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post #7441 of 7470 Old 11-21-2014, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
That's because music is not nearly as dynamic in range as movies. Music puts higher average demands on an amp and speakers than a movie will. On the other hand, movies will place higher peak demands on an amp and speaker than will music. Obviously this is a generalization. There will be exceptions to this.

and in general movies use more speakers so less load on an individual speaker.
There are modest systems capable of providing for the peak volume which should be 105DB from the mains and sub.


Playing music, I have measured (using an OmniMic2) SPL's of 105 DB and with peaks of 110 DB.
This is far louder than any movie I have experienced in a cinema.
The metric is insufficient. 105 DB at 1kHz is going to drive most folks from the room, but at 40hz it won't.
Movies tend to put the energy at lower frequencies.

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post #7442 of 7470 Old 11-21-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
and in general movies use more speakers so less load on an individual speaker.
There are modest systems capable of providing for the peak volume which should be 105DB from the mains and sub.


Playing music, I have measured (using an OmniMic2) SPL's of 105 DB and with peaks of 110 DB.
This is far louder than any movie I have experienced in a cinema.
The metric is insufficient. 105 DB at 1kHz is going to drive most folks from the room, but at 40hz it won't.
Movies tend to put the energy at lower frequencies.

- Rich
Peak readings matter very little. How clean those peaks are reproduced is what's important. Dynamic compression is generally insidious and is typically only identified upon its absence.
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post #7443 of 7470 Old 11-22-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by lsdec View Post
Especially in a dedicated theater...the look is wholly appropriate as well.
Hehe. I have mine in my living room. I can't say I have achieved WAF, but she deals with it. If I were forced to make a choice between WAF and my speakers I would. But I sure would miss her...hahaha
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post #7444 of 7470 Old 11-22-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
No, please be blunt. I need good info.
There you go Tin, here's your new speakers, JBL M2s.
Just $30k for the L/C/Rs and the amps.

Now that the hard part's been settled, all you need are surrounds, a couple subs, a PJ, screen, amps for the subs and surrounds, pre-pro or AV Receiver, disk player, chairs, rack....

 

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post #7445 of 7470 Old 11-22-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
There you go Tin, here's your new speakers, JBL M2s.
Just $30k for the L/C/Rs and the amps.

Now that the hard part's been settled, all you need are surrounds, a couple subs, a PJ, screen, amps for the subs and surrounds, pre-pro or AV Receiver, disk player, chairs, rack....
Your post reads a bit sarcastic, lol.

There are plenty of other options, just as Salon 2's are not the only option for those looking for a music speaker. I used the M2 as an example because, well, I own them. JTR, Danley, Seaton, Quested, plenty of other less costly JBL Cinema models, Klipsch, M&K, Mackie, KRK, Adam, etc, etc.

But yea, the M2's can definitely end the upgrade path.
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post #7446 of 7470 Old 11-22-2014, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
There you go Tin, here's your new speakers, JBL M2s.
Just $30k for the L/C/Rs and the amps.

Now that the hard part's been settled, all you need are surrounds, a couple subs, a PJ, screen, amps for the subs and surrounds, pre-pro or AV Receiver, disk player, chairs, rack....
Ha, I wish. I think it's good to have a speaker to lust after and never own, because once you get it, then what?

The M2 and Everest are two of those speakers for me. I just want to rub suntan lotion on the back of those Everests, haha. Those JBL Arrays look sexy too. There's something very Georgia O'Keeffe about them, and I don't know why...
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post #7447 of 7470 Old 11-22-2014, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
Ha, I wish. I think it's good to have a speaker to lust after and never own, because once you get it, then what?
Just enjoy them is one option...
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post #7448 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
Ha, I wish. I think it's good to have a speaker to lust after and never own, because once you get it, then what?
I wanted Revels for years, then when I was able to get the Studio2s like the Doc said, I just enjoy them.
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post #7449 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
I wanted Revels for years, then when I was able to get the Studio2s like the Doc said, I just enjoy them.
Enjoyment is what its all about...unlike some people, who want to continually analyse their system, instead of appreciate what they have, and what it does.
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post #7450 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 07:17 AM
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I wanted Revels for years, then when I was able to get the Studio2s like the Doc said, I just enjoy them.

Absolutely, I have had by Revels for 13+ years and I love them.
Not immune to upgraditis, amps and source components have come and gone and the sound quality had been improved but the Salons have always been up to the task.


- Rich
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post #7451 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 09:40 AM
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I wanted Revels for years, then when I was able to get the Studio2s like the Doc said, I just enjoy them.
I am enjoying mine as well (F208s) but if I had the Studio2, I'd enjoy just a little more.

But it's good enough to last me years and years, the older I get, the worse my hearing is anyway.
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post #7452 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
If I got F206's, it'd be three across the front, all behind an AT screen. However, the matching surrounds are bipole and won't be a great fit for Atmos.

Seaton Submersive would be great, just not when I have to buy 4, hehe.

I'd love to seriously consider JTR, but no matching ceiling speakers for Atmos is a problem.
Jeff (JTR) is working on a Atmos model in-ceiling speaker. The current Slanted 8's are good for Atmos duty if you have the ceiling height to support their size.

Where are you located as an in-person demo would be the best way to determine if the high efficiency designs are good for you (based upon your room size and comments, I think they might be ).

BTW, I had an all Revel setup (Ultima Studio I and II and Voice I and II plus Revel Embrace and In-walls) prior to my subsequent/current setup.
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post #7453 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Jeff (JTR) is working on a Atmos model in-ceiling speaker. The current Slanted 8's are good for Atmos duty if you have the ceiling height to support their size.

Where are you located as an in-person demo would be the best way to determine if the high efficiency designs are good for you (based upon your room size and comments, I think they might be ).

BTW, I had an all Revel setup (Ultima Studio I and II and Voice I and II plus Revel Embrace and In-walls) prior to my subsequent/current setup.
Is JTR near Chicago?

I've got a theater designer now, so I just need to see what they recommend. My big issue is ceiling height, which is 7 and a half feet.
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post #7454 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 11:26 AM
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Is JTR near Chicago?

I've got a theater designer now, so I just need to see what they recommend. My big issue is ceiling height, which is 7 and a half feet.
What phase are you in? The JTR's don't come into picture until phase 4.0.
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post #7455 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 12:09 PM
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What phase are you in? The JTR's don't come into picture until phase 4.0.
I'm firmly in phase 1. Phase 4 sounds fun!
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post #7456 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 12:11 PM
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I am enjoying mine as well (F208s) but if I had the Studio2, I'd enjoy just a little more.

But it's good enough to last me years and years, the older I get, the worse my hearing is anyway.
I'd like to put 3 F208s in my theater\music room but other priorities before that.
Speaking of hearing, certain tintinus freqs are exacerbated by crappy speakers and recordings.
A muscian friend has tintinus on 1 ear and his first remark after listening to my 2-channel system, was that it was easy on his ear(s). No distortion no reinforcement of his tintinus.

 

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post #7457 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 12:16 PM
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Is JTR near Chicago?

I've got a theater designer now, so I just need to see what they recommend. My big issue is ceiling height, which is 7 and a half feet.
He used to be based there. He is now in Wisconsin but visits Chicago regularly to see family and friends.

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post #7458 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 12:48 PM
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He used to be based there. He is now in Wisconsin but visits Chicago regularly to see family and friends.
Where in Wisconsin? I'm having difficulty finding a location on his website.

Also, is he not good at responding to emails? He never responded to mine. That's kind of a turn off, IMO.

I'll stop plugging up the revel thread with JTR, sorry.
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post #7459 of 7470 Old 11-26-2014, 08:34 PM
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Where in Wisconsin? I'm having difficulty finding a location on his website.

Also, is he not good at responding to emails? He never responded to mine. That's kind of a turn off, IMO.

I'll stop plugging up the revel thread with JTR, sorry.
No worries. You will get similar slow service from Revel.

I blew the midrange drivers on both my F208s. One midrange is in stock and will take a week. The other 6-8 weeks. I waited 8 weeks when I first bought the F208.

Just want to keep it in perspective.
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post #7460 of 7470 Old 12-01-2014, 01:24 PM
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Hi all,

A question for you all on speaker height. Just moved into a new home, and the placement of the various furniture items and end tables has been completed, so I can start finalizing speaker placement.

The left surround and right surround speakers are to the immediate left and right of our couch. They are M12 speakers mounted on the standard Revel stands. There are two end tables/bookshelf units situated between the speaker and couch which will partially block the M12 speakers. I am going to build some platforms to put underneath the speaker stands to lift them up a little bit. Here is some measurement information:

Height of bookshelf unit: 31"
Height of speaker stands only: ~25"
Height of M12 + speaker stands: 39.2"
Height of F12 (fronts): 42.3"

Floor -> M12 tweeter: 36"
Floor -> F12 tweeter: 39"
Floor -> My ears (listening level): ~39"

If I create a 6" riser stand, this would put the M12's above ear level as seated on the couch. New potential measurements:
Total height (riser + speaker stands + M12s): ~45"
Floor -> M12 tweeter: ~42"

Does anyone see harm in having the rear speakers higher than ear level for things such as Audyssey? The main reason for these platforms is I don't want the speaker performance to be compromised due to being blocked by the bookshelf.

Any thoughts? Thanks
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post #7461 of 7470 Old 12-01-2014, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by thrand1 View Post
Hi all,

A question for you all on speaker height. Just moved into a new home, and the placement of the various furniture items and end tables has been completed, so I can start finalizing speaker placement.

The left surround and right surround speakers are to the immediate left and right of our couch. They are M12 speakers mounted on the standard Revel stands. There are two end tables/bookshelf units situated between the speaker and couch which will partially block the M12 speakers. I am going to build some platforms to put underneath the speaker stands to lift them up a little bit. Here is some measurement information:

Height of bookshelf unit: 31"
Height of speaker stands only: ~25"
Height of M12 + speaker stands: 39.2"
Height of F12 (fronts): 42.3"

Floor -> M12 tweeter: 36"
Floor -> F12 tweeter: 39"
Floor -> My ears (listening level): ~39"

If I create a 6" riser stand, this would put the M12's above ear level as seated on the couch. New potential measurements:
Total height (riser + speaker stands + M12s): ~45"
Floor -> M12 tweeter: ~42"

Does anyone see harm in having the rear speakers higher than ear level for things such as Audyssey? The main reason for these platforms is I don't want the speaker performance to be compromised due to being blocked by the bookshelf.

Any thoughts? Thanks
You want the surrounds to be higher. I have my surrounds so the entire 24" tall box is above my recliners....tweeter is 60" above the floor, whereas my mains have their tweeters at 36".
And it does somewhat depend on the width of your room, imo.
In a room 17.5' wide, I had the top of the surrounds @ 70".
In this narrower room(13.5') they're down almost 10".
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post #7462 of 7470 Old 12-03-2014, 09:03 PM
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I'm not so sure about the advert dollars because AFAIK the rankings are not based on one reviewer's opinion.
If it was based on Mike Fremer, all Wilson Audio would be in Class A Full-Range.
In fact JA points out some shortcomings in the Studio2 cabinetry resonance.

The last time I looked, the Studio2 was the cheapest speaker based on MSRP in Class A Full-Range.
Definitely not saying that Revel is superior or for everyone, obviously not.
For example, I've read several folks here praising Focal here.
I've heard the 1038Be's not extensively but enough to know that for me, the Studio2 is far more to my liking specifically the top end.
agreed the top end of Revel's Studio2 or Salon2 is eerily realistic sounding as is the balance of the sound spectrum and unreal good if the room is dialed and system EQ'ed.
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post #7463 of 7470 Old 12-03-2014, 09:06 PM
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You want the surrounds to be higher. I have my surrounds so the entire 24" tall box is above my recliners....tweeter is 60" above the floor, whereas my mains have their tweeters at 36".
And it does somewhat depend on the width of your room, imo.
In a room 17.5' wide, I had the top of the surrounds @ 70".
In this narrower room(13.5') they're down almost 10".
rears should be 15 degree's above listener's head according to Audussey's website I believe
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Originally Posted by lsdec View Post
No worries. You will get similar slow service from Revel.

I blew the midrange drivers on both my F208s. One midrange is in stock and will take a week. The other 6-8 weeks. I waited 8 weeks when I first bought the F208.

Just want to keep it in perspective.
just wondering what happened to blow midrange drivers in 208. I've turned up my 300 watt per side amp nearly full blast and the speakers didn't flinch, just dug in deeper and deeper. I'm not sure they showed signs of clipping even.

I cranked a pair of M106 driven by ML #53 mono blocks to ear splitting levels and they too didn't show an iota of strain and belted it out like there was no tomorrow.

I know lots of 208's were distributed with defective drivers too but I thought it was mainly tweeters but I'm remembering the midrange driver was also defective in a certain range of speakers distributed. Not a lot of people know this I guess but I experienced some of this issue as well as finish issues on performa3 speakers, mostly the F-208. Hopefully that's all been corrected by now and not happening anymore.
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post #7465 of 7470 Old 12-04-2014, 04:31 AM
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rears should be 15 degree's above listener's head according to Audussey's website I believe
Which still depends on the width of the room. 15* from 5 ft away would be 16" above ear level....@ 7 ft its 22" above, which is what my tweeters are above my head @ 60" above the floor.
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post #7466 of 7470 Old 12-04-2014, 12:21 PM
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just wondering what happened to blow midrange drivers in 208. I've turned up my 300 watt per side amp nearly full blast and the speakers didn't flinch, just dug in deeper and deeper. I'm not sure they showed signs of clipping even.

I cranked a pair of M106 driven by ML #53 mono blocks to ear splitting levels and they too didn't show an iota of strain and belted it out like there was no tomorrow.

I know lots of 208's were distributed with defective drivers too but I thought it was mainly tweeters but I'm remembering the midrange driver was also defective in a certain range of speakers distributed. Not a lot of people know this I guess but I experienced some of this issue as well as finish issues on performa3 speakers, mostly the F-208. Hopefully that's all been corrected by now and not happening anymore.
I did get the one midrange and performed the surgery! It's as good as new (at least the one).

I have also cranked it at ear splitting using my XPR-5 (500 w/p/c when running 2 ch) and no issues but I was running REW and trying to calibrate the mic with a test tone. Apparently, I did it at too high a level but it wasn't registering at a lower level and it fried both mids. They both crack when you push the drivers in.

I heard about the midrange, I didn't know the tweeters were defective, so this at least takes care of that. The cabinet on my F208s are perfect so I think I'm ok from that stand point.

What's interesting is that now I have my F208 as my Left speaker and F12 as my right. As soon as hooked up the F208, I noticed a significant improvement in sound quality (I was sitting closer to the F208). I guess I will keep this setup and sit on the left side until I get the other midrange. Knowing Revel, it'll be a LONG while.
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post #7467 of 7470 Old 12-05-2014, 02:14 PM
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How much better does c783 sound compared to c583 ceiling speakers for music primarily? I'm unable to listen to them at the local shop for comparison.


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post #7468 of 7470 Old 12-06-2014, 01:46 PM
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Would the M106 be decent for a temporary (1 year or so) 2.0 setup? I was looking at the SVS Ultra bookshelfs and noticed the M106 are about $825 right now..

EDIT: Actually, I think that's just for a single speaker. Which would be well out of my price range for two.

Last edited by ericc191; 12-06-2014 at 02:23 PM.
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Harman has remarkale facilities for testing (both listening and measuring) along with some very, very smart people. They have every ability to compete sucessfully (IMO) at any price point, yet very little is heard on this board of Revels.

Are they dropping the ball, or are we missing something?
I went to the top high-end audio stores in Manhattan and auditioned several of their best speakers at each one.


The last pair I listened to was the Revel Salon Ultimas. Incomparable - none of the other speakers I heard were as free from flaws.
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post #7470 of 7470 Unread Today, 03:24 AM
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I went to the top high-end audio stores in Manhattan and auditioned several of their best speakers at each one.


The last pair I listened to was the Revel Salon Ultimas. Incomparable - none of the other speakers I heard were as free from flaws.
The Salon2 is the speaker I would upgrade to, if I had that kind of cash.
But I'll have to make do with my MJC212s. Of the speakers I've auditioned the last few years, only the Salons were better.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Denon disc player, MacBook Pro w/ DragonFly usbDAC.
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