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post #9601 of 9627 Old 04-14-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
I know this is going to sound like voodoo but referring to the discussions above about speakers that only sound great with great recordings.
The thing that convinced me to buy Revel speakers was their voodoo ability to bring out the best in recordings without hiding the shortcomings.
Trust me, crappy recordings still sound crappy but CDs I have that were what I call marginal sounded better than I'd ever heard them.
I agree with this. The way you expressed it - that Revel speakers bring out the best in recordings without hiding the shortcomings - is very well put

My JBL LSR708s, on the other hand, are much less forgiving. But then they are designed for critical mastering applications.

I think the overall point is that good recordings help eliminate the quality of the recording as the variable when evaluating speakers.

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post #9602 of 9627 Old 04-14-2017, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
I always knew I hated you.
Now I'm positive.

I know this is going to sound like voodoo but referring to the discussions above about speakers that only sound great with great recordings.
The thing that convinced me to buy Revel speakers was their voodoo ability to bring out the best in recordings without hiding the shortcomings.
Trust me, crappy recordings still sound crappy but CDs I have that were what I call marginal sounded better than I'd ever heard them.

I'll give an example, Fleetwood Mac Bare Trees & Future Games.
Brilliant music but never audiophile award winners.
I'd heard these discs on my system that had a BAT CD player, BAT tube pre & power amp with Waveform Mach speakers.
If anyone reading this knows about the gear above, you're as old a bastard as I am.
Anyway, these recordings sounded grainy & thin on gear that at the time was pretty high-end stuff.
I fault the BAT CD player mostly for the deficiency.

The same recordings on an Oppo105, Anthem D2 pre, Emotiva XPA-1Ls and Studio2s sounds beautiful.
I'm not going to try and explain it other than it is true.

There are many other examples like this for me.
Another one is the Elvis Is Back! SACD .
The track Fever is literally like having The King and his band in my living room.
No exaggeration. A holographic experience in mid-air.
That is what it's all about
Totally agree, Elvis's version of Fever is far and away the best I've ever heard! I have the CD of "Elvis is Back", a great album.

Brad
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post #9603 of 9627 Old 04-14-2017, 05:58 PM
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Totally agree, Elvis's version of Fever is far and away the best I've ever heard! I have the CD of "Elvis is Back", a great album.
One last thing.
I didn't mean to imply that the Elvis is back SACD wouldn't sound anything but fantastic on any good system but that the Revels take it to a whole nother level.

 

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post #9604 of 9627 Old 04-19-2017, 12:29 PM
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Revel ultima2 + Mark Levinson amp

Hello friends. Last November I decided to upgrade my Revel F206 and C205 with Ultima2 Studio and voice. I asked for some help what amp i should buy to power these speakers and I got so many helpful answers. I decided to buy Mark Levinson 533H because I got a great deal from my Harman dealer. John Schuermann suggested it's a good idea to go with this amp because Revel use Mark Levinson to power their speakers. Thank you John. So I placed the order in December and finally almost 4 months later I got the speakers and the amp. Now my system is up and running and the only thing I can say is WOW. It is only 5.1 but sounds great I'd like to thank everyone for the help.
Cheers
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post #9605 of 9627 Old 04-19-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Sanctuary View Post
Hello friends. Last November I decided to upgrade my Revel F206 and C205 with Ultima2 Studio and voice. I asked for some help what amp i should buy to power these speakers and I got so many helpful answers. I decided to buy Mark Levinson 533H because I got a great deal from my Harman dealer. John Schuermann suggested it's a good idea to go with this amp because Revel use Mark Levinson to power their speakers. Thank you John. So I placed the order in December and finally almost 4 months later I got the speakers and the amp. Now my system is up and running and the only thing I can say is WOW. It is only 5.1 but sounds great I'd like to thank everyone for the help.
Cheers
You're welcome!

Jealous
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post #9606 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Sanctuary View Post
Hello friends. Last November I decided to upgrade my Revel F206 and C205 with Ultima2 Studio and voice. I asked for some help what amp i should buy to power these speakers and I got so many helpful answers. I decided to buy Mark Levinson 533H because I got a great deal from my Harman dealer. John Schuermann suggested it's a good idea to go with this amp because Revel use Mark Levinson to power their speakers. Thank you John. So I placed the order in December and finally almost 4 months later I got the speakers and the amp. Now my system is up and running and the only thing I can say is WOW. It is only 5.1 but sounds great I'd like to thank everyone for the help.
Cheers
Only 5.1?

 

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post #9607 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctuary View Post
Hello friends. Last November I decided to upgrade my Revel F206 and C205 with Ultima2 Studio and voice. I asked for some help what amp i should buy to power these speakers and I got so many helpful answers. I decided to buy Mark Levinson 533H because I got a great deal from my Harman dealer. John Schuermann suggested it's a good idea to go with this amp because Revel use Mark Levinson to power their speakers. Thank you John. So I placed the order in December and finally almost 4 months later I got the speakers and the amp. Now my system is up and running and the only thing I can say is WOW. It is only 5.1 but sounds great I'd like to thank everyone for the help.
Cheers
Hello,
Congrats on your upgrade! Are you using the 206s for your rear surrounds?
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post #9608 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Only 5.1?
Unfortunately yes. I live in an apartment and my space is limited.
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post #9609 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 01:44 PM
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Hello,
Congrats on your upgrade! Are you using the 206s for your rear surrounds?
Thank you. I was using F206 as front left and right. I will move them to the bedroom now. My surrounds are Revel Performa S206. They blend fine with the ultima2 studios and voice.
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post #9610 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctuary View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post
Hello,
Congrats on your upgrade! Are you using the 206s for your rear surrounds?
Thank you. I was using F206 as front left and right. I will move them to the bedroom now. My surrounds are Revel Performa S206. They blend fine with the ultima2 studios and voice.
What amp were you running with F206 combo?

Just curious if the electronics made any difference.
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post #9611 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 02:59 PM
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FYI, for anyone in the Chicago / Rosemont Area this weekend, here's what Harman / Revel has lined up at AXPONA:

Room 502
Meet Kevin Voecks, Revel Salon2’s. Friday, April 21, 2017 from 9:30 am to 12:30 pm.
Meet Kevin Voecks, Mark Levinson No519. Friday, April 21, 2017 from 9:30 am to 12:30 pm.

Room: Rosemont 4
Meet Kevin Voecks Saturday, April 22 from 9am – 6pm Revel Salon2 loudspeakers paired with Mark Levinson electronics
Meet Kevin Voecks Saturday, April 22 from 9am – 6pm New 500 series from Mark Levinson with JBL and Revel loudspeakers

Room 1235
Join Kevin Voecks and experience the Revel Performa F228 Loudspeakers Friday, April 21, 2017 from 1:30 pm – 5:30 pm
Join Kevin Voecks and experience the Mark Levinson No500 series Friday, April 21, 2017 from 1:30 pm – 5:30 pm

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post #9612 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
What amp were you running with F206 combo?

Just curious if the electronics made any difference.
I was using Denon AVR 4520. Now it is powering only the surrounds. When I was using the Denon to power the F206 and was turning up the volume the speakers started to sound, how to say it, strained and thin. Based on my experience I can say that a receiver is not a good idea to power F206. I think a separate amp will do the job better.
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post #9613 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
FYI, for anyone in the Chicago / Rosemont Area this weekend, here's what Harman / Revel has lined up at AXPONA:



Room 502

Meet Kevin Voecks, Revel Salon2’s. Friday, April 21, 2017 from 9:30 am to 12:30 pm.

Meet Kevin Voecks, Mark Levinson No519. Friday, April 21, 2017 from 9:30 am to 12:30 pm.



Room: Rosemont 4

Meet Kevin Voecks Saturday, April 22 from 9am – 6pm Revel Salon2 loudspeakers paired with Mark Levinson electronics

Meet Kevin Voecks Saturday, April 22 from 9am – 6pm New 500 series from Mark Levinson with JBL and Revel loudspeakers



Room 1235

Join Kevin Voecks and experience the Revel Performa F228 Loudspeakers Friday, April 21, 2017 from 1:30 pm – 5:30 pm

Join Kevin Voecks and experience the Mark Levinson No500 series Friday, April 21, 2017 from 1:30 pm – 5:30 pm


Nothing on the Be series?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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post #9614 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 05:33 PM
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Unfortunately yes. I live in an apartment and my space is limited.
I was just being facetious.
I have Studio2s in 2-channel system.
Can't say enough good things about them.

So far what do you notice between the F206 & the Studios?
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post #9615 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
FYI, for anyone in the Chicago / Rosemont Area this weekend, here's what Harman / Revel has lined up at AXPONA:

Room 1235
Join Kevin Voecks and experience the Revel Performa F228 Loudspeakers Friday, April 21, 2017 from 1:30 pm – 5:30 pm
F228?
Is this the Be model?

 

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I was just being facetious.
I have Studio2s in 2-channel system.
Can't say enough good things about them.

So far what do you notice between the F206 & the Studios?
I didn't have enough time to listen to them. But the first thing I noticed is the bass of studios is much better. I like heavy metal and the difference between f206 and studios is obvious. Voices are clearer as well. The studios are more dynamic when I turn up the volume. And I can make these conclusions only from about 2-3 hours of listening to music.
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post #9617 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
FYI, for anyone in the Chicago / Rosemont Area this weekend, here's what Harman / Revel has lined up at AXPONA:

Room 1235
Join Kevin Voecks and experience the Revel Performa F228 Loudspeakers Friday, April 21, 2017 from 1:30 pm ? 5:30 pm
F228?
Is this the Be model?
I believe so, the Revel Facebook refers to it also and has a pic of the Be/ceramic cones in a white cabinet.
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post #9618 of 9627 Old 04-20-2017, 09:45 PM
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Confirmed - the F228 is the new model number for the F208Be. Makes it easier to keep them straight
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post #9619 of 9627 Old 04-23-2017, 07:35 PM
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I heard the F228's today. Probably one of my top 5 at the event. Curious how the new book shelves will sound! Sadly the speakers I really want are $65K...
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post #9620 of 9627 Old Yesterday, 04:18 PM
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I heard the F228's today. Probably one of my top 5 at the event. Curious how the new book shelves will sound! Sadly the speakers I really want are $65K...
Listen to the Revel Salon2s - no speaker has yet to beat it in the double blind listening tests at Harman. A steal at $22K per pair. See below for more

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post #9621 of 9627 Old Yesterday, 04:33 PM
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I had a great e-mail exchange with Dr. Floyd Toole himself over the weekend, and he gave me permission to post much of the discussion here. If you look at the pics below, you can see what Dr. Toole chose for his own personal home theater / listening space - Revel Salon2s paired with a Voice2 center and Gem2 surrounds! I think we would all agree that Dr. Toole knows as well as anyone on the planet what constitutes good sound, and I think his choices (and thoughts) are illuminating 😊 Pics of his new listening room are at the bottom of this post.

Here are some of his comments, which also touch on something else I’ve been harping on - that Room EQ above transition is a really bad idea, especially with truly accurate speakers like the Revels in his theater. To put this in perspective, the initial topic was Dr. Toole’s upcoming Third Edition of his book, Sound Reproduction:

There is a lot of new content, especially focused on cinema sound and how the X-curve and calibration processes are based on faulty data. I make a direct attack on "room EQ" which I regard as a disease in our industry - except at low frequencies, of course. There it can work for a single listener, unless one employs a multi-sub strategy to reduce seat-to-seat variations.Without trustworthy anechoic data on the loudspeakers it is not possible to interpret a steady-state room curve, and without interpretation one has no idea of what is causing what is seen in the curves, and what remedial measures must be taken. EQ is very limited in what it can do and some of the most common problems in loudspeakers can only be corrected with a better loudspeaker.

Acoustic treatments are discussed in some detail, but due to space limitations the rest of it will be have to be covered in the website that will accompany the book. As you know, above the transition frequency room treatment is much less of a factor if one starts with well designed loudspeakers. I attach photos of my entertainment room illustrating that absolutely superb sound can be delivered in a room that does not look "technical". That was my goal many years ago. I jokingly claim that the secret is the acoustical scattering from the bronze sculptures :-) The real solution is in the loudspeakers.

The wall mounted inverted Salon2s are remarkably unobtrusive for such large speakers. The trick was to make these large heavy loudspeakers earthquake safe - I have a super builder!!! Gem2s provide surrounds that are perfect timbral matches. Two more will be installed at the +/- 60 deg locations. It is as good as any sound I have ever experienced and it is in a room that looks more like an art gallery than a home theater. There is a 10 ft screen the rolls down for front projection.

Four subs are in a Sound Field Managed configuration so the bass is smooth and resonance free down to about 17 Hz. No bass traps required. Elevation speakers are yet to be installed. A JBL Synthesis/Trinnov processor is planned for control.

As I now have time to listen more - TIDAL is wonderful! - I realize even more than before that the true weak link in audio is the recording. I like comparing 10 versions of the same movement in a classical recording. They are horrendously variable in the sophistication of directional and spatial rendering and in timbre. One still needs tone controls for serious listening, but the directional and spatial qualities are often impossible to fix. A neutral playback system is unforgiving of these defects.

In a follow-up today, Dr. Toole lamented the current state of film sound (which goes directly to all the recent discussion about dynamics, volume, trying to reproduce theatrical levels, etc):

In the old book I wrote a small section (18.2.6) on it, saying that there was no science behind the cinema and dubbing stage calibration process. A film sound mixer read it, agreed, and managed to get SMPTE interested in investigating the status of film sound. Long story short, they invited me to be involved, many measurements were done, the results were a mess - some immaculately calibrated facilities sounded significantly better if the calibration equalization was turned off. Add to this the fact that the X-curve is the wrong target curve and it is easy to understand why going to a movie is not always a sonically rewarding experience.

Sometime soon there is hope that work will begin on a new standard. However the traditions and folklore propagated within the industry have lasting effects. That, and the poor financial state of cinemas these days are not encouraging signs that change may happen. My feedback from industry sources indicates that immersive audio is not taking off as the moneymakers had hoped - rather like 3D visuals. Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with better - at least acceptable - home systems, and the scarcity of intelligent dialog and plots in many of the movies.

The current topic of internal discussion in SMPTE has to do with excessive loudness in many movies, which get turned down by cinema owners, with the regrettable loss in dialog intelligibility. Another mess, driven by directors who want their movie to be the loudest on the block. Compression is widespread - as is hearing loss among the mixers who aren't wise enough to wear musicians earplugs.

A good home theater is the place to be. I enjoy well recorded music concerts as much as movies. The multichannel sound tracks can be excellent - but not always.




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post #9622 of 9627 Old Yesterday, 04:56 PM
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Awesome John, thx so much for posting this!! Hope all is well, Tom (in NJ)
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post
I heard the F228's today. Probably one of my top 5 at the event. Curious how the new book shelves will sound! Sadly the speakers I really want are $65K...
Listen to the Revel Salon2s - no speaker has yet to beat it in the double blind listening tests at Harman. A steal at $22K per pair. See below for more
I did, what I liked best about them was how easy they were to listen too yet very detailed. It was pretty loud, but didn't feel fatigued. With my limited listening of the 228's, I just don't think I could justify Salon 2's for my needs. Still wish there would be a upgraded F206 because that would be more in my range and needs.
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hello all Revel owners !

i have received much help from these threads so i want to say thanks ahead of time.

i just moved and in process of setting up my home theater:

Revel F206's for FL & FR, C-208 as center, S16's as surrounds and an older ML depth for sub
Marantz AV7701 processor and MM7055 amp
Sony XBR 75x940d

--strangest thing ever - i cannot get my C-208 to work and when i go to do the audessy calibration setup, it does not register.

i have interconnect going from AV7701 to the amp and i have speaker cable (straight-wire brand) going from speaker to amp

--as you guys know, not a complex setup at all. i know the processor and amp are working fine as all other speakers are working. also, i check all connections to make sure fully plugged in and not compromised in any way - all seems to look fine.

none of this equipment is over 18 months old - so i am at a loss of what to try next.

not even sure how i can test any other way..

any suggestions would really help.

thanks,
JJ
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Originally Posted by JJ Cruzzz View Post
hello all Revel owners !

i have received much help from these threads so i want to say thanks ahead of time.

i just moved and in process of setting up my home theater:

Revel F206's for FL & FR, C-208 as center, S16's as surrounds and an older ML depth for sub
Marantz AV7701 processor and MM7055 amp
Sony XBR 75x940d

--strangest thing ever - i cannot get my C-208 to work and when i go to do the audessy calibration setup, it does not register.

i have interconnect going from AV7701 to the amp and i have speaker cable (straight-wire brand) going from speaker to amp

--as you guys know, not a complex setup at all. i know the processor and amp are working fine as all other speakers are working. also, i check all connections to make sure fully plugged in and not compromised in any way - all seems to look fine.

none of this equipment is over 18 months old - so i am at a loss of what to try next.

not even sure how i can test any other way..

any suggestions would really help.

thanks,
JJ
Make sure the switch for that channel is set to whichever connection you are using (Balanced/Unbalanced), Have a DVM?, ohm out the speaker and cabling
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Make sure the switch for that channel is set to whichever connection you are using (Balanced/Unbalanced), Have a DVM?, ohm out the speaker and cabling
hey Laserjock - i will check to make sure it is switched to unbalanced (what connection i am suing) may have got moved during set-up.

i do not have a DVM...

hoping it is just the unbalanced switch

thanks for your input!
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Other diagnostic steps are:

1) Hook the speaker up to any other amp output that is confirmed working and confirm you get sound from the speaker. If you get sound, this rules out the speaker cable and the speaker itself.

2) Swap inputs on the amp (at both the amp end of the cable and the pre-pro end of the cable) to rule out a bad channel on the amp or a bad cable between the pre-pro and the amp.

If the speaker, speaker cable, amp, and cable between the pre-pro and the amp all check out OK, then you've got either a configuration issue in the pre-pro or the pre-pro needs to go out for service.

Basic process of elimination should tell you what the culprit is here.
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