Revel Owners Thread - Page 307 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9181 of 10190 Old 01-16-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by acommonsoul View Post
For all of you from the Los Angeles area, I am looking into purchasing a Revel f208 setup and was wondering if you can recommend any good dealers in the area? I know there aren't a lot of choices, but any good experiences would be appreciated.


There are some good ones on this forum.


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post #9182 of 10190 Old 01-16-2017, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by danthony1 View Post
There are some good ones on this forum.
Any particular ones? Or where to find a list on this forum? I have been going trough many pages, but I don't see anyone listed as a dealer? Where should I be looking? Please forgive my ignorance
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post #9183 of 10190 Old 01-16-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by acommonsoul View Post
Any particular ones? Or where to find a list on this forum? I have been going trough many pages, but I don't see anyone listed as a dealer? Where should I be looking? Please forgive my ignorance
@SteveH and @John Schuermann are both Revel dealers, both participate in the Revel threads, and are both great to work with.
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post #9184 of 10190 Old 01-16-2017, 06:54 PM
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Revel Dealer in Forums

John Schuermann frequents these forums and was very helpful with a recent F36 purchase. He is one option that I had a good sales experience.
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post #9185 of 10190 Old 01-16-2017, 07:03 PM
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Thanks everyone!
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post #9186 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Here's a question perhaps @John Schuermann can answer.

In this article in Sound & Vision (http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...ZoEFkR6V27E.97), Thomas J. Norton says this about the Revel Studio2:

"He (Kevin Voecks) also noted that there is a small shelf on the bottom end of the Studio2 that reduces the level of its bass a bit when compared to the F208 (though the actual bass extension of the two speakers is comparable). Might this have been a deliberate choice to give the Studio2 the "tighter" sounding bass that audiophiles are known to prefer? Or was it merely a re-thinking in the seven plus years since the Studio2's were released to the market?"

So why did Revel "voice" the Studio2 with that low end shelf that makes them have less extended low frequency response? Why would their $16K speaker have less bass than their $5K speaker?

I thought the Studio 2 would be ideal for smaller rooms (like mine). It has almost everything the Salon2 has (best drivers and crossovers) and would only lack the ability to play louder with less distortion. When I read Tom Norton's article and looked at the Stereophile measurements of the F208 and the Studio2, I chose the F208 for it's extend low frequency response. I couldn't justify a 3x price differential for "refinement" but less low end.

It seems the new F208be may outperform the Studio2 at a lower price point. Will the Studio2 become obsolete or will they rethink the low end response issue?

Interested to hear thoughts on this.
Was told by Kevin V. that the tweeter in the Salon and Studio2 is still superior to the F208Be. You also get the diffraction-reducing cabinet (vs. the flat facing cabinet of the F208, Be or not). Mark Glaser was telling me that the curved cabinet really helps give orchestral recordings in particular that sense of richness and spaciousness.

Why the lower level of bass response on the Studio2 vs. the F208? That I don't have a hard answer to.
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post #9187 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Surely there is a room for another bridge between that one and Ultima. Just gotta make a model with curved front baffle designed to reduce diffraction.
Absolutely! That cabinet is VERY expensive to manufacture, though. No way they could pull off the same design today and keep it in even the current Studio2 and Salon2 price range.
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post #9188 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cavalier240 View Post
New to researching Revel speakers, but I'm intrigued by the F206s. My problem is that I only have space for an on-wall center. How does the timbre match across Revel's various lines? Would it be a bad idea to use a C10 center with F206 L+R?
All of the Revel speakers have the same target - flat & accurate response plus broad and even dispersion. As a result, there is a definite Revel "sound" that is consistent across the line-up. As you move up, you get greater articulation, detail and smoothness.

The C10 is fairly old at this point, so may not be a perfect match. But it certainly would be a better match than a speaker from a different manufacturer!
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post #9189 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post
So I guess this means no Ultima 3?
Not in the near future, from my understanding.
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post #9190 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Trvlngnrs View Post
For those of you that have heard... how does the c208 sound with the f206?

Do they match, even with the different sized drivers, or do you recommend the smaller c205 with the f206's?


Thanks,
Trvlngnrs
Nothing against the C205, but the C208 is a better match for either the F208 or F206. The center carries 70 - 80% of the movie, so always best to splurge on a good center. The C205 was designed to blend well with the F208 and F206 but also fit into a typical TV stand / entertainment center.
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post #9191 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Sedlack View Post
Same here. Hope they still keep the original 208 in the line up as well so we will have a choice.
They will stay
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post #9192 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gmore View Post
+1
With that said, even though it's probably not plug'n play(at least spec wise), I might be tempted to swap tweets just to hear what happens
That's assuming a proper physical match. They did announce a new WG but the proto pic appears(to me) to be the current one with Be mounted (screws as oppose to 1 peice w/WG)? So the new tweet may call for a different routing?
The actual production units will probably have a different midrange driver and surrounds.
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post #9193 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
This seems kind of like an "if you build it, they will come" sort of thing. Meaning that if they offer a Be center to begin with, it will help ensure higher sales of the associated Be speakers. Without a matching center, sales are going to be more isolated to the 2 channel crowd. But I'm sure they know what they're doing...
FWIW, I lobbied HEAVILY for a C208Be center, every day of the show. I will follow up and pass on all the feedback shared here. By the last day of the show I got the impression that I had made an impression
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post #9194 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Thanks to everyone for the responses to my post. I have done extensive reading including Dr. Toole's book. My only question is only about the steep slope cutoff on the Studio2 that starts at about 50 Hz. It seems to me they could have achieved flatter/more extended low frequency response similar to the F208. Kevin Voecks comments on the low frequency shelf on the Studio2.

I have not had a chance to hear the Studio2, just looking at frequency response curves. I know the Studio2 has a lot of things that make it superior to the F208.

My room can barely handle the size of the Studio2 (F208's are ideal), but not the Salon2. I also do not have a place to put even one sub. Wondering if the Studio2 would have enough bass.

I'm going to have to go listen, I think a local dealer here has a pair in their showroom.

I can't find the Harman spin data on the Studio2, I have only seen the Stereophile measurements. Can anyone provide the Harman spin for the Studio2?

Thanks again!
Ask and you shall receive:

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post #9195 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by danthony1 View Post
Question for the experts. Which 8" in ceiling speaker is the best match to the performa3? Looking at their website, they have so many different ones.


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The 5 and 7 series roughly match the Performas - as in the C583 or C783.

If you are looking for ATMOS heights, you might check out the C763L - they are literally the same speaker used as heights in the mastering of about 90% of Blu-rays.

I've attached the breakdown of Revel in-wall and in-ceiling models. Roughly:

The 2 and 3 series match Concerta2
The 5 and 7 series match Performa3
The 8 and 9 series match Ultima2
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2016-07-21__Revel Architectural Series Differentiation.pdf (236.1 KB, 71 views)
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post #9196 of 10190 Old 01-19-2017, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Was told by Kevin V. that the tweeter in the Salon and Studio2 is still superior to the F208Be. You also get the diffraction-reducing cabinet (vs. the flat facing cabinet of the F208, Be or not). Mark Glaser was telling me that the curved cabinet really helps give orchestral recordings in particular that sense of richness and spaciousness.

Why the lower level of bass response on the Studio2 vs. the F208? That I don't have a hard answer to.
Wow John, an explosion of posts!
I love it.
You are a real asset here.
I know I'm not the only one who appreciates your presence.
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post #9197 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Ask and you shall receive:
John,

I think you attached the spin data for the Studio 2, but for some reason it is not showing up. If you do have it, could you please post it again or send it to me via PM?

Many thanks!

Rex
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post #9198 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 09:48 AM
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Currently own a R56ci center channel and want upgrade to the C208. what improvements should be expected from the C208 over the R56ci?
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post #9199 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 11:00 AM
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Currently own a R56ci center channel and want upgrade to the C208. what improvements should be expected from the C208 over the R56ci?
I would say the main Revel qualities - accuracy, so voices will be reproduced with greater clarity and realism, plus a greater sense of spaciousness due to the wide dispersion pattern.

Hard to really say without listening side by side - never have heard the RBH speakers...
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post #9200 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
John,

I think you attached the spin data for the Studio 2, but for some reason it is not showing up. If you do have it, could you please post it again or send it to me via PM?

Many thanks!

Rex
Weird - I see it in my browser, above (using Chrome). Re-posting, along with Salon2 spins. Will also attach them as files for download.

Salon2:



Studio 2:

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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post #9201 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 11:07 AM
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Anyone know when the F208 BEs are coming out and how their sound compares with the F208s?
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post #9202 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 11:11 AM
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I know in the case of focals that I own for 5k vs the sopra 3 20k its a night/day difference. I would assume the same can be said for revel. this isnt to say the 5k pricepoint is bad in any way, just that the 20k speakers are that much better imo. If you have the $$$ spend it on the speakers. with that said, I am still more than happy at the 5k pricepoint...they do alot of stuff right (90%+ of the 20k speakers)

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post #9203 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cheapeats View Post
Anyone know when the F208 BEs are coming out and how their sound compares with the F208s?
My comments about them are here:

Revel Owners Thread

Ship date is anticipated late summer this year.

There are other comments on their sound following mine in this same thread, if you follow the link above.
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post #9204 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
I would say the main Revel qualities - accuracy, so voices will be reproduced with greater clarity and realism, plus a greater sense of spaciousness due to the wide dispersion pattern.

Hard to really say without listening side by side - never have heard the RBH speakers...
Can't comment on the R56ci but did audition the RBH SV-661CR with AMT and the C208 at the same time. Preferred the sound of the C208 and its transparency. That said, i prefer the Voice2 even more; the best center I've ever heard.
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post #9205 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Weird - I see it in my browser, above (using Chrome). Re-posting, along with Salon2 spins. Will also attach them as files for download.

Salon2: Studio 2:
They are both there now. It might be something to do with the fact that I still use Firefox. I have noticed it before on some other forums.

Thanks for the extra effort!
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post #9206 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 06:08 PM
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So much great info on this forum, I don't suppose whereabouts on this thread ya'll discussed component matching or if there's any salon 1 owners out there what pre, amp, int, made these speakers go from just amazing to OMG? I'm still pleasantly surprised at how well my anthem 225I is doing controlling the bass, making musical midrange and only getting siblance on the lesser recordings but, experience tells me monsters like these will improve with associated equipment. Thanks again all.
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post #9207 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Last year, I bought three pallet loads of speakers from Revel. What happened is a large Revel dealer went out of business and I bought all of their demo inventory (through Revel). In order to understand the condition, I needed to open up every pair. It gave me the perfect opportunity to study each and every model side-by-side in the same room. While it wasn't in the blind, I was careful to level match and align the speakers in the same position. I concluded that the Studio2's in stereo & large, didn't have enough bottom end for my huge room and taste (about 18'x26'x14' height). The Salon2's was well worth the sonic upgrade albeit a big increase in the price tag.

Certainly the F208's had a good deal more "oomph" over the Studio2. But the Studio was more refined. The more obvious difference was that the top end wasn't as transparent on the Performa3 series. Hence, someone could make the argument that the F208 Be might be a better fit. But I'm only guessing. I would assume there would be other trade-offs as well. Anyways, I decided to keep a pair of Salon2's as they lite up my room! But I have one kid in dental school and another in medical school. Someone wanted a deal on a pair of Salon2's and of course, everything is for sale.

At the end of the experiment, I ended up with the incredible F206's. They do soooooooooooooo many things right. Because of port design, the dispersion pattern, and specifically how my room is laid out (flanked on each side of a centered fireplace), I will impress the heck out of anyone. Especially, for so little money (using audiophile standards). Also, with less than ideal music, the recorded "brightness" does not come out as much. For me, that makes it a nice speaker for my plentiful 1980's music library. If I listen to audiophile music 24-7, then I want the maximum clarity as possible (with a linear FR). For instance, the DALI Epicon 6's ($14K) are AWESOME. But they quickly were swapped out because of what I just typed; way too "bright" with grainy 80's recordings. The Salon2's were much more forgiving than the DALI Epicon's. So I personally prefer the "inferior" DALI Rubicon series. That is also why people like tube amps. It's a filter (literally) that removes grain and harshness from an "o.k." recording. But it's an archaic approach to drive speakers; I will never personally use tube amps. I digress....

Some Revel related conclusions that I can confirm. The Salon's LOVE beefy amplification. I used some ATI 300 watt Signature's (6xxx series) and that was an incredible synergy. Maybe that might be a reason why you took a close look at them? The F206's simply don't need anywhere near as much muscle. The F208's want beefier amplification than the F206's. In fact, I am currently studying the Denon 6300H theater receiver with the F206's . Denon made custom output devices for the 6300H in order to drive lower impedance loads. So while I am cheating the system with inexpensive theater receiver, I didn't pick what I picked by accident. So for those with wine taste on a beer budget, contemplate the Denon X6300H. It's an extremely good sounding HT receiver for a bunch of technical reasons and a very good synergy with the 206's. I just never tried with the F208's. So I don't know...

With the X6300H and stereo listening, make sure to hit "Pure Direct". If your ears work and your room is good, you will hear the improvement. My source music is 40,000,000 songs via Tidal. With tidal, I am done buying more CD's. The 206's do have a lot of bottom end. In a perfect world, I'd like a little bit more bass. In fact, I prefer more bottom end in just about every stereo speaker ever made. So the next step is to add a sub dedicated for stereo. Since the Christmas tree is out of the room, my next experiment is to use these. I'm an SVS dealer and like the EQ feature of the new series. I'm going to fine tune to get that extra extension that I desire. Because of the EQing application on the sub, I can EQ a flat LF response and pull down the FR where I want. I plan on using the preouts of the L&R signal of the Denon receiver to drive the sub. I hope it works in real life like it does on paper.
If you have any more demo f206 sets in good condition, pls pm me
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post #9208 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by steven59 View Post
So much great info on this forum, I don't suppose whereabouts on this thread ya'll discussed component matching or if there's any salon 1 owners out there what pre, amp, int, made these speakers go from just amazing to OMG? I'm still pleasantly surprised at how well my anthem 225I is doing controlling the bass, making musical midrange and only getting siblance on the lesser recordings but, experience tells me monsters like these will improve with associated equipment. Thanks again all.
The Anthem is a very competent amp. How much do you want to spend on equipment to try & better it? There is a lot of great equipment out there. Unfortunately a lot of it is not really worth the 5K+ asking prices in terms of "Wow, what a difference." Would you want to spend 10K on electronics and not tell much of a difference?

You'd probably notice much more of a wow factor by moving to a newer speaker. I would compare the Studio2/Salon2, new Performa 3Be or Paradigm Persona 3F/5F.
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post #9209 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by steven59 View Post
So much great info on this forum, I don't suppose whereabouts on this thread ya'll discussed component matching or if there's any salon 1 owners out there what pre, amp, int, made these speakers go from just amazing to OMG? I'm still pleasantly surprised at how well my anthem 225I is doing controlling the bass, making musical midrange and only getting siblance on the lesser recordings but, experience tells me monsters like these will improve with associated equipment. Thanks again all.
The Anthem 225 appears to be a reasonable amplifier, based on the spec's and a few reviews, to use for driving the Salon1. Changing amplifiers is the not the first action I'd take to improve the sound of the Salon1 unless you can't get the SPL you want. That isn't the issue you are describing.

I owned Salon1's before Salon2's. I found that sound absorbing panels at the first side reflection points, left and right, helped the Salon1's a lot. The panels need to be 4-inches thick. The Salon2 doesn't seem to need these panels. The off axis response of the Salon2 is better behaved. Here is a good source for inexpensive sound absorbing panels:

http://www.atsacoustics.com/

The Salon1's should also be aimed inward toward the listener, not straight ahead. This minimizes the sound power in the 1kHz to say 6kHz range, where the ear is very sensitive, that hits the side wall and reflects.

If you do look for a new amplifier get something that can drive a lot of power into less than 4-ohms. This means you need current more than voltage so I'd stay away from typical bridged amplifiers, although there are exceptions, anyway... One Bryston 4B3 (or 4BSST2 used) (stereo, non-bridged, 500 watts into 4 ohms) would be a better choice than two Bryston 7B3's (a bridged unit) for example, and of course a lot cheaper. Not that I'm recommending Bryston amplifiers, but this just makes an easy example.

Again, I'd go for some room treatment before upgrading electronics. I say that without knowing your actual electronics (why be confused with the facts), but it is most likely the best course.
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post #9210 of 10190 Old 01-20-2017, 08:04 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Was told by Kevin V. that the tweeter in the Salon and Studio2 is still superior to the F208Be. You also get the diffraction-reducing cabinet (vs. the flat facing cabinet of the F208, Be or not). Mark Glaser was telling me that the curved cabinet really helps give orchestral recordings in particular that sense of richness and spaciousness.

Why the lower level of bass response on the Studio2 vs. the F208? That I don't have a hard answer to.
I meant to comment on this right after you posted but was to busy\tired etc.

The fact is the cabinets on the Studio and Salon are big deal in how they sound and get out of the way of the sound waves.
IMO, it's not limited to any particular type of music.

The massive baffle and CNC carved profile are a large contributor to sound of these speakers.
ADS pioneered the thin profile speaker cabs reducing unwanted reflections with a thick baffle, rigid cab to further reduce spurious vibrations.
They really did set the prototype for modern speaker design that lasts to this day.
One big difference is also the measurement tools and materials available to manufacturers today
Beryllium and other exotic materials are incredibly expensive create into these forms to exacting specs.
BUT with that said, the material used in a driver is immaterial.
Fantastic results have been achieved with any material you can imagine. Wood pulp, plastics, various metals, you name it.

There are wonderful speakers that defy this design paradigm, to me most notably is Harbeth.
Beautiful sounding speakers. Bought my first pair in 1979 when no one in the US outside of small group in Seattle had ever heard of them.
Dudley Harwood was one of the seminal driver\speaker designers in the 50's, 60's & 70's but I'm digressing badly.

To me the fundamental thing to keep in mind if you have an affinity for the Revel sound is this:
Everything they do is driven by improvement in audible and measurable performance at a given price point.
Again if you like the Revel sound, buy the speaker you can best afford and rest assured you're getting real, lasting value for your investment.
One footnote, Revels like horsepower.
Apologies for the soliloquy.
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It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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