamaha CR-840 receiver. It's one of the old ones with a wood cabinet and silver face. it ouputs 65 wpc continuous.

Sometime in the next year, I will be replacing it with separates. Right now I'm looking at NAD, Rotel and Emotiva, but am open to suggestions there as well, but don't really want to spend more than a couple thousand for amp and pre.

And thanks for the input so far.

I have have great experience with bryston amps(4b-ST and 5b-ST) with a Halo C2. As Audio pointed out, Arcam seems to be a great match. Amps from the Halo line are supposed to be very good as well. You might also try Anthem although I have never heard them. Also, just one other choice off the top of my head may be Classe'. They seem to have great gear also.

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post #473 of 6546 Old 01-28-2007, 09:00 AM
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Is there a website that shows the MSRP of the Focal speaker line?

Thanks
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post #474 of 6546 Old 01-28-2007, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthemAVM View Post

Is there a website that shows the MSRP of the Focal speaker line?

Thanks

This is a dealer in NJ. They have the complete line with pricing listed
http://www.audionexus.com/loudspeakers.shtml

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post #475 of 6546 Old 01-28-2007, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryukyu View Post

Well initially I will be driving them with a Yamaha CR-840 receiver. It's one of the old ones with a wood cabinet and silver face. it ouputs 65 wpc continuous.

Sometime in the next year, I will be replacing it with separates. Right now I'm looking at NAD, Rotel and Emotiva, but am open to suggestions there as well, but don't really want to spend more than a couple thousand for amp and pre.

And thanks for the input so far.

I'd echo what mike said--I'd try out some the parasound halo (bryston are really sweet too!) line and think about trying out the pathos integrateds and maybe even one of the new primaluna tube integrateds just to go over to the darker side for contrast...
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post #476 of 6546 Old 01-29-2007, 04:25 AM
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Pathos+JM=a little bit of heaven. It is that good. I highly recommend anybody thinking about what electronics to get to check out Pathos gear. I also heard primaluna, but not with JM. That is also great souding gear.

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post #477 of 6546 Old 01-29-2007, 08:35 AM
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Hi guy's Great thread

I have been looking at buying a new 7.1 surround system for my home theatre (still under construction) and one of my local dealers carrys the JM lab chorus speaker line I was thinking of something like this:

Chorus 836 V R/L
CC 800 V CC
SR 800 V SR
806 V Rear
SW 800 V

run on a Cary CINEMA 7 amp or a CIMEMA 2 and 5

What do you guys think?
is this enough and clean enough power for the 800's?
or is this overkill?

I'm only looking at the Cary amp because thats what I heard them on and they sounded good to me but I'm no audiophile. I would probably go with bryston on your guys recomendation but he dosen't carry that line and this is kind of a package deal.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

JC
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post #478 of 6546 Old 01-29-2007, 09:17 AM
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Masta, that looks like a great setup. That 7ch amp looks like a good amp. I have never heard Cary, but I know they are well received. You need to go with what you like. If it sounded good to you, then go for it. The bryston could also be a good match. I use Bryston amps with my speakers. But If you could swing it, I would get the Cinema 2 and 5 combo. Just to be on the safe side with regards to power. The impedance looks to drop low at some places with those speakers. Better safe then sorry. You don't want to have them struggle. I think that would be a great setup.

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post #479 of 6546 Old 01-29-2007, 10:25 AM
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Quote:


Masta, that looks like a great setup. That 7ch amp looks like a good amp. I have never heard Cary, but I know they are well received. You need to go with what you like. If it sounded good to you, then go for it. The bryston could also be a good match. I use Bryston amps with my speakers. But If you could swing it, I would get the Cinema 2 and 5 combo. Just to be on the safe side with regards to power. The impedance looks to drop low at some places with those speakers. Better safe then sorry. You don't want to have them struggle. I think that would be a great setup.

Thanks for the input.

I was thinking the same thing on the Cinema 2 and 5 combo. Looks like I'm going to have to start pinching pennys again.

JC
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post #480 of 6546 Old 01-29-2007, 10:36 AM
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I am pinching right now myself so don't feel bad

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