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post #631 of 6592 Old 02-17-2007, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

Focal wouldnt engineer every speaker in the line from the ground up, only to sacrifice performance with a tweeter grill.

Yes they are there to protect the tweeter. I dont believe theres a difference with and without. We have the Electra in the showroom and the tweeter grill is magnetic and easily removable. I didnt hear anything.

Was just asking since it seems the same as the MA that was recommended to be removed.
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post #632 of 6592 Old 02-17-2007, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget_101 View Post

MikeDuke,
I see you had a Krell showcase processor - Do you know anything about the
showcase amp? as a possible amp for me?

I never heard it but I do remember a review of it. They said that it was a very good amp. It was able to handle just about anything they through at it. It only cried uncle a little bit on LOTR FOTR at really loud levels. It should be fine. Parasound could be another choices as well. If you want to go that route, just give a budget and I will give some recommendations for you. I was told that by my guy at Focal that they design the speakers so there is virtually no difference in SQ in regards to the speaker covers being on or off.

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post #633 of 6592 Old 02-17-2007, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I never heard it but I do remember a review of it. They said that it was a very good amp. It was able to handle just about anything they through at it. It only cried uncle a little bit on LOTR FOTR at really loud levels. It should be fine. Parasound could be another choices as well. If you want to go that route, just give a budget and I will give some recommendations for you. I was told that by my guy at Focal that they design the speakers so there is virtually no difference in SQ in regards to the speaker covers being on or off.

I been reading up on the sunfire TGA-7200 7x200 amp. Good price - very
sophiscated with this Tracking Downconverter technology and

"Two output options for the main left and right channels: current source for a warmer, more open tube sound or voltage source for tightest response. Use both in bi-wire configurations for the best of both worlds - warm, spacious highs; and tight, punchy lows! " bi-wire them for both effects? Flexablity, would be nice.
Especially, if I have to overcome some acousical defects in the room, or just that
it sounds better to me.

Is it better to use the RCA jacks (unbalance) or the XLR connectors (balance)?


Need to research some more. Any thoughts? anyone!

Thanks
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post #634 of 6592 Old 02-17-2007, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget_101 View Post

I been reading up on the sunfire TGA-7200 7x200 amp. Good price - very
sophiscated with this Tracking Downconverter technology and

"Two output options for the main left and right channels: current source for a warmer, more open tube sound or voltage source for tightest response. Use both in bi-wire configurations for the best of both worlds - warm, spacious highs; and tight, punchy lows! " bi-wire them for both effects? Flexablity, would be nice.
Especially, if I have to overcome some acousical defects in the room, or just that
it sounds better to me.

Is it better to use the RCA jacks (unbalance) or the XLR connectors (balance)?


Need to research some more. Any thoughts? anyone!

Thanks

I have heard about sunfire. They are supposed to be a great amps. Your speakers would love the power from that amp. I highly recommend that you research that one. I have also heard of people using the current and voltage sources. It is interesting and should make for a neat comparison. I have had positive experiences using balanced cables. But some people say that it makes little difference. You may have to try it your self and see what works the best in your system.

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post #635 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 03:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCollins View Post

Was just asking since it seems the same as the MA that was recommended to be removed.


Its a good question, because one could reason the anything obstructing the tweeters path would degrade the performance, but realistically it doesnt affect performance.
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post #636 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little_donkey View Post

then i go better with Monitor Audio if i want a denon receiver

Focal is not as tolerant as Monitor Audio of amplification. Or you could get something other than Denon?
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post #637 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget_101 View Post

I been reading up on the sunfire TGA-7200 7x200 amp. Good price - very
sophiscated with this Tracking Downconverter technology and

"Two output options for the main left and right channels: current source for a warmer, more open tube sound or voltage source for tightest response. Use both in bi-wire configurations for the best of both worlds - warm, spacious highs; and tight, punchy lows! " bi-wire them for both effects? Flexablity, would be nice.
Especially, if I have to overcome some acousical defects in the room, or just that
it sounds better to me.

Is it better to use the RCA jacks (unbalance) or the XLR connectors (balance)?


Need to research some more. Any thoughts? anyone!

Thanks

I have a sunfire cinemagrand 400X5 (almost exactly the same amp internally as the new tga series) hooked up to my focal 1027's--the current source definitely gives a different sound--comparatively rolled off in the high end with "warmer" mids and less taught bass.

The voltage source yields tighter, more tuneful and potent bass, more stable imaging, and crisper highs. I prefer this option with my setup.

You can, and I have tried bi-wiring using the current for the mids and highs and the voltage for bass (with my polk rti 150's, as the 1027's are not bi-wirable) and that yielded interesting results--my basic problem with that in my setup is that I didn't like the relatively rolled off highs compared to the voltage source setup. I still go back and forth sometimes and compare.

In any case, the flexibility IS nice but not as helpful as I had anticipated--you should definitely take a listen. I would say that you are likely to get a sound that you like form at least one, if not both output taps--vampyro also snagged a sunfire so hopefully he can give you his opinion too.

I really like my setup and I do a great deal of 2-ch listening with my sunfire -1027 setup--initially I found it to be a bit bright but with break in that all disappeared and it sounds great now. I think in retrospect some of that was i was listening to some bright recordings and hoping that the system would correct for that (hwich is not reasonable obviously). I did add a tube buffer and that expanded the soundstage a bit.

If you have a chance to get a sunfire I would endorse using it with your focal setup. The new series is less aesthetically pleasing than the cinemagrand series but they are essentially the same on the inside--if you do get it (or something else) please post a review!
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post #638 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little_donkey View Post

then i go better with Monitor Audio if i want a denon receiver

Will you be using these mostly for HT or music? The denon will do OK with HT, but when it comes to music, it leaves much to be desired IMO
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post #639 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by KRiS1 View Post

Will you be using these mostly for HT or music? The denon will do OK with HT, but when it comes to music, it leaves much to be desired IMO

Easy now. The Denon is not bad for music. After taking a break from the Denon sound for a few years, I crept back - and realized what I was missing when it comes to music.
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post #640 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by wje View Post

Easy now. The Denon is not bad for music. After taking a break from the Denon sound for a few years, I crept back - and realized what I was missing when it comes to music.

agreed--I don't think the denon receivers are BAD for music (I owned one that has been hand-me-downed to my father, where it now powers a bose system )--in fact far better than some of the other receiver brands but if I were gonna go with a receiver I would probably go with rotel, adcom, cambridge, or especially arcam--unfortunately, like in much of the rest of high end audio, the best audio receivers aren't technologically up to the latest surround formats (last I checked anyway). I actually thing denon and harman kardon are a relatively good mix of the two-latest technology and reasonably good amps.

With that said, if it were me, I would go with an arcam receiver probably if I were gonna go that route (or maybe rotel?) uhhggg... you can always get a dvdo scaler to use as a video switcher anyway and use the 7.1 in for audio, right

As for he mix of denon and focal--the profile series sounded ok when I listened but the cobalt series made me want to vomit when I head it through a denon receiver. Seems like a different pairing may work better.
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post #641 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

agreed--I don't think the denon receivers are BAD for music (I owned one that has been hand-me-downed to my father, where it now powers a bose system )--in fact far better than some of the other receiver brands but if I were gonna go with a receiver I would probably go with rotel, adcom, cambridge, or especially arcam--unfortunately, like in much of the rest of high end audio, the best audio receivers aren't technologically up to the latest surround formats (last I checked anyway). I actually thing denon and harman kardon are a relatively good mix of the two-latest technology and reasonably good amps.

I agree and disagree. I agree that the mass market receivers have more "features" with many people equate with technology, but in reality its little more than a shopping list to drive people to buy. Ive done this stuff for way too long, and Denon has moved from a quality specialty product to a whored out Circuit City brand.

Their Denon AVR4802R was an awesome receiver at 2K retail with a massive torroidal transformer and big filter capacitors. What do you get now for 2K? Crappy amplifier with a bunch of features that really dont do anything.

I propose that a Cambridge or Arcam is more technologically advanced because of the performance it offers at a reasonable price. To me connecting an iPod to a receiver is not technology. HDMI "switching" is all you might need which all specialty brands cover now.

I still like Denon DVD players, but I think their receivers (which are their biggest market) are garbage.
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post #642 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

As for he mix of denon and focal--the profile series sounded ok when I listened but the cobalt series made me want to vomit when I head it through a denon receiver. Seems like a different pairing may work better.

That about sums it up for me.
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post #643 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 05:41 PM
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Interesting to read about the Focal's pickiness with amplification. I auditioned the Proflie and Chorus lines yesterday, and the Chorus had more muddiness and less bass response. However, the Chorus were in the not-top-end room (best however in its room). I told the salesman I was going to schedule an audition so that they can put the two lines side by side using their better Krell electronics. However, I want to blow my available money on speakers, not amplification- this purchase is going to be one hell of a balancing act.

As a side note, I hated the Polks they had, jbl's were transparent but with bright/inaccurate highs, and I really really enjoyed the Martin Logans, which didn't happen with my first experience with them. Wish me luck!

 

 

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post #644 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 08:40 PM
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Here are a couple of quick shots I took of the 806v with my new camera. Not good shots I know
LL
LL
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post #645 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 09:45 PM
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I am considering the package below for my home cinema and I am going to power them with this amp.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pioneer-VSX-.../dp/B000F5BHWA

The speakers I am looking at are

Sib XXL Floorstanding Speaker x 2 (left & right fronts)
Sib XL Speakers x 3 (Centre, left & right surrounds)
Cub2 Subwoofer


Could anyone make any comments on if they are a good choice/bad choice or whether I should look elsewhere?
I heard the XL's and the smaller sib satellites at my local tweeter store (Sound Advice) and I was impressed.
Thanks for any advice.
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post #646 of 6592 Old 02-18-2007, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat View Post

Interesting to read about the Focal's pickiness with amplification. I auditioned the Proflie and Chorus lines yesterday, and the Chorus had more muddiness and less bass response. However, the Chorus were in the not-top-end room (best however in its room). I told the salesman I was going to schedule an audition so that they can put the two lines side by side using their better Krell electronics. However, I want to blow my available money on speakers, not amplification- this purchase is going to be one hell of a balancing act.

As a side note, I hated the Polks they had, jbl's were transparent but with bright/inaccurate highs, and I really really enjoyed the Martin Logans, which didn't happen with my first experience with them. Wish me luck!

good luck! I hated the martin logan claritys but the vantages were really sweet. I mean the claritys were TERRIBLE (everywhere i have heard them). The hybrid montages sounded much better to my ear. I also liked th polk lsi 25's though. I think listening to the chorus series next to the vantages (vista's were so-so) would be an interesting comparison. will be interested to hear your impression through the krell setup.
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post #647 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 12:45 AM
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So you hate them or thought they were sweet? Sorry, a bit confused. I heard the Vistas, not the Vantages because I don't want to spend on amplification now. I guess thats silly as they go down to 1ohm, and so Ill need amping anyways. I didn't mention I thought the bass response was anemic. However, I never ever heard the decay of the friction of a bow on a violin string before, even after the note had already died out. Now that's detail. The choral work of Ockeghem I brought in was soooooo clear to me, unbelievable. Keep in mind, this is all new to me. On the other hand, I wish that they had more coloration at times, (which would usually be bad thing, right? or not?... whatever).

Also, I personally hated the lsi15's. Very muddy and inarticulate to my ears. Wow, such different opinions, what a subjective thing audio.

Well, thanks for the reply, please feel free to ask anything else you want me to check out among the speakers for the next visit. As of now, I am more curious about the differences between the profiles and chorus' in the same room with same electronics.....

 

 

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post #648 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCollins View Post

Here are a couple of quick shots I took of the 806v with my new camera. Not good shots I know

Chris,

Good stuff! What made you opt for the 806v vs. the 807v - other than about $400 in price differences? I've heard the 807v before. Quite impressive! I don't recall that the 806v were in stock at the time for me to compare them side-by-side. Also, what are you driving yours with?

Thanks,
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post #649 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w00ds13 View Post

I am considering the package below for my home cinema and I am going to power them with this amp.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pioneer-VSX-.../dp/B000F5BHWA

The speakers I am looking at are

Sib XXL Floorstanding Speaker x 2 (left & right fronts)
Sib XL Speakers x 3 (Centre, left & right surrounds)
Cub2 Subwoofer


Could anyone make any comments on if they are a good choice/bad choice or whether I should look elsewhere?
I heard the XL's and the smaller sib satellites at my local tweeter store (Sound Advice) and I was impressed.
Thanks for any advice.

The sibs have a minimum impedence of 4ohms. But they don't list at what frequency. That receiver looks like a good one. You should be OK with that receiver and those speakers. When you heard them, were they connected to a receiver?

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post #650 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 05:59 AM
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What is impedance?
Never heard of that.

Yes they were connected to several recievers and you could pick which one you wanted.
First I listened with the Yamaha RXV1700, the sound was good but sounded muffled. Then a Denon 2807 which sounded awful!
Finally i heard them with a Pioneer VSX81 which sounded superb, so I am going for the Pioneer
Thanks
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post #651 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 06:35 AM
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Impedance is a term that is used to describe how the speaker reacts to the power it is given. Basically. The lower the number the harder it could be to power. Meaning you need more power to help them sound their best. In your speakers case the speakers have a normal impedance of 8ohms but go down to 4ohms. 4ohms is typically demanding which is why I wanted to know how they were being powered. Typically the lower the number the watts you would need. Your "muffled" sound is probably what I was talking about. The Yamaha simply did not have the power to handle these speakers. On the other hand it seems like Pioneer had little problem with them so that would be a great choice.

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post #652 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w00ds13 View Post

What is impedance?
Never heard of that.

Yes they were connected to several recievers and you could pick which one you wanted.
First I listened with the Yamaha RXV1700, the sound was good but sounded muffled. Then a Denon 2807 which sounded awful!
Finally i heard them with a Pioneer VSX81 which sounded superb, so I am going for the Pioneer
Thanks

Are you sure that they had all of the receivers running without any EQ emphasis? There are minor differences between the receivers and sound, but I've realized that with places like Tweeter, you need to level the playing field with the settings.
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post #653 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

Chris,

Good stuff! What made you opt for the 806v vs. the 807v - other than about $400 in price differences? I've heard the 807v before. Quite impressive! I don't recall that the 806v were in stock at the time for me to compare them side-by-side. Also, what are you driving yours with?

Thanks,

Honestly it was size. Those 807v's are some big fellas. I have a Marantz SR5500, and I suspect thats part of my problem. I dont have enough power. I still dont know if they are keepers or not.
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post #654 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 12:02 PM
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[quote=jostenmeat]So you hate them or thought they were sweet? Sorry, a bit confused. I heard the Vistas, not the Vantages because I don't want to spend on amplification now. I guess thats silly as they go down to 1ohm, and so Ill need amping anyways. I didn't mention I thought the bass response was anemic. However, I never ever heard the decay of the friction of a bow on a violin string before, even after the note had already died out. Now that's detail. The choral work of Ockeghem I brought in was soooooo clear to me, unbelievable. Keep in mind, this is all new to me. On the other hand, I wish that they had more coloration at times, (which would usually be bad thing, right? or not?... whatever).
QUOTE]

not a fan of the lsi 15s but liked the 25's (but not as much as the profile or vista/vantage)
hated the claritys
liked the vistas
loved the vantages

agree that the detail of the electrostat panels is really outstanding and the sense of 3 dimensionality and soundtsaging is really a unique experience. I guess I was interested in what you thought of the detail in teh choruses compared to the eleectrostats and your overall impression of the electrostats compared to the chorus series. WHat has not come up so much in this forum is the comparative advantages of the profile series compared to the chorus series (oddly enough)--would be very interested in your comparison of those through the same electronics.
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post #655 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 12:45 PM
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Has anyone done a good comparison between the Profile's and the new Chorus 800v series?

I have read several comments that the new Chorus 800v's are eating into Profile sales, but no good comparison of what differences there are.

Thanks in advance!
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post #656 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 02:01 PM
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I have been researching two amplifiers that my pioneer 84 will feed. They are:
1. sunfire TGA- 7200 7x200 list aprox $3200
2. Krell showcase 7x125 - list approx $5500

My speakers are the profile 928s (getting installed 26 Feb. - can't wait )

I also might upgrade my speakers within the allowed year to focal's Electra line.
Want to hear the 1027 and 1037.

Unfortunately, I cannot listen to the focal's with the sunfire - since tweeter doesn't carry
that line. And the sunfire dealer in my area, doesn't have them on display.
I wouldn't buy speakers without hearing them. Amplifiers, it's not a show stopper.


My only concerned with krell's (ignoring price) is this comment from a Home Theater
review:

"I'll wager that the Showcase 7 will be successful with a wide variety of speakers, short of those that are overly aggressive in a room to match. A solid-state amp and bright, forward speakers in a live room isn't usually a good combination anyway, so the matching issues to consider with the Showcase 7 are the same issues that face most of its peers."

From what I read, the Electra's are aggressively bright??
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post #657 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 02:08 PM
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I don't know about the other lines but my electra Be and Utopia I have listened to are not bright IMO. The old electra 900 series I could see being considered bright. I have never heard the sunfire of krell. The review also said that the krell may run out of steam with very loud passages. I am pretty sure the sunfire would not.

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post #658 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
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I don't know about the other lines but my electra Be and Utopia I have listened to are not bright IMO. The old electra 900 series I could see being considered bright. I have never heard the sunfire of krell. The review also said that the krell may run out of steam with very loud passages. I am pretty sure the sunfire would not.


As usual, thanks for your prompt response. You must live in this forum.
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post #659 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gadget_101 View Post

As usual, thanks for your prompt response. You must live in this forum.


definitely not bright after the break in period (sunfire and the electra 1027's)--and that was just in my setup in my room. The sunfire would not likely run out of steam AND you get the option of current source vs voltage source--i guarantee you that the current source would take care of any excessive brightness you could experience (many people prefer this option for listening)....never run out of power and all the output options--seems like it would be hard to lose...
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post #660 of 6592 Old 02-19-2007, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gadget_101 View Post

As usual, thanks for your prompt response. You must live in this forum.

Nah. I am just a JM Lab freak who just tries to help out where possible . It seems like Deno is giving sunfire a green light. I would give that a try. And glad I could help.

It ain't easy being green.
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