Revel Owners Thread - Page 253 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7561 of 7723 Old 01-07-2015, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Since you do not know the volume levels, the dynamics of the music involved, and the differences in the headroom of the amplifier, the statement are uniformed at best.
The following information is sufficient to draw the conclusions I drew:

1) You level-matched imprecisely;
2) Both amps are in absolute terms very powerful;
3) One amp has markedly lower gain than the other.

The only other pieces of information that would be useful are the impedance curve and sensitivity of the driven loudspeakers, but given that the test was mentioned in a Revel thread it's a reasonable assumption that they are Revels or similar and not old Apogees, etc.

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I have no idea, but I have spoken with ATI on these matter concerning the ATI3000 series and the 7900. The ATI3000 uses half the number of transistors that have a higher SOA. ATI build amps for many companies according to their specifications. Given the choice, I would buy the ATI.
As someone with an ATI amp I clearly would too.

But the point is, the NHT and Outlaw amps are of the same design and built by the same build house. So I didn't post published measurements of a "different" amp. I posted published measurements of a substantially similar amp. (Incidentally, I also own two NHT A1's. They're not in current use, and I've never used them for anything but subs, that I can remember. Perhaps if I get time I'll try it out in my reference system.)

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This was the quote. I bolded the part that you might have missed.
I didn't miss it, but you still don't seem to understand the analytic flaw in the snippet. You're not the only one; I received a question. The issue is that results of no difference don't by themselves prove anything. Obviously, the cumulative weight of such results leads to reasonable inferences. HOWEVER, stable and repeated findings of a difference 100% prove the existence of a difference.

Such a finding says nothing about the cause o the difference. It says nothing about preference between the two. However, it does absolutely prove that a difference exists. Doesn't matter if we're talking about two loudspeakers or two lengths of wire. Facts are facts, and honest people face facts.

A thoughtful person would realize the implication of that statement: given that stable, replicated, positive identification in a controlled blind listening test proves a difference exists, why haven't the so-called high-end electronics venders shut up people like me for good by trumpeting such positive identifications? Intelligent people will draw reasonable inferences...

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You seem to think it is great science to doubt my conclusion and not your own
Yes, I believe garbage in (incompetent level matching) leads to garbage out. And poor quality of thought leads to believing in stupid things.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
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post #7562 of 7723 Old 01-07-2015, 08:33 PM
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"Revel Owners Thread"


- Rich
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Oppo Beta Group

Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Oppo PM-1 | Parasound A21 + A21 + A51 | Revel Salon, Voice, Studio | Velodyne HGS-15
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post #7563 of 7723 Old 01-09-2015, 07:47 AM
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Excellent point Rich.. Thanks!
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post #7564 of 7723 Old 01-12-2015, 01:07 PM
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So.....

Any thoughts on a musical AVR for the F208s?

arcam?
Anthem?
Cambridge?

Thank you
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post #7565 of 7723 Old 01-12-2015, 01:14 PM
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I'd think any of those would be well worth looking into, maybe a nod toward Anthem if you require room correction, but you'd have to determine what priority to give that feature. Are you not happy with your Mac gear, or do you require features that your current stuff just doesn't have?
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post #7566 of 7723 Old 01-12-2015, 02:27 PM
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the Mac gear is good but i don't have the space anymore and It's overkill for my room.

I'm looking to downsize and simplify but I don't want to sacrifice musicality.

I don't use room correction, and I like streaming capability.

Thanks!
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post #7567 of 7723 Old 01-13-2015, 07:25 AM
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Makes sense I suppose if you believe in "overkill" Too much is never enough! Just kidding of course..

If you like the Mac sound, maybe they have a "AVR type" unit that would work for you? I'm not that familiar with their lineup, but I know they have expanded into multichannel pre/pros and a few other areas.. Maybe they have a good integrated that would work for you and take less space than separates? Also if you could work with the same Mac dealer, maybe they could work a deal with your existing units? Just a thought.. You might get more for them selling them on A-gon too...

I'm sure others here could suggest some other high quality AVR's too if that's where you're headed.

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post #7568 of 7723 Old 01-13-2015, 03:02 PM
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So it's been a while since I've been on this thread and pissed a few people off (apologies to anyone) but now I'm back to actually inquire about the performa3 series that after a previous listening session with the m105 I decided I did not like. Well it's been a few years with the speakers I have and with more time came more knowledge and I'm looking for something better. When these speakers first came out I had people pm'ing me about deals they would give me on the f208's and f206's saying they were friends with accudeftechguy and jima4 saying they could get me them for very cheap. Of course I didn't believe them but if anyone knows any dealers that could get me a good price on them and of course I could go there and buy them then that's be great. I'm willing to travel a little let's say 5 hrs to go get them outside of my location in northwest pa near erie
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post #7569 of 7723 Old 01-13-2015, 03:04 PM
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Has anyone done any comparisons with them to the sonus Faber venere, monitor audio gold gx series or cm10
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post #7570 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 09:18 AM
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The Performa series sound the same. They have not had any updates FYI.
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post #7571 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 11:04 AM
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Yeah I just have a change in taste and am thinking now the performa3 series might be more my taste. I'd only heard the m105 and thought it lacked dynamics but I'm guessing the towers will probably add more. I've had a problem with my speakers being too in my face and mixed with not so great room aacoustics (for now) they're been very fatiguing and Ihhave no fun listening to music with them. While I'm sure the room acousticsare playing a big part of the brightness I also hear some distortion and extra energy up top. The timbre seems to have a brassy quality to it and I'd like to have a little more detail/resolution, texture, organic timbre and more mid bass body and size.
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post #7572 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 02:05 PM
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Sounds like you've been reading a lot of reviews .

The Concerta2 is announced..maybe they will work out well too. They seemed to be based on the performa3.

Honestly though, there have never been a time when I liked a speaker line I previously didn't like. Trust your ears and you don't owe anybody anything.
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post #7573 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 02:30 PM
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No, no reviews. Just a lot more experience with headphones and some speakers.
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post #7574 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 02:40 PM
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Why would you say that anyways lol. It's not like they're fictitious vocabulary.
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post #7575 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 04:12 PM
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I have a hunch the Concerta2 line is going to sound really good. Wonder if they'll be using SB Acoustic drivers again. I read something about ribs or something on the woofer cone, so sounds like SB. I'm curious to see how they lower manufacturing cost below Performa3 line, because the cabinets look pretty nice in pictures from CES.
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post #7576 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 04:45 PM
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The new concerta2 line looks to be a good contender for affordable full 5-7.0 system. They look good too and have the waveguide. I'm not expecting them to have the sound I'm looking for butwho knows. II'm also interested in the new lower priced monitor audio gold series that replaced the gold gx.
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post #7577 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 05:27 PM
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I have a hunch the Concerta2 line is going to sound really good. Wonder if they'll be using SB Acoustic drivers again. I read something about ribs or something on the woofer cone, so sounds like SB. I'm curious to see how they lower manufacturing cost below Performa3 line, because the cabinets look pretty nice in pictures from CES.
They probably moved from Mexico to Indonesia.

Also, they didn't lower the prices from concerta, the prices are higher.

And paint is cheaper than veneer?

I'm thinking of unloading my performa3 F208 and C208 along w my F12 and buy 6 C35s and the center for 7.1. Hmm.
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post #7578 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 05:57 PM
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Why would you say that anyways lol. It's not like they're fictitious vocabulary.
Lol. What the heck is "organic timbre"? Natural timbre? Timbre that's a carbon compound? Timbre without pesticides?

Just messing around but do you understand what I'm saying? Those choices of words are used in reviews where the journalist/reviewer uses a thesaurus to make the writing a little more interesting .
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post #7579 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 06:51 PM
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Do you know what timbre is? Because it's not hard to figure out what I'm saying. It's the distinct qualities of a sound that distinct it from another sound played Stthe same volume and ppitch. Some speakers produce a colored timbre that shows in every song you play and sounds unnatural and more so in different types of music than others. Granted some of these coloration can be appealing but some can also be off by sounding brassy (my speskers) plasticy, abrasive among others. I'd like a natural sound capable of sounding truly flesh like or organic like the human voice should sound like. No thesaurus needed here. And what does a thesaurus have anything to do with what they're saying if they say organic? I could see where some clever adverbs could come in play...

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post #7580 of 7723 Old 01-14-2015, 07:43 PM
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Do you know what timbre is? Because it's not hard to figure out what I'm saying. It's the distinct qualities of a sound that distinct it from another sound played Stthe same volume and ppitch. Some speakers produce a colored timbre that shows in every song you play and sounds unnatural and more so in different types of music than others. Granted some of these coloration can be appealing but some can also be off by sounding brassy (my speskers) plasticy, abrasive among others. I'd like a natural sound capable of sounding truly flesh like or organic like the human voice should sound like. No thesaurus needed here. And what does a thesaurus have anything to do with what they're saying if they say organic? I could see where some clever adverbs could come in play...
Natural sound got it!

If the definition of timbre is what you described then I don't think you are using the word correctly but it's neither here nor there.

You are looking at the F208? It's a quality speaker but it's not the most "organic" speaker out there. Electrostatic speakers are more "organic".
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post #7581 of 7723 Old 01-15-2015, 12:16 AM
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Oh the hell it's neither here nor there. Differentiate the difference between what I'm talking about and what you consider "natural sound" I definitely appreciate a good electrostatic speaker but they simply aren'tfor me due to the ffact that I can always localize sound radiating off the panels. They have great body, focus and detail but I don't find the panels way of imaging to be natural.
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post #7582 of 7723 Old 01-15-2015, 12:29 AM
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Natural sound got it!

If the definition of timbre is what you described then I don't think you are using the word correctly but it's neither here nor there.

You are looking at the F208? It's a quality speaker but it's not the most "organic" speaker out there. Electrostatic speakers are more "organic".
"if the definition of timbre is what you described "so if I'm wrong then what is timbre.
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post #7583 of 7723 Old 01-15-2015, 10:29 AM
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I'm not mad that you said that I was wrong because I could be wrong but to tell me Iam and then end the conversation was rude
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post #7584 of 7723 Old 01-15-2015, 11:27 AM
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"if the definition of timbre is what you described "so if I'm wrong then what is timbre.
I didn't say you were wrong. I said, I think you are not using it right - maybe I'm wrong!

"It's the distinct qualities of a sound that distinct it from another sound played with same volume and pitch".

Doesn't this mean that different speakers sound differently? Every single speaker that costs over a certain $$$$$ amount can qualify as sounding natural.

A violin sounds different than a flute due to timbre. How does this definition help you buy the right speaker?

What is my point? All these descriptions used by reviewers and somewhat repeated by you are irrelevant imho. Listen to various speakers and buy the one that YOU think sound the best. What I or anyone else thinks shouldn't matter to you at all. After all...who cares which speaker I like the best? The only speakers that matter to me are the ones I have or the ones I want. If Joe Blow doesn't like my Revel F208....ok, thanks for your opinion Joe . When I turn my system on that night, I'll be enjoying the music...couldn't care less what Joe says.

If you learned to appreciate better sounding speakers over the last few years, the next step is to trust your own opinion since you will be living with them.

I said it's neither here nor there about timbre or organic or whatever else you said because it doesn't really matter - I should have never said anything regardless of how funny I think it is when I hear people try to use reviewer's terms in describing sound. What matters is your next set of speakers be it Revel or a different brand.

Didn't you give a link to your extensive music listening experience (I'm trying to remember here)? I hate to be captain obvious but the answer to your search is obvious...buy what you like. If you aren't sure what you like....don't ask the dealer!

P.S. Dealers love selling B&Ws!
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post #7585 of 7723 Old 01-15-2015, 02:36 PM
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Well it'd have to be a pretty obscure speaker to make a violin sound like a flute so obviously it's a bit more refined than that. There's colorations like cabinet resonance and distortion that can color the sound but once you get past that and overall resolution there's more minute things like texture and timbre.
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post #7586 of 7723 Old 01-16-2015, 05:13 PM
 
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I ordered a set of F208 in gloss black, should be in next week. Can't wait to get them set up and eventually compare to what I currently have, a set of PSB Synchrony Two speakers. Initially I wanted the walnut finish, but they were on backordered for a month. Didn't want to wait, plus I think the gloss black will go well with the rest of my components/audio stand in black.
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post #7587 of 7723 Old 01-16-2015, 05:27 PM
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Does anyone know if you can order just one f208?
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post #7588 of 7723 Old 01-16-2015, 05:28 PM
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I ordered a set of F208 in gloss black, should be in next week. Can't wait to get them set up and eventually compare to what I currently have, a set of PSB Synchrony Two speakers. Initially I wanted the walnut finish, but they were on backordered for a month. Didn't want to wait, plus I think the gloss black will go well with the rest of my components/audio stand in black.
Congrats dude. What are you going to be pairing them with?
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post #7589 of 7723 Old 01-17-2015, 05:51 AM
 
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Congrats dude. What are you going to be pairing them with?
I have a W4S DAC2 as a preamp/DAC hooked up directly to a Pass Labs XA30.5, and using a Marantz UD7007 primarily as a CD player transport.
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post #7590 of 7723 Old 01-17-2015, 09:52 AM
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So with the announcement of the Concerta2 line I assume Revel have no plans on updating the Salon 2 or Studio 2 lines then?
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