Revel Owners Thread - Page 313 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9361 of 10160 Old 02-16-2017, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GATABITES View Post
Well, I joined the ranks of Revel owner recently. I purchased the F208, C208 and M105. My question is: can I run the M105 as rear-surrounds? They are fairly heavy and are rear-ported, so the hanging from the wall is not an option (as least in my mind). I was thinking about ordering the M106/106 stand; which is 24" tall. It seems it may be a bit too low for surround directed at the MLP. I was thinking the stands and place them on some sort of platform to raise them up a bit. I havent hooked them up yet, as I will wait until i figure out placement before ordering speaker wire, stands etc.

I was dead set on the concerta S16 on wall for surrounds but the deal I got was too sweet to pass up.

I am blown away from the sound quality with just the LCR powered with an A3060 AVR (still researching power amps). The clarity and volume is superb. I am one happy enthusiast, but my wallet hates me tight about now.

All advice is welcomed as some of you can write a book on home audio.

Merci!
M105s or M106s are ideal for ATMOS or music surround duty. If you are looking for surrounds for more basic 5.1 / 7.1 surround, the S206 bi-pole *may* work better. Since everything is moving toward ATMOS and other immersive sound formats, the M105 or M106 are probably the best bets.

For surround use, you want to make sure that the tweeter of any of the surround speakers discussed is high enough so that you clear the heads of those sitting beside and behind you. Not only do you get the full benefit of the surround channels, you also don't end up blasting those sitting on the periphery right in the ear

Great system!
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post #9362 of 10160 Old 02-16-2017, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
I'm looking at music speakers for my office. They will need placement behind my desk, but they can be elevated and brought out from the back wall up to 4 feet, along with another 4 feet from speaker to desk. I've narrowed choices down to Revel f208 or JBL 708p. Any opinions?
Agree with almost all of what @Rex Anderson has had to say here. You will get some bounce off the desk, so if you can treat that surface it may not be so bad.

I have the 708s and the F208s both in our showroom. The 708s are incredibly revealing, a "finely etched" type sound. They can really show up poor quality recordings for what they are. They have a bit more treble energy than the F208s, and the compression driver in the 708 offers greater treble dynamics (which can add a *slight* bit of harshness). For me I love them for movie listening where the extra dynamics really do pay off.

Note - I am describing the 708i, as the 708P won't even ship for another couple of months.

The Revels definitely have more of that silky smooth audiophile sound, particularly with orchestral music. While the 708 has amazing bass output for its size, the F208 definitely seems to have more detail / articulation in the bass.

To me, both speakers are great at what they are designed for - the 708 for critical listening in mixing applications, the F208 for relaxing into and getting involved with the music.

Hope that helps!
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post #9363 of 10160 Old 02-16-2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Agree with almost all of what @Rex Anderson has had to say here. You will get some bounce off the desk, so if you can treat that surface it may not be so bad.

I have the 708s and the F208s both in our showroom. The 708s are incredibly revealing, a "finely etched" type sound. They can really show up poor quality recordings for what they are. They have a bit more treble energy than the F208s, and the compression driver in the 708 offers greater treble dynamics (which can add a *slight* bit of harshness). For me I love them for movie listening where the extra dynamics really do pay off.

Note - I am describing the 708i, as the 708P won't even ship for another couple of months.

The Revels definitely have more of that silky smooth audiophile sound, particularly with orchestral music. While the 708 has amazing bass output for its size, the F208 definitely seems to have more detail / articulation in the bass.

To me, both speakers are great at what they are designed for - the 708 for critical listening in mixing applications, the F208 for relaxing into and getting involved with the music.

Hope that helps!
That does help, thank you!
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post #9364 of 10160 Old 02-17-2017, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Agree with almost all of what @Rex Anderson has had to say here. You will get some bounce off the desk, so if you can treat that surface it may not be so bad.

I have the 708s and the F208s both in our showroom. The 708s are incredibly revealing, a "finely etched" type sound. They can really show up poor quality recordings for what they are. They have a bit more treble energy than the F208s, and the compression driver in the 708 offers greater treble dynamics (which can add a *slight* bit of harshness). For me I love them for movie listening where the extra dynamics really do pay off.

The Revels definitely have more of that silky smooth audiophile sound, particularly with orchestral music. While the 708 has amazing bass output for its size, the F208 definitely seems to have more detail / articulation in the bass.

To me, both speakers are great at what they are designed for - the 708 for critical listening in mixing applications, the F208 for relaxing into and getting involved with the music.
Thanks for describing the differences @John Schuermann. Sort of what I was expecting, but it's good to hear from someone who has compared them. Helps my knowledge base too. I wish I had somewhere local to listen to all the speakers I want to hear.

Curious about the "almost all" comment. I'm open to hearing about anything I have said that you don't agree with. I never want to stop learning and I respect your opinions based on everything I have read that you have written.

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post #9365 of 10160 Old 02-17-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Thanks for describing the differences @John Schuermann. Sort of what I was expecting, but it's good to hear from someone who has compared them. Helps my knowledge base too. I wish I had somewhere local to listen to all the speakers I want to hear.

Curious about the "almost all" comment. I'm open to hearing about anything I have said that you don't agree with. I never want to stop learning and I respect your opinions based on everything I have read that you have written.
Thanks - I feel exactly the same about you! I'm sure you have more experience mixing live musicians than I do - I am always doing film scores "in the box" (i.e., using samples) but would kill for the opportunity to record with a real orchestra someday. I have mixed 8 independent feature films, everything from dialogue editing to foley to final mix (I'm a one man band in more ways than one), but have yet to cut my teeth on a big budget production.

By almost all, I guess my only caveat is that I probably think that having the table / desk in between the speaker and the listening position is slightly more of a problem than you do. But then again, that's the purist talking vs. the pragmatist
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post #9366 of 10160 Old 02-17-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Thanks - I feel exactly the same about you! I'm sure you have more experience mixing live musicians than I do - I am always doing film scores "in the box" (i.e., using samples) but would kill for the opportunity to record with a real orchestra someday. I have mixed 8 independent feature films, everything from dialogue editing to foley to final mix (I'm a one man band in more ways than one), but have yet to cut my teeth on a big budget production.

By almost all, I guess my only caveat is that I probably think that having the table / desk in between the speaker and the listening position is slightly more of a problem than you do. But then again, that's the purist talking vs. the pragmatist
Thanks to you too. Mutual respect and admiration is a wonderful thing in today's world. 34 years of almost daily live and session recording in world class concert halls and studios has given me a unique bit of experience.

Trust me, having been seated at control room tables, mixing consoles and in living rooms with coffee tables in between me and the speakers for decades has made me hate those objects. The best listening experiences I have had have been in rooms with nothing in the way. I have been fortunate to have had a well designed room in my home and have been in many well designed mastering studios (Bob Katz's Digital Domain for one) and high end audio retailer's demo rooms (Audio Consultants in Chicago was designed by acoustician Doug Jones who did the room in my home). I worked hard to minimize the bounce we could hear off the tables in our control rooms.

I'm surprised I don't hear problems with the glass top coffee table in my current living room. I think it's a testament to how good the F208's are. I also think you hear the bounce more if you are seated at a table closer to the speakers (like in a near field monitoring situation).
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Last edited by Rex Anderson; 02-17-2017 at 01:00 PM.
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post #9367 of 10160 Old 02-17-2017, 12:58 PM
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Revel Owners Thread

Just finished installing a pair of C763L ceiling speakers. They replaced my Monitor Audio C280 3way and i will sum it up in one word WOW. The overhead canopy is now amazing. Just having the mid-tweet angled towards the listening position made a huge difference. I tested by replacing one, testing then installing the other. All I can say is anyone thinking about these should not think twice. They blend nicely with my Performa 3's. My next move is to add 2 more to complete a 5.1.4 setup. Having fun right now with the Atmos test disk. Thanks John S for the advice and deal.

The one downside is they are bigger than a normal 8" speaker so existing holes have to be enlarged and if you sell your house you can't just drop in a cheap speaker.

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post #9368 of 10160 Old 02-17-2017, 02:59 PM
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Surround sound 705P or 708P I will sit five feet from them?
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post #9369 of 10160 Old 02-17-2017, 03:55 PM
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Surround sound 705P or 708P I will sit five feet from them?
How much low end do you want from surrounds? If your subs are handling low end, you probably don't need 708's five feet from you.

Some folks use JBL M2's or Revel Salon2's for surrounds.

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post #9370 of 10160 Old 02-17-2017, 05:09 PM
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Either will work - the 708 will just play louder and extend deeper.
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post #9371 of 10160 Old 02-18-2017, 12:48 PM
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Hey @John Schuermann !

I'll dig out Floyd Toole's book again and look this up, but as I remember, he says the center channel should always be set to "small" because there is not much low end material there anyway. What are you using for your center channel and what is the crossover frequency?

I know there is plenty of low frequency material in surround channels (helicopters, bombs etc), so more low end extension is desirable.

If your system is using full range L/R and a sub (or multiple subs), how do you set your crossover? How much low frequency extension do you need from surround speakers if your subs are handling a lot of it?

I see 80 Hz as a crossover for a lot of system recommendations, but that seems high to me (low E string on a guitar). I think of bass more around 80 Hz down to 40 Hz (low E on bass guitar) and subsonic stuff below that.

If a main full range speaker is crossing over at 80 Hz with the sub, that frequency seems too high to me for both speakers. Obviously this depends on what main speakers and what subs.

Say we're talking about JBL M2's, Revel Salon2's etc paired with the right subs?

Say I wanted to add one sub (all that will fit in my living room) to my Revel F208's. What do you recommend? I'd love to get a JL Audio F112 (had a pair at work), but over my budget.

We watched "Arrival" a few nights ago and I felt the need for a sub. I have also been wanting to get a pair of Revel 763L's put in the ceiling to get 5.1 surround going again. Finally settled in the house and tired of living with just an L/C/R system. The F208's are great for 2 channel music listening and LCR is OK for TV, but Blu-Ray movies really need at least 5.1 which is all the room will accommodate.

Thanks for your insight.

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post #9372 of 10160 Old 02-18-2017, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Hey @John Schuermann !
Say we're talking about JBL M2's, Revel Salon2's etc paired with the right subs?

Say I wanted to add one sub (all that will fit in my living room) to my Revel F208's. What do you recommend? I'd love to get a JL Audio F112 (had a pair at work), but over my budget.
If you're running Salon2 mains, more important than exactly which sub will be whether you measure your room and equalize them. After measuring my rather large room, I found that the Salon2 had more than enough bass extension to give a flat room response below 20hz, but there were peaks and valleys that would be helped by a sub. After measuring and adding a sub to produce a flat response (working alongside the mains), try playing the sub only and you might be surprised how relatively inaudible the sub's output is.

You did mention that you wanted to add a sub mainly for movies, and for that purpose I guess high output is a bigger goal.
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post #9373 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 07:06 AM
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I figured I'd ask here before I freak out. I was listen to my F208s last night and all the sudden it went muffled. I have it hooked up to a Marantz receiver that has an integrated amplifier but I was using an Emotiva 300 watt per channel amp. This morning I disconnected the amp, to see if that was the problem and connected I straight to the Marantz. It seems as if only the middle driver is at play. Any advice?
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post #9374 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 09:41 AM
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Ugh, little scary; were you blasting music or at normal levels?? Check your speaker wire connections; good luck


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Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parsound P5 Preamp & A21 amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polks LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #9375 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 11:12 AM
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I figured I'd ask here before I freak out. I was listen to my F208s last night and all the sudden it went muffled. I have it hooked up to a Marantz receiver that has an integrated amplifier but I was using an Emotiva 300 watt per channel amp. This morning I disconnected the amp, to see if that was the problem and connected I straight to the Marantz. It seems as if only the middle driver is at play. Any advice?
Loose or missing jumper/strap between the High and Low inputs?
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post #9376 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TRIPTON80 View Post
I figured I'd ask here before I freak out. I was listen to my F208s last night and all the sudden it went muffled. I have it hooked up to a Marantz receiver that has an integrated amplifier but I was using an Emotiva 300 watt per channel amp. This morning I disconnected the amp, to see if that was the problem and connected I straight to the Marantz. It seems as if only the middle driver is at play. Any advice?
If you have the same results plugged directly into the Marantz then you've eliminated the Emotiva as a potential problem. As the other posters had mentioned, check the cabling and jumper straps. Howevver, I would doubt that is the issue if both speakers exhibit the same behaviour. Chances of both speakers and associated cables having issues at the same time are highly unlikely. What I would suspect is something in the receiver itself.

If you have another source device like a CD player with RCA outputs plug that directly into the Emotiva and see if you are still having sound issues. If you are still having issues then it is indeed the speakers or cables. If not, you'll know your receiver has an issue. If it's the receiver try resetting it. Essentially, you want to systematically rule out each part in the chain one at a time until you find out where the failure is.
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post #9377 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 01:21 PM
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I did have it at a higher level buts been higher then that. I had it bi-wired. I put the jumpers back on and it still had the issue. I called the guy at my local dealer. He said he'll reach out to Revel to see what they recommend but he thinks the tweeter is blown and considering the mid range is getting nothing to it he thinks the crossover is gone too.
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post #9378 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 01:25 PM
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I hate to interrupt a 911 text but I would love some feedback from anyone using class D amplification with their revels?
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post #9379 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 01:29 PM
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The problem is too that the damage is done so I'm not sure that it wasn't the amp. I am in the process of starting the hookup from scratch. I have umc 200 I can plug in but it'll require the amp to be used.
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post #9380 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 02:03 PM
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Okay. Hooked everything up again. Still nothing coming out of the tweeter and midrange. Center channel works. I've got the amp and umc 200 hooked up. I'm still trying figure out where the problem lies. My wires aren't the best but never had a problem with them. The amp is being very touchy though. Is there anyway to test the amp?
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post #9381 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 02:16 PM
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Amp may have gone into oscillation and fried your tweeters and midrange drivers. You can't hear ultrasonic oscillation, but pushing it through speakers at high levels will fry voice coils.

If the amp is "being very touchy", don't hook it up to more speakers. It needs to go to a tech to be checked out with load resistors, put on a 'scope etc to see what's going on.
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post #9382 of 10160 Old 02-19-2017, 03:09 PM
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Okay. Hooked everything up again. Still nothing coming out of the tweeter and midrange. Center channel works. I've got the amp and umc 200 hooked up. I'm still trying figure out where the problem lies. My wires aren't the best but never had a problem with them. The amp is being very touchy though. Is there anyway to test the amp?
Move the L and then R to the center speaker cables one at a time and if it is still the same then I'd say your speakers have an issue.
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post #9383 of 10160 Old 02-20-2017, 05:51 AM
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Amazing feedback and help in a time of need. Thank you all. I've got an email into Harmon's rep. We're going to be chatting at some point today to see what they recommend on going about getting them back up and running. If I had to guess, the amp did oscillate. So I'll be in touch with Emotiva today. They've always been helpful. The bad part is that you save up to upgrade and then something goes wrong. Hope it doesn't get to expensive replacing the tweeter and possible crossover. My local guy said it's very strange because both towers did the same thing. He thought at first that I was talking about the center. Sorry about interrupt on the thread as I've learned all I know mainly from this thread so thanks again.
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post #9384 of 10160 Old 02-20-2017, 07:32 AM
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Before you hook things up again after all repairs, make sure your speaker cables aren't shorting somewhere. Start with a simple non-bi-wire hook up (use the jumpers) and test things at low level to make sure all drivers are working. Do both channels at the same time to make sure the amp is stable. Push level up but be prepared to turn things off immediately if something starts to sound wrong.

If you do a bi-wire hook up, make sure all your wiring is correct and clean, no wires shorting. Positive to positive, negative to negative, don't cross things up.

Make sure all your line level cables are OK too. Out of preamp into power amp, cables have to not have problems. One bad connection (just a few wires shorting hot to ground) can cause problems.
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Last edited by Rex Anderson; 02-20-2017 at 07:49 AM.
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post #9385 of 10160 Old 02-20-2017, 09:16 AM
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Thanks Rex! While my system is down I think I will pick up some new wires, hopefully at a good price. Emotiva's said they can repair the amp with just the cost of shipping. The Revel rep was on it and very helpful stating he'll get me up and running asap and without killing my pocketbook.
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post #9386 of 10160 Old 02-20-2017, 09:35 AM
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Thanks Rex! While my system is down I think I will pick up some new wires, hopefully at a good price. Emotiva's said they can repair the amp with just the cost of shipping. The Revel rep was on it and very helpful stating he'll get me up and running asap and without killing my pocketbook.

May I ask which model of Emotiva amplifier you own?
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post #9387 of 10160 Old 02-20-2017, 09:39 AM
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I got most of my cables from Blue Jeans Cable. Good cables, good prices. https://www.bluejeanscable.com/

You can't go wrong with Canare or Belden speaker cable.

I use Mogami W2549 cable for balanced and W2497 for unbalanced interconnects.

Redco can make anything you want. http://www.redco.com/

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post #9388 of 10160 Old 02-20-2017, 09:59 AM
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I got most of my cables from Blue Jeans Cable. Good cables, good prices. https://www.bluejeanscable.com/ You can't go wrong with Canare or Belden speaker cable. I use Mogami W2549 cable for balanced and W2497 for unbalanced interconnects. Redco can make anything you want. http://www.redco.com/
Or Markertek by all my wires from them, they also can do custom

Mogami is more expensive than Canare and Belden. Canaree has Gold connector XLR

They have multiple colors

http://www.markertek.com/product/msc...le-3-foot-blue

http://www.markertek.com/product/sc6...le-6-foot-blue

http://www.markertek.com/product/bsc...le-6-foot-gray
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post #9389 of 10160 Old 02-20-2017, 11:36 AM
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Emotiva XPA 3 gen 2
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post #9390 of 10160 Old 02-20-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Hey @John Schuermann !

I'll dig out Floyd Toole's book again and look this up, but as I remember, he says the center channel should always be set to "small" because there is not much low end material there anyway. What are you using for your center channel and what is the crossover frequency?

I know there is plenty of low frequency material in surround channels (helicopters, bombs etc), so more low end extension is desirable.

If your system is using full range L/R and a sub (or multiple subs), how do you set your crossover? How much low frequency extension do you need from surround speakers if your subs are handling a lot of it?

I see 80 Hz as a crossover for a lot of system recommendations, but that seems high to me (low E string on a guitar). I think of bass more around 80 Hz down to 40 Hz (low E on bass guitar) and subsonic stuff below that.

If a main full range speaker is crossing over at 80 Hz with the sub, that frequency seems too high to me for both speakers. Obviously this depends on what main speakers and what subs.

Say we're talking about JBL M2's, Revel Salon2's etc paired with the right subs?

Say I wanted to add one sub (all that will fit in my living room) to my Revel F208's. What do you recommend? I'd love to get a JL Audio F112 (had a pair at work), but over my budget.

We watched "Arrival" a few nights ago and I felt the need for a sub. I have also been wanting to get a pair of Revel 763L's put in the ceiling to get 5.1 surround going again. Finally settled in the house and tired of living with just an L/C/R system. The F208's are great for 2 channel music listening and LCR is OK for TV, but Blu-Ray movies really need at least 5.1 which is all the room will accommodate.

Thanks for your insight.
You can certainly set your x-over lower than 80Hz but if you have a good set of subs I would ask why?
Even with monster amps you're asking them to drive some potentially very demanding loads.
Any decent sub can easily handle 80Hz material and it doesn't require expensive amps to drive then as the amps are only required to drive a narrow frequency band.
I know several people with large very capable floor standing speakers and none of them set any of their speakers to large, i.e., full range for soundtracks.

Just my opinion, but spending the money required for a Revel, JL or most other full line speaker manufacturers is totally unnecessary.
There are lots of companies that specialize in subwoofers, do them very well and offer way better value.
SVSound, Rythmik, PowerSound, HSU all make very capable subs.

You didn't specifically say but I'm assuming your music\movie room is multi-purpose, like a living room, den etc.

I would recommend Rythmik subs as they make excellent smallish form factor subs that won't break the bank.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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