Revel Owners Thread - Page 277 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 05-31-2016, 06:04 PM
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Hey Guy's
Thanks for all this information! Did anybody on this link listen to the Veneres?
The brand I do wind up with I will eventually purchase there center speaker as well. My listening room is 18'length by 14' wide. I have sound traps on all corners of the room. My mlp is about 14' from the speakers. As you stated a perfect triangle.

Regards
Jeff
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Old 05-31-2016, 06:20 PM
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Hey Guy's
Thanks for all this information! Did anybody on this link listen to the Veneres?
I did. See: http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...6Q9BSfxX3Lj.97

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Old 06-01-2016, 04:57 AM
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Thanks Kal,
Yes I am very familiar with your Venere 2.5 review. I have read through this review several times. This makes these speakers more enticing! In the Revel reviews I have read they all mention how well the 206 and 208 create layering in the sound stage to create more of a holographic effect while listing to music. Can performa owners confirm this? I have auditioned the SFs and GE's at dealers, but they never have them setup properly and it is almost impossible to judge how well they perform.

Regards,
Jeff
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:47 AM
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Hello All,
After reading all the amazing reviews on Revels I just placed an order on a pair of F206's. Should be in by the end of the week. Do these speakers have a break in period?

Regards,
Jeff
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:04 AM
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Hello All,
After reading all the amazing reviews on Revels I just placed an order on a pair of F206's. Should be in by the end of the week. Do these speakers have a break in period?

Regards,
Jeff
I asked the same question when I got my F208's and the consensus was break in is a myth. That being said, I wouldn't go too crazy at first.
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Old 06-01-2016, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post
Thanks Kal,In the Revel reviews I have read they all mention how well the 206 and 208 create layering in the sound stage to create more of a holographic effect while listing to music. Can performa owners confirm this? I have auditioned the SFs and GE's at dealers, but they never have them setup properly and it is almost impossible to judge how well they perform.
Not sure who's saying this -- but the 206/208 are some of the least holographic speakers I've ever heard. Absolutely nothing like that. More of a dark sound, not very airy, not bright, but not laid back either. Extremely over hyped speaker. They sound good, but do not stand out AT ALL in their price range. There are better speakers for the price. I always find it odd how highly reviewed they are, and can't help but wonder...

I do think the F206's look amazing in white though. I almost put a whole theater system together based on them, but just couldn't do it.
In that price range, I'd be looking at Ryan and Focal. I'd even take the KEF speakers in that price range over the Revels, and I'm not a huge KEF fan.

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Old 06-01-2016, 12:28 PM
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The engineers at Harman will tell you that speaker break-in is a myth. What better explains the phenomenon is that your ears get used to the sound of speakers over time. It's more of a psycho-acoustic thing. When we first get speakers we tend to listen to them more critically, listening for problems that may or may not be there (most problems you hear with an extremely accurate speaker like the F206 / F208 tend to actually be in the recording). Once we settle in and relax with our purchase the sound just becomes what we expect

I use this analogy. Say you are listening to a complex orchestral piece. One time you may be paying particular attention to the woodwind section, the next time you listen you are more aware of the violins. Our brains are extremely good at "auditory filtering" like that. I think that also explains why people who bought a new set of speakers often say "I heard things in the music I never heard before!" While an extremely accurate and flat speaker like the Revels will often reveal more details within a recording, it's not as if they will suddenly conjure up an oboe solo that was missing on another brand of speaker
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Old 06-01-2016, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Contuzzi View Post
Not sure who's saying this -- but the 206/208 are some of the least holographic speakers I've ever heard. Absolutely nothing like that. More of a dark sound, not very airy, not bright, but not laid back either. Extremely over hyped speaker. They sound good, but do not stand out AT ALL in their price range. There are better speakers for the price. I always find it odd how highly reviewed they are, and can't help but wonder...

I do think the F206's look amazing in white though. I almost put a whole theater system together based on them, but just couldn't do it.
In that price range, I'd be looking at Ryan and Focal. I'd even take the KEF speakers in that price range over the Revels, and I'm not a huge KEF fan.
Interesting, your experience. Most people report the opposite. But without knowing exactly the conditions you heard them under - and what the source material was - it's hard to say what explains your own personal take on the 206/208.

You may already know that Harman tests the F206s and F208s under scientifically controlled, double blind listening conditions and won't release a speaker until it can beat the competition in the listening tests at multiples of the price point. They are also some of the most accurate speakers on the market, with extremely flat frequency response and broad and even dispersion. I have no idea about Ryan speakers (never heard of them) but the Revels have been tested against KEF and Focal in the double blind listening chamber numerous times (I was present for one of the tests myself - the Revel M16 against competing models from KEF, Monitor, and Polk).

I know I've posted this here before, but the listening tests at Revel are conducted using strict scientific protocols. All speakers are hidden behind an acoustically transparent screen in a darkened room, all speakers are precisely level matched, and all speakers are moved into the exact same listening position so room boundaries are not affecting the sound of one speaker vs. another. The result of all this R&D at Harman means that they can accurately predict which speaker will win the double blind listening tests with about 86% accuracy just based upon the detailed measurements taken in the anechoic chamber at the Harman Labs in Northridge, CA. http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...mCpmIqSgBGt.97

As a matter of fact, Revel speakers are considered so reliably accurate that they are in the Dolby Labs Critical Listening Room, and you will find many of the most experienced mixers in the music industry using them as their reference monitor.

But, even if approximately 86% of people will prefer the sound of the Revels in the double blind tests, you may be one of the 14% that prefers something else

Your description here:

not bright, but not laid back either

pretty much describes what an accurate speaker should sound like
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Old 06-01-2016, 03:34 PM
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For anyone going to T.H.E. Show Newport this weekend, here are the Harman room numbers:

1108
JBL K2 with Mark Levinson electronics

1110
Revel Concerta2 system with JBL Synthesis electronics

1111
Hospitality room with Mark Levinson, JBL and Revel

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Old 06-01-2016, 07:02 PM
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The engineers at Harman will tell you that speaker break-in is a myth. What better explains the phenomenon is that your ears get used to the sound of speakers over time. It's more of a psycho-acoustic thing. When we first get speakers we tend to listen to them more critically, listening for problems that may or may not be there (most problems you hear with an extremely accurate speaker like the F206 / F208 tend to actually be in the recording). Once we settle in and relax with our purchase the sound just becomes what we expect

I use this analogy. Say you are listening to a complex orchestral piece. One time you may be paying particular attention to the woodwind section, the next time you listen you are more aware of the violins. Our brains are extremely good at "auditory filtering" like that. I think that also explains why people who bought a new set of speakers often say "I heard things in the music I never heard before!" While an extremely accurate and flat speaker like the Revels will often reveal more details within a recording, it's not as if they will suddenly conjure up an oboe solo that was missing on another brand of speaker
That does more than surprise me. I had brand new out of the box Studio2s in my room and over the course of about three hours the bass increased enough to become an issue. I then found out from this forum about the boundary adjustments. I can't say the mids or highs changed but definitely the bass did, IMO. After that I noted no further changes.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:55 PM
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This is my first post here.

Having read every comment in the last 30 pages of this forum, I'd like to continue discussion on a couple of topics and in so doing hope we can expand on them.

By way of introduction, I have a pair of F208s driven by an MC452 and that is not (by much) too much amplifier for them, although it would be awkward if not painful to use all of its reserves in my 3300cf (21x16x9.5) dedicated room. My Salon2s are on order, and like another inmate, they have been delayed but are now en route and expected to arrive next week. However I've enjoyed having the 208s here so much that I have not been suffering in the least. Thy are an extraordinarily fine pair of speakers. I can only hope the Salons will be as easy to integrate into my room and that I enjoy them as much.

With that out of the way I'd like to raise the power/dynamic compression issue again.

The Soundstage/NRC measurements are made in an anechoic chamber. Sure, dB are dB but NRC's 95dB standard which is the second hurdle for a speaker that performs well at 90dB is made in an anechoic chamber. That's a lot of sound. More so as the effect of the chamber is to null any reflections that will add to the total energy we experience in room. Very few, (actually none of the direct radiator speakers that SS/NRC listed if I recall) were able to attain 95dB SPL without some power compression, and to be clear, the Revel's deviation was very limited. Also the Salon2 exhibits excellent frequency response and above average extension as well as world class low distortion and noise. Really, nothing in the lists tests any better. I suggest you look for yourselves as I just did.

Regarding the amplifier's contribution to this measurement. I would have to presume NRC has amplifiers of sufficient output not to clip the signal when doing these tests. Indeed it takes a good amp to do the job But power compression is not a measurement of the amplifier in any. In a properly conducted test (and let's give NRC the benefit of the doubt, eh?) the amplifier is not a factor, it's just a current source. Rather, dynamic compression is a measure of the way the speaker reacts to ever increasing input to output sound at a given (high) level and the way the speaker generates and shunts heat to the environment while outputting ever more energy. As the coil and former warm up and generate heat in the gap, non linearities will be exhibited to the extent that the device's power handling begin to react to the current being force fed to them. Pushed to the extreme, the transducers will eventually be overdriven, the voice coils will heat to failure and/or the formers will distort, expand, get burned and ultimately suffer failure. Many of the speakers under test weren't even driven (tested) beyond 90dB as they exhibited early signs of dynamic compression.

Revel and JBL (Pro) pay a lot of attention to taking that heat out of the equation since, as we can plainly see, it lowers sensitivity as it builds up. In the pro world, that correlates directly to money as more equipment would be needed to maintain high SPL as a night wore on. In my small room environment, it really of less consequence, at least to me. I'm more interested in quality than absolute quantity. I'm already able to amplify a signal far in excess of what is healthful (and that with my 208s). That's because I want to enjoy my hobby without losing the very thing that makes it enjoyable: my hearing. No doubt if high sensitivity and electrical efficiency is the objective, there is no easy substitute for compression drivers and horns. But the Salon2s ( as well as many JBL Pro transducers) have vented gaps to help minimize this issue and play both loud enough and dynamically enough to convey the small nuances that make listening to them so much fun.

So in my world power compression is not going to be an issue at any level I want to listen at in my room with the equipment I have. Also, continuous exposure above 90dB has to be limited (under 2 hours according to OSHA) to avoid hearing damage. Just about the length of a good feature!



If you want to go by specs it's hard to find a better speaker at any price than the Salon2 and I have to say, I'm loving the F208s as well. I have also had my Salon delivery pushed back but I'm expecting them here next week. Meanwhile, listening to music (and movies) with the Performas ain't exactly been suffering. I love them!
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:36 PM
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This is my first post here.

Having read every comment in the last 30 pages of this forum, I'd like to continue discussion on a couple of topics and in so doing hope we can expand on them.

By way of introduction, I have a pair of F208s driven by an MC452 and that is not (by much) too much amplifier for them, although it would be awkward if not painful to use all of its reserves in my 3300cf (21x16x9.5) dedicated room. My Salon2s are on order, and like another inmate, they have been delayed but are now en route and expected to arrive next week. However I've enjoyed having the 208s here so much that I have not been suffering in the least. Thy are an extraordinarily fine pair of speakers. I can only hope the Salons will be as easy to integrate into my room and that I enjoy them as much.

With that out of the way I'd like to raise the power/dynamic compression issue again.

The Soundstage/NRC measurements are made in an anechoic chamber. Sure, dB are dB but NRC's 95dB standard which is the second hurdle for a speaker that performs well at 90dB is made in an anechoic chamber. That's a lot of sound. More so as the effect of the chamber is to null any reflections that will add to the total energy we experience in room. Very few, (actually none of the direct radiator speakers that SS/NRC listed if I recall) were able to attain 95dB SPL without some power compression, and to be clear, the Revel's deviation was very limited. Also the Salon2 exhibits excellent frequency response and above average extension as well as world class low distortion and noise. Really, nothing in the lists tests any better. I suggest you look for yourselves as I just did.

Regarding the amplifier's contribution to this measurement. I would have to presume NRC has amplifiers of sufficient output not to clip the signal when doing these tests. Indeed it takes a good amp to do the job But power compression is not a measurement of the amplifier in any. In a properly conducted test (and let's give NRC the benefit of the doubt, eh?) the amplifier is not a factor, it's just a current source. Rather, dynamic compression is a measure of the way the speaker reacts to ever increasing input to output sound at a given (high) level and the way the speaker generates and shunts heat to the environment while outputting ever more energy. As the coil and former warm up and generate heat in the gap, non linearities will be exhibited to the extent that the device's power handling begin to react to the current being force fed to them. Pushed to the extreme, the transducers will eventually be overdriven, the voice coils will heat to failure and/or the formers will distort, expand, get burned and ultimately suffer failure. Many of the speakers under test weren't even driven (tested) beyond 90dB as they exhibited early signs of dynamic compression.

Revel and JBL (Pro) pay a lot of attention to taking that heat out of the equation since, as we can plainly see, it lowers sensitivity as it builds up. In the pro world, that correlates directly to money as more equipment would be needed to maintain high SPL as a night wore on. In my small room environment, it really of less consequence, at least to me. I'm more interested in quality than absolute quantity. I'm already able to amplify a signal far in excess of what is healthful (and that with my 208s). That's because I want to enjoy my hobby without losing the very thing that makes it enjoyable: my hearing. No doubt if high sensitivity and electrical efficiency is the objective, there is no easy substitute for compression drivers and horns. But the Salon2s ( as well as many JBL Pro transducers) have vented gaps to help minimize this issue and play both loud enough and dynamically enough to convey the small nuances that make listening to them so much fun.

So in my world power compression is not going to be an issue at any level I want to listen at in my room with the equipment I have. Also, continuous exposure above 90dB has to be limited (under 2 hours according to OSHA) to avoid hearing damage. Just about the length of a good feature!



If you want to go by specs it's hard to find a better speaker at any price than the Salon2 and I have to say, I'm loving the F208s as well. I have also had my Salon delivery pushed back but I'm expecting them here next week. Meanwhile, listening to music (and movies) with the Performas ain't exactly been suffering. I love them!
Ok ok, I'll take the F208's off your hands when the Salon2's come in. 😉
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:36 PM
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Ok ok, I'll take the F208's off your hands when the Salon2's come in. 😉
I haven't decided what to do with them yet, but I'm pretty sure you figured out that I sure do like them. I'll probably sell them but there's always the chance that they might work better in this room than the Salons. Slim chance, but a chance!
Your interest is noted
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:56 AM
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I haven't decided what to do with them yet, but I'm pretty sure you figured out that I sure do like them. I'll probably sell them but there's always the chance that they might work better in this room than the Salons. Slim chance, but a chance!
Your interest is noted

When you get your Salon2's, try them (even if only one speakers) bi-amped. I have found a marked improvement in low frequency control and clearity. YMMV.


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Old 06-03-2016, 07:54 AM
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When you get your Salon2's, try them (even if only one speakers) bi-amped. I have found a marked improvement in low frequency control and clearity. YMMV.


- Rich
I'll give it a shot. My inclination was to run each speaker full range off a single big amp channel. The system is really pretty simple. Oppo 105, C52, MC452, the speakers and that's about it. I also have an XBRX940C that runs through the MC stuff via toslink but I have no plans to go 5.1 at this time. Although, the 208s would probably make good surrounds and I do have the room to do it.

I conceived the thing as a 2 channel music only system but got the display when I was offered a deal on it that I couldn't refuse.

These things do seem to take on a life of their own though adding another amplifier at this time could result in a domestic revolt.
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:37 AM
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Well.... the 5 week wait is almost over....

The Salon 2 is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow....

Should be a fun day.....

Shelly
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Old 06-03-2016, 10:54 AM
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I assume you have been waiting for the mahogany version as I have been. They had black in stock, but we wanted the wood finish. Mine are supposed to be here Tuesday.
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:30 AM
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Yup..... Waiting for mahogany......

And I just found out it will be a longer wait..........

They are saying another 2 or 3 weeks now.......

What a bummer.......

Shelly.......
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Old 06-03-2016, 12:49 PM
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I ordered mine at the end of March if it makes you feel any better. Which it likely doesn't. I heard they had rejected a run of mahogany cabinets as not having made the grade, but that could be hearsay. I ended up getting the F208s to fill in after the second delay as I'd received my new electronics and was just looking at them but didn't have any speakers at all as I sold my last ones (KEfs) when we moved here. I was going to buy 208s in the first place but decided to just go for broke with the big guys.

Hang tight. They'll be worth it and we'll be laughing in the end.
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Old 06-03-2016, 02:59 PM
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It's true - there was a mahogany cabinet problem (ran into it on a Voice2).

It will be worth the wait!

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Old 06-03-2016, 03:28 PM
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Hi Jim,
I don't have enough posts to reply to a PM yet, but I'm working on it. I hope you don't mind that I am answering you in the clear.

I had a pair of KEF 107/2s. I owned them for almost 20 years. I also had a pair of LSR 4328s but I didn't use them as a main speaker. They're nice but they were used for studio work. I gave them to my daughter for her studio when we got here. She's got a hell of an ear, is a really good musician and recordist.

I admire KEF and their design approach and would certainly consider any of their better products again, but the Revels won me over this time.
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Old 06-03-2016, 03:32 PM
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It's true - there was a mahogany cabinet problem (ran into it on a Voice2).

It will be worth the wait!
Hi John. That's what my wife said. she didn't want black, go figure!
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Old 06-03-2016, 03:38 PM
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Hi John. That's what my wife said. she didn't want black, go figure!
Of course she wants mahogany


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Old 06-03-2016, 06:34 PM
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I ordered mine at the end of March if it makes you feel any better. Which it likely doesn't. I heard they had rejected a run of mahogany cabinets as not having made the grade, but that could be hearsay. I ended up getting the F208s to fill in after the second delay as I'd received my new electronics and was just looking at them but didn't have any speakers at all as I sold my last ones (KEfs) when we moved here. I was going to buy 208s in the first place but decided to just go for broke with the big guys.

Hang tight. They'll be worth it and we'll be laughing in the end.
I ordered mine May 2nd........

I actually stopped by the dealer tonight, as I was at a restaurant right near them.

My wife saw the speakers for the first time, and expressed some reservations about the mahogany, and our color scheme in the room.....

She said I should have got the black... ..it would would fit with our scheme better....

She also said the speakers are huge......

So I might change them to the black, as they obviously have not shipped my original order yet.......

I lIke the black, so no issues with that..... I will decide tomorrow....

Shelly
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:49 PM
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I suggested to my wife that I was running out of patience and that we should get the black ones but she said nah, wanted the mahogany. My 208s are in walnut and they look great and as mine have shipped it's too late to switch horses now. But I think the black would have been fine.

I guess I can post pics now!

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Last edited by Lindy's lad; 06-03-2016 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 06-04-2016, 09:42 PM
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After two days at THE Show Newport here in SoCal I have narrowed my short list down to two speaker choices for our new home and HT. I was very pleased with the Performa 3 206's and could easily live with them. That being said Revel did not have the 208's at the show. Now my mission is to find a dealer where I can have a listening session. I must say for the price range the 206's would be extremely hard to beat. After several conversations with the wonderful people at Revel it was suggested that the 208's might be better for the size room we are building. It is 15.6 wide by 24 long with 9 ft ceilings.

As alway the show was a lot of fun with tons of interesting audio equipment and yes there were a few two channel rooms that had equipment that would more than pay for the building of our new home with a nicely equipped HT........

Cheers Gary
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Old 06-04-2016, 10:12 PM
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[QUOTE=Sedlack;44513321]After two days at THE Show Newport here in SoCal I have narrowed my short list down to two speaker choices for our new home and HT. I was very pleased with the Performa 3 206's and could easily live with them. That being said Revel did not have the 208's at the show. Now my mission is to find a dealer where I can have a listening session. I must say for the price range the 206's would be extremely hard to beat. After several conversations with the wonderful people at Revel it was suggested that the 208's might be better for the size room we are building. It is 15.6 wide by 24 long with 9 ft ceilings.

The 208's would be a good choice for the fronts and rears. As for the center, I suggest kicking it up to the only Revel center with a beryllium tweeter, the Voice2. More expensive, yes, but a wonderful upgrade.
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Old 06-04-2016, 11:39 PM
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The 208's would be a good choice for the fronts and rears. As for the center, I suggest kicking it up to the only Revel center with a beryllium tweeter, the Voice2. More expensive, yes, but a wonderful upgrade.[/QUOTE]

Great choice for the fronts, but depending on the number of subwoofers, the 208s might be overkill for surround (side or rear) duties. Tempting as it is, I am not sure about mixing in the Voice2. The tweeter is the least critical driver for movies, and for music it could stand out in a not-so-good way. Beyond the fronts, I would suggest the C208, S206s (or 106/105 bookshelves), and put the savings into more or better subwoofers. That's a big room to pressurize.
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Old 06-05-2016, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post
Thanks Kal,
In the Revel reviews I have read they all mention how well the 206 and 208 create layering in the sound stage to create more of a holographic effect while listing to music. Can performa owners confirm this? I have auditioned the SFs and GE's at dealers, but they never have them setup properly and it is almost impossible to judge how well they perform.

Regards,
Jeff
They image with great precision in my room. Definitely a feature!

Good imaging and a wide stage is the result of a controlled environment (a good room and careful placement) and precision matching of the loudspeaker pair. Response anomalies in one speaker relative to another will smear the image. A manufacturer has to practice good q.c. to get results in this department. Harman is certainly assuring that with this line. I would think any of the better Sonus Faber products (as well as other companies like Focal, B&W among others...and I assume Golden Ear) do the same. This is the kind of thing that can be hard to judge in all but the best showrooms.

But yeah, my Revels throw a wide (often beyond the speakers, program dependent) and deep soundstage with voices and instruments firmly placed within it. The speakers just disappear, really. Solo voices are rock solid in the middle and instruments are arrayed in their proper location and easy to place. It's easier to hear this with classic orchestral music than music that has been panned. I think that's probably because you know for sure where the instrument is supposed to be within an orchestra whereas with multitracked recordings it's sort of mixer's choice.

Anyway, you won't be disappointed when you get them home. Quite the opposite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedlack View Post
After two days at THE Show Newport here in SoCal I have narrowed my short list down to two speaker choices for our new home and HT. I was very pleased with the Performa 3 206's and could easily live with them. That being said Revel did not have the 208's at the show. Now my mission is to find a dealer where I can have a listening session. I must say for the price range the 206's would be extremely hard to beat. After several conversations with the wonderful people at Revel it was suggested that the 208's might be better for the size room we are building. It is 15.6 wide by 24 long with 9 ft ceilings.

Cheers Gary
Your room is very similar in size to mine. Yours is a bit longer, mine is a bit wider with just a bit more ceiling height. Cubic volume is very close. The 208s work great in my place. I credit the room for making it easy and I think your room will also be tasty. I'm happy, even surprised, at just how well the 208s have taken to my room. Were I you, I'd be inclined to go that way if the budget was there. Your room can definitely take advantage of the 208's fuller bottom end.
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Old 06-05-2016, 05:11 AM
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My local dealer recently picked up the Revel line and hopefully some day he will get the Studio2 or preferably Salon2 into the showroom. He has either the F206 or F208 right now. A very nice looking speaker if I must say, I like the walnut.

Any idea why Revel didn't make the Voice2 larger in size to get more low end performance out of it in order to better integrate with the Studio2 and Salon2? This probably isn't an issue in a movie setup but in a multi-channel music setup where the user can't add a 3rd Studio2 or Salon2 the integration wouldn't be at it's best. Yes you can use bass management to compensate for the low end loss and however many prefer to use analog bypass when listening to music.

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