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post #10051 of 10072 Old 09-22-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
I have the F206s & love them; but also listened to F36s and almost purchased them. They were fairly close to the Performa 3 series... very impressive

Enjoy!!



Thanks got to play with my sub a little bit.So far I like these a lot.
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post #10052 of 10072 Old 09-22-2017, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
I have the F206s & love them; but also listened to F36s and almost purchased them. They were fairly close to the Performa 3 series... very impressive

Enjoy!!
If I may ask do you run your f206s with a sub?If so what do you have them crossed over at?
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post #10053 of 10072 Old 09-22-2017, 01:11 PM
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Sure; Outlaw Ultra X-12 crossed over at 80 Hz I think; can't check as their at our out of state residence

Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parsound P5 Preamp & A21 amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polks LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #10054 of 10072 Old 09-22-2017, 01:18 PM
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Unless there is some kind of extreme situation, 80 hz is just about always the right setting
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post #10055 of 10072 Old 09-22-2017, 05:22 PM
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Unless there is some kind of extreme situation, 80 hz is just about always the right setting
Thanks John I think you are right and being I am just going to use my Martanz 7008 to drive these it should make it a little better on the amp .What about Dynamic EQ on the Martanz would you turn it on or off for mostly music?

Last edited by Banks1; 09-22-2017 at 05:27 PM.
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post #10056 of 10072 Old 09-22-2017, 05:36 PM
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dynnamic eq isnt bad at low listening levels...if I am -15 or higher i turn dyn eq off...the downside to dyn eq imo is it boosts surround channel info too much.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #10057 of 10072 Old 09-22-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Both will do well. The F36 will play louder and go deeper than the F35. Other than that, sound signatures are the same. If you like to crank it up or have a larger space, go with the F36. Even though you will be pairing with two good subs, the F36 will simply move more air than the F35.

Here are the measurements for both:

F36:



F35:



Either way, a really nice system


The lump at about 2kHz in the lower two curves for both the F35 and F36, and overall rise in the next two curves up in the graph from 2kHz to 7KHz is a result of these speakers being essentially two-way speakers. These lumps and rises are not desirable. The previous Concerta towers and center (likely a much better speaker than the new version) for that matter were three-way. No doubt cost is the reason, but it would have been much better if the new versions were improvements over the previous design, and were three-way speakers; whitepapers aside. Harman's research shows that off-axis response is very important. Trying to match the off axis response of a small tweeter and a much larger driver just doesn't work well (conventional drivers, not compression drivers, not the M2, so don't get excided!). The measurements of the F35 and F36 confirm this fact.

Lots of vendors sell two-way towers with conventional drivers. Harman hasn't been doing that, which is one reason why Harman's speakers have been so good. Anything in the Revel line in the past was excellent for the money, now it would be good to stay with the Performa3 and above.
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post #10058 of 10072 Old 09-23-2017, 12:28 PM
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Cleaning the cabinet of Revel Speakers.

Has anyone cleaned their speaker cabinets with high quality auto wax? I used Mother's Carnuba Gold spray wax and got good results. On my cars I've been testing different spray waxes. Please NO POLISH AS THESE HAVE ABRASIVES or paste wax since they are very messy and could damage the trim plastic on the speakers and accidentally get on the cones. Below is what Harman suggests for cleaning the cabinets on the F208/F206.

Quote:
The cabinet’s wood veneer fi nish does not require routine maintenance.
Cabinet surfaces that have been marked with dust, fi ngerprints, or other
dirt can be cleaned using a soft cloth – preferably micro-fi ber, and high
quality auto wax. Take care not to come in contact with the transducers.

Use caution to avoid contacting the rubberized trim on the top of the
loudspeaker with auto wax. If necessary, the rubberized trim can be
cleaned with denatured alcohol on a microfi ber cloth.
To clean the grille, gently vacuum it using a soft-bristled brush vacuum
attachment with the vacuum cleaner set to the lowest possible suction.





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post #10059 of 10072 Old 09-23-2017, 03:57 PM
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I finally found a place to demo Revel speakers today and I was pretty impressed overall. Like most showrooms, the setups were far from ideal but I still think they sounded great and the Salon 2's were the best speakers I've ever heard bar none. My question is are there ever sales on Revel speakers or do you pretty much just haggle with the salesman? We didn't get into pricing much but I noticed the salesman mentioning the MSRP prices quite often which led me to believe he won't budge much. I was specifically looking at the M16 and M105, hard to tell a big difference between them considering they were in different rooms.
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post #10060 of 10072 Old 09-23-2017, 04:00 PM
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audiogon website is nice. i have bought some stuff there. many sellers are dealers in hiding.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #10061 of 10072 Old 09-23-2017, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
I finally found a place to demo Revel speakers today and I was pretty impressed overall. Like most showrooms, the setups were far from ideal but I still think they sounded great and the Salon 2's were the best speakers I've ever heard bar none. My question is are there ever sales on Revel speakers or do you pretty much just haggle with the salesman? We didn't get into pricing much but I noticed the salesman mentioning the MSRP prices quite often which led me to believe he won't budge much. I was specifically looking at the M16 and M105, hard to tell a big difference between them considering they were in different rooms.
You can talk to @John Schuermann here on the forums. He's an authorized dealer who frequently helps forum members. As a customer of his I'd give him my highest recommendation
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post #10062 of 10072 Old 09-23-2017, 06:21 PM
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And FYI; I have Revel M16s as rear surrounds and love them; great bookshelf speakers & well built
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Primary set-up 5.1.4; Yamaha A2050, Paired w/Parsound P5 Preamp & A21 amp
Revel F206 fronts & Revel M16 rears; Outlaw X12 Sub & 4 RSL C34e in-ceilings

Secondary 5.1: Denon S900W, Polks LSiM703/704C, Polk RC80i in-ceiling rears, RSL Speedwoofer 10s
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post #10063 of 10072 Old Yesterday, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
dynnamic eq isnt bad at low listening levels...if I am -15 or higher i turn dyn eq off...the downside to dyn eq imo is it boosts surround channel info too much.
Which is where the RLO comes in to play.
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post #10064 of 10072 Old Today, 07:57 AM
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@John Schuermann , do you have spins for the current Infinity Reference line?
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post #10065 of 10072 Old Today, 08:26 AM
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@John Schuermann , do you have spins for the current Infinity Reference line?
Or the M16 by chance?
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post #10066 of 10072 Old Today, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
The lump at about 2kHz in the lower two curves for both the F35 and F36, and overall rise in the next two curves up in the graph from 2kHz to 7KHz is a result of these speakers being essentially two-way speakers. These lumps and rises are not desirable. The previous Concerta towers and center (likely a much better speaker than the new version) for that matter were three-way. No doubt cost is the reason, but it would have been much better if the new versions were improvements over the previous design, and were three-way speakers; whitepapers aside. Harman's research shows that off-axis response is very important. Trying to match the off axis response of a small tweeter and a much larger driver just doesn't work well (conventional drivers, not compression drivers, not the M2, so don't get excided!). The measurements of the F35 and F36 confirm this fact.

Lots of vendors sell two-way towers with conventional drivers. Harman hasn't been doing that, which is one reason why Harman's speakers have been so good. Anything in the Revel line in the past was excellent for the money, now it would be good to stay with the Performa3 and above.
From my understanding, the new Concerta2s beat the originals and of course the competitive models during the double blind tests. Of course, the Concerta2s start at $900 per pair and top at out $2000 per pair, while the Performa3s start out at $1500 per pair and go up to $10K per pair.

The 2.5 way Concerta2’s produce excellent spins in its price point. The Concerta2 2.5 have higher efficiency than the their 3 way counterparts, plus the improved tweeter waveguide and lower crossover to the mid-woofer compared to Concerta1 offer a good directivity match. (That last courtesy of Mark Glazer.)
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post #10067 of 10072 Old Today, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44 View Post
@John Schuermann , do you have spins for the current Infinity Reference line?
No, sorry. Not much has been done with Infinity in a while. I will ask, though.
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post #10068 of 10072 Old Today, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
Or the M16 by chance?
Here you go:

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post #10069 of 10072 Old Today, 10:54 AM
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Here's the M105, since you mentioned it above:

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post #10070 of 10072 Old Today, 12:13 PM
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Note the spins are earlier in this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
The lump at about 2kHz in the lower two curves for both the F35 and F36, and overall rise in the next two curves up in the graph from 2kHz to 7KHz is a result of these speakers being essentially two-way speakers. These lumps and rises are not desirable. The previous Concerta towers and center (likely a much better speaker than the new version) for that matter were three-way. No doubt cost is the reason, but it would have been much better if the new versions were improvements over the previous design, and were three-way speakers; whitepapers aside. Harman's research shows that off-axis response is very important. Trying to match the off axis response of a small tweeter and a much larger driver just doesn't work well (conventional drivers, not compression drivers, not the M2, so don't get excided!). The measurements of the F35 and F36 confirm this fact.

Lots of vendors sell two-way towers with conventional drivers. Harman hasn't been doing that, which is one reason why Harman's speakers have been so good. Anything in the Revel line in the past was excellent for the money, now it would be good to stay with the Performa3 and above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
(1)From my understanding, the new Concerta2s beat the originals and of course the competitive models during the double blind tests. Of course, the Concerta2s start at $900 per pair and top at out $2000 per pair, while the Performa3s start out at $1500 per pair and go up to $10K per pair.

The 2.5 way Concerta2’s produce excellent spins in its price point. (2)The Concerta2 2.5 have higher efficiency than the their 3 way counterparts, plus the improved tweeter waveguide and lower crossover to the mid-woofer compared to Concerta1 offer a good directivity match. (That last courtesy of Mark Glazer.)
(1) Your understanding from who? What were the actual results? The spins posted of the new Concerta's aren't wonderful. The actual point is that Revel (Harman) could have built a better three-way for not much more money and improved on the original. Mark Glazer is essentially changing the subject and avoiding the real question, or you asked him the wrong question. Revel choose to get cheap. Harman, now Samsung, could have used some of the money they are going to save from firing these 650 people in the United States on better products (Sept. 14, 2017 announcement).

http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/busin...yoff-650/47880

(2) Amplifier power is inexpensive. The new direction you are indicating here, of choosing better efficiency as a justification for not improving quality, seems the wrong direction. Is this an official announcement from Harman/Samsung or your judgement? Most of the Polk and DevTech products appear to have a higher voltage sensitivity than Revel, is that the new target market? Is Harman taking a whole new direction and just trying to beat these two companies? Leave the amplifier questions up the customer. JBL PRO already makes lots of efficient speakers.

The information you supply from Harman, and your contacts at Harman/Samsung are very valuable. The loudspeaker shootout covered on another post was very interesting. However, your latest post seems to be more from a salesman than a valuable provider of information.
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post #10071 of 10072 Old Today, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
(1) Your understanding from who? What were the actual results? The spins posted of the new Concerta's aren't wonderful. The actual point is that Revel (Harman) could have built a better three-way for not much more money and improved on the original. Mark Glazer is essentially changing the subject and avoiding the real question, or you asked him the wrong question. Revel choose to get cheap. Harman, now Samsung, could have used some of the money they are going to save from firing these 650 people in the United States on better products (Sept. 14, 2017 announcement).

http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/busin...yoff-650/47880

(2) Amplifier power is inexpensive. The new direction you are indicating here, of choosing better efficiency as a justification for not improving quality, seems the wrong direction. Is this an official announcement from Harman/Samsung or your judgement? Most of the Polk and DevTech products appear to have a higher voltage sensitivity than Revel, is that the new target market? Is Harman taking a whole new direction and just trying to beat these two companies? Leave the amplifier questions up the customer. JBL PRO already makes lots of efficient speakers.

The information you supply from Harman, and your contacts at Harman/Samsung are very valuable. The loudspeaker shootout covered on another post was very interesting. However, your latest post seems to be more from a salesman than a valuable provider of information.
I was there at Northridge during double blind sessions with the Concerta2 series against KEF, Polk, Monitor, and B&W models. The session I sat in on had eight people in the room - seven preferred the Concerta2 model (FWIW, one person preferred the Monitor, which sounded bright to me). This was not an "official" session, as I think the critical listening sessions are done with single listeners (obviously our session had numerous people off axis). When we were at Northridge we talked to Kevin Voecks, Mark Glazer, Ron Rouse, etc. The only reason I say "from my understanding" is because I was not there for the listening sessions against the older Concerta models. However, I was there for the session described above.

I never want to speak definitively about something I was not present for. However, our visit to Northridge in August 2015 literally coincided with the final testing of the Concerta2 line, so it was definitely a topic of conversation among all the people named above. I just don't remember who it was who commented that they verified superiority over previous Concerta models during the double blind test, so I'm not going to quote anyone.

I guess I'm not getting your point - the Concerta2 is an entry level line. It was created to deliver good sound at a price point while keeping an eye on current trends in the market. While your point about amplifier power is of course valid, we have to keep in mind what a speaker like the Concerta2 is likely to be paired with - a typical AVR, which does not have power to spare when 9 to 11 channels are being driven at once. The Concerta2 line was developed with those typical applications in mind. And it was "shot out" extensively with other speakers at its price point, and came out the winner. I have THAT information directly from one of the top engineers at Harman (I also know what speaker came in second, FWIW). I am not going to quote that person here as I don't have permission. However, you are more than welcome to PM me.

RE: salesman. Kind of a low blow, IMO. I am trying to provide accurate information here to the very best of my ability. The fact that I also understand the "sales" part of the equation is not a negative, also IMO. It simply means I understand the rationale behind hitting a price point, keeping an eye on market trends, and trying to deliver best sound for the dollar. The fact that the Concerta2 did in fact beat competing speakers in the double blind tests demonstrates their value, once more IMO. To me, wanting to deliver good sound at that magical "under $2K per pair" price point is a worthwhile endeavor.
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post #10072 of 10072 Old Today, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
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Here's the M105, since you mentioned it above:

Thanks I've seen the 105s before, they are obviously the more accurate speaker but due to the cost of the M16 I'm trying to make myself like them haha, I'm going to have to go back and really compare them more I think.
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