Revel Owners Thread - Page 296 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8851 of 9719 Old 10-16-2016, 06:22 PM
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Glad I found this thread. Some years back, probably 15 or so, I listened to Revel studio with center channel in Lyric Hifi in White Plains, NY, once owned by the famous, now deceased, Michael Kay, along with his flagship store in NYC on Lexington Avenue where I visited many times. I was super impressed by the Revels.

I moved through many brands of speakers over the years, including, over 40 years ago, Fisher 111k, with a Marantz integrated amp, followed by JBLs, Magnepan, etc. About ten years ago I got the big Def Tech towers with built in powered subs. Wow, those were something. Little bright, siblance that drive me nuts at times, but super impressive bass for their time.

Fast forward to 2012 or so and my wife, who is a CPA, began working for Harman in their corporate headquarters in Stamford, Ct. I dreamed for years of owning Mark Levinson amps but just too expensive.

Well, she tells me one day she can get employee pricing on certain items.

Shortly thereafter I was, and am, the proud owner of the 208's, LCR. I love them.

About a year ago she retired and there went the amazing deals, oh, well.

Time to pm the members mentioned here. I need ceiling speakers now that I got the Anthem 1120.
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post #8852 of 9719 Old 10-17-2016, 04:57 PM
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Answer from Revel re: "outriggers":

We do not have "outriggers" nor am I familiar with any such product.

We recommend bookcase wall/ floor anchors for applications like this.

Please see the caption below from the owners manual.

CAUTION: Floor-standing loudspeakers such as the F208 and F206 have a high center of gravity, which may cause them to fall if tipped or improperly positioned. To avoid this, anchor the loudspeaker to the floor and/or wall using the same procedures and hardware used to anchor bookcases, wall units, and other furniture. HARMAN International Industries, Inc. assumes no responsibility for proper selection and installation of hardware or for any personal injuries or product damages resulting from improper installation or a fallen loudspeaker.

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post #8853 of 9719 Old 10-17-2016, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Answer from Revel re: "outriggers":

We do not have "outriggers" nor am I familiar with any such product.

We recommend bookcase wall/ floor anchors for applications like this.

Please see the caption below from the owners manual.

CAUTION: Floor-standing loudspeakers such as the F208 and F206 have a high center of gravity, which may cause them to fall if tipped or improperly positioned. To avoid this, anchor the loudspeaker to the floor and/or wall using the same procedures and hardware used to anchor bookcases, wall units, and other furniture. HARMAN International Industries, Inc. assumes no responsibility for proper selection and installation of hardware or for any personal injuries or product damages resulting from improper installation or a fallen loudspeaker.
Thanks for looking into this for me JOHN. I'll see what I can come up with. Ordered some outriggers from soundocity and will report back if they work out. Otherwise, will look for anchors.
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post #8854 of 9719 Old 10-18-2016, 03:35 PM
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A big shoutout to John. As I'm sure many of you already know, John is very helpful and an all around great guy. I emailed him to ask some questions and he took his time giving me full and complete answers.

Thank you, sir.

Mark
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post #8855 of 9719 Old 10-19-2016, 03:07 PM
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Anyone have thoughts on how the M106 compares to M20's? I'm going to put some speakers in my office at work and am deciding between a pair of M106's, M20's or KEF LS50's.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #8856 of 9719 Old 10-19-2016, 04:30 PM
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Anyone have thoughts on how the M106 compares to M20's? I'm going to put some speakers in my office at work and am deciding between a pair of M106's, M20's or KEF LS50's.
Are you placing them on a shelf in front of a wall? Know that the M20s can position quite close to a back wall and near a side wall and sound wonderful. Fwiw, as the years have gone by, the M20 is still my favorite Revel bookshelf.
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post #8857 of 9719 Old 10-19-2016, 04:47 PM
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Anyone have thoughts on how the M106 compares to M20's? I'm going to put some speakers in my office at work and am deciding between a pair of M106's, M20's or KEF LS50's.
Haven't compared them as the M20s were before my time with Revel Of course, the M106 represents a refinement of the M20 design. From my conversations with Kevin Voecks, the main differences in the Performa3 line is that they have wider and flatter dispersion than the previous generation.

I spent quite a bit of time listening to the KEFs at RMAF and thought they sounded quite good, but of course they were not side by side with M106s!

I checked on Soundstage.com, and NRC measurements are available for all three. Looks like the M106 and M20 measure the best out of the group - you can check for yourself:

http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?...nts&Itemid=153

http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?...nts&Itemid=153

http://www.soundstage.com/measuremen..._performa_m20/

The M20 has been discontinued for a while - do you have access to a used pair?

I've also attached Harman's own Spinorama data on the M106.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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post #8858 of 9719 Old 10-21-2016, 04:02 PM
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I am planning on getting a pair of F208 with c208, and will be using pioneer elite sc95 receiver to drive them, do you recommend getting a separate amp for the front channels, or will the pioneer be enough to drive them.
Will be using them 90% movies.
Link to AV receiver http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eceivers/SC-95
Thank you
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post #8859 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by schweich12 View Post
Thanks for looking into this for me JOHN. I'll see what I can come up with. Ordered some outriggers from soundocity and will report back if they work out. Otherwise, will look for anchors.

Thanks for the information on Outriggers. Those look like great products! The flat ones may solve some safety issues with Revel F208 loudspeakers at my son's house with my grandchildren, and at a reasonable price.

http://www.soundocity.com/Flat_Strap_Outriggers.html

The spike bars look interesting as well for my own use. It would be handy to be able to adjust the elevation of the spikes without reaching under the speaker.
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post #8860 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by magicwonder View Post
I am planning on getting a pair of F208 with c208, and will be using pioneer elite sc95 receiver to drive them, do you recommend getting a separate amp for the front channels, or will the pioneer be enough to drive them.
Will be using them 90% movies.
Link to AV receiver http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eceivers/SC-95
Thank you
Probably depends on room size, listening level, sub/no sub, etc.

I would give it a try and see.
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post #8861 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Probably depends on room size, listening level, sub/no sub, etc.

I would give it a try and see.
I will also be up grading to F208's and C208 for our new home. I am using a Parasound A31 for the front three. It's currently driving my old NHT VT-2 towers and NHT center. It is an amazing amp and the power is more that enough. I have never used and AVR so I can't speak for their ability to drive the Revel's. It is likely worth giving it a try and if your don't like it make sure that you have the ability to return it.
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Have fun with music and HT

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post #8862 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 05:51 PM
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Thank you Gary and laserjock II.
Besides achieving the desired volume levels, anything else I need to look for? I read somewhere that not having enough amp power could potentially damage your speakers. Thats why I was trying to plan ahead.
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post #8863 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by magicwonder View Post
I am planning on getting a pair of F208 with c208, and will be using pioneer elite sc95 receiver to drive them, do you recommend getting a separate amp for the front channels, or will the pioneer be enough to drive them.
Will be using them 90% movies.
Link to AV receiver http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eceivers/SC-95
Thank you


IMO I may sugest you a separate amp. At least 200 watt. F208 needs a lot of power...
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post #8864 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 07:49 PM
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Thank you Gary and laserjock II.
Besides achieving the desired volume levels, anything else I need to look for? I read somewhere that not having enough amp power could potentially damage your speakers. Thats why I was trying to plan ahead.
What's your setup now, 5.1?

Room size?
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post #8865 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 07:52 PM
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I will also be up grading to F208's and C208 for our new home. I am using a Parasound A31 for the front three. It's currently driving my old NHT VT-2 towers and NHT center. It is an amazing amp and the power is more that enough. I have never used and AVR so I can't speak for their ability to drive the Revel's. It is likely worth giving it a try and if your don't like it make sure that you have the ability to return it.


Youre done!
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post #8866 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 08:05 PM
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What's your setup now, 5.1?

Room size?
Room is about 18x20, plan to have just two front towers and add a center channel when watching movies. No sub
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post #8867 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 08:21 PM
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Room is about 18x20, plan to have just two front towers and add a center channel when watching movies. No sub
I'd say give it a try.

Here's a review that might help

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-95-av-receiver-review#DL3v4DzPzujBe8bA.97
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post #8868 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 08:40 PM
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IMO I may sugest you a separate amp. At least 200 watt. F208 needs a lot of power...
Thank you
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post #8869 of 9719 Old 10-22-2016, 08:50 PM
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I'd say give it a try.

Here's a review that might help

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...DzPzujBe8bA.97
Thank you, now that's out of the way, its time for the difficult decision to decide on the towers F208. I am leaning towards Revel, will try to listen to them at a dealer, I have tried Paradigm signature, B&W CM10, unfortunately the closest dealer is more than 100 miles away. John have been very helpful but graphs only tell you so much.
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post #8870 of 9719 Old 10-23-2016, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post
Anyone have thoughts on how the M106 compares to M20's? I'm going to put some speakers in my office at work and am deciding between a pair of M106's, M20's or KEF LS50's.
You have access to a pair of M20's? Otherwise, the M16 vs M106 would be the more available and relevant Revel bookshelf speaker considerations for comparison.
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post #8871 of 9719 Old 10-23-2016, 09:59 AM
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Thank you, now that's out of the way, its time for the difficult decision to decide on the towers F208. I am leaning towards Revel, will try to listen to them at a dealer, I have tried Paradigm signature, B&W CM10, unfortunately the closest dealer is more than 100 miles away. John have been very helpful but graphs only tell you so much.
I thought the 208's were "on the way"?
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post #8872 of 9719 Old 10-23-2016, 05:55 PM
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I thought the 208's were "on the way"?
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post #8873 of 9719 Old 10-24-2016, 07:06 PM
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Room is about 18x20, plan to have just two front towers and add a center channel when watching movies. No sub
Since you don't have a separate sub, you might want to seriously consider a separate amp. The lowest frequencies put the greatest strain on the amplifier, so if you are not re-directing everything below 80 hz to a sub the amp needs to work that much harder.

We've been spec'ing in the Emotiva XPA3 for the front three channels lately and have had very good luck. The Emotiva has the advantage of being pretty inexpensive for the power you get. Any competently designed amp with a solid 150 wpc should do well, though, with the 208s.

Your room is also fairly large, so another argument for a separate amp.

And you are correct, not having enough power will damage a speaker more easily than having "too much." (Actually, it's very hard to have too much.)
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post #8874 of 9719 Old 10-24-2016, 07:18 PM
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Thank you, now that's out of the way, its time for the difficult decision to decide on the towers F208. I am leaning towards Revel, will try to listen to them at a dealer, I have tried Paradigm signature, B&W CM10, unfortunately the closest dealer is more than 100 miles away. John have been very helpful but graphs only tell you so much.
If it helps, the Revels pretty easily beat out the B&Ws during the double blind testing at the Harman MLL The B&Ws have a serious issue with integration between the midrange and tweeter - the midrange driver is simply too large for the crossover point. There is a discussion about it in this thread (among others, which are also linked to in the same thread):

What is wrong with B&W speakers?

The Paradigms are a very good speaker, but have a considerably brighter sound than the Revels. We sell both brands; if it tells you anything I chose the F208s for myself. I find that the Paradigm brightness grates after a while.

Good luck and have fun!
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post #8875 of 9719 Old 10-24-2016, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
I'd say give it a try.

Here's a review that might help

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...DzPzujBe8bA.97
Hmmm... reading that review the Pioneer does seem to have a pretty decent amp section. Still think one will be better off with separates, but the Pioneer might be worth a try solo...

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post #8876 of 9719 Old 10-24-2016, 09:25 PM
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Hmmm... reading that review the Pioneer does seem to have a pretty decent amp section. Still think one will be better off with separates, but the Pioneer might be worth a try solo...
I would say so also but since he's only using LR and LCR then it is worth a shot.
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post #8877 of 9719 Old 10-24-2016, 11:02 PM
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I'd have more confidence if there was a sub, though

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post #8878 of 9719 Old 10-25-2016, 10:59 AM
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We've been spec'ing in the Emotiva XPA3 for the front three channels lately and have had very good luck. The Emotiva has the advantage of being pretty inexpensive for the power you get. Any competently designed amp with a solid 150 wpc should do well, though, with the 208s.
Ditto on the Emotiva's quality. I have the 208's and was running a Marantz SR7009, which was heating up to over 100 degrees. I added the Emotiva XPA-5, and the Marantz went down 20 degrees.. For what it's worth, I couldn't tell a difference in "sound quality." Excellent, reasonably priced amplifier..

Also Ditto on the weakness's of the B&W CM10's. It was my first pick until I heard the Focal 948's or the Revel F208's. The CM10's sounded shrill in comparison.
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post #8879 of 9719 Old 10-25-2016, 11:35 AM
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Ditto on the Emotiva's quality. I have the 208's and was running a Marantz SR7009, which was heating up to over 100 degrees. I added the Emotiva XPA-5, and the Marantz went down 20 degrees.. For what it's worth, I couldn't tell a difference in "sound quality." Excellent, reasonably priced amplifier..

Also Ditto on the weakness's of the B&W CM10's. It was my first pick until I heard the Focal 948's or the Revel F208's. The CM10's sounded shrill in comparison.
Yes! To be clear, I don't expect that going from an AVS to separates will improve sound quality as a general rule, but it will make sure you won't run out of power and start pushing the amp into clipping, which can definitely be audible.

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post #8880 of 9719 Old 10-25-2016, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post
Anyone have thoughts on how the M106 compares to M20's? I'm going to put some speakers in my office at work and am deciding between a pair of M106's, M20's or KEF LS50's.
I'll take a stab at this one... IMHO, the M106's are a much better speaker than the M20's. I've compared them side-by-side (I'm a dealer). The 20's were "good", and the 106's are an incredible deal. I'd say the M20's have less resolution in comparison. If I had to chose a word for the 20's, I would call them "polite" on the top end (Aerial Acoustics like) and that' not my personal cup of tea. Plus, the vocal clarity isn't as precise. In the past, I've concluded the "vocal clarity" problems with the cabinet resonanting. In the past few years, I know that they take a laser and scan the entire speaker (every mm of the box) while it is doing a frequency sweep. Meaning, they are searching for the exact location of the vibrations that "color" the sound. I suppose they could use aluminum like the Magico's that I sell and brace the heck out of them but they were trying to hit a price point. Anyways, when they see vibrations, they then brace the problem spots at their onsite cabinet engineering facility which is about 40 feet away from the laser machine. So GUESS what bookshelves are in MY office? Yea, the walnut finish is beautiful.

Here is why they are a steal. Revel's research facility dwarfs all others. An interesting statistic: There are 23,000 Harman employees and about 12,000 are engineers. Of course not all of them are related to the speakers BUT about 1/3th of Harman's revenue is car audio or close to $2 BILLION. That percentage is from memory and I could be off a little. But Harman is deep into automobiles as an aggregate. So car audio (though home audio recognition) helps get them into the entire car design. They are into heads-up display, heating and air, etc.

What does this have to do with Revel HOME speakers? I would not be surprised if they are designing home speakers for visibility to sell car audio. Analogy: the Chevy Corvette isn't for profit but rather to help gain visibility in other parts of their business. Yes, Revel home audio business is to add $$'s on the bottom line but a lot of their R&D efforts are synergistic to car audio.

To put it in perspective and to further babble, I'd strongly guess that a company like Vandersteen or Proac MIGHT sell $5M a year. I'm not so sure Revel home speakers sells even $10M-$20M total but I am only guessing. So as you might accurately guess, they may not chase the reviewers or dealers with the same level of intensity. After all, they have 10's of billions of dollars in auto bookings. I heard a number that their car audio is nearly $2B in sales. Of course their R&D are synergistic (Floyd Toole and Shawn Olive are the tip of the iceberg). So if you are following, my theory is that part of the Revel home business is for visibly for car. Oh... Revel sold Lincoln on their engineering expertise by showing how their R&D for home follows into the car. Sold to the tune of a couple hundred million. They brought out Salon2's to Detroit. I bought one of those speakers.

Back to their R&D. I counted 3 anechoic chambers at their massive facility and many demo / listening facilities. Engineers (I'm one as well) were all over the place. I "drank the Koolaid" and became a believer.

With the brands that I carry, I just did an A-B-C-D comparison for a bookshelf and picked the M106. Let me put it this way:IF you don't like the M106, you are either sonically challenged our the room is less than ideal. There are no other options. I'm not saying someone won't like this or that bookshelf better in comparison because this sport is subjective. I'm saying that it's solid, world class engineering that deserves to be listened to. If you don't like them, give them a try in another room. Simply put, they are extremely good especially for the $$'s.

re: the LS50's. Again, I'm a dealer. They too are very polite on the top end (British sound). In fact, at the Revel's Northridge facility, I was tested in the blind (along with 16 other sets of ears). We all had an iPad and the letters were reshuffled. I felt the stress that I better be repeatable and I was. About all I knew or assumed was that at least one pair of speakers were a pair of Revel's. I think that is a safe bet considering I was at a Revel facility. There were 4 speakers in the blind perfectly level matched. I picked the LS50's 2nd to the last. Ready for this.... The Revel speaker was the Concerta2 bookshelf! Yes, 16 sets of ears in the blind picked the Concerta2's let alone the Performa 3's over the LS50's. NO one in the blind picked the LS50's 1st. But your mileage may vary.
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