Revel Owners Thread - Page 287 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 408Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #8581 of 8610 Unread 07-18-2016, 11:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
jdlynch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Agreed, I was just explaining why the Levinson's just aren't an option for me and, most likely, many other customers, especially when a multichannel system is involved.

My only real complaint with the ATI's is that the front panels would benefit from a more professional look (to put it kindly...). They don't need to be .5" thick solid aluminum, but they could make them look a lot nicer without increasing the cost (at least not significantly). Since mine are behind perforated (Salamander Synergy) doors, it's not that big a deal.
I couldn't agree more. Besides matching my LS10, that was one of the reasons I went with the RA7300. It's too bad ATI didn't put a little more effort into making the front panel more attractive.

David Lynch Current Equipment: Datasat LS10 w/ Atmos and DIRAC. Datasat RA7300, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
jdlynch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8582 of 8610 Unread 07-18-2016, 02:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
John Schuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 450 Post(s)
Liked: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
It's not so much that I'm skeptical about the 536, as I'm sure it's a fine amp. The problems are:

1) Cost - $15k each MSRP is out of budget given that I have 6 Salon 2's and a Voice 2 in my system. Even with a generous discount, that's still a lot of money and each amp costs more than a single Salon 2.
2) The space required for 6 or 7 monoblocks just isn't an option for me. I can't fit more than 3 amps into my system without running into space issues. I recently switched from a pair of Parasound JC-1's and an A51 to a pair of ATI Signature AT6007's, partly for this reason.
Six Salon2s! What are you trying to do, recreate the Dolby Labs critical listening room?



Of course, they have nine

I'm jealous of your setup, though, for sure! I just added a pair of F208s as my side surrounds. I can always move them to the front for demo purposes should a potential customer want to hear them

Totally get your reasoning.
RichB and avkv like this.

John Schuermann
www.thescreeningroomav.com Home Theater Design john@thescreeningroomav.com
JS Music and Sound Post Production Audio / Original Music for Film and Video
Check out my new movie!: www.stephensonmovie.com
John Schuermann is offline  
post #8583 of 8610 Unread 07-18-2016, 02:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
John Schuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 450 Post(s)
Liked: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post
Your 6007's are extremely well built with some of the highest quality components. You are not giving anything up in sound quality compared to Levinson; except for bragging rights.
Even most of the guys at Harman will agree that well designed electronics are neutral, so won't argue that the MLs will necessarily sound better. If the MLs are, in fact, capable of handling the complex load of the Salon2s more effectively, they may play louder with less distortion under certain circumstances.

John Schuermann
www.thescreeningroomav.com Home Theater Design john@thescreeningroomav.com
JS Music and Sound Post Production Audio / Original Music for Film and Video
Check out my new movie!: www.stephensonmovie.com
John Schuermann is offline  
post #8584 of 8610 Unread 07-18-2016, 02:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
jdlynch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Even most of the guys at Harman will agree that well designed electronics are neutral, so won't argue that the MLs will necessarily sound better. If the MLs are, in fact, capable of handling the complex load of the Salon2s more effectively, they may play louder with less distortion under certain circumstances.

John- I appreciate the honesty in your response. The Levinson's do have beefy power supplies, however, the ATI Signatures' power supply is perfectly adequate to drive the Salon2's. I have not compared the specs of the two amps side-by-side, but, at this level of quality the differences are quite small.

David Lynch Current Equipment: Datasat LS10 w/ Atmos and DIRAC. Datasat RA7300, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
jdlynch is offline  
post #8585 of 8610 Unread 07-18-2016, 03:27 PM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 8,721
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 803 Post(s)
Liked: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post
I couldn't agree more. Besides matching my LS10, that was one of the reasons I went with the RA7300. It's too bad ATI didn't put a little more effort into making the front panel more attractive.
Yeah, the Datasat amps look great and I suspect it wouldn't cost ATI all that much to do something similar (IIRC, the Datasat RA7300 is built by ATI...).

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Six Salon2s! What are you trying to do, recreate the Dolby Labs critical listening room?


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Of course, they have nine
Well, I don't want anyone to accuse me of getting too crazy. Besides, putting one in front of my TV wouldn't work so well...

All joking aside, after discounts were factored in, it really wasn't ~that~ much more to go with Salon 2's all around instead of going with Studio 2's or Gem 2's for the sides and rears.
avkv likes this.
gsr is offline  
post #8586 of 8610 Unread 07-18-2016, 03:51 PM
Oppo Beta Group
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 9,449
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Agreed, I was just explaining why the Levinson's just aren't an option for me and, most likely, many other customers, especially when a multichannel system is involved.

My only real complaint with the ATI's is that the front panels would benefit from a more professional look (to put it kindly...). They don't need to be .5" thick solid aluminum, but they could make them look a lot nicer without increasing the cost (at least not significantly). Since mine are behind perforated (Salamander Synergy) doors, it's not that big a deal.

I completely gree. A simple black brushed aluminum faceplate with a dark gray AT6000 would be nice.


Here is a picture of how the 3 ATI's look in my system. Each Salon2 is driven by an AT6002 (dual mono-block). I guess you could call that quad-blocking The AT6006 drives the Voice2, and Studio2 rears.





Here is a picture of my cat because he so damn cute




- Rich
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	System.JPG
Views:	66
Size:	369.5 KB
ID:	1553321   Click image for larger version

Name:	Shadow.JPG
Views:	54
Size:	107.5 KB
ID:	1553329  
John Schuermann likes this.

Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Emotiva XMC-1 | Oppo PM-1 | ATI Signature AT6002 x 2 + AT6006 | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Velodyne HGS-15
RichB is online now  
post #8587 of 8610 Unread 07-18-2016, 03:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
steady teddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Macomb, Michigan
Posts: 800
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post
It's too bad ATI didn't put a little more effort into making the front panel more attractive.
My AT6002 doesn't look that bad, really. Has kind of a smooth look with the handles removed (attached pic). Or maybe it's because it's in a closet and I don't have to look at it all day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post
The Levinson's do have beefy power supplies, however, the ATI Signatures' power supply is perfectly adequate to drive the Salon2's. have not compared the specs of the two amps side-by-side, but, at this level of quality the differences are quite small.
Agreed. the AT6002 is a beast. It has more than enough power for my Salon2's, and it's dead silent.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ATI.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	137.7 KB
ID:	1553297  
RichB likes this.
steady teddy is offline  
post #8588 of 8610 Unread 07-19-2016, 12:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
Posts: 5,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Weird.
Is the AVS search function broken?
I was sure I had posted in this thread a month or so ago and had asked a question about bi-amping Studio2s, that I really already knew but had forgotten, & got a great explanation but a search didn't turn it up.
Oh well, just wanted to chime in about John's contribution here and "sniping dealers".

I'm positive all of the knowledgeable posters here understand the difference between value and price.
To the folks that have availed themselves of John's valueable advice and succumbed to a lower price.
Just remember who's most likely to support you in the future when no money is in the equation or will even be in the business.
The sniper or the guy who freely offers up a wealth of advice earned from having a perceptive mind and years of experience?

I totally understand the price pressures for gear like this and am not casting aspersions but I also have a few decades of experience
in and out of the audio world and the above has never been more true than now.
avkv and John Schuermann like this.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is online now  
post #8589 of 8610 Unread 07-20-2016, 04:04 PM
Member
 
skinnydoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
sorry to hijack the stuff I will never be able to afford conversation LOL, but does anyone know the difference between the Revel C263, C363, C563 and C763? I spoke with Revel, even they didn't seem sure haha

Has anyone heard these things (other than the c763L's)? They seem to not actually exist in Canada, so looks like I need to get murdered by exchange/shipping/duties and order them from the US (likely from John? Not sure what the post above is alluding to? John = good I think?).

Revel did tell me that my room is small enough not to notice the effect of the C763L, but still unsure which one matches my lowly Revel Concerta 1's. I assume a 3 way ceiling speaker to match my F12's? Apparently there are few dealers in Ontario, and the one I spoke with wouldn't give me a quote and sort of fluffed me off... not too impressed by Revel's dealer network and availability. It's not like I live in an igloo and have a dogsled

End of rant, sorry guys

Last edited by skinnydoggy; 07-20-2016 at 04:12 PM.
skinnydoggy is online now  
post #8590 of 8610 Unread 07-20-2016, 04:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Orbitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Liked: 332
skindog - how about Genesis Audio in Ontario?
Orbitron is online now  
post #8591 of 8610 Unread 07-20-2016, 04:55 PM
Member
 
skinnydoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
skindog - how about Genesis Audio in Ontario?
Looks like they are in Ohio, guess they moved?
skinnydoggy is online now  
post #8592 of 8610 Unread 07-20-2016, 05:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Orbitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Liked: 332
Road Trip.
Orbitron is online now  
post #8593 of 8610 Unread 07-20-2016, 06:28 PM
Member
 
avkv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Revel Architectural Speaker Series Differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
sorry to hijack the stuff I will never be able to afford conversation LOL, but does anyone know the difference between the Revel C263, C363, C563 and C763? I spoke with Revel, even they didn't seem sure haha

Has anyone heard these things (other than the c763L's)? They seem to not actually exist in Canada, so looks like I need to get murdered by exchange/shipping/duties and order them from the US (likely from John? Not sure what the post above is alluding to? John = good I think?).

Revel did tell me that my room is small enough not to notice the effect of the C763L, but still unsure which one matches my lowly Revel Concerta 1's. I assume a 3 way ceiling speaker to match my F12's? Apparently there are few dealers in Ontario, and the one I spoke with wouldn't give me a quote and sort of fluffed me off... not too impressed by Revel's dealer network and availability. It's not like I live in an igloo and have a dogsled

End of rant, sorry guys
Skinnydoggy,

I am sorry you have had difficulties finding Revel architectural speakers in Canada. They should be readily available. I am inquiring with our Canadian colleagues to see why there is an issue. I have sent you a PM asking for your location.

Please explain your exact application, including their approximate locations within your room, the room dimensions, and the associated equipment to help in making a recommendation.

The attached doc indicates the differences between the various series.

Best regards,
Kevin Voecks
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Highly compressed Revel Architectural differences.pdf (746.5 KB, 27 views)
John Schuermann likes this.
avkv is online now  
post #8594 of 8610 Unread 07-20-2016, 06:58 PM
Member
 
skinnydoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by avkv View Post
Skinnydoggy,

I am sorry you have had difficulties finding Revel architectural speakers in Canada. They should be readily available. I am inquiring with our Canadian colleagues to see why there is an issue. I have sent you a PM asking for your location.

Please explain your exact application, including their approximate locations within your room, the room dimensions, and the associated equipment to help in making a recommendation.

The attached doc indicates the differences between the various series.

Best regards,
Kevin Voecks
Wow, you guys are good. I bought my Revels originally at Star Electronics in Etobicoke (Toronto area). They don't seem to carry Revel anymore? I have also been to Electronic Depot, but they are nowhere near me, seems their prices are out to lunch too... cheaper to import them by over 60%-70%, not even kidding.

My room is approximately 14x14, open staircase, carpet, plastic divider (which my listening couch is near).

I have 2 F12's a C12, 2 S12's, so I will be running a 5.1.4 setup through an Anthem MRX 1120, possibly upgrading to 7.1.4, though not sure I have room for the rears.

I would attach a pic if I could figure out how on my phone
skinnydoggy is online now  
post #8595 of 8610 Unread 07-20-2016, 07:19 PM
Member
 
skinnydoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3f...ew?usp=sharing

Does that work? Room pic, but pretend second couch in front is actually on the left side

I was also told by Revel that I don't need the backboxes, but I have a drop ceiling about 7-7.5 feet high.

Last edited by skinnydoggy; 07-20-2016 at 07:54 PM.
skinnydoggy is online now  
post #8596 of 8610 Unread 07-20-2016, 07:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly40 View Post
So I have the Salon 2 with an MC452 amp....

As we all know, the Salons are not a very efficient speaker.....

So when I get up to volume, the power guard lights on the amp will flash occasionally......

Is this that bad if they flash occasionally, or should I back up the volume a decibel or two, so they don't flash anymore ?

Maybe I need to look at an amp with some more power......

Shelly
I have a 452 driving my Salon 2s. The PowerGuard light indicates that the amplifier is limiting the output to keep distortion under 1 percent. It is SOP for the light to flash on peaks that the circuit predicts will exceed 1 percent distortion since the job of the circuit is to clamp down on the output and limit passing any distortion. As a result your amp can't be driven into hard clipping. The light is telling you that you are out of gas and it won't deliver any more juice because that would drive the amplifier into distortion above that limit. In conjunction with the autoformer, which will not pass DC, it is one stable unit and exceptionally safe as a result. Big power supply, this is a high current power amp. Power Guard is a good feature and works seamlessly just as McIntosh claims. I hear no pumping or any limiter/compression artifacts on the few occasions I've seen mine flash.

However, if you are seeing the light flash on peaks and are not satisfied that it is playing loud enough then you need more power. In my system, the light comes on when (speaking loosely) the SPL at my seated listening position is 100 dB broadband (plus or minus when/if there is a lot of bass content) with peaks of 115-118 dB.

I don't often push it quite that hard as my system doesn't sound as good at those levels as it does backed off a few dB in my room. The Mc is rated to deliver 450 watts at any impedance with 1,8dB of dynamic headroom. In practice, it will deliver in excess of 500 watts RMS with about 2 dB of dynamic headroom.

If it were me, and some day it could be, I would consider bi-amping with another 452 because I love the way the system sounds within the limits I just detailed. It's a great amp. YMMV.
RichB likes this.

Last edited by Lindy's lad; 07-20-2016 at 08:03 PM.
Lindy's lad is offline  
post #8597 of 8610 Unread 07-20-2016, 08:47 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Revel Concerta 2 F36

Hello guys, I am a newbie in this forum. Just wonder if there is anyone out here with the same speakers as mine and would like to share their tips on setting up their F36s. What kind of speaker cables are you guys using? I am currently using the Kimber 8TC. I noticed that the F36 won't take a regular banana plug connection and also the spade connection (6mm). Not sure if Revel want us to use bare wires when they designed these speakers. What do you guys think?
a25105 is offline  
post #8598 of 8610 Unread Yesterday, 08:07 AM
Senior Member
 
bigguyca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 308
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by a25105 View Post
Hello guys, I am a newbie in this forum. Just wonder if there is anyone out here with the same speakers as mine and would like to share their tips on setting up their F36s. What kind of speaker cables are you guys using? I am currently using the Kimber 8TC. I noticed that the F36 won't take a regular banana plug connection and also the spade connection (6mm). Not sure if Revel want us to use bare wires when they designed these speakers. What do you guys think?
The specifications for the F36 on Revel's website state that the product has 5-way binding posts. Pictures of the rear of the F36 appear to show Revel's typical binding posts that take banana plugs among other connections. It would be surprising if the F36 didn't take banana plugs.

Many Revel manuals contain recommendations for speaker wire sizes. The Concerta2 manuals appear to lack recommendations. The recommendations are based on the total resistance of the speaker wire being less than .07 ohms. Here are a few of the maximum wire runs from the Salon2 (same in Performa3 F208 manual) manual: #10 - 34 feet, #12 - 22 feet, #14 - 14 feet. Any twisted speaker wire wire should be good. Blue Jeans Cable and Monoprice, among other sources, sell this product at reasonable prices. If the Kimber product falls in this range for your installation then it should be fine.

Lamp cord or zip cord, that is wire where the two conductors are not twisted together along their length, should be avoided.

bigguyca is offline  
post #8599 of 8610 Unread Yesterday, 11:05 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 2
[/quote]
big thanks to you bigguyca! I also emailed John Schuermann and he said the binding posts on the F36 are not as good as the ones on the Performa series. They just won't take the standard banana plugs or 6mm spade connectors. John recommended to use bare wires. I think the audio industry needs to standardize these things, it's basic stuff

BTW, are you a F36 owner?
a25105 is offline  
post #8600 of 8610 Unread Yesterday, 03:10 PM
Senior Member
 
bigguyca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 308
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Liked: 139
big thanks to you bigguyca! I also emailed John Schuermann and he said the binding posts on the F36 are not as good as the ones on the Performa series. They just won't take the standard banana plugs or 6mm spade connectors. John recommended to use bare wires. I think the audio industry needs to standardize these things, it's basic stuff

BTW, are you a F36 owner?[/QUOTE]

Salon2 owner. I've liked all the Revels I've heard (owned or given as gifts) including the Salon1, both Voices, Performa3 208 and S206, and the first generation Concerta F12 tower.

I've not seen or heard an F36 and I haven't seen any measurements. The F36 is a 2 1/2-way speaker. Normally Revel has produced 3 and 4-way towers for a variety of good reasons. Normally 2 1/2-way speakers such as those from PSB, Polk, etc., are designed with cost in mind, and of course the Concerta line is the least expensive line of Revels. The center channel in the Concerta series is a 2-way, which is another departure. The horizontal axis response of 2-way centers usually suffers from a lot of combing effect. I hope to read more about the F36 and hear a pair. Frankly the new Concerta2 series is the first series of Revels that haven't appealed to me based on their design; of course, Revel knows far (far, far) more about designing speakers than I do.
bigguyca is offline  
post #8601 of 8610 Unread Yesterday, 04:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
John Schuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 450 Post(s)
Liked: 505
My mistake - the F36 DO have 5 way binding posts. Pulled out my M16s and they have a plug in the center of the binding post that can be removed easily by just unscrewing the end cap all the way (evidently the plug is required by the EU). That's why the bananas wouldn't go in.

Checked with Revel and they should accept standard sized spades as well. There are some odd side spade connectors out there, so depending they may not fit.

So, I was wrong - the Concerta2 connectors are the same as the Performas in terms of versatility. Sorry - pure laziness on my part not to take my own set apart before now.

As penance, here are the official Spin-o-rama graphs on the Concerta F36, F35. and C25 - now you do have measurements! For anyone unfamiliar with Revel Spinorama graphs, please see my primer below.

F36



F35



C25:



HARMAN Spin-o-rama Explanation

On-axis Response - This represents the direct sound heard by a single listener sitting on the design axis of the loudspeaker. A flat frequency response is an absolute requirement for all electronic devices. Therefore, it is not surprising that loudspeakers with a flat on-axis frequency response have a higher probability of being preferred in double-blind listening tests.

Listening Window - The well-designed loudspeaker should deliver good sound to a group of listeners -- not just the person sitting on-axis. The listening window is the average frequency response measured for listeners sitting on and slightly off the reference axis of the loudspeaker. Loudspeakers that receive high sound quality ratings in double-blind listening tests tend to have listening windows with a flat frequency response.

First, or Early Reflections -- Most of the sound we hear is reflected in rooms. The second loudest sound (after the direct sound) is the first reflected sound produced from the loudspeaker. Therefore, it is paramount that the sounds radiated by the loudspeaker in the off-axis directions generate early reflections that sound good. The shape of this curve should not differ greatly from the on-axis response curve.

Sound Power Response - This is a measure of the total sound radiated by the loudspeaker without regard to the direction in which it is radiated. The shape should be smooth and slightly downward tilting.

Sound Power and First Reflection Directivity Indices - These directivity indices tell us how the directivity of the loudspeaker changes as a function of frequency. At low frequencies most loudspeakers radiate sound omni-directionally (DI = 0 dB), where wavelengths are long. In forward-firing, 2-way and 3-way loudspeakers, as wavelengths get shorter, frequencies get higher, and more of the sound is radiated towards the front. The goal is to have this trend develop smoothly and gradually. These curves describe very good behavior.
avkv likes this.

John Schuermann
www.thescreeningroomav.com Home Theater Design john@thescreeningroomav.com
JS Music and Sound Post Production Audio / Original Music for Film and Video
Check out my new movie!: www.stephensonmovie.com

Last edited by John Schuermann; Yesterday at 04:31 PM.
John Schuermann is offline  
post #8602 of 8610 Unread Yesterday, 04:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
John Schuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 450 Post(s)
Liked: 505
Here is the Concerta2 series video as well:

avkv likes this.

John Schuermann
www.thescreeningroomav.com Home Theater Design john@thescreeningroomav.com
JS Music and Sound Post Production Audio / Original Music for Film and Video
Check out my new movie!: www.stephensonmovie.com
John Schuermann is offline  
post #8603 of 8610 Unread Yesterday, 07:39 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
My mistake - the F36 DO have 5 way binding posts. Pulled out my M16s and they have a plug in the center of the binding post that can be removed easily by just unscrewing the end cap all the way (evidently the plug is required by the EU). That's why the bananas wouldn't go in.

Checked with Revel and they should accept standard sized spades as well. There are some odd side spade connectors out there, so depending they may not fit.

So, I was wrong - the Concerta2 connectors are the same as the Performas in terms of versatility. Sorry - pure laziness on my part not to take my own set apart before now.

As penance, here are the official Spin-o-rama graphs on the Concerta F36, F35. and C25 - now you do have measurements! For anyone unfamiliar with Revel Spinorama graphs, please see my primer below.

F36



F35



C25:



HARMAN Spin-o-rama Explanation

On-axis Response - This represents the direct sound heard by a single listener sitting on the design axis of the loudspeaker. A flat frequency response is an absolute requirement for all electronic devices. Therefore, it is not surprising that loudspeakers with a flat on-axis frequency response have a higher probability of being preferred in double-blind listening tests.

Listening Window - The well-designed loudspeaker should deliver good sound to a group of listeners -- not just the person sitting on-axis. The listening window is the average frequency response measured for listeners sitting on and slightly off the reference axis of the loudspeaker. Loudspeakers that receive high sound quality ratings in double-blind listening tests tend to have listening windows with a flat frequency response.

First, or Early Reflections -- Most of the sound we hear is reflected in rooms. The second loudest sound (after the direct sound) is the first reflected sound produced from the loudspeaker. Therefore, it is paramount that the sounds radiated by the loudspeaker in the off-axis directions generate early reflections that sound good. The shape of this curve should not differ greatly from the on-axis response curve.

Sound Power Response - This is a measure of the total sound radiated by the loudspeaker without regard to the direction in which it is radiated. The shape should be smooth and slightly downward tilting.

Sound Power and First Reflection Directivity Indices - These directivity indices tell us how the directivity of the loudspeaker changes as a function of frequency. At low frequencies most loudspeakers radiate sound omni-directionally (DI = 0 dB), where wavelengths are long. In forward-firing, 2-way and 3-way loudspeakers, as wavelengths get shorter, frequencies get higher, and more of the sound is radiated towards the front. The goal is to have this trend develop smoothly and gradually. These curves describe very good behavior.
Hi John,

Thanks for checking with Revel. I followed your instructions and was able to connect my cables to the speakers using the standard banana plugs. Revel really should put this in the user manual.

I just returned my new speaker cables with the spade connectors so I am not able to test that again. Does anyone know if your Revel speakers will accept the 6mm spade connector? I was told by the speaker cable dealer that I need the 9mm spade connector for my F36.

Just want to mention John had helped me so much even before I purchased the F36 from him. I just don't think even my local dealers can provide the kind of help that John does in this forum. Anyone who is interested to purchase Revel speakers should definitely consider John first. His customer service is simply outstanding! Strongly recommended!
a25105 is offline  
post #8604 of 8610 Unread Yesterday, 09:55 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
big thanks to you bigguyca! I also emailed John Schuermann and he said the binding posts on the F36 are not as good as the ones on the Performa series. They just won't take the standard banana plugs or 6mm spade connectors. John recommended to use bare wires. I think the audio industry needs to standardize these things, it's basic stuff

BTW, are you a F36 owner?
Salon2 owner. I've liked all the Revels I've heard (owned or given as gifts) including the Salon1, both Voices, Performa3 208 and S206, and the first generation Concerta F12 tower.

I've not seen or heard an F36 and I haven't seen any measurements. The F36 is a 2 1/2-way speaker. Normally Revel has produced 3 and 4-way towers for a variety of good reasons. Normally 2 1/2-way speakers such as those from PSB, Polk, etc., are designed with cost in mind, and of course the Concerta line is the least expensive line of Revels. The center channel in the Concerta series is a 2-way, which is another departure. The horizontal axis response of 2-way centers usually suffers from a lot of combing effect. I hope to read more about the F36 and hear a pair. Frankly the new Concerta2 series is the first series of Revels that haven't appealed to me based on their design; of course, Revel knows far (far, far) more about designing speakers than I do.[/QUOTE]
I like my F36 so far and will probably write up a review here once I settle down. I first heard them at the show for less than 5 mins and my first impression was very good. I also heard the ELAC speakers by Andrew Jones at the show and was so impressed. Bought a pair of the UF5 and returned them right away due to quality control issues. Seller promised to ship another pair but I turned to Revel because they are better built. I was trying to decide between the F208 and the F36. Heard the F208 at a local dealer with hi-end gears, however, they did not have the F36 for audition. I thought the F208 was too big for my room and I bought the F36 without audition first after I chatted with John S via email. I was impressed with the built quality when I started unpacking the speakers. Revel shipped each speaker with 3 boxes and the finish is just gorgeous. I would say it is the best in its class. I don't think you can find better looking speakers in this price range.

I will talk about the setup and the sound signature on my upcoming review. To be continued....
John Schuermann likes this.
a25105 is offline  
post #8605 of 8610 Unread Today, 07:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe, Croatia
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Oddly enough, I don't like the look of any Revel floorstanding speakers except for Salon2s
But despite that I like the look of M106, which is basically bookshelf version of F206.

Revel Ultima Salon 2, Revel M106, Revel C208, Yamaha P5000S, Denon X5200, Panasonic 65" VT50, SVS PC13-Ultra
Kef LS50, Parasound New Classic, Focusrite 2i2
donktard is online now  
post #8606 of 8610 Unread Today, 05:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
Posts: 5,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Re: MAC MC452 running out of gas.
As usual late to the party, but my God.
One question no one has asked is how loud are you cranking your system?
Is your house coming off the foundation?
Another one is, what's the rest of your system gear and the size of your room?
Is the MAC plugged into a dedicated 20 amp circuit?
An amp this powerful deserves that. Maybe it's starved for power.

Maybe I'm missing something but an amp rated at 450 wpc going into protection mode, no matter what speakers you're driving, just seems whacked.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is online now  
post #8607 of 8610 Unread Today, 05:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
laserjock II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Texas Coast
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 524 Post(s)
Liked: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Re: MAC MC452 running out of gas.
As usual late to the party, but my God.
One question no one has asked is how loud are you cranking your system?
Is your house coming off the foundation?
Another one is, what's the rest of your system gear and the size of your room?
Is the MAC plugged into a dedicated 20 amp circuit?
An amp this powerful deserves that. Maybe it's starved for power.

Maybe I'm missing something but an amp rated at 450 wpc going into protection mode, no matter what speakers you're driving, just seems whacked.
Yeah, huge space or something wrong is what I'm thinking.

What's your speaker wire run distance?

Tighten those up best you can and make sure they're properly gauged for the distance.
laserjock II is online now  
post #8608 of 8610 Unread Today, 06:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe, Croatia
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Maybe I'm missing something but an amp rated at 450 wpc going into protection mode, no matter what speakers you're driving, just seems whacked.
So what are you driving? And what are you listening?

Revel Ultima Salon 2, Revel M106, Revel C208, Yamaha P5000S, Denon X5200, Panasonic 65" VT50, SVS PC13-Ultra
Kef LS50, Parasound New Classic, Focusrite 2i2
donktard is online now  
post #8609 of 8610 Unread Today, 07:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
Posts: 5,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked: 197
My gear is in my profile.
Although my living room is torn down to the studs, it was and will be:
Oppo 105
Anthem D2
Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks
Revel Studio2s
All balanced interconnects.
Happy?

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is online now  
post #8610 of 8610 Unread Today, 08:39 PM
Member
 
avkv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Revel Architectural Loudspeaker choice and locations

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
Wow, you guys are good. I bought my Revels originally at Star Electronics in Etobicoke (Toronto area). They don't seem to carry Revel anymore? I have also been to Electronic Depot, but they are nowhere near me, seems their prices are out to lunch too... cheaper to import them by over 60%-70%, not even kidding.

My room is approximately 14x14, open staircase, carpet, plastic divider (which my listening couch is near).

I have 2 F12's a C12, 2 S12's, so I will be running a 5.1.4 setup through an Anthem MRX 1120, possibly upgrading to 7.1.4, though not sure I have room for the rears.

I would attach a pic if I could figure out how on my phone


Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3f...ew?usp=sharing

Does that work? Room pic, but pretend second couch in front is actually on the left side

I was also told by Revel that I don't need the backboxes, but I have a drop ceiling about 7-7.5 feet high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
First off, in regard to the in-ceilings. With a drop ceiling, yes, you would want to use a back box. Also, I know that you are trying to keep the price down, but if you are looking at such a wide span of speakers, I would encourage you again to look at the C763L, which is specifically ATMOS certified and comes with its own backbox (as I think I mentioned before, about 90% of Blu-ray mixes are mastered using the C763L as the heights). Standard in-ceiling speakers have directional, resonance and diffractional issues when pressed into ATMOS use, while the C763L has a flat diaphragm woofer and two midrange drivers to overcome this issue. Revel designer Kevin Voecks speaks directly to these issues at 52:02 into this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4lA0cO87OE#t=3211

In regard to your room drawing, it actually looks quite good The surrounds are in a good location (provided you dial in the distances and levels properly from the main listening position) as are the ATMOS speakers (just about identical to my own personal setup). I would bring the surround speakers lower - with ATMOS, you want the surrounds to be slightly above ear level when seated.

Keep in mind with ATMOS you are trying to create a "dome" of sound, so it makes sense that the front and rear speakers be closer to ear level while the overhead speakers give you your sense of height.

Hope this helps! Feel free to contact me directly if you like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
Wow, you guys are good. I bought my Revels originally at Star Electronics in Etobicoke (Toronto area). They don't seem to carry Revel anymore? I have also been to Electronic Depot, but they are nowhere near me, seems their prices are out to lunch too... cheaper to import them by over 60%-70%, not even kidding.

My room is approximately 14x14, open staircase, carpet, plastic divider (which my listening couch is near).

I have 2 F12's a C12, 2 S12's, so I will be running a 5.1.4 setup through an Anthem MRX 1120, possibly upgrading to 7.1.4, though not sure I have room for the rears.

I would attach a pic if I could figure out how on my phone
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3f...ew?usp=sharing

Does that work? Room pic, but pretend second couch in front is actually on the left side

I was also told by Revel that I don't need the backboxes, but I have a drop ceiling about 7-7.5 feet high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by avkv View Post
Skinnydoggy,

I am sorry you have had difficulties finding Revel architectural speakers in Canada. They should be readily available. I am inquiring with our Canadian colleagues to see why there is an issue. I have sent you a PM asking for your location.

Please explain your exact application, including their approximate locations within your room, the room dimensions, and the associated equipment to help in making a recommendation.

The attached doc indicates the differences between the various series.

Best regards,
Kevin Voecks
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
Wow, you guys are good. I bought my Revels originally at Star Electronics in Etobicoke (Toronto area). They don't seem to carry Revel anymore? I have also been to Electronic Depot, but they are nowhere near me, seems their prices are out to lunch too... cheaper to import them by over 60%-70%, not even kidding.

My room is approximately 14x14, open staircase, carpet, plastic divider (which my listening couch is near).

I have 2 F12's a C12, 2 S12's, so I will be running a 5.1.4 setup through an Anthem MRX 1120, possibly upgrading to 7.1.4, though not sure I have room for the rears.

I would attach a pic if I could figure out how on my phone
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3f...ew?usp=sharing

Does that work? Room pic, but pretend second couch in front is actually on the left side

I was also told by Revel that I don't need the backboxes, but I have a drop ceiling about 7-7.5 feet high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
sorry to hijack the stuff I will never be able to afford conversation LOL, but does anyone know the difference between the Revel C263, C363, C563 and C763? I spoke with Revel, even they didn't seem sure haha

Has anyone heard these things (other than the c763L's)? They seem to not actually exist in Canada, so looks like I need to get murdered by exchange/shipping/duties and order them from the US (likely from John? Not sure what the post above is alluding to? John = good I think?).

Revel did tell me that my room is small enough not to notice the effect of the C763L, but still unsure which one matches my lowly Revel Concerta 1's. I assume a 3 way ceiling speaker to match my F12's? Apparently there are few dealers in Ontario, and the one I spoke with wouldn't give me a quote and sort of fluffed me off... not too impressed by Revel's dealer network and availability. It's not like I live in an igloo and have a dogsled

End of rant, sorry guys
Skinnydoggy,

Thank you for the room layout. Perhaps it is easiest to start with the speaker selection. Since you will not be very far off-axis, I recommend 8-inch in-ceiling speakers. You can choose from the C583 or C783. In your message accompanying your drawing, you note that the couch that is farthest-out into the room isn't actually there. You will get far better results the farther away you place the couch from the rear wall. That is of course even true for two-channel audio, due to both reflections and boundary interference. But with 3D/Immersive Audio, it becomes even more valuable. I would also move everything a bit toward the stairs, and pull the front speakers out from the front wall if possible. The (side) horizontal surrounds should be roughly to the sides of your primary listening area. Since you do not have rears, you may wish to put them ~10 degrees behind you. The heights can be a bit farther-apart than the front speakers, but most importantly, I would place the Ltf/Rtf around 15 degrees forward of your listening position, and the Ltr and Rtr about 15 degrees behind your listening position. Enjoy,

Kevin Voecks
avkv is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
Revel



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off