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lsdec's Avatar lsdec 11:39 AM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

What is that you say Sonny! biggrin.gif

It's even ok for B&w owners to visit us smile.gif

steady teddy's Avatar steady teddy 12:40 PM 04-27-2014
Add me to the Revel owners club!smile.gif

I ordered the F-208's & C-208. They should be here in about a week. They will be replacing Definitive Tech BP 2000TL & CS-8080HD. I have no idea how they will mesh but I'm going to move the BP's to the back and use those monsters as surrounds, at least temporarily. My pre amp is a Marantz AV 8801 powered by an Emoitiva XPR-5, as I couldn't afford Parasound at the time redface.gif .

I have a question about the break in period. How many hours would you suggest and what would be a good way to break in all three speakers evenly? I have DirecTv and was thinking about just leaving on an HD 5.1 channel like HBO or Showtime at low db but then most of the volume and all of the dialog would come from the center speaker and I'm not sure if the two F-208's would get broken in sufficiently.

What do you guys think?
Thanks in advance.
PlexMulti's Avatar PlexMulti 01:15 PM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post

Add me to the Revel owners club!smile.gif

I ordered the F-208's & C-208. They should be here in about a week. They will be replacing Definitive Tech BP 2000TL & CS-8080HD. I have no idea how they will mesh but I'm going to move the BP's to the back and use those monsters as surrounds, at least temporarily. My pre amp is a Marantz AV 8801 powered by an Emoitiva XPR-5, as I couldn't afford Parasound at the time redface.gif .

I have a question about the break in period. How many hours would you suggest and what would be a good way to break in all three speakers evenly? I have DirecTv and was thinking about just leaving on an HD 5.1 channel like HBO or Showtime at low db but then most of the volume and all of the dialog would come from the center speaker and I'm not sure if the two F-208's would get broken in sufficiently.

What do you guys think?
Thanks in advance.

Congrats! You'll love them.

Break in is a myth and does not exist (audibly, anyway). Fire them up when you get them and enjoy!
truwarrior22's Avatar truwarrior22 01:41 PM 04-27-2014
Break in isn't completely a myth. It depends on the drivers too. Just connect them to a powerful amp and play them LOUD for about 30 minutes before you do any critical listening. Low volume won't do much. If you if your paranoid try low volume then gradually turn it up.
AcuDefTechGuy 02:33 PM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post

Add me to the Revel owners club!smile.gif

I ordered the F-208's & C-208. They should be here in about a week. They will be replacing Definitive Tech BP 2000TL & CS-8080HD. I have no idea how they will mesh but I'm going to move the BP's to the back and use those monsters as surrounds, at least temporarily. My pre amp is a Marantz AV 8801 powered by an Emoitiva XPR-5, as I couldn't afford Parasound at the time redface.gif .

I have a question about the break in period. How many hours would you suggest and what would be a good way to break in all three speakers evenly? I have DirecTv and was thinking about just leaving on an HD 5.1 channel like HBO or Showtime at low db but then most of the volume and all of the dialog would come from the center speaker and I'm not sure if the two F-208's would get broken in sufficiently.

What do you guys think?
Thanks in advance.
Congrats!

The DT BP will make great surrounds. I don't think surrounds are that important in general. But if you ever feel the upgrade itch in the future, you can always add Revel bookshelf for surrounds. No hurry, though. Enjoy.

Breaki-in period is 50 years. biggrin.gif

Just listen to sensible volume at all times. Take care of your hearing and your speakers. You can't go wrong. wink.gif

I would never crank up to crazy volume just for the sake of "breaking-in" anything. biggrin.gif
bangbig's Avatar bangbig 03:57 PM 04-27-2014
Snagged a pair of like new F206's yesterday.

Gotta say, 1st impression is pretty good bang for the buck speaker.
Thxtheater's Avatar Thxtheater 04:28 PM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangbig View Post

Snagged a pair of like new F206's yesterday.

Gotta say, 1st impression is pretty good bang for the buck speaker.
Congrats and welcome to the club. Huge value there!
Milt99's Avatar Milt99 04:29 PM 04-27-2014
Man, it's getting crowded in the Revel Club House smile.gif
wse's Avatar wse 06:07 PM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Breaki-in period is 50 years. biggrin.gif

Just listen to sensible volume at all times. Take care of your hearing and your speakers. You can't go wrong. wink.gif

I would never crank up to crazy volume just for the sake of "breaking-in" anything. biggrin.gif

Or more biggrin.gif. Yes you will change speakers before you change your ears wink.gif. Max volume for me for "Break-in" is 90 db and I stay out of the room wink.gif I like to protect my ears now too many night clubs when I was younger and did not know any better mad.gif
wse's Avatar wse 06:08 PM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Man, it's getting crowded in the Revel Club House smile.gif

Is that a bad thing? West of California does that mean Hawaii ?
RichB's Avatar RichB 06:55 PM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

That will not sound bad at all. If it did, the vast majority of recordings would not be less than DR10 tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

Thank you, thank you this is not the case!

J River 19 has an option to run DR and EU R128 analysis on music files.
Perhaps, it is just my collection but the older recording (1987-1991) are more likely to exceed DR10 and more recent CD's.

- Rich
RichB's Avatar RichB 06:59 PM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post

Add me to the Revel owners club!smile.gif

I ordered the F-208's & C-208. They should be here in about a week. They will be replacing Definitive Tech BP 2000TL & CS-8080HD. I have no idea how they will mesh but I'm going to move the BP's to the back and use those monsters as surrounds, at least temporarily. My pre amp is a Marantz AV 8801 powered by an Emoitiva XPR-5, as I couldn't afford Parasound at the time redface.gif .

I have a question about the break in period. How many hours would you suggest and what would be a good way to break in all three speakers evenly? I have DirecTv and was thinking about just leaving on an HD 5.1 channel like HBO or Showtime at low db but then most of the volume and all of the dialog would come from the center speaker and I'm not sure if the two F-208's would get broken in sufficiently.

What do you guys think?
Thanks in advance.

Congratulations. They are great speakers.

Many think break-in is a myth. When I replaced a Tweeter on the Salon, Revel tech support told me it at about 8 hours at normal and not excessive volume. So if you go with that play them for a day tongue.gif

- Rich
jima4a's Avatar jima4a 07:31 PM 04-27-2014
I auditioned Studio2s new out of the box and they definitely broke in for the first four hours, primarily in the bass. No question for me.
steady teddy's Avatar steady teddy 07:50 PM 04-27-2014
Thanks for everyone's input. Can't wait till the new speakers arrive! It's gonna seem like a long wait.
wse's Avatar wse 08:12 PM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Modern AVRs, at least the ones I hear are not harsh when clipping. They may compress if unable to deliver the required power.
That will not sound bad at all. If it did, the vast majority of recordings would not be less than DR10 tongue.gif

For me, HT is not that demanding, it is 2 channel music that heats my amp.

No need to ever change if you are happy. I expect Most folks don't stress their systems.

- Rich

That 's true only neurotics like us stress about our systems biggrin.gif
lsdec's Avatar lsdec 08:13 PM 04-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post

Thanks for everyone's input. Can't wait till the new speakers arrive! It's gonna seem like a long wait.

Very nice! The speakers will sound great out of the box but at around 4-6 hour mark of listening at pretty loud levels, the F208s, bloomed..it sounded a little more open and I felt this was the "break in".

Whether it's a myth or not won't matter in the long run. You will enjoy them out of the gate smile.gif.
RichB's Avatar RichB 09:00 AM 04-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsof1 View Post

Thanks Rich ..........the L/R speakers are driven by the ML No 432 and the Voice and current surrounds (Boston 300ls- soon the be Gems )are driven by the No 433....they do a good job with the Revels

PS - pse post a pic with the grills in place ......might try to find a pair

Here is a picture of a the a Studio 1 with grill



- Rich
Alsof1's Avatar Alsof1 09:09 AM 04-28-2014
Thanks , Rich -pic appreciated.....looks rather nice !
Will see whether I can lay my hands on a pair perhaps via my dealer can still find a pair lying at Revel .
AcuDefTechGuy 09:37 AM 04-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Or more biggrin.gif. Yes you will change speakers before you change your ears wink.gif. Max volume for me for "Break-in" is 90 db and I stay out of the room wink.gif I like to protect my ears now too many night clubs when I was younger and did not know any better mad.gif

If it's too loud for my ears, then it's too loud for my loudspeakers. wink.gif

Treat our things right, and they will treat us right. wink.gif
AcuDefTechGuy 09:39 AM 04-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Is that a bad thing? West of California does that mean Hawaii ?

He's a fish in the ocean. biggrin.gif
wse's Avatar wse 10:18 AM 04-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

If it's too loud for my ears, then it's too loud for my loudspeakers. wink.gif Treat our things right, and they will treat us right. wink.gif

Philosophies, yes I treat my speakers right with plenty of good music and movies fed by good current biggrin.gif
Milt99's Avatar Milt99 12:41 PM 04-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

He's a fish in the ocean. biggrin.gif
Close but still a mammal, Orca.
Thxtheater's Avatar Thxtheater 05:12 PM 04-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsof1 View Post

Thanks , Rich -pic appreciated.....looks rather nice !
Will see whether I can lay my hands on a pair perhaps via my dealer can still find a pair lying at Revel .
If you are interested in a pair if Salon 1s one of my dealers got a pair in on trade. I think they are asking $5,500 or so. PM me and I can send you details if you are interested.
Alsof1's Avatar Alsof1 12:06 AM 04-29-2014
Thanks Rich -the Studios , Voice and Gems are fine for me at this point in time ...This is where I will stay for the present .
AcuDefTechGuy 07:53 AM 04-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post

Well guys, Audioholics just debunked the theory that all amps sound the same.

Not. biggrin.gif

Speaking of debunking, there is a myth that real life music presents a more difficult load and stress to the amp than in the lab where pure test tones are feeding the amps. They argue that just because the amp measures well into 4 ohms or 2 ohms does not mean they can handle real life music the same way. This is wrong. The reason is because in the lab, the pure test tones at keep at a constant impedance. So a constant continuous 2 ohms impedance is a heck of a lot more stressful to the amp than in real life music where the impedance varies from 2 ohms to 20 ohms.

For AVRs, the RMS continuous 4 ohms testing is a lot more stressful to the AVR than real music playing on speakers that vary impedance from 4 ohms - 20 ohms.

So we have debunked 2 audio myths:

1. Amp clipping does not damage speakers. Speakers are damaged due to thermal and mechanical causes secondary to excessive power, not due to any clipping.
2. Amp testing in the lab is a lot more strenuous and stressful to the amp than playing any real life music.
RichB's Avatar RichB 09:38 AM 04-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Not. biggrin.gif

Speaking of debunking, there is a myth that real life music presents a more difficult load and stress to the amp than in the lab where pure test tones are feeding the amps. They argue that just because the amp measures well into 4 ohms or 2 ohms does not mean they can handle real life music the same way. This is wrong. The reason is because in the lab, the pure test tones at keep at a constant impedance. So a constant continuous 2 ohms impedance is a heck of a lot more stressful to the amp than in real life music where the impedance varies from 2 ohms to 20 ohms.

For AVRs, the RMS continuous 4 ohms testing is a lot more stressful to the AVR than real music playing on speakers that vary impedance from 4 ohms - 20 ohms.

So we have debunked 2 audio myths:

1. Amp clipping does not damage speakers. Speakers are damaged due to thermal and mechanical causes secondary to excessive power, not due to any clipping.
2. Amp testing in the lab is a lot more strenuous and stressful to the amp than playing any real life music.

I suppose these are debunked so long as evidence to the contrary is ignored.

1. There are FFT measurements of amps with moderate clipping changing the tonal balance so as the shift the power distribution toward the upper frequencies.
What has been shown is that amount of energy added from the square-waves is not as likely to damage as the compression and power shift.
So, it is not that a lower power amps is more likely to damage speakers, it is that those inclined to overdrive an moderately powered amp can drive their tweeters with more power than they can handle and cause the thermal problem.
Tweeters do fail an the vast majority of users do not have separate power amps. There is no evidence that a separate power amp is required for tweeter to fail.
To believe this is a myth (presented as an absolute) is to believe that tweeter failure is a myth.

2. Not all amp testing is the same and not all AVR amplifiers are tested with the same rigor as their standalone counterparts.
Testing in a lab can be more strenuous than testing in a lab, except when it is not. For example, for speakers that dip below 4 ohms.
If heat is an issue, the duration of a 4 ohm test matters as well. A few minutes may not be indicative of a 4 ohm speaker listening for an extended period of time.

Here is a real world example. I was able to put the A51 (on an open shelf) into thermal overload driving my Revels with musical content at near reference levels (-5 or so).
The amp has been thoroughly tested into 4 ohm loads 20-20kHz and the Salons are specs are 6 ohms nominal.

Does that make them bunked tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

- Rich
AcuDefTechGuy 11:10 AM 04-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I suppose these are debunked so long as evidence to the contrary is ignored.

Tweeters do fail an the vast majority of users do not have separate power amps.

What evidence is there to support that the vast majority of cases of tweeter damages occurred when an AVR was used? The only time I've even heard of anyone complaining of blowing the speaker tweeters are from audiophiles who used external amps because they "needed" more power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Testing in a lab can be more strenuous than testing in a lab, except when it is not. For example, for speakers that dip below 4 ohms.
If heat is an issue, the duration of a 4 ohm test matters as well. A few minutes may not be indicative of a 4 ohm speaker listening for an extended period of time.

And I suppose the vast majority of the time, most music will require the amp to play @ an impedance of 2 ohms continuously for 10 minutes or more?

So for most speakers with a nominal impedance of 6-8 ohms (but has a minimum of 3 ohms), the vast majority of the time the amp will be working continuously at 3 ohms for longer than a few minutes - not in a few peak microseconds or seconds, but continuously for a few minutes nonstop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Here is a real world example. I was able to put the A51 (on an open shelf) into thermal overload driving my Revels with musical content at near reference levels (-5 or so).
The amp has been thoroughly tested into 4 ohm loads 20-20kHz and the Salons are specs are 6 ohms nominal.

Does that make them bunked tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

In all my years with amps and AVR and speakers with minimum of 2 ohms impedance, I have never ever put any amp or AVR (even 50WPC) into thermal overload with the maximum volume my ears could tolerate, which is about 95dB in 2.0 mode. Never blown a speaker either.

How many people have actually put any of their amps into "thermal overload" and shutdown that is NOT due to lack of heat dissipation?

Now if people argue that one amp sounds better to them than another amp, I can't argue with that subjective assessment.
lsdec's Avatar lsdec 11:56 AM 04-29-2014
And so we go round and around. smile.gif
AcuDefTechGuy 01:12 PM 04-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

And so we go round and around. smile.gif

You are right. Resistance is futile. Must.....buy.......amps..... biggrin.gif

What's in your wallet? biggrin.gif
lsdec's Avatar lsdec 01:16 PM 04-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

You are right. Resistance is futile. Must.....buy.......amps..... biggrin.gif

What's in your wallet? biggrin.gif

Bunch of receipts smile.gif

You are going against the common ideology in high-end audio that all else equal, a more powerful amp is preferred over a lesser powerful amp.

I believe these clipping theories etc. are just distractions from the main argument. Deflect if you must but you used to think Deftechs and Acurus were the be all and end all of high end. (just a hunch based on your name) biggrin.gif.
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