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post #91 of 127 Old 09-03-2006, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Zues View Post

How many times have you heard revealing speakers sound great with good recordings, but crappy with bad recordings? And usally rock and metal also sound crappy, "usally" with these types of speakers.. I guess thats my point, speakers that sound better for rock and metal will probably be better for home theater imo. a good classsical sounding speaker usally is not good for rock, metal, poor recordings. I dont think its different for home theater.

A lot of "crappy" rock/metal recordings have a lot of purposeful distortion in them and this makes many cones go into full resonance mode while a nice polite acoustic CD won't.

I'll give you an example. I listened to Porcupine Tree (thick recording with lots of energy) on my $1800/pr speakers and felt it was a big grungy in the upper mids and I was disappointed. CD? Or speakers? So, I put my far more revealing and transparent $6000/pr speakers and the recording sounded cleaner, easier on the ears and you could hear more of the recording. So, my less expensive speakers simply don't handle this level of upper midrange energy as easily as the $6000/pr speakers.

There was a review of a speaker in TAS in which the guy claimed the old version of the speakers were so "revealing" that it made 90% of his CDs sound like crap and only light acoustic stuff sounded good. But the new ones filtered all the grunge and cleaned up his CDs. That was so laughably stupid it almost put me in the hospital from having a seizure.

A truly *great* speaker will improve the sound of any CD but it will also magnify the differences. It will *not* make a CD sound "bad", it will simply reveal it deficiencies relative to other CDs more obviously.

John
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post #92 of 127 Old 09-03-2006, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by runnerlk View Post

I am in the process of doing a similar comparison though after listening to the B&W 803s with the HTM3s they were eliminated, just didn't sound as musical as others yet driven by Macintosh gear. i am seriously considering the Focal 1027BE or the Revel performa F52 with C52, but i am intrigued at the pricing on some 937BEs on Audiogon. My questions:

1) Obviously, what are the differences, I have never heard the 937BE but love the sound of the 1027.

2) There doesn't seem to be a matching BE center for the 937BE, what would I use?

3) Has anyone compared the 1027 to the F52? I've heard both with my reference music, but at different stores with different sources.

I have:

B&K ref 50 PrePro
B&K 200.7 Amp
Denon 5910
Toshiba HD-1A
Kirksaeter Silverline 220 and CC
Mirage OmniStat rears
dedicated A/V room with
Panny 900U and Stewart greyhawk screen.

Thanks,

Lou

Runnerlk,

I was set on the 803S or 803D before I heard 1027 be. We actually auditioned the full line of Thiel and Revel in the same store. After listening to them and a couple of others we decided that we would stick with the B&W. Revel was much better then Thiel IMO but I prefer the sound of the 803D and even the 803S to the sound of the Revel.

As we were leaving the store our sales guy asked if we had time to listen to one more set of speakers. We said yes and he proceeded to lead us to another show room where he had the Focal 1027 Be hooked up to two Class's 400w mono blocks. We handed him our demo CD's and the rest is history.

The 1027 Be was the ONLY speakers that we heard that day that blew us away. We were so set on B&W that it had to take one hell of a speaker to change our minds and the 1027 Be did just that.

-Sam
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post #93 of 127 Old 09-03-2006, 05:39 PM
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refer previous thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583121

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post #94 of 127 Old 09-03-2006, 09:19 PM
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Quote:


and he proceeded to lead us to another show room

Did you contrast them in the same room, on the same gear after that?

I think it would be generally more useful if everyone new to these forums is reminded that they are constantly being marketed to and pitched by people who post their affiliations and many others who do not. This is all part of marketing and advertising and you, the consumer, are the targets.
Noth...
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post #95 of 127 Old 09-03-2006, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cpu8088 View Post

refer previous thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583121

WoW! CPU. How did I miss that thread? Lots of great info in there. Thanks for the link.

Well I know for a fact that I am getting the Focal 1k set up, if I can decide on the sub, it would be a wrap.

Each of the following options are from different dealers with the exception of the SVS options which I will go with the dealer that is given me the best deal on the speakers and receiver. The sub will determine which dealer I will buy from although I am really leaning towards the revel package since our dealer their has been more then great with us. If the subs are all close performers I would rather pick option 1. But if a sub from another package just blows all of the others away, then I am all for that option.

Anyone have any opinions on the options below? Which options would you cross off the list right away? You guys have been so helpful. This is the last step and I will have my new HT!!!

Option 1: $15,220

Focal 1027 Be
Focal CC1000 Be
Profile SR 908
Arcam AVR350
Revel B15a

Option 2: $14,875

Focal 1027 Be
Focal CC1000 Be
Profile SR 908
Arcam AVR350
JLS EMB-1500

Option 3: $15,853

Focal 1027 Be
Focal CC1000 Be
Profile SR 908
Arcam AVR350
Paradigm SEISMIC 12

Option 4: $15,199

Focal 1027 BE
Focal CC1000 Be
Profile SR 908
Arcam AVR350
SVS - PB12-Ultra/2

Option 5: $15,000

Focal 1027 BE
Focal CC1000 Be
Profile SR 908
Arcam AVR350
SVS - PB12-Plus/2
Velodyne SMS-1 EQ

Thanks again.
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post #96 of 127 Old 09-03-2006, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tweeterex View Post

Did you contrast them in the same room, on the same gear after that?

We been back and forth to "The New Audible Difference" in Palo Alto, CA. Each time we go we try to hear as many speakers as time would permit. To be honest I tried hard to find flaws and to generally not like the Focals since I had my heart set on B&W for years but my attempts were futile.

Each trip we would listen to the Focals and then we would go back to the other room and hear the Revel since it got so many great reviews. I did not get to hear the Revel on Class'e but I was able to have the dealer hook up the Arcam AVR350 to both the Revel and the Focals. IMO the Focals truly sound like they are in another league. The only speakers that I heard on almost the same equipment was the B&W 803D at Century Stereo. I just did not like the Theil so I had know desire to listen to them again.

This is all just my opinion, You might love the sound that the Revels put out. They do sound great, they just did not blow me away like when I heard the 1027 Be and the a lesser extent the 803D.
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post #97 of 127 Old 09-04-2006, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by CriPPleR_HD View Post

Runnerlk,

I was set on the 803S or 803D before I heard 1027 be. We actually auditioned the full line of Thiel and Revel in the same store. After listening to them and a couple of others we decided that we would stick with the B&W. Revel was much better then Thiel IMO but I prefer the sound of the 803D and even the 803S to the sound of the Revel.

As we were leaving the store our sales guy asked if we had time to listen to one more set of speakers. We said yes and he proceeded to lead us to another show room where he had the Focal 1027 Be hooked up to two Class's 400w mono blocks. We handed him our demo CD's and the rest is history.

The 1027 Be was the ONLY speakers that we heard that day that blew us away. We were so set on B&W that it had to take one hell of a speaker to change our minds and the 1027 Be did just that.

-Sam


Sam,

Thanks for the input, I think I will listen to the 1027 again, did you get the CC?

Lou
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post #98 of 127 Old 09-04-2006, 09:09 AM
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what is so special about the avr350?

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post #99 of 127 Old 09-04-2006, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cpu8088 View Post

what is so special about the avr350?

The reason I can get the 1027 Be is because I dipped into the rear's and electronics's budget. The most I can spend on electronics now is $3,000 and it is hard to find good separates at that price.

The AVR350 did a good job with the 1027 be so I can use it for now until I can save enough cash for a really good amp then use the AVR350 as a processor.

I am not too worried about HDMI 1.3 because my HD-XA1 does just fine with the analog outs.

Hope this makes sense.

-Sam
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post #100 of 127 Old 09-04-2006, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by runnerlk View Post

Sam,

Thanks for the input, I think I will listen to the 1027 again, did you get the CC?

Lou

Lou,

Yes, but I am buying it blindly since no one had it on the show floor. I have until this weekend to buy so I am mostly just researching sub ATM.
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post #101 of 127 Old 09-04-2006, 11:32 AM
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Sam, I'm sure it would have taken it out of your price range, but when you say you listened to NHT, did you listen to Xd? Or just the more affordable Class/Evo lines? Just curious which one(s) you heard?

John
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post #102 of 127 Old 09-04-2006, 12:11 PM
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Did you contrast them in the same room, on the same gear after that?

SO, the answer was "no"?

I think it would be generally more useful if everyone new to these forums is reminded that they are constantly being marketed to and pitched by people who post their affiliations and many others who do not. This is all part of marketing and advertising and you, the consumer, are the targets.
Noth...
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post #103 of 127 Old 09-04-2006, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tweeterex View Post

SO, the answer was "no"?

No, My wife and I did not feel we had to. We know what we were looking for in a speaker and we found it in the 1027 be.
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post #104 of 127 Old 09-04-2006, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Sam, I'm sure it would have taken it out of your price range, but when you say you listened to NHT, did you listen to Xd? Or just the more affordable Class/Evo lines? Just curious which one(s) you heard?

Hey, Alimentall.

When we went to check out NHT they only had the "Four" etc. The sales guy said he would give me a call when they get the XD's on the floor. Well, I decided to call him after reading your post and it turns out that he has them.

The Anderson's here in Santa Claira does not have them so we have to drive up to Dublin to check them out. (30 to 40 mins) I will report back later tonight.

To be honest, at this point I am pretty sold on the Focals but every review I read said that I owe it to myself to check out the XD's so off I go.

-Sam
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post #105 of 127 Old 09-04-2006, 06:13 PM
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Crippler,

Just a thought, consider better electronics and punt on the center speaker.

The 1027Be images so well that a center is a distraction. I have never been able to get a center speaker to sound open.
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post #106 of 127 Old 09-05-2006, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Sam, I'm sure it would have taken it out of your price range, but when you say you listened to NHT, did you listen to Xd? Or just the more affordable Class/Evo lines? Just curious which one(s) you heard?

I finally was able to hear the NHT XD but it was far from the ideal environment. Anderson's had the speakers set up in a trade show type of setting and the XD's just sounded really bad. On top of that there was someone auditioning the super 4's right behind us blasting War of the Worlds while we were trying to listen to the XD's. When things got a little quieter we tried again. The XD's tried but no way in hell was that environment going to do the XD's Justice.

Finally he moved the speakers to a HT room that was still under construction. The sound of the XD's were good and compared to my current B&W CDM system. IMO the NHT XD would be more like a side grade to me where as the Focal 1027 be are a true upgrade to my current system.

All and all, thanks for bringing the XD's to my attention. If I was looking for monitors these would be on my list of speakers to consider.
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post #107 of 127 Old 09-11-2006, 12:58 PM
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Crippler any update? Are you more set on the JM's. IMHO, you really can't go wrong with them.

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post #108 of 127 Old 09-11-2006, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CriPPleR_HD View Post

Lou,

Yes, but I am buying it blindly since no one had it on the show floor. I have until this weekend to buy so I am mostly just researching sub ATM.

Hi did you make your purchase? The only place that I can demo them in the Philly area is at Tweeter and they do not have the CC.
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post #109 of 127 Old 09-15-2006, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello MikeDuke and runnerlk,

Update:

I was able to score a killer deal at Audio Design in NC that allowed me to buy the Electra SR 1000 Be instead of the Profile SR 908. I now can give my opinion on how the full Electra Be package sounds minus the sub.

We close on our new North Carolina home on September 29th but our move date is not until October 16th. The speakers and HDTV are paid for and are schedule to be delivered on October 17th so I wont be able to give my first impression until then.

This is the speaker package I purchased:

Focal Electra 1027 Be
Focal Electra CC 1000 Be
Focal Electra SR 1000 Be

I STILL don't know which Sub to go with. I am torn between Revel B-15a and the Jame Loudspeaker EMB-1500. I am also considering the Servo 15 as well as two Seismic 12. However I did not rule out SVS Ultra/2 or the Focal sub just yet but the B-15a and the EMB-1500 are on the top of my list.

If anyone has any experience with the subs I mentioned I would LOVE your input.

Thanks,

Sam
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post #110 of 127 Old 09-15-2006, 09:11 PM
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First of all, a big congrats to you. That should be one fine sounding system. I am sure it will give you years of enjoyment. I am just glad to help out. The SW1000be is supposed to be a great sub. My contact at JM says he likes it better then the utopia. But the other ones you mentioned are fine as well. Make sure to keep us up to date when you get them. These speakers will grow with your system. It should sound real nice with the Arcam. If you want, in the future, separates will bring you to another level. As is though, your system will sound top notch. Like I said, these will give you tons of pleasure. I know they bring it for me.
Again Congrats.
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post #111 of 127 Old 09-15-2006, 10:03 PM
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ditto what mike said

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post #112 of 127 Old 09-16-2006, 05:16 AM
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I STILL don't know which Sub to go with. I am torn between Revel B-15a and the Jame Loudspeaker EMP-1500. I am also considering the Servo 15 as well as two Seismic 12. However I did not rule out SVS Ultra/2 or the Focal sub just yet but the B-15a and the EMP-1500 are on the top of my list.

All great canidates, but have you considered one or two of the DD series from Velo as well?

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post #113 of 127 Old 09-17-2006, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Schadenfreude View Post

All great canidates, but have you considered one or two of the DD series from Velo as well?

One of the first sub on my list was the DD-15 but when I saw that the price was $4,000 I took it off the list. I did a little research on the DD-15 last night and it seems to have come down in price. ($2,999) There were allot of great reviews as well.

I only have $2,500 left in my budget that will go to a new sub so if I can find a DD-15 for around that price I will purchase it.

Thanks MikeDuke and CPU8088 for the Congrats and the help. When I fist heard the Electra 1027 be I could not believe how good they sound. I never heard of Focal so I did not think that these speaker could be better then some of the others I had demoed but you guys along with my wife gave me the confidence to believe that my ears was telling the truth and these speakers are really that good. I will be sure to update you guys on how these bad boys perform in my home.

Arcam AVR350 should hold me off till I save up some cash the get some really good separates which should be in the January / March time frame.

-Sam
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post #114 of 127 Old 09-18-2006, 12:36 PM
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Sam, like I said before, congrats and it is not a problem. You are not the only one who really never gave Focal a second or first thought. But with me, and cpu, and now you, we can take over the world
Just wait until you get good separates. It will take you beyond the next level. Any of those subs should be fine.

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post #115 of 127 Old 09-18-2006, 06:04 PM
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Hi,

Has anyone have a chance to really listen closely to the CC1000be yet? I would like to hear your feed back since I plan to get it soon to pair up with the front 927be !

Btw, Sam, congrats ! 1027be is awesome . Did you listen to the center CC1000BE before you order it ?
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post #116 of 127 Old 09-29-2006, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I been PM'ing MikeDuke and Que and they been VERY helpfull. Since this is my last purchase for awhile and everyone in the thread been so great, I thought I'd post this here.

Today I will be purchasing the final components for my HT. I have a couple of quick questions that I would like to ask before I head out to the dealers.

Amp/Receiver:

Should I get the Arcam AVR350 and buy a separate amp for it later down the road? Or should I keep my Denon 3802 and add a 2 or 3ch amp (Bryston) to it right now? Which one will give me the better over all sound quality in Music and Movies?

Sub:

My dealer does not carry Velodyne so I can't get a package deal on it with my speakers. However he will give me a killer deal on a Electra SW1000. (less then 3k)

I know this sub will be killer for music but how do you think it will compare to the Velodyne DD-15 in movies? The Velodyne has a 15" woofer powered by 1,250-watt BASH amp + the SMS EQ, 14hz. The Electra SW1000 has a 13" woofer backed by a 600Wrms BASH amp / 18hz.

Could the Focal compare to the Velodyne?

-Sam
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post #117 of 127 Old 09-29-2006, 01:02 PM
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I'd buy the amp, then get a nice preamp later. NAD has a *hellishly* cool preamp coming out, for instance in a few months. No big changes in amps coming soon (except for more digital amps, I guess). I can't really say on the subs, but in general, I find european subs to be over priced and under performing. For about $2K or a bit over, a top end NHT sub has four 12" acoustic suspension aluminum woofers, two outboard amps and an outboard crossover. I still think Americans do bass better

John
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post #118 of 127 Old 10-02-2006, 07:06 PM
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Well I'm a little disappointed: The Tweeter in Burlington, MA has the 1027 be's so I stopped there to listen on my way to points north.

The didn't really shine. They sounded ok, but didn't really float a nice image, sounding rather closed in. They were run off of some Krell surround sound product.

My guess is that they're not at all broken in. The store has only been open 8 weeks since it was made-over in the 'Las Vegas' flagship store image.

In the same room were the Martin Logan Summits. Those sounded pretty awesome, I must say.

I'll probably go back and listen again in a few months. My current speakers are the B&W n802's (aluminum tweet, not diamond). They're great speakers, but after 4 years or so I just start itching for a change.
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post #119 of 127 Old 10-03-2006, 04:30 AM
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Mobster, either they were not set up right or they were not broken in. I would wait and go back later for another listen. It could have been the Krell gear. I had a Krell showcase and I thought it sounded good. That is until I got my Halo C2. Then everything opened up. Nice soundstage and just all around better sound. I have Bryston amops. I bought mine without even hearing them. Bad I know. But I already had the 927be's and I was very familiar with their sound. Give them another shot. Maybe if you can at another store.

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post #120 of 127 Old 10-03-2006, 05:05 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Earth
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I only have $2,500 left in my budget that will go to a new sub so if I can find a DD-15 for around that price I will purchase it.

If not , the 12 is fantastic as well.

Quote:
Maybe someday in the future we will be able to quantify perceived Sound Quality .
(But not today....)

Earl Geddes Ph.D.
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