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RichB's Avatar RichB 10:11 AM 06-16-2014
[quote=lsdec;25006362][quote=denydog;24999226]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

Also, just in comparing my F208 to the Focal 1028Be and 1038Be and Studio2, there is another level of fidelity in those speakers that the F208 as good as it is doesn't achieve.

Listening to my friends 1038Be's, those focals are a sweet sounding speaker.
Extremely clean. It seems the 1038Be's would compete directly with the Studio2's. I think Performa and Salons can be driver harder than Focals.


There seems to be some good deals to be had on Ultima's (I am thinking D-something )
You can likely get Studio2's for less than 1038Be's.
Of course, I would stretch my budget a few K and go for Salon2's. Subs become optional


- Rich

denydog's Avatar denydog 01:42 PM 06-16-2014
Stereophile claims that performance is the (only) criteria for determining class designation. KEF LS50 is one of a couple lower cost speakers in class A. I've heard the LS50 and it does sound nice, along with getting great reviews, but to think it out performs all the speakers in class B seems a stretch to me. Judging by performance alone still leaves a lot of wiggle room. Stereophile defines performance as accuracy of reproduction, but how that is determined I'm not sure. It doesn't look like they just look at the frequency response and call it a day.


Along with the F208 review in the current Stereophile issue is a review of the two-way floor standing Joseph Audio Perspective ($12999). It is basically a tower version of the stand mounted Joseph Audio Pulsar ($7,000) which is already rated as class A. I could predict that the Perspective will be assigned class A as well, though judging just by the F208 and Perspective Stereophile reviews, I'd think they performed similarly with the Perspective maybe having less bass extension.


As stated on the Joseph Audio review, there is a lot of competition among high-performance tower speakers. They specifically mention the Revel F208, along with Monitor Audio PL200, PSB's Synchrony 1, and the Vandersteen Treo. I would add Wharfedale Jade 7, Aerial 7T, and the newish Focal Arias with the flax cone drivers. Each of these has flaws, but there is a lot of good sound to choose from at relatively attainable prices.


The step up from this group (which I can't afford) is defined I think in large part by better berrilium and ribbon tweeters, as well as heavier cabinets, and higher quality crossover components.


I think the Revel F208 is in a sweet spot, price and performance wise. I can also say I haven't looked back on my choice, as I keep eyes/ears on future developments in speaker refinement.
lsdec's Avatar lsdec 07:57 PM 06-16-2014
[quote=RichB;25007018][quote=lsdec;25006362]
Quote:
Originally Posted by denydog View Post


Listening to my friends 1038Be's, those focals are a sweet sounding speaker.
Extremely clean. It seems the 1038Be's would compete directly with the Studio2's. I think Performa and Salons can be driver harder than Focals.


There seems to be some good deals to be had on Ultima's (I am thinking D-something )
You can likely get Studio2's for less than 1038Be's.
Of course, I would stretch my budget a few K and go for Salon2's. Subs become optional


- Rich
The 1038Be and the 1028Be have new finishes that lower the price by 3k and 2k or something along those lines.

My buddy got his 1028Be in the mid 5k range. That combined with the JL F113 he got, I wouldn't be surprised if it compares to the Salon2s. It sounds so clear and tight, I can't imagine anyone wanting anything better.

Also the lower level Focals are not as good as the F208...not even close with its boomy bass. It's still a good speaker but not as good.
riffer's Avatar riffer 07:03 AM 06-17-2014
Maybe they will just put it in "Class A" with one more $ sign than the Ultima2's
SyntheticShrimp's Avatar SyntheticShrimp 07:43 AM 06-17-2014
I personally think the f208s are better performers than most of the Class A speakers. I won't be surprised if they make it class B, though.

I've noticed that, although there are some exceptions, speakers whose reviews are published with JA's spatially averaged in room response are more likely to be class A.
lsdec's Avatar lsdec 07:51 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post
I personally think the f208s are better performers than most of the Class A speakers. I won't be surprised if they make it class B, though.

I've noticed that, although there are some exceptions, speakers whose reviews are published with JA's spatially averaged in room response are more likely to be class A.
I love my F208 but I'm a realist . Which speakers are they better than? Perhaps the B&W 800 diamond?
Deckard97 08:00 PM 06-17-2014
[quote=RichB;25007018][quote=lsdec;25006362]
Quote:
Originally Posted by denydog View Post


Listening to my friends 1038Be's, those focals are a sweet sounding speaker.
Extremely clean. It seems the 1038Be's would compete directly with the Studio2's. I think Performa and Salons can be driver harder than Focals.


There seems to be some good deals to be had on Ultima's (I am thinking D-something )
You can likely get Studio2's for less than 1038Be's.
Of course, I would stretch my budget a few K and go for Salon2's. Subs become optional


- Rich


Hey fellas,...anyone have any PBN Montana speakers? If not I suggest you guys take a look...although most people have never heard about them.


enjoy!
lsdec's Avatar lsdec 08:19 PM 06-17-2014
[quote=Deckard97;25051538][quote=RichB;25007018]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post



Hey fellas,...anyone have any PBN Montana speakers? If not I suggest you guys take a look...although most people have never heard about them.


enjoy!
Do they market / promote their products? There are a million speaker companies.
SyntheticShrimp's Avatar SyntheticShrimp 11:28 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdec View Post
I love my F208 but I'm a realist . Which speakers are they better than? Perhaps the B&W 800 diamond?
Nearly all of them from a technical standpoint.

I don't want to make any negative comparisons with speakers, especially of that cost. The more expensive the speakers someone owns the more likely he or she is to try and use the forums to justify their purchase to themselves. Inevitably feelings get hurt.

Suffice to say my original statement stands.
Deckard97 06:27 AM 06-18-2014
[quote=lsdec;25051834][quote=Deckard97;25051538]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Do they market / promote their products? There are a million speaker companies.


PBN does not spend much on Marketing, I discovered them at a CES show 3 years ago.
http://www.pbnaudio.com/


Here's my pair- http://www.thesoundstation.com/pages/montana_eps2
AcuDefTechGuy 07:24 AM 06-18-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post
I don't want to make any negative comparisons with speakers, especially of that cost. The more expensive the speakers someone owns the more likely he or she is to try and use the forums to justify their purchase to themselves. Inevitably feelings get hurt.
I agree. If the goal is to achieve something mellifluous, so many systems could accomplish that regardless of all the technical measurement.

All that matters is that it sounds good to you and you are willing to pay the price.

Some people are willing to pay $22,000 or $25,000.

Some people are only willing to pay $3,000 or $5,000.
lsdec's Avatar lsdec 01:14 PM 06-19-2014
I thought it was based on listening to the class A speakers. I have only heard the Studio2 and none of the other ones so I couldn't say.

I do know that the studio2 and focal 1028be/1038be are both superior speakers to the F208...so perhaps the uber expensive speakers are superior in cost only to the studio2 and salon2.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter - the advertising dollars will have a big influence on what gets categorized where
Milt99's Avatar Milt99 07:08 PM 06-20-2014
I'm not so sure about the advert dollars because AFAIK the rankings are not based on one reviewer's opinion.
If it was based on Mike Fremer, all Wilson Audio would be in Class A Full-Range.
In fact JA points out some shortcomings in the Studio2 cabinetry resonance.

The last time I looked, the Studio2 was the cheapest speaker based on MSRP in Class A Full-Range.
Definitely not saying that Revel is superior or for everyone, obviously not.
For example, I've read several folks here praising Focal here.
I've heard the 1038Be's not extensively but enough to know that for me, the Studio2 is far more to my liking specifically the top end.
Deckard97 01:16 PM 06-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
I'm not so sure about the advert dollars because AFAIK the rankings are not based on one reviewer's opinion.
If it was based on Mike Fremer, all Wilson Audio would be in Class A Full-Range.
In fact JA points out some shortcomings in the Studio2 cabinetry resonance.

The last time I looked, the Studio2 was the cheapest speaker based on MSRP in Class A Full-Range.
Definitely not saying that Revel is superior or for everyone, obviously not.
For example, I've read several folks here praising Focal here.
I've heard the 1038Be's not extensively but enough to know that for me, the Studio2 is far more to my liking specifically the top end.

Hi Milt
I heard the 1038Be's a couple years back, the dealer wanted $11K. The speakers were being fed by Krell Evolution Amplifiers and other flagship Krell electronics. The dealer wouldn't budge from my cousin's offer of $9000. We walked out and moved on...]


The Focal's sounded good, not $11k Good. But that's only my opinion....everyone's ears are different
AcuDefTechGuy 09:00 PM 06-21-2014
I think these speakers in the $5K-20K range sound really good. We can justify either way all day long.
zuluwalker's Avatar zuluwalker 05:11 PM 06-24-2014
I ordered my speakers today. Very excited about owning some Performa3's.


Thxtheater's Avatar Thxtheater 01:07 PM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post
I ordered my speakers today. Very excited about owning some Performa3's.

Congrats! Welcome to the club! Spin up some Yo-Yo Ma plays Ennio Morricone and you'll never look back!
denydog's Avatar denydog 12:22 PM 06-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post
I ordered my speakers today. Very excited about owning some Performa3's.

Good move! Hope you enjoy them as much as I do.
akitared's Avatar akitared 08:57 AM 07-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post
I ordered my speakers today. Very excited about owning some Performa3's.

Thanks Aaron for the extended demo on the Revel F208/C208 yesterday, very informative and enjoyable!
AirySound 08:27 PM 07-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
I'm not so sure about the advert dollars because AFAIK the rankings are not based on one reviewer's opinion.
If it was based on Mike Fremer, all Wilson Audio would be in Class A Full-Range.
In fact JA points out some shortcomings in the Studio2 cabinetry resonance.

The last time I looked, the Studio2 was the cheapest speaker based on MSRP in Class A Full-Range.
Definitely not saying that Revel is superior or for everyone, obviously not.
For example, I've read several folks here praising Focal here.
I've heard the 1038Be's not extensively but enough to know that for me, the Studio2 is far more to my liking specifically the top end.
Agreed, the Studio2 is on another level then the F208. I'm using the F-208 as my left and right surround and the M-106 for rears. The addition of (2) Rhythm2 subwoofer's cost so much I thought it wise to try a less expensive route for surrounds. I'm thrilled with the Salon2 and Voice2 for fronts. I felt if I was considering the Studio2 I might as well go all the way and buy Revel's flagship, for my room.

The Gem2's would have pushed system to wonderful heights, but the outlay is quite high. I have found that adding the subs has been the most amazing compliment to system. I can only guess what 4 such subs would sound like. I've read 4 subs is a can't go wrong effort overall. It seems building a solid foundation makes for a airy sound that is profoundly kind to my ears. The upper frequencies and midrange create a beautifully effortless sound.

Whether my post is pertinent is debatable and may come off like I'm bragging but over decades of being and audiophile the slow climb to the top of one maker's line has had distinct advantages. When the Rhythm2 was released, I couldn't resist pairing two subs with my Salon2's. So far it's sound is what I imagine great sound to be for music and watching movies. A couple big facts, any signs of fatigue have vanished on most material. A dramatic sense of air and scale is injected into a massive sound stage like I've never heard before. Can't wait to calibrate the speakers and woofers with Audio Tools App and choose a microphone kit..

Does anyone have experience with this process or found that the roughly $1200 Mic Kit from Revel does the job anywhere near that of the $12,000 EQ and mic's. That's a big difference for gathering data for analysis and may only be needed for huge rooms..
zuluwalker's Avatar zuluwalker 07:01 PM 07-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirySound View Post
Agreed, the Studio2 is on another level then the F208. I'm using the F-208 as my left and right surround and the M-106 for rears. The addition of (2) Rhythm2 subwoofer's cost so much I thought it wise to try a less expensive route for surrounds. I'm thrilled with the Salon2 and Voice2 for fronts. I felt if I was considering the Studio2 I might as well go all the way and buy Revel's flagship, for my room.

The Gem2's would have pushed system to wonderful heights, but the outlay is quite high. I have found that adding the subs has been the most amazing compliment to system. I can only guess what 4 such subs would sound like. I've read 4 subs is a can't go wrong effort overall. It seems building a solid foundation makes for a airy sound that is profoundly kind to my ears. The upper frequencies and midrange create a beautifully effortless sound.

Whether my post is pertinent is debatable and may come off like I'm bragging but over decades of being and audiophile the slow climb to the top of one maker's line has had distinct advantages. When the Rhythm2 was released, I couldn't resist pairing two subs with my Salon2's. So far it's sound is what I imagine great sound to be for music and watching movies. A couple big facts, any signs of fatigue have vanished on most material. A dramatic sense of air and scale is injected into a massive sound stage like I've never heard before. Can't wait to calibrate the speakers and woofers with Audio Tools App and choose a microphone kit..

Does anyone have experience with this process or found that the roughly $1200 Mic Kit from Revel does the job anywhere near that of the $12,000 EQ and mic's. That's a big difference for gathering data for analysis and may only be needed for huge rooms..
I am inspired by your aspirations, and your follow through. Congrats on owning such a system. It is a shame that when someone has waited so long, and worked so hard to create their pinnacle system that they must wrap it in an apology. Those who have decided to make a purchase of flagship models are often sought out and ridiculed on AVS, for being naive and foolish.

Power to you. What an amazing system. It must be such a pleasure to listen to it, and to have waited and built the best gear up for your collection.
Milt99's Avatar Milt99 06:37 PM 07-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirySound View Post
Agreed, the Studio2 is on another level then the F208. I'm using the F-208 as my left and right surround and the M-106 for rears. The addition of (2) Rhythm2 subwoofer's cost so much I thought it wise to try a less expensive route for surrounds. I'm thrilled with the Salon2 and Voice2 for fronts. I felt if I was considering the Studio2 I might as well go all the way and buy Revel's flagship, for my room.

The Gem2's would have pushed system to wonderful heights, but the outlay is quite high. I have found that adding the subs has been the most amazing compliment to system. I can only guess what 4 such subs would sound like. I've read 4 subs is a can't go wrong effort overall. It seems building a solid foundation makes for a airy sound that is profoundly kind to my ears. The upper frequencies and midrange create a beautifully effortless sound.

Whether my post is pertinent is debatable and may come off like I'm bragging but over decades of being and audiophile the slow climb to the top of one maker's line has had distinct advantages. When the Rhythm2 was released, I couldn't resist pairing two subs with my Salon2's. So far it's sound is what I imagine great sound to be for music and watching movies. A couple big facts, any signs of fatigue have vanished on most material. A dramatic sense of air and scale is injected into a massive sound stage like I've never heard before. Can't wait to calibrate the speakers and woofers with Audio Tools App and choose a microphone kit..

Does anyone have experience with this process or found that the roughly $1200 Mic Kit from Revel does the job anywhere near that of the $12,000 EQ and mic's. That's a big difference for gathering data for analysis and may only be needed for huge rooms..
I don't know anything about the Audio Tools App or the Revel Mic kit you refer to but you certainly don't come off as a bragger but simply someone who has spent a lot of time and hard-earned money to reach a level of sound reproduction that satisfies you.
Congratulations are in order.
I too have been a long time trekker on this path and have reached what I thought was the pinnacle a few times.
For me, the system I now have truly satisfies me and gives me pleasure every time I listen.
It's a very nice place to be.
htdhvy's Avatar htdhvy 08:10 PM 07-08-2014
I finally got around to taking some pics of my Ultima2 based 7.4 setup. Let me know what you think.

HtdHvy's (ever-evolving) Audiophile Home Theater Rig
AcuDefTechGuy 09:58 PM 07-08-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by htdhvy View Post
I finally got around to taking some pics of my Ultima2 based 7.4 setup. Let me know what you think.

HtdHvy's (ever-evolving) Audiophile Home Theater Rig
Nice system. Do you have four subs (7.4 system)?
htdhvy's Avatar htdhvy 03:41 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
Nice system. Do you have four subs (7.4 system)?
Thanks! It's actually 2 of the JL f212s but each one has two subs in it.
epepin's Avatar epepin 09:35 PM 07-09-2014
Would any Performa3 owners in the US be willing PM me with their purchase price? Specifically F208.
neutralguy's Avatar neutralguy 09:58 AM 07-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by htdhvy View Post
I finally got around to taking some pics of my Ultima2 based 7.4 setup. Let me know what you think.

HtdHvy's (ever-evolving) Audiophile Home Theater Rig
Nice system and family room. I would recommend moving those front speakers out from the walls a foot. Right now they're too close to the back wall and that loads the lower midrange, causing coloration.

Have you measured your system and done calibrations?
You'll also want to spend some time (and relatively trivial amount of money!) on a measurement system (e.g Room EQ Wizard + mic). Even if your subwoofers are already doing the proper corrections, you can at least see the results to confirm.
AcuDefTechGuy 10:12 AM 07-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by htdhvy View Post
Thanks! It's actually 2 of the JL f212s but each one has two subs in it.
I think most people would consider that 7.2 because they are 2 cabinets.

For example, most people would consider a subwoofer with 3 woofers to be one subwoofer, not 3 subwoofers, because it is only a single cabinet.

A subwoofer with 3 woofers and 5,000 cubic inch of volume will not output more than a subwoofer with 1 woofer and 10,000 cubic inch of volume. The 5,000 cubic inch cabinet will output less bass.
AcuDefTechGuy 10:16 AM 07-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutralguy View Post
Nice system and family room. I would recommend moving those front speakers out from the walls a foot. Right now they're too close to the back wall and that loads the lower midrange, causing coloration.

Have you measured your system and done calibrations?
You'll also want to spend some time (and relatively trivial amount of money!) on a measurement system (e.g Room EQ Wizard + mic). Even if your subwoofers are already doing the proper corrections, you can at least see the results to confirm.
Don't forget about room aesthetic and wife acceptance as well. Even if he could improve the sound 10% by doing those things, he may still choose NOT to do it for the sake of better room aesthetic and wife acceptance.

It's the same way with subwoofer placement. Sure, the best subwoofer placement may be right in the middle of the room. But would anyone place their subwoofer smack in the middle of the room?
Rod#S's Avatar Rod#S 10:59 AM 07-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by htdhvy View Post
I finally got around to taking some pics of my Ultima2 based 7.4 setup. Let me know what you think.

HtdHvy's (ever-evolving) Audiophile Home Theater Rig
Very nice system and room, congrats. We don't see enough pics of Ultima systems posted.
Tags: Revel
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