Revel Owners Thread - Page 292 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8731 of 8791 Old 09-03-2016, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven1110 View Post
I have a pair of F208's on the way and I'm considering an external amp to drive them since I'll be running them full range and they have a couple 3ohm dips, and seem to generally average 6ohm. Also, I saw the recommendation of a 150w/ch a few posts back.

I currently have a Marantz SR6007 receiver. Speakers will be in a space that's roughly 14x14 with cathedral ceiling...roughly 2k C.f. It also is fairly open to the dining and kitchen adding another 2.5k C.f.

I typically listen at moderate levels, probably around 75-80dB, but would occasionally push 90. Seating is 10' from speakers.

Amps I'm considering are Outlaw audio 2200's or 5000(could bi-amp or drive other speakers), used Parasound A23, or an Emotive A300 or A500.

Do any of those stand out above the others for my setup or do you have other recommendations?

I don't have those speaker but I am pleased with the results bi-amping the Salon2's, so I am in favor of that.
I am not a fan of the class-G 2200's which I felt sounded harsh driving the F206's. So that is the only choice I would not recommend.

Also, consider the ATI built Outlaw 7125, I received a special offer email which was something like $100 off.
The Outlaw 5000 and Emotiva A500 are good options as well.

If you want to go higher end, then ATI4000 series 4 channel amp is another good option. You'll need to contact a dealer for discounts or goto ClassicAudioParts.com.

- Rich
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post #8732 of 8791 Old 09-04-2016, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven1110 View Post
I have a pair of F208's on the way and I'm considering an external amp to drive them since I'll be running them full range and they have a couple 3ohm dips, and seem to generally average 6ohm. Also, I saw the recommendation of a 150w/ch a few posts back.

I currently have a Marantz SR6007 receiver. Speakers will be in a space that's roughly 14x14 with cathedral ceiling...roughly 2k C.f. It also is fairly open to the dining and kitchen adding another 2.5k C.f.

I typically listen at moderate levels, probably around 75-80dB, but would occasionally push 90. Seating is 10' from speakers.

Amps I'm considering are Outlaw audio 2200's or 5000(could bi-amp or drive other speakers), used Parasound A23, or an Emotive A300 or A500.

Do any of those stand out above the others for my setup or do you have other recommendations?
Hello Steven
Go for the parasaound or the Emotiva.
75 - 80db is not precisely moderate

I have the F208 and a Emotiva 2ch, and sound is clean and crisp.
Before the Emotiva I used a Harman Kardon 6550 and was OK.
The F208s are really good speakers
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post #8733 of 8791 Old 09-04-2016, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aracGuate View Post
Hello Steven
Go for the parasaound or the Emotiva.
75 - 80db is not precisely moderate

I have the F208 and a Emotiva 2ch, and sound is clean and crisp.
Before the Emotiva I used a Harman Kardon 6550 and was OK.
The F208s are really good speakers
I recently purchased a Parasound A31 in advance of getting the 208's as it was an extremely good deal. It replaced a BK Ref 200.2 and all I can say is that I am beyond satisfied with it. Exceptionally clear, very powerful and runs very cool, I could no be more pleased with the amp. Now I simply have to wait for the 208's until our new home is built.
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post #8734 of 8791 Old 09-04-2016, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven1110 View Post
I have a pair of F208's on the way and I'm considering an external amp to drive them since I'll be running them full range and they have a couple 3ohm dips, and seem to generally average 6ohm. Also, I saw the recommendation of a 150w/ch a few posts back.

I currently have a Marantz SR6007 receiver. Speakers will be in a space that's roughly 14x14 with cathedral ceiling...roughly 2k C.f. It also is fairly open to the dining and kitchen adding another 2.5k C.f.

I typically listen at moderate levels, probably around 75-80dB, but would occasionally push 90. Seating is 10' from speakers.

Amps I'm considering are Outlaw audio 2200's or 5000(could bi-amp or drive other speakers), used Parasound A23, or an Emotive A300 or A500.

Do any of those stand out above the others for my setup or do you have other recommendations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I don't have those speaker but I am pleased with the results bi-amping the Salon2's, so I am in favor of that.
I am not a fan of the class-G 2200's which I felt sounded harsh driving the F206's. So that is the only choice I would not recommend.

Also, consider the ATI built Outlaw 7125, I received a special offer email which was something like $100 off.
The Outlaw 5000 and Emotiva A500 are good options as well.

If you want to go higher end, then ATI4000 series 4 channel amp is another good option. You'll need to contact a dealer for discounts or goto ClassicAudioParts.com.

- Rich
My son currently drives Revel F208's (bi-amp) with an Outlaw Model 7125 in a two channel system that is used for audio and video. The system sounds good, but with small children in the house, isn't used at high levels or for critical listening. That is, it's loafing along. The amplifier has been in use for almost 10-years, first driving previous sets of speakers, with no problems.

The Model 7125 represents a lot of performance at a low cost. It has ATI's typical circuitry including a hefty power transformer and overall power supply, and lots of output transistors. Outlaw is unfortunately discontinuing the Model 7125. The amplifiers are being closed out now at discount prices. At the price, the Model 7125 is a great value and a very good performer.

At a different price level the Benchmark Media AHB2 is a truly excellent unit with the lowest distortion and noise available. Driving Salon2's it provides truly excellent performance in what is a critical listening environment.
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post #8735 of 8791 Old 09-04-2016, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Sedlack View Post
I recently purchased a Parasound A31 in advance of getting the 208's as it was an extremely good deal. It replaced a BK Ref 200.2 and all I can say is that I am beyond satisfied with it. Exceptionally clear, very powerful and runs very cool, I could no be more pleased with the amp. Now I simply have to wait for the 208's until our new home is built.
Is there something lacking with the B&K?
I have a B&K 7250 Ref 2 amp but haven't used it in any setup yet.

Was thinking about a front stage of F208's and C208 using this amp.

I've been fairly satisfied with the Denon 4520 running my speakers in a 5.1 system but will relegate it to side surround duty only once I get the Revels.
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post #8736 of 8791 Old 09-04-2016, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
My son currently drives Revel F208's (bi-amp) with an Outlaw Model 7125 in a two channel system that is used for audio and video. The system sounds good, but with small children in the house, isn't used at high levels or for critical listening. That is, it's loafing along. The amplifier has been in use for almost 10-years, first driving previous sets of speakers, with no problems.

The Model 7125 represents a lot of performance at a low cost. It has ATI's typical circuitry including a hefty power transformer and overall power supply, and lots of output transistors. Outlaw is unfortunately discontinuing the Model 7125. The amplifiers are being closed out now at discount prices. At the price, the Model 7125 is a great value and a very good performer.

At a different price level the Benchmark Media AHB2 is a truly excellent unit with the lowest distortion and noise available. Driving Salon2's it provides truly excellent performance in what is a critical listening environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Sedlack View Post
I recently purchased a Parasound A31 in advance of getting the 208's as it was an extremely good deal. It replaced a BK Ref 200.2 and all I can say is that I am beyond satisfied with it. Exceptionally clear, very powerful and runs very cool, I could no be more pleased with the amp. Now I simply have to wait for the 208's until our new home is built.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aracGuate View Post
Hello Steven
Go for the parasaound or the Emotiva.
75 - 80db is not precisely moderate

I have the F208 and a Emotiva 2ch, and sound is clean and crisp.
Before the Emotiva I used a Harman Kardon 6550 and was OK.
The F208s are really good speakers
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I don't have those speaker but I am pleased with the results bi-amping the Salon2's, so I am in favor of that.
I am not a fan of the class-G 2200's which I felt sounded harsh driving the F206's. So that is the only choice I would not recommend.

Also, consider the ATI built Outlaw 7125, I received a special offer email which was something like $100 off.
The Outlaw 5000 and Emotiva A500 are good options as well.

If you want to go higher end, then ATI4000 series 4 channel amp is another good option. You'll need to contact a dealer for discounts or goto ClassicAudioParts.com.

- Rich
Thanks for the suggestions! Right now I'm still leaning towards a used parasound A23 or new Outlaw 5000, but Emotive is still tempting due to their current sale and the outlaw 7125 as well. I was hoping to keep it to around $600 though so I know that limits things quite a bit.
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post #8737 of 8791 Old 09-05-2016, 09:14 AM
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Not many comparisons on the F35's. Anybody running these? Comparison to Ascend Sierra 1/2 bookshelf speakers? Same price as Sierra 2's.
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post #8738 of 8791 Old 09-05-2016, 11:27 AM
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Not many comparisons on the F35's. Anybody running these? Comparison to Ascend Sierra 1/2 bookshelf speakers? Same price as Sierra 2's.


I'd also be interests in such a comparison.


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post #8739 of 8791 Old 09-05-2016, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Is there something lacking with the B&K?
I have a B&K 7250 Ref 2 amp but haven't used it in any setup yet.

Was thinking about a front stage of F208's and C208 using this amp.

I've been fairly satisfied with the Denon 4520 running my speakers in a 5.1 system but will relegate it to side surround duty only once I get the Revels.
Nothing lacking with the B&K, there was an extremely good price on the Parasound and it was on my short list for the new home and new room we are building as I wanted a 3 channel for the fronts. I jumped on it now because of the good price and pulled the B&K out of my system, it will be used in the new home for Atmos. That being said it does have more power than the B&K, it is every bit as well built just a lot bigger and heavier. I have used the B&K since 2005 with no problems. The B&K has been dependable and I hope it stays that way when I re-insert it into the new set up. It was company, to bad they went out of business.
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post #8740 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
I'd also be interests in such a comparison.

I guess I'll find out this week first hand. Another forum member has allowed me to audition some Sierra 1's and Sierra 2's in my home for the next few days - extremely generous! I asked about the Revel's because a pair of new in box F35's popped up in a local ad. I am buying them this afternoon at a large enough discount to justify at least giving them a try for a while... Before this, I have been using an old pair of Baby Advents that I have had since junior high along with a velodyne cht-10 sub that I found used locally. I found that I have been using the velodyne with both sets of Sierra's to help fill in the bottom end. The rest of the FR has been amazing! I am extremely curious to hear how the Revel's do full range, although I suspect that they will require the assistance of a sub as well, looking at the specs.


They will be in my home office for music only. I have my receiver set up to do some A/B listening and have been running FR as well as with sub. I'll probably only compare the Sierra 2's with the F35, that ribbon tweeter is amazing, and I'm suspecting that they will be superior to the F35's tweeter.


For movies, my media room down the hall is running JTR 8ht-lp's up front along with quad psa xs30's.
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post #8741 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven1110 View Post
I have a pair of F208's on the way and I'm considering an external amp to drive them since I'll be running them full range and they have a couple 3ohm dips, and seem to generally average 6ohm. Also, I saw the recommendation of a 150w/ch a few posts back.

I currently have a Marantz SR6007 receiver. Speakers will be in a space that's roughly 14x14 with cathedral ceiling...roughly 2k C.f. It also is fairly open to the dining and kitchen adding another 2.5k C.f.

I typically listen at moderate levels, probably around 75-80dB, but would occasionally push 90. Seating is 10' from speakers.

Amps I'm considering are Outlaw audio 2200's or 5000(could bi-amp or drive other speakers), used Parasound A23, or an Emotive A300 or A500.

Do any of those stand out above the others for my setup or do you have other recommendations?
Any of those amps should do the trick. We've been pairing the F208s with the Emotiva XPA3 for LCR and it seems to be a good matchup. I would just compare specs carefully and check the reviews to make sure that the amps are putting out what they are rated for. FWIW, I'm not a believer in audible differences between amps unless they are being pushed outside their operational limits (or are simply non-linear to begin with, i.e. poor design).

Good luck!

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post #8742 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskurfer View Post
Not many comparisons on the F35's. Anybody running these? Comparison to Ascend Sierra 1/2 bookshelf speakers? Same price as Sierra 2's.
I am running the F35s as rear surrounds in my demo theater and bring them up front for main channel demos all the time. They are a pretty extraordinary speaker for the price. I wrote about our comparisons with the F36 vs. the JBL LSR708 reference monitor in several posts starting here:

Revel Owners Thread

If you scroll up from that post, you can see the conditions of the listening tests and learn more about it. We were comparing the JBL M2 reference monitor to the LSR708 reference monitors, then the 708s to the Revels. In case you are not familiar, the JBL M2 / 708 are in a great many mastering stages in L.A. and around the world and have rapidly become the "go to" speaker for critical listening rooms. We were curious how the Revel would do against the JBLs, as Harman is the parent company of both brands and much of the same R&D goes into both speaker lines. If interested, check out the posts I linked to above.

Haven't heard the F36 or F35 side by side with the Sierras, but I can't imagine the Sierra would outperform it. FWIW, the F35 and F36 match almost perfectly timbrally - they only really differ in how low they will go and how loud they will play. More in a minute in response to your other post...

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post #8743 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskurfer View Post
I guess I'll find out this week first hand. Another forum member has allowed me to audition some Sierra 1's and Sierra 2's in my home for the next few days - extremely generous! I asked about the Revel's because a pair of new in box F35's popped up in a local ad. I am buying them this afternoon at a large enough discount to justify at least giving them a try for a while... Before this, I have been using an old pair of Baby Advents that I have had since junior high along with a velodyne cht-10 sub that I found used locally. I found that I have been using the velodyne with both sets of Sierra's to help fill in the bottom end. The rest of the FR has been amazing! I am extremely curious to hear how the Revel's do full range, although I suspect that they will require the assistance of a sub as well, looking at the specs.

They will be in my home office for music only. I have my receiver set up to do some A/B listening and have been running FR as well as with sub. I'll probably only compare the Sierra 2's with the F35, that ribbon tweeter is amazing, and I'm suspecting that they will be superior to the F35's tweeter.

For movies, my media room down the hall is running JTR 8ht-lp's up front along with quad psa xs30's.
Should be a fun test If you can, do the listening tests blind after carefully volume matching the speakers. That last is critical, as the louder speaker almost always "wins" a listening test. It's also important to equalize room placement, as whichever speaker is closer to a wall or boundary will pick up a bass boost. Decades of research shows that sighted comparisons are inherently flawed, so it's best not to know which speaker is playing at any given time.

FWIW, the market has been flooded recently with ribbon tweeter designs. The reason? The patent on the design has run out. Like any other driver design, there are pros and cons. The research at Harman shows that flat and even on-axis response - combined with flat and even off-axis response - is the key to winning double blind listening tests. What the tweeter is made out of - or what design the manufacturer is using - is far less important in the overall scheme of things, as long as the design can meet that criteria.

Harman uses both compression drivers (JBL) and dome tweeters (Revel and JBL) in their designs. They have also experimented with other driver types, as Kevin Voecks discussed in this interview with HomeTheaterHiFi:

In fact, that's the only thing Dr. Harman said at the inception of the company - “Make the world's best loudspeakers.” No restrictions on the kind of technology. For example, if we had decided that electrostatics were best, even though that's a completely different kind of technology than you've seen in the Harman loudspeaker brands. There were absolutely no restrictions. We determined with double blind listening tests and engineering research that dynamic loudspeakers although refined, in numerous ways, make for the most accurate loudspeakers.


You can read the full interview here, if you like:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11...ks-4-2004.html

More in a bit (trying to be less wordy per post, lol).

John Schuermann
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post #8744 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
I am running the F35s as rear surrounds in my demo theater and bring them up front for main channel demos all the time. They are a pretty extraordinary speaker for the price. I wrote about our comparisons with the F36 vs. the JBL LSR708 reference monitor in several posts starting here:

Revel Owners Thread

If you scroll up from that post, you can see the conditions of the listening tests and learn more about it. We were comparing the JBL M2 reference monitor to the LSR708 reference monitors, then the 708s to the Revels. In case you are not familiar, the JBL M2 / 708 are in a great many mastering stages in L.A. and around the world and have rapidly become the "go to" speaker for critical listening rooms. We were curious how the Revel would do against the JBLs, as Harman is the parent company of both brands and much of the same R&D goes into both speaker lines. If interested, check out the posts I linked to above.

Haven't heard the F36 or F35 side by side with the Sierras, but I can't imagine the Sierra would outperform it. FWIW, the F35 and F36 match almost perfectly timbrally - they only really differ in how low they will go and how loud they will play. More in a minute in response to your other post...


Thanks John for your input! Much appreciated. I did read your earlier posts, I have never had the opportunity to audition any of the other speakers referenced as a basis, but helps put some context in place.


I'm glad to hear from you on your thoughts on the F36 vs F35. I was curious on that, as I found the same to be true with a pair of Paradigm Studio 60s vs their bigger brother the Studio 100s.
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post #8745 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 02:19 PM
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RE: Revel Concerta vs. Ascend. There are test results of both speakers / brands on www.soundstage.com, conducted at the Canadian NRC's anechoic chamber. However, the tests are a bit outdated, BUT at the same time kind of bear out what I stated above. The speakers tested where the Ascend Sierra 1, and the Revel F12. In this case you have the slightly lower end Sierra going against the previous iteration of the F35, without all the improvements incorporated into the newer Concerta2s (more on that in a moment).

Here is the FR graph of the Sierra 1 (http://www.soundstage.com/measuremen...end_sierra1/):



Here is the Revel F12 (http://www.soundstage.com/measuremen...oncerta_f12/):



Here is the listening window of the Sierra 1:



Here is the Revel F12:



As you can see, the older Revel performs better against the Ascend. Of course, the above does not take into account the Ascend 2's new design, nor do the graphs reflect all the improvements in the Concerta2 (the F12 is the original Concerta).

More on that in a bit - again, lol!

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post #8746 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Should be a fun test If you can, do the listening tests blind after carefully volume matching the speakers. That last is critical, as the louder speaker almost always "wins" a listening test. It's also important to equalize room placement, as whichever speaker is closer to a wall or boundary will pick up a bass boost. Decades of research shows that sighted comparisons are inherently flawed, so it's best not to know which speaker is playing at any given time.

FWIW, the market has been flooded recently with ribbon tweeter designs. The reason? The patent on the design has run out. Like any other driver design, there are pros and cons. The research at Harman shows that flat and even on-axis response - combined with flat and even off-axis response - is the key to winning double blind listening tests. What the tweeter is made out of - or what design the manufacturer is using - is far less important in the overall scheme of things, as long as the design can meet that criteria.

Harman uses both compression drivers (JBL) and dome tweeters (Revel and JBL) in their designs. They have also experimented with other driver types, as Kevin Voecks discussed in this interview with HomeTheaterHiFi:

In fact, that's the only thing Dr. Harman said at the inception of the company - “Make the world's best loudspeakers.” No restrictions on the kind of technology. For example, if we had decided that electrostatics were best, even though that's a completely different kind of technology than you've seen in the Harman loudspeaker brands. There were absolutely no restrictions. We determined with double blind listening tests and engineering research that dynamic loudspeakers although refined, in numerous ways, make for the most accurate loudspeakers.


You can read the full interview here, if you like:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11...ks-4-2004.html

More in a bit (trying to be less wordy per post, lol).


Again, thanks! I do have the gear to ensure equal levels/etc. Placement will be taken into account I will be running some REW sweeps as well. As for the blind tests - I will need to somehow get creative in figuring out how to do this... It may require teaching my wife to run the remote and some training in the receiver settings... But agreed, I hope to somehow make this happen.


Interesting on the ribbon tweeter trend - I hadn't heard that factor on being driven by the patent expiring - but makes sense. My A/B (not blind) testing between the dome/ribbon Sierra speakers this past weekend gave me much higher preference to the ribbon, enough to warrant the premium. They were equally placed, and I can assume db matched, although I did not measure... I will be running that comparison again. In fact, heck, I may as well through my Baby Advents into the mix just for fun. haha. I will not be pulling out my jtr's (compression driver speakers) - they are buried behind my AT screen.
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post #8747 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 02:24 PM
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For reference, here are the improvements made to the Revel Concerta2 series:

Re: F12 vs. F36:

The newly-designed F36 transducers are lower in distortion, have much smoother response, and greater dynamic capabilities.
The F36 is almost 2dB higher in sensitivity.
The F36 low frequency response is “fuller” than the F12—with the F12 drooping slightly below about 120Hz, and is more extended.
The Directivity Index, a measure of how close to optimum is its directivity, or radiation pattern, is much better above 8kHz with the F36.

Since the above references the F36 rather than the F35, I thought I would share the Harman Spin-o-Ramas of the F36 and F35 so you can see how similar they are in response:

F36:



F35:



Hope this helps!

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post #8748 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
RE: Revel Concerta vs. Ascend. There are test results of both speakers / brands on www.soundstage.com, conducted at the Canadian NRC's anechoic chamber. However, the tests are a bit outdated, BUT at the same time kind of bear out what I stated above. The speakers tested where the Ascend Sierra 1, and the Revel F12. In this case you have the slightly lower end Sierra going against the previous iteration of the F35, without all the improvements incorporated into the newer Concerta2s (more on that in a moment).

Here is the FR graph of the Sierra 1 (http://www.soundstage.com/measuremen...end_sierra1/):



**deleted graphs to save on monitor real-estate**

As you can see, the older Revel performs better against the Ascend. Of course, the above does not take into account the Ascend 2's new design, nor do the graphs reflect all the improvements in the Concerta2 (the F12 is the original Concerta).

More on that in a bit - again, lol!


This is great! I can not duplicate these, of course (non-anechoic). I have not been running audyssey or any room correction for my comparisons - so the room will be a factor - which I will try to share.
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post #8749 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 02:31 PM
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Again, thanks! I do have the gear to ensure equal levels/etc. Placement will be taken into account I will be running some REW sweeps as well. As for the blind tests - I will need to somehow get creative in figuring out how to do this... It may require teaching my wife to run the remote and some training in the receiver settings... But agreed, I hope to somehow make this happen.

Interesting on the ribbon tweeter trend - I hadn't heard that factor on being driven by the patent expiring - but makes sense. My A/B (not blind) testing between the dome/ribbon Sierra speakers this past weekend gave me much higher preference to the ribbon, enough to warrant the premium. They were equally placed, and I can assume db matched, although I did not measure... I will be running that comparison again. In fact, heck, I may as well through my Baby Advents into the mix just for fun. haha. I will not be pulling out my jtr's (compression driver speakers) - they are buried behind my AT screen.
Sounds like you have this well in hand And I've never heard the Ascend 2, so can't comment authoritatively on them.

Enjoy!

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post #8750 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Since the above references the F36 rather than the F35, I thought I would share the Harman Spin-o-Ramas of the F36 and F35 so you can see how similar they are in response:



Hope this helps!


For some reason, these images did not come through for me.
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post #8751 of 8791 Old 09-06-2016, 02:36 PM
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For some reason, these images did not come through for me.
Hmmm... I see them on my computer as well as my mobile phone. I've attached them as jpgs here.
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post #8752 of 8791 Old 09-07-2016, 10:16 AM
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I may have posted this before a month or two back, but I have added to the list. Here are a list of extremely well recorded reference tracks that do a great job of demonstrating how well speakers reproduce voices, instrumental lines, dynamics, and a sense of space / ambience. Have to admit to stealing most of these from Harman's playlist (bolded selections are particular favorites):

These Bones - Fairfield Four
Fragments of Time - Daft Punk
The Girl in the Other Room - Diana Krall
Trans-Island Skyway - Donald Fagen (almost anything by Donald Fagen or Steely Dan is a good candidate)
Let's Get it On - Lisa Lovbrand
Spanish Harlem - Rebecca PIdgeon
Fly Like An Eagle - Seal
Coldest Winter - Kanye West
Desafinado - Ana Caram
Isn't She Lovely - Livingston Taylor
Yesterday - The Persuasions
Little Amsterdam - Tori Amos
Planet Dada (Flamboyant) - Yello
Here We Go Again (Ray Charles / Norah Jones)
Welcome to My World (Depeche Mode)

These are excellent tracks to fire up to compare speakers or show off your Revels
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post #8753 of 8791 Old 09-07-2016, 12:10 PM
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No joke, this is tough! They are both amazing speakers, I would be extremely happy with either set (Sierra 2 / F35). I don't want to provide too many thoughts on my direct comparisons just yet, I have had limited time off and on since yesterday afternoon. Ran home over lunch and was able to play a few songs from John's playlist above - excellent recommendations for running demos, thanks again!


High level initial thoughts without giving preference to either just yet: both the Ascends and the Revels have similar perceived extension and do require a sub (sweeps are still pending). John's point on matching the volume levels has been very necessary - I found that I need to adjust 2.5db between the 2, with the Revels being more efficient (although their advertised 1m specs indicate a 3db difference).


I had my wife listen to a few songs just to see if she could pick a favorite (blind tested). First 2 songs, she couldn't tell them apart at all, she thought they were the same speakers both times. After I tried 1 more song with higher vocals, she did give slight preference to the Revels. I'm still indifferent, need time yet, wow this is tough. For some reason I thought the Sierras would be the clear favorites. I'm currently at a tie. The Revels do get the nod on aesthetics, however - they look much much nicer in person than online!


More to come, this will take a while.
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post #8754 of 8791 Old 09-07-2016, 02:18 PM
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Fun to read! It's important to remember that the waveguide and the dispersion pattern are just as important as the tweeter itself
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post #8755 of 8791 Old 09-07-2016, 07:39 PM
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Looks like a mess below 200hz... A consistent mess, at least. I will have to play around with placement, then EQ. This is measured FR on both, no sub. The Revel F35 measures flatter in my room up to 10k Hz, the Sierra 2s appear flatter from 200 Hz to 2k Hz.

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post #8756 of 8791 Old 09-10-2016, 09:32 AM
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Next month I'll be getting a pair of Revel F208s. They will be replacing my B&W CDM 7SEs that were driven with an Acurus 125x5. This amp is supposed to be underrated and closer to 200wpc. It certainly could drive the B&Ws to ear piercing levels with crystal clear clarity. I'm just slightly concerned about the new speakers as they are not as efficient and the amplifier rating for them is higher. I just purchased an Acurus A200 so I'm trying to figure out the best way to set up my system with these two amps. My other speakers are Definitive Tech 8008 center and B&W CDM 1 for surrounds. I would like to make use of all 7 of my amps channels. What do you all think and how should I go about it?

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post #8757 of 8791 Old 09-10-2016, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Ruddy View Post
Next month I'll be getting a pair of Revel F208s. They will be replacing my B&W CDM 7SEs that were driven with an Acurus 125x5. This amp is supposed to be underrated and closer to 200wpc. It certainly could drive the B&Ws to ear piercing levels with crystal clear clarity. I'm just slightly concerned about the new speakers as they are not as efficient and the amplifier rating for them is higher. I just purchased an Acurus A200 so I'm trying to figure out the best way to set up my system with these two amps. My other speakers are Definitive Tech 8008 center and B&W CDM 1 for surrounds. I would like to make use of all 7 of my amps channels. What do you all think and how should I go about it?
You could try bi-amping. If the A200 and 125 have the same gain, you could put the 200 on the woofers and the 125 on the tweeters.
I recommend splitting the signal with a Y connector. A good test at home is to run only one speaker bi-amped and single amped and see if there is a benefit.

I use these stacking/locking bananas since you can just stack the source end when comparing.

http://www.parts-express.com/angled-...insu--091-3608

It is not hard to SBT at home with a friend.

- Rich
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post #8758 of 8791 Old 09-11-2016, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
You could try bi-amping. If the A200 and 125 have the same gain, you could put the 200 on the woofers and the 125 on the tweeters.
I recommend splitting the signal with a Y connector. A good test at home is to run only one speaker bi-amped and single amped and see if there is a benefit.

I use these stacking/locking bananas since you can just stack the source end when comparing.

http://www.parts-express.com/angled-...insu--091-3608

It is not hard to SBT at home with a friend.

- Rich
Thanks Rich I'll do the test. I will need to purchase a pair of y connectors as I think my pre amp only has one set of outs. I'm not sure what I how I would use the banana plugs your mentioned.

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post #8759 of 8791 Old 09-12-2016, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
You could try bi-amping. If the A200 and 125 have the same gain, you could put the 200 on the woofers and the 125 on the tweeters.
I recommend splitting the signal with a Y connector. A good test at home is to run only one speaker bi-amped and single amped and see if there is a benefit.

I use these stacking/locking bananas since you can just stack the source end when comparing.

http://www.parts-express.com/angled-...insu--091-3608

It is not hard to SBT at home with a friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ruddy View Post
Thanks Rich I'll do the test. I will need to purchase a pair of y connectors as I think my pre amp only has one set of outs. I'm not sure what I how I would use the banana plugs your mentioned.
I like the these banana plugs because they are insulated, lock easily by turning the ends, and they can be stacked.

To try bi-amping:
  • remove the connecting straps from the speakers
  • write two sets of wires to the speakers
  • attach the angles bananas to both sets of speakers amp end
It takes seconds to switch one set of speaker wires to one amp channel and using two channels. See attached images.

For a Y connectors:

RCA: https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-U...CA+Y+connector

XLR: https://www.amazon.com/XLR-Cable-Spl...s=XLR+Y+cables

These are a 12 inches which works fine if using a single amp. If you try it with two amps, then you may need to split at the preamp and use two longer cables to span.

- Rich
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post #8760 of 8791 Old 09-12-2016, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I like the these banana plugs because they are insulated, lock easily by turning the ends, and they can be stacked.

To try bi-amping:
  • remove the connecting straps from the speakers
  • write two sets of wires to the speakers
  • attach the angles bananas to both sets of speakers amp end
It takes seconds to switch one set of speaker wires to one amp channel and using two channels. See attached images.

For a Y connectors:

RCA: https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-U...CA+Y+connector

XLR: https://www.amazon.com/XLR-Cable-Spl...s=XLR+Y+cables

These are a 12 inches which works fine if using a single amp. If you try it with two amps, then you may need to split at the preamp and use two longer cables to span.

- Rich
Are you using the same channel of your amp to power both sets of inputs on one speaker with the connecting straps removed?
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