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post #6751 of 7472 Old 04-11-2014, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by htdhvy View Post

I have a full 7.4 Ultima 2 surround setup with Salon 2s in northern Indiana I'll demo if you bring a bottle of Booker's. smile.gif
I think that gets my vote for best dream system ever. What are you powering them with and what subs?

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post #6752 of 7472 Old 04-11-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post

I think that gets my vote for best dream system ever. What are you powering them with and what subs?

Thanks! I have a pair of Salon 2s for the fronts, a Voice 2 center and 4 Gem 2s for the sides and surrounds. For subwoofers I have 2 of the JL Audio Fathom f212s (each one has two 12" drivers hence the .4). Amps are 1kW Bel Canto Ref1000.

Revel Ultima2 Salon2 [pair] || Revel Ultima2 Voice2 || Revel Ultima2 Gem2 [quad] || JL Audio Fathom f212 [pair]
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post #6753 of 7472 Old 04-11-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by htdhvy View Post

Thanks! I have a pair of Salon 2s for the fronts, a Voice 2 center and 4 Gem 2s for the sides and surrounds. For subwoofers I have 2 of the JL Audio Fathom f212s (each one has two 12" drivers hence the .4). Amps are 1kW Bel Canto Ref1000.

Any issues with the Bel Cantos?

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post #6754 of 7472 Old 04-11-2014, 07:58 PM
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Any issues with the Bel Cantos?

No issues in particular. They probably would be better suited with something that could provide a little more current but i listen mostly to classical, jazz and vocal music which don't require much on the low end. When i watch movies, the Fathoms handle the bass (and the speakers are set with a 60Hz crossover) so it hasn't been an issue. I bought the amps before the speakers though. At some point i'll probably move the bel cantos to power the Gems (and buy 3 more for the other pair of Gems and the Voice 2) and then get something beefier for the Salon 2s.

Which amp are you using with your Salon 2s?

Revel Ultima2 Salon2 [pair] || Revel Ultima2 Voice2 || Revel Ultima2 Gem2 [quad] || JL Audio Fathom f212 [pair]
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post #6755 of 7472 Old 04-12-2014, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by htdhvy View Post

No issues in particular. They probably would be better suited with something that could provide a little more current but i listen mostly to classical, jazz and vocal music which don't require much on the low end. When i watch movies, the Fathoms handle the bass (and the speakers are set with a 60Hz crossover) so it hasn't been an issue. I bought the amps before the speakers though. At some point i'll probably move the bel cantos to power the Gems (and buy 3 more for the other pair of Gems and the Voice 2) and then get something beefier for the Salon 2s.

Which amp are you using with your Salon 2s?

I'm using a lexicon but at higher volumes it exhibits harshness. I tried an Ayre with basically the sme power specs and none of that was there. The Ayre was a much better match and sounded great

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post #6756 of 7472 Old 04-12-2014, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post

Make a road trip towards the Chicago area and you'll be able to hear the F208's and lot of other speakers smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by htdhvy View Post

I have a full 7.4 Ultima 2 surround setup with Salon 2s in northern Indiana I'll demo if you bring a bottle of Booker's. smile.gif

Thanks but I was hoping to drive someplace closer.smile.gif I'm about 25 miles north of Detroit.
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post #6757 of 7472 Old 04-12-2014, 06:48 PM
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Why..........You..........

Yeah, I'm breaking bad. cool.gif
Actually ADTG is a hard working, contributing member of society who obviously has a great love of... speakers cool.gif

 

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post #6758 of 7472 Old 04-12-2014, 10:44 PM
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Actually ADTG is a hard working, contributing member of society who obviously has a great love of... speakers cool.gif
moral of the story: Music through Revel speakers is indeed the ultimate drug. smile.gif
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post #6759 of 7472 Old 04-13-2014, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by htdhvy View Post

No issues in particular. They probably would be better suited with something that could provide a little more current but i listen mostly to classical, jazz and vocal music which don't require much on the low end. When i watch movies, the Fathoms handle the bass (and the speakers are set with a 60Hz crossover) so it hasn't been an issue. I bought the amps before the speakers though. At some point i'll probably move the bel cantos to power the Gems (and buy 3 more for the other pair of Gems and the Voice 2) and then get something beefier for the Salon 2s.

Which amp are you using with your Salon 2s?


My two cents: for Salon2's, a Voice2 plus S206's for surrounds, I've used Anthem P5's and Bryston 4BSST2's. The Brystons may be a little cleaner, or it may be my imagination. Either works well.

The Salon2s are superb. It is hard to find enough positive adjectives to describe them. I listen to a lot of classical music in stereo. It is hard to listen to the Revels and not fall in love with each instrument. Violins are sweet and not harsh. Kettle drums have all the right nuances and yet impact; they are just "right." On lesser speakers I've found a lot of harsh recordings, particularly of violins. I've found that it wasn't actually the recordings it was the speakers creating the harshness. With the Salon2's most recordings of massed violins sound much more as they do in a concert hall.

The Salon2's really shine on massed orchestral music. Likely due to even off axis response, and a low level of multi-tone intermodulation distortion, which is intermodulation distortion between large numbers of different frequencies, the Salon2's demonstrate the grandeur of orchestral music while also making it possible to clearly follow the various sections of an orchestra. With many other speakers the first tendency with orchestral music played at realistic levels is to turn it down, or the music sounds like just one big mass of sound.
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post #6760 of 7472 Old 04-13-2014, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post

My two cents: ...
The Salon2's really shine on massed orchestral music. Likely due to even off axis response, and a low level of multi-tone intermodulation distortion, which is intermodulation distortion between large numbers of different frequencies, the Salon2's demonstrate the grandeur of orchestral music while also making it possible to clearly follow the various sections of an orchestra. With many other speakers the first tendency with orchestral music played at realistic levels is to turn it down, or the music sounds like just one big mass of sound.

Multi-tone testing is an area that (IMO) does not get enough exposure. Aside form raw power and the ability to drive difficult phase angles, this is an area not well tested. HomeTheaterHifi and Audioholics do this sporadically, but when done it illustrates performance differences. The THD+N measurements include harmonics +/-250hz which, again IMO, is inadequate.

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post #6761 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 12:08 AM
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You are correct in you description of the Salon2's. Due to the refined ultra low distortion driver mechanisms, the beryllium tweeter which is pistonic past 40 kHz, and the large radius baffle producing almost non existent diffraction, re-creates the musical atmosphere of the live performance. For example, one can hear the concert hall ambience on the Salon2, both height and width.



Mark Glazer,
Loudspeaker Engineer, Revel.
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post #6762 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by revelman View Post

You are correct in you description of the Salon2's. Due to the refined ultra low distortion driver mechanisms, the beryllium tweeter which is pistonic past 40 kHz, and the large radius baffle producing almost non existent diffraction, re-creates the musical atmosphere of the live performance. For example, one can hear the concert hall ambience on the Salon2, both height and width.



Mark Glazer,
Loudspeaker Engineer, Revel.

I'm very curious...How can you explain Tom Norton's results in Sound and Vision where he did a double blind test with the Studio2, F208, & F206?

My F208 does not have the beryllium tweeter nor the large radius baffle producing almost non existent diffraction. When I heard them side by side in stereo the studio2 was superior. I'm rather baffled (no pun intended) by that article. Also, there were rumors that the F208 bested the B&W 800 diamond another time in a double blind test.
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post #6763 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 07:32 AM
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Also, there were rumors that the F208 bested the B&W 800 diamond another time in a double blind test.

I'm sure that rumor did not originate from the B&W nation, but I would still be curious to know more. wink.gif
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post #6764 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by revelman View Post

You are correct in you description of the Salon2's. Due to the refined ultra low distortion driver mechanisms, the beryllium tweeter which is pistonic past 40 kHz, and the large radius baffle producing almost non existent diffraction, re-creates the musical atmosphere of the live performance. For example, one can hear the concert hall ambience on the Salon2, both height and width.



Mark Glazer,
Loudspeaker Engineer, Revel.
Hey Mark

Consider this a big kudos post on the work you and your colleagues do at Revel. If we are in the area can we come for a factory tour? We're the fan club smile.gif

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post #6765 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

I'm very curious...How can you explain Tom Norton's results in Strerophile where he did a double blind test with the Studio2, F208, & F206?

My F208 does not have the beryllium tweeter nor the large radius baffle producing almost non existent diffraction. When I heard them side by side in stereo the studio2 was superior. I'm rather baffled (no pun intended) by that article. Also, there were rumors that the F208 bested the B&W 800 diamond another time in a double blind test.

I'm not sure Tom Norton qualifies as a trained listener. Although his results seemed pretty consistent.

But, as I suggested in my question to Mark, the advantages the Ultima2 have in stereo imaging would probably not be apparent in the mono tests at the MLL.

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
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post #6766 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 09:55 AM
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I'm not sure Tom Norton qualifies as a trained listener. Although his results seemed pretty consistent.

But, as I suggested in my question to Mark, the advantages the Ultima2 have in stereo imaging would probably not be apparent in the mono tests at the MLL.
perhaps, but I'll say one thing, Tom is one of the reviewers I respect most.

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post #6767 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by revelman View Post

You are correct in you description of the Salon2's. Due to the refined ultra low distortion driver mechanisms, the beryllium tweeter which is pistonic past 40 kHz, and the large radius baffle producing almost non existent diffraction, re-creates the musical atmosphere of the live performance. For example, one can hear the concert hall ambience on the Salon2, both height and width.



Mark Glazer,
Loudspeaker Engineer, Revel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

I'm very curious...How can you explain Tom Norton's results in Sound and Vision where he did a double blind test with the Studio2, F208, & F206?

My F208 does not have the beryllium tweeter nor the large radius baffle producing almost non existent diffraction. When I heard them side by side in stereo the studio2 was superior. I'm rather baffled (no pun intended) by that article. Also, there were rumors that the F208 bested the B&W 800 diamond another time in a double blind test.

+1

I am curious too. Thanks for asking.
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post #6768 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 04:45 PM
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Any one living in the Charlotte, NC area know of any Audio shops where I could audition a pair of Revel F208? Im going to be in town over the weekend for the Springsteen concert.
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post #6769 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 06:30 PM
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After a recent repositioning of my F208s, I'm very happy with them. They are now 8' apart and the sound is more detailed, focused, and natural. I would like to compare both the Studio 2s and Salon 2s to the F208s just to hear with my own ears how much of a difference exist between the three. I know I will make changes/upgrades, but I want to make cost effective changes...what provides the most for my money. My priorities are a speaker that disappears, good tonality, images beyond the speakers if the recording allows, and not forward sounding.

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post #6770 of 7472 Old 04-14-2014, 07:16 PM
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revelman is not going to comment on Tom Norton's review.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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post #6771 of 7472 Old 04-15-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

revelman is not going to comment on Tom Norton's review.

Well maybe it was not a fair question. But I thought it was fair since the very properties he mentioned on the Salon2/Studio2 do not exist in the F208. Yet, a professional reviewer preferred the F208. Like I said I heard them side by side and preferred the studio2 - do you think my opinion was swayed because the studio2 was "supposed to" sound better? I doubt it. It's like asking me to choose between two hot looking girls - I can easily pick one over the other. smile.gif

In all honesty, I put very little opinion on what anyone says about anything audio if I can listen to them myself. It's not rocket science - if it sounds better to me, I really don't care about the scientific evidence behind it.

Even with my Emotiva components, I had a chance to listen to almost each piece before I bought them. My SVS SB13 sub was on blind faith on reviews.

I'm actually sad to see this retail model dying out but it is the world we live in. The overhead is a killer.
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post #6772 of 7472 Old 04-15-2014, 10:02 AM
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Well maybe it was not a fair question. But I thought it was fair since the very properties he mentioned on the Salon2/Studio2 do not exist in the F208. Yet, a professional reviewer preferred the F208. Like I said I heard them side by side and preferred the studio2 - do you think my opinion was swayed because the studio2 was "supposed to" sound better? I doubt it. It's like asking me to choose between two hot looking girls - I can easily pick one over the other. smile.gif

In all honesty, I put very little opinion on what anyone says about anything audio if I can listen to them myself. It's not rocket science - if it sounds better to me, I really don't care about the scientific evidence behind it.

Even with my Emotiva components, I had a chance to listen to almost each piece before I bought them. My SVS SB13 sub was on blind faith on reviews.

I'm actually sad to see this retail model dying out but it is the world we live in. The overhead is a killer.

At some level I think it's an apples and oranges. We're talking about a mono test vs. a stereo test. Personally speaking, I think that taking those speakers and putting them in exactly the same setup and playing them in stereo will show more differences.

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post #6773 of 7472 Old 04-15-2014, 11:05 AM
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At some level I think it's an apples and oranges. We're talking about a mono test vs. a stereo test. Personally speaking, I think that taking those speakers and putting them in exactly the same setup and playing them in stereo will show more differences.

I see your point but you have to remember this the not just another test, but THE test. The 1/2 million dollar testing room test. It's probably plays large part in Revel speakers sounding so great. They have superior testing facilities and it's touted by them as such.

I believe they said this is the only facility in the world designed to handle tests like this. The quick changes and speakers in the same spots etc.

I'd like them to put the Focal 1038Be next to the Studio2 and do the same test...
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post #6774 of 7472 Old 04-15-2014, 12:20 PM
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I see your point but you have to remember this the not just another test, but THE test. The 1/2 million dollar testing room test. It's probably plays large part in Revel speakers sounding so great. They have superior testing facilities and it's touted by them as such.

I believe they said this is the only facility in the world designed to handle tests like this. The quick changes and speakers in the same spots etc.

I'd like them to put the Focal 1038Be next to the Studio2 and do the same test...

I concede that point. This is the facility in fact.

My only other observation is Tom also brought out how odd it was to hear recordings traditionally heard in stereo in mono. There are other cues that we pickup in stereo vs. mono listening and I wonder if those cues would go in favor of one model over another.

I haven't seen the off-axis response of the F20x speakers but if the off-axis response is better on the Ultima2 series then I would expect that the Ultimas would perform better in a stereo pair.

I'm the non-engineer blowing steam out of you know where so I may be totally off base.

I'm game and waiting for the invitation to have Revel Customer Appreciation BBQ Weekend at the mothership. biggrin.gif That way we can all stop with our hypothetics and put some opinions down on the board here based on real experience. wink.gif

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post #6775 of 7472 Old 04-15-2014, 03:42 PM
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I concede that point. This is the facility in fact.

My only other observation is Tom also brought out how odd it was to hear recordings traditionally heard in stereo in mono. There are other cues that we pickup in stereo vs. mono listening and I wonder if those cues would go in favor of one model over another.

I haven't seen the off-axis response of the F20x speakers but if the off-axis response is better on the Ultima2 series then I would expect that the Ultimas would perform better in a stereo pair.

I'm the non-engineer blowing steam out of you know where so I may be totally off base.

I'm game and waiting for the invitation to have Revel Customer Appreciation BBQ Weekend at the mothership. biggrin.gif That way we can all stop with our hypothetics and put some opinions down on the board here based on real experience. wink.gif

Lol. Id be down with that. My bro lives in the west coast so I can kill 2 birds w one stone.

Especially if they have all the speakers Id want compared. Kef, Magico, b&w, Wilson, Focal etc.
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post #6776 of 7472 Old 04-15-2014, 06:17 PM
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Lol. Id be down with that. My bro lives in the west coast so I can kill 2 birds w one stone.

Especially if they have all the speakers Id want compared. Kef, Magico, b&w, Wilson, Focal etc.

Can we get an official green from the official Revel crew? How about June? biggrin.gif

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post #6777 of 7472 Old 04-15-2014, 06:24 PM
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Anybody have a link to this article? Sounds interesting, but my Google-fu is falling me.
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post #6778 of 7472 Old 04-15-2014, 09:33 PM
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I will be taking a side trip to Atlanta on Friday, anybody know of any audio shops that have Revel speakers on display? Dealer search from the Revel web site came up with Synergy Multimedia. I went to their web site and it shows they are a home automation company no mention of speakers. I would really like to audition a pair of F208 while I'm there since there is no where to audition them here in Albuquerque
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post #6779 of 7472 Old 04-16-2014, 08:20 AM
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Anybody have a link to this article? Sounds interesting, but my Google-fu is falling me.

Here's Tom's article. It's in his blog section of Sound and Vision http://www.soundandvision.com/content/revel-trifecta

Well guys, all our posts here obviously wink.gif made a difference biggrin.gif as there's been an addendum to the blog post. Kevin Voecks, AKA AVKEV added some commentary after Tom Norton had published the blog post:

Having listened to the Performa3 series and Ultima2 series both for very long periods of time, the difference at high frequencies especially is dramatic. The Ultima2 tweeter is so much "cleaner," with vastly lower distortion (even though the Performa3 distortion is far below most speakers) that it is much easier to listen to without fatigue. Combined with the advantages of low diffraction, it is the high frequency range that causes the Ultima2 series to win in long-term listening tests.
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post #6780 of 7472 Old 04-16-2014, 09:19 AM
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Thanks!
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