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post #9631 of 10144 Old 04-26-2017, 01:18 PM
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BTW, all Revel owners and potential Revel owners should take some time to check out these posts I made in the JBL Synthesis / Revel thread about the new JBL SDP75 Surround Processor. Within the next few months it will have the ability to load in anechoic data for each and every Revel speaker model, allowing for unprecedented levels of accuracy for EQ and calibration of surround systems incorporating Revel / JBL speakers. This is a genuinely exciting, true high fidelity surround processor. The SDP75 is available in true 16, 24 and 32 channel configurations (not "faux 16 channel," like some of the processors released recently).

I'm trying to keep discussion in the JBL Synthesis / Revel thread, so check out these posts here:

Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread

You can read Kevin Voecks' comments about the unit here - truly exciting stuff:

Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread
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post #9632 of 10144 Old 04-26-2017, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
BTW, all Revel owners and potential Revel owners should take some time to check out these posts I made in the JBL Synthesis / Revel thread about the new JBL SDP75 Surround Processor. Within the next few months it will have the ability to load in anechoic data for each and every Revel speaker model, allowing for unprecedented levels of accuracy for EQ and calibration of surround systems incorporating Revel / JBL speakers. This is a genuinely exciting, true high fidelity surround processor. The SDP75 is available in true 16, 24 and 32 channel configurations (not "faux 16 channel," like some of the processors released recently).



I'm trying to keep discussion in the JBL Synthesis / Revel thread, so check out these posts here:



Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread



You can read Kevin Voecks' comments about the unit here - truly exciting stuff:



Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread


What's something like that going to run us?


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post #9633 of 10144 Old 04-26-2017, 09:46 PM
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What's something like that going to run us?


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Somewhere between a midlevel Honda Accord and a base Acura. Give or take.
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post #9634 of 10144 Old 04-27-2017, 02:19 PM
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What's something like that going to run us?


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Click on the links Full pricing is there.

But, I'll save you some time. Here are the two posts, combined for easy reference:

Here is some tantalizing new info about the JBL SDP-75 surround processor, based on a conversation I just had with those “in the know” at Harman. I can honestly say I am even more excited about this piece than I was previously. There are many, many impressive features and true performance upgrades over competing surround processors, so much more that I can now say that I genuinely feel that the SDP-75 also represents a tremendous value (yes, even at its price point). The SDP75 is so much more than just a surround processor with a higher channel count – it’s a true audiophile product with amazing versatility.

To get right to it:

The SDP75 - along with its cousin, the Trinnov Altitude - is the ONLY surround processor on the market that does not down-convert or re-sample incoming bitstreams – all processing is handled at the native incoming resolution / sample rate, resulting in higher transparency and much higher fidelity.

The SDP75 has Harman’s NEW target curves loaded in, based on the latest research undertaken by Dr. Toole and Dr. Sean Olive’s team—part of the amazing brain trust at Harman. These represent a significant improvement over the previous Synthesis target curves.

New Harman targets described as a “night and day” improvement over previous ARCOS / Synthesis targets during blind listening tests (which is truly impressive, since even the previous ARCOS EQ / targets were scientifically demonstrated to be considerably superior to competing systems during blind listening tests).

The SDP75 is capable of being calibrated using the Trinnov Optimizer microphone and software, and processed using Harman’s own targets and algorithm operation tweaks (in other words, they are using the power of the Optimizer in a different manner than Trinnov). A JBL SDEC Is no longer necessary – all processing can be accomplished inside the SDP75 at the native sampling rate and without additional A-D and D-A conversions, and at a cost savings of $8,000 to $16,000, depending on the number of channels. A calibration accomplished in this manner can be fully Synthesis certified when done by a JBL Synthesis or approved technician.

Almost any conceivable JBL Synthesis or Revel speaker configuration is available as a “preset” in the SDP75, allowing for speakers to be re-purposed for optimum performance no matter which immersive audio codec is chosen (Dolby Atmos, Auro3D, DTS:X). The SDP-75 can apply delays and volume level adjustments to “arrayed” speakers in non-native formats so that all speakers in a system can be employed to cover different format recommended speaker layouts. For example, the SDP75 will take advantage of, say, a 24 channel speaker layout to “map” appropriate sounds to each speaker no matter if the incoming source is Atmos, Auro3D, or DTS:X. The sound can be intelligently re-routed to the appropriate speakers by applying delays and level adjustments for true immersive audio no matter the input codec.

The SDP75 is available in 16, 24 and 32 channel configurations. To determine which is the right model for you, simply add up the number of speakers and subwoofers you will need / want in your system (or have a JBL Synthesis dealer work all that up for you).

Coming ability to lead in detailed anechoic data for each and every JBL Synthesis / Revel speaker model, for every channel (this will also allow the SDP-75 to handle proper EQ / processing for such speakers as the JBL M2 / LSR7 series without special amps or outboard processing)

Pricing:

SDP75-16 channels: $23,500
SDP75-24 channels: $28,000 (shipping in May)
SDP75-32 channels: $31,500

Hoping to have a demo unit in our showroom soon - time to start saving up!


More, direct from Kevin Voecks:

OK, here we go - answers to your SDP75 questions straight from Kevin Voecks, Acoustic Technologies Manager at HARMAN Luxury Audio Group. He's who has been essentially in charge of SDP75 development, so this comes from the top . Some nice surprises here, especially for enthusiasts and for current SDP75 owners:

Hello,

I would like to address the numerous questions that have come up regarding the JBL SDP-75 Surround Processor. John Schuermann has been fantastic about answering questions, and I am delighted and grateful that he is willing to do so. I believe this post will answer the questions that have been posted, and as new questions come up, John and I will do our best to provide timely and accurate information.

The JBL Synthesis ARCOS EQ system has long been acknowledged as a superb EQ system. A few years back, a methodical comparison was made of EQ systems, and most were indeed worse than no EQ. The ARCOS system was clearly superior to the competitors.

Now that we have partnered with Trinnov, we can make use of their state of-the-art platform, which we have adapted and optimized as part of an eco-system for use with JBL Synthesis and Revel loudspeakers in the JBL SDP-75. I could not be more enthusiastic about this change, as it provides far greater flexibility, eliminates unnecessary A-D and D-A converters, saves from $8,000 to $16,000 (depending on the channel count), and sounds superior—utilizing better electronics and the benefit of some of our latest research. Customers who purchased an SDP-75 and wish to utilize the new internal Optimizer software can get a free update to the Optimizer EQ, and can obtain a refund for the SDECs upon request.

SDP-75s now incorporate a new target curve that is a very significant improvement over the previous ARCOS target, with much-improved subwoofer-to-mains integration, apparently much-deeper and tighter bass, and much-smoother high frequencies in blind tests. It results in one of those wonderful “I feel like I am listening to this for the first time” experiences. We have also provided settings, including “advanced settings” that meet our requirements for room EQ, based on our internal research and the experience gained from many ARCOS installations. Together, the result is superb. An alternative target curve and Optimizer configuration provides the ability to equalize only below 400 Hz for two-channel systems, of for those who are fortunate enough to have a system composed of entirely on-axis (or nearly so) speakers.

We are doing research now that will lead to a drop-down selection of JBL Synthesis and Revel speakers, which allows us to provide equalization that cannot be achieved through in-room measurements. I will be able to provide a better time estimate of its availability soon. It will be at no cost to owners, and will provide results superior to any approach based solely on in-room measurements.

In addition, we are working on a next-generation version of Sound Field Management (SFM)! SFM has long been the only way to truly reduce seat-to-seat variations at low frequencies, and the new version “SFM2” version will offer important sonic improvements over the existing SFM system. This will be a no-charge update. I will be able to better-estimate the time of its availability soon. Note that unlike other updates to the Optimizer, SFM will require re-calibration.

Four subwoofers, which is our strongly-recommended configuration, based on Harman research, do indeed utilize four SDP-75 channels, but the savings from not using outboard SDEC equalizers far outweigh the cost of going from a 16-channel to 24-channel SDP-75, or from a 24-channel to 32-channel version. Similarly, bi-amplified speakers utilize two output channels.

We recognize that there are very advanced users who wish to tweak their installations. Therefore, we will make Trinnov 3D microphones available for purchase through our SDP-75 dealers. The settings in the Optimizer are not locked-down, and can be accessed by advanced end-users to adjust as they wish.

We have made a custom cable from Straight Wire available for those who wish to use our JBL Synthesis SDA-8300 and SDA-4600 amplifiers, which use “mini-Phoenix” input connectors. Other amplifiers can use XLR connectors for the first 16 channels, with DB-25 to XLR snakes for either all the channels, or for just the channels above 16.

The currently-shipping SDP-75s have one input and one output that can pass “4K.” The capabilities can be described as 3G, 300MHz, or 9gbps. It will support HDMI resolutions of:

-4K-24/30 Hz, 4.4.4, 8-10-Bit, BT.709;
-4K-24/30 Hz, 4.2.2,10-12 Bit, BT.709
-4K-50/60 Hz, 4.2.0, 8-Bit, BT.709

Just as with the Trinnov Altitude32, the HDMI board is field-replaceable. The forthcoming HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 boards will be supplied, when available, at no cost for the hardware. Our dealers determine the labor cost for replacing the board, which can be done in about 20 minutes. The delay is due to an issue with the silicon vendor, resulting in what we believe will be availability this summer.

Lastly, there have been some questions regarding the SDP-75 U.S. pricing. It is as follows:

SDP75-16 channels: $23,500
SDP75-24 channels: $28,000 (shipping in May)
SDP75-32 channels: $31,500

Enjoy the music and movies!

Best regards,
Kevin
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post #9635 of 10144 Old 04-27-2017, 02:24 PM
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Thanks John. Glad to see we are saving $16,000 thats what I'll tell my wife it's not what you spend, its what you save.


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post #9636 of 10144 Old 04-28-2017, 06:15 AM
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Anyone know if the new M106 with the driver upgrades has an official name? Also what the MSRP if going to me? I like the M106's a lot so curious what this is going to run.
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post #9637 of 10144 Old 04-29-2017, 07:13 PM
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Revel Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post
Anyone know if the new M106 with the driver upgrades has an official name? Also what the MSRP if going to me? I like the M106's a lot so curious what this is going to run.


If they're consistent with the f208 --> F228 maybe M126?


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post #9638 of 10144 Old 04-29-2017, 10:53 PM
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Anyone know if the new M106 with the driver upgrades has an official name? Also what the MSRP if going to me? I like the M106's a lot so curious what this is going to run.
My *guess* would be M116 and about $4,000 - $4,500.
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post #9639 of 10144 Old 04-30-2017, 10:24 AM
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From John Schuermann "Nothing official yet. The M106 is not going away, there will just be a new model - the M126Be - added to the lineup. It will feature a beryllium tweeter, and probably have a retail price 40% more than the current M106. The current M106 will remain as well.

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post #9640 of 10144 Old 05-01-2017, 03:11 PM
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Official model numbers:

F228Be and M126Be.

Waiting on official pricing
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post #9641 of 10144 Old 05-02-2017, 12:15 PM
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@JJ Cruzzz

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post #9642 of 10144 Old 05-03-2017, 03:29 AM
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Is anyone besides me anticipating comparing the F228Be to the Paradigm Persona 3F this Fall?????

Very similar price points, should be interesting. I believe than @John Schuermann represents both brands.

Either speaker paired with the upcoming Anthem STR should be spectacular. Finally a two channel integrated that has room correction for stereo subs. Exciting times in two channel audio.
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post #9643 of 10144 Old 05-03-2017, 05:29 AM
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Either speaker paired with the upcoming Anthem STR should be spectacular. Finally a two channel integrated that has room correction for stereo subs. Exciting times in two channel audio.
FWIW, the ARCAM SR-250 does that.
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post #9644 of 10144 Old 05-03-2017, 07:25 AM
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FWIW, the ARCAM SR-250 does that.
That would be the only Dirac Live product that does 2 sub correction, if true. I have trouble believing that since Dirac Live on it's own only has one channel dedicated for a subwoofer.

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post #9645 of 10144 Old 05-03-2017, 04:39 PM
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That would be the only Dirac Live product that does 2 sub correction, if true. I have trouble believing that since Dirac Live on it's own only has one channel dedicated for a subwoofer.
Ah. I missed the stereo subs phrase which ARCAM cannot do even though it does support 2 subs. OTOH, with the full suite DL, you can specify the number and types of speakers including subs quite freely.

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post #9646 of 10144 Old 05-03-2017, 04:44 PM
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As far as I can tell, you cannot specify more than one sub for independent correction in Dirac Live. I wouldn't be surprised if that changes for Unison though.

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post #9647 of 10144 Old 05-03-2017, 06:02 PM
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As far as I can tell, you cannot specify more than one sub for independent correction in Dirac Live. I wouldn't be surprised if that changes for Unison though.
You can. Use the custom configuration.

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post #9648 of 10144 Old 05-03-2017, 06:32 PM
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Wow, there it is! Thanks.

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post #9649 of 10144 Old 05-03-2017, 07:10 PM
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Wow, there it is! Thanks.
It is noted in the manual but I just stumbled on it a while back.

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post #9650 of 10144 Old 05-04-2017, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Is anyone besides me anticipating comparing the F228Be to the Paradigm Persona 3F this Fall?????

Very similar price points, should be interesting. I believe than @John Schuermann represents both brands.

Either speaker paired with the upcoming Anthem STR should be spectacular. Finally a two channel integrated that has room correction for stereo subs. Exciting times in two channel audio.
I don't have a set of demo Personas in house, but we heard them at CEDIA and were genuinely impressed . Totally with you too about the Anthem Integrated - a high end piece with really good room correction. Should be a great match for either speaker!
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FYI, had John Bagby of Anthem over on Monday, and he went through the Anthem lineup a bit with us (John is the son of Paradigm founder Scott Bagby). A couple of things we went over:

The Anthem keeps all processing (including ARC) at native resolution, up to 192/24. Other than the Trinnov pieces and the SDP75, no other processors do this. With 11 channels of Atmos all going at once, it may reduce resolution, but still remains at above the 48/16 or 48/24 that many other room correction systems default to. Of course, the JBL / Trinnov pieces always remain at full rez.

He stressed the ability of ARC to properly allow for room gain in its calculations, plus the ability to raise or lower the compensation - something the vast majority of the competing room correction systems totally lack (and part of why many of them seem to "emasculate" the bass). I've found many people let Audyssey (or whatever) do the room EQ, then go back in and boost the bass manually by about 3 db or more. John was talking about adjusting the room gain number to either raise or lower the bass in the room. Once you do this, ARC will recalculate the math to make sure everything is still blending properly between room, speaker, and satellite.
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John or any that have experience with revel's C763L in-ceiling speaker. I was wondering about the guidelines for Dolby atmos as far as 45 deg placement. The revel site doesn't specify the speakers dispersion and I'm wondering if the 45 deg holds. The revel installation guide shows the tweeters faced toward the back wall and not the MLP so is that the way I should face them or follow the Atmos guide


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John or any that have experience with revel's C763L in-ceiling speaker. I was wondering about the guidelines for Dolby atmos as far as 45 deg placement. The revel site doesn't specify the speakers dispersion and I'm wondering if the 45 deg holds. The revel installation guide shows the tweeters faced toward the back wall and not the MLP so is that the way I should face them or follow the Atmos guide
Aim the tweeters generally at the MLP, just past the ears. I'm not sure the exact dispersion pattern, but I do know part of the design is the flat diaphragm woofer - it allows the sound from the tweeter / midrange assembly to bounce off the woofer to create an nice, even dispersion pattern. There is still some directivity, of course, from the tweeter / midrange assembly, so that's why you want to angle the speaker in toward the MLP.

Hope that helps!
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FYI, everyone, the Revel F228Be and M126Be will not be shipping until CES 2018 time frame.
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odd...hope for a successful launch

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Aim the tweeters generally at the MLP, just past the ears. I'm not sure the exact dispersion pattern, but I do know part of the design is the flat diaphragm woofer - it allows the sound from the tweeter / midrange assembly to bounce off the woofer to create an nice, even dispersion pattern. There is still some directivity, of course, from the tweeter / midrange assembly, so that's why you want to angle the speaker in toward the MLP.



Hope that helps!




My rear atmos speaker, on the left, is turned slightly behind the mlp the top center, on the right, is turned to about the coffee table in front of the sofa. Is it ideal, I don't know. Does it sound awesome absolutely. Btw, adding the second pair made a big difference.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Aim the tweeters generally at the MLP, just past the ears. I'm not sure the exact dispersion pattern, but I do know part of the design is the flat diaphragm woofer - it allows the sound from the tweeter / midrange assembly to bounce off the woofer to create an nice, even dispersion pattern. There is still some directivity, of course, from the tweeter / midrange assembly, so that's why you want to angle the speaker in toward the MLP.



Hope that helps!


Thanks John and danthony1
John what do mean when you say just past the ears of the mlp? just to the side of the mlp. Angle the speaker toward the side of the mlp?


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post #9658 of 10144 Old 05-05-2017, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks John and danthony1
John what do mean when you say just past the ears of the mlp? just to the side of the mlp. Angle the speaker toward the side of the mlp?
I have mine angled in slightly toward MLP, so that the angle of the tweeters converge at an area a couple of feet behind my head for the front heights, and a couple of feet in front of my head for the rear heights. Just a way to make sure the side seats get good coverage as well.
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post #9659 of 10144 Old 05-05-2017, 11:10 AM
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I've never listened to Revel speakers, how good are they?

I heard on the forums that these speakers give you the best bang for your buck.
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post #9660 of 10144 Old 05-05-2017, 11:19 AM
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Revel Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
I have mine angled in slightly toward MLP, so that the angle of the tweeters converge at an area a couple of feet behind my head for the front heights, and a couple of feet in front of my head for the rear heights. Just a way to make sure the side seats get good coverage as well.


Thanks John I got you
Musicmann777 they do blind tests to ensure that they have the best sounding speakers at any of their price points

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Last edited by veger69; 05-05-2017 at 11:23 AM.
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