Thinking of Upgrading to B&W 800Ds - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Jonomega,

>It would help, however, having no reflections is always better than having dampened reflections which is better than just reflections as you know. :D<

Well but if you dampen them effectively it means you have absorbed the waves so what's the difference?

>The purpose of moving the 802Ds/Center out into the room is so that you prevent close reflections from occuring. For the center, you will have the challange of the surface that the center is sitting on, and the surfaces that are to the sides of it. If, for example, you were to place the center so that it was half on the cabinet and half in midair (maybe 6" in front of the boundaries) the close reflections would be much less. <

Yeah I have an excel file with a layout of my HT room and I've been playing around with various alternative configurations as a result of this thread. I think I can relatively easily move the L/R front speakers out more in front of the cabinets at the very least. Not sure what to do about the center yet. Actully if I put the plasma on the wall, lost the center cabinent and moved the towers out of the way it would make for an interesting room set up and--based on what you guys say-better SQ. It sure would give me more room to place my speakers. I'm still thinking on it.

>Since you have the good dealer buy-back trade up deal, Its probably in your best interest to take full advantage of it and upgrade your stuff before the time limit expires. In your current setup, the new speakers will sound better than your "old" ones, but not up to its fullest potential. Even your "old" speakers are not performing to their "full potential" although you have gotten pretty close with all of the room absorption.<

Well it's sure going to be exciting to put the 802Ds in there, play around with them and see what they sound like. Strange as it may sound, I was traveling on business in Thailand a few months ago and I saw the 802Ds on display in a store in Bangkok. I was stunned at how beautiful they look; I hadn't realized it just from the pictures on the BW website. That is not the main reason to buy them but they really are stunning looking and I expect that they will be pretty stunning sounding too once I get everything optimized.

>In a year if you have a different setup where the speakers are away from any type of solid "thing" whether it be a cabinet or a wall, or furniture, you should hear improvements. <

Yeah at some point I will buy a place and then I will be able to do much more with the HT room.

>In my opinion, the bottom line is this:
Upgrading your speakers will give you the next step in improvements.
Rearranging your furniture to prevent early reflections will yeild another step in improvements.<

Yeah if I am willing to get into a relatively big project I still think I can do a lot with the room I have now. I just have to be willing to play around with moving stuff around and be open to the possibility that the purchase of the cabinet and towers was not the best thing to do from a SQ point of view. I say consider it because I'm still not entirely convinced that my set up is so terrible. Like I say when I have the time/energy I will do some A/B tests moving furniture around and then fine tuning the speaker placement to see how much improvement I can notice.

thanks.
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post #92 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 01:18 PM
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BTW, does anyone know what a large chimney breast is? Sounds interesting. ;)
Some people hunt deer and hang their heads on the mantle piece as trophies... I'll leave the rest up to your imagination. :p

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post #93 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Some people hunt deer and hang their heads on the mantle piece as trophies... I'll leave the rest up to your imagination. :p
Ohh. Nasty :D
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post #94 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 01:33 PM
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Here is a link to one of the concept drawings for my setup (via Rives Audio). This should give you a sense of how far you might have to pull speakers out from the back wall, depending on your room dimensions of course! When I asked Rives about putting anything (even my small, less than two foot tall salamander with no enclosures) to hold equipment in the front of the room, he adamantly stated to the effect that nothing should ever be placed behind the speakers. I didn't ask him for details on why, but I would imagaine an acoustic engineer would be correct.

Concept drawing with electrical installation ideas (added by myself).

I'll see if I can find anything specific in some of the books I've read about acoustics. I know from what I remember that certain sized shapes will break up sound waves for which the size of the object is 1/4 of the sound wave. This would seem to fit with the idea that putting something at the front of the room will break up all different sized waves in the spectrum depending on how varied its shape is and how many smaller shapes are within that bigger shape, i.e. - your cabinet has three parts, two of which will break up different sized waves - also those cabinets have different sized shapes within their larger shape, which will break up smaller waves as well.

The other issue is that waves that don't break and whose total wavelength falls below that of the size of the object will be reflected earlier as they bounce off your cabinets. So you will have waves which are arriving out of synch with each other as well which will muddy and expand the audio image.

Those are just some initial thoughts...

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post #95 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 01:36 PM
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Ohh. Nasty :D
Hahahahah, admit it! You love it! :D

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post #96 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber
Here is a link to one of the concept drawings for my setup (via Rives Audio). This should give you a sense of how far you might have to pull speakers out from the back wall, depending on your room dimensions of course! When I asked Rives about putting anything (even my small, less than two foot tall salamander with no enclosures) to hold equipment in the front of the room, he adamantly stated to the effect that nothing should ever be placed behind the speakers. I didn't ask him for details on why, but I would imagaine an acoustic engineer would be correct.

Concept drawing with electrical installation ideas (added by myself).

I'll see if I can find anything specific in some of the books I've read about acoustics. I know from what I remember that certain sized shapes will break up sound waves for which the size of the object is 1/4 of the sound wave. This would seem to fit with the idea that putting something at the front of the room will break up all different sized waves in the spectrum depending on how varied its shape is and how many smaller shapes are within that bigger shape, i.e. - your cabinet has three parts, two of which will break up different sized waves - also those cabinets have different sized shapes within their larger shape, which will break up smaller waves as well.

The other issue is that waves that don't break and whose total wavelength falls below that of the size of the object will be reflected earlier as they bounce off your cabinets. So you will have waves which are arriving out of synch with each other as well which will muddy and expand the audio image.

Those are just some initial thoughts...
Wow. Looks like you have a nice project in the works! I suppose if you want they will supply the acoustic panels. Do they do the installation too if you want?

My problem is that I can't visualize the patterns of sound waves coming from the speakers and bouncing off all the walls. Seems like it must be a pretty complication sort of equation but I bet you can simplify a bit to the "key" waves from the point of view of sound image clarity. Then again, probably professional sound engineers do computer modeling of complex systems within a room. Of course one can be more rigorous with a dedicated HT room as, in theory, you have many more degrees of freedom and less constraints to optimize SQ.

Then again, it seems that there are basic principles that hold for every room and it isn't rocket science. At least the advice one picks up from the standard providers of acoustic panels is all pretty much the same. You have to trap as many of the corners as you can with well-designed broadband bass traps and catch the first reflections off the ceiling, floor, side and back walls. And you have to optimize speaker placement subject to the constraints of your room (not so much of a prob for dedicated room I suppose).
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post #97 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Hahahahah, admit it! You love it! :D
Sure, I meant nasty in a good way. ;)
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post #98 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 07:55 PM
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Wow. Looks like you have a nice project in the works! I suppose if you want they will supply the acoustic panels. Do they do the installation too if you want?
Nope, they don't do the panels or the installation. I actually built the side panels myself, though they do recommend a few places to order them, it is much much cheaper to build them yourself. They give you some basic instructions on how to build them, but they weren't very helpful, I had to ask them to clarify things on the phone a few times and was told that it doesn't matter exactly how you build them. I ended up using 1" x 2" wood and cut them into 25.5" and 47.5" pieces and used "L" joints (if that is the correct name for these braces) with two screw holes on each side to screw them into rectangular frames, then I inserted 703 Owens Corning Fiberglass into the frames. When I finalize what colors I will use in the room, I will then order acoustically transparent fabric and staple it around the frame. Building ten of these frames and buying the 703 fiberglass (and having two pieces of the 703 left over) cost me the price of buying only two of these built by another company (not including fabric since I haven't purchased that yet.)

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Originally Posted by Jack D
My problem is that I can't visualize the patterns of sound waves coming from the speakers and bouncing off all the walls. Seems like it must be a pretty complication sort of equation but I bet you can simplify a bit to the "key" waves from the point of view of sound image clarity. Then again, probably professional sound engineers do computer modeling of complex systems within a room. Of course one can be more rigorous with a dedicated HT room as, in theory, you have many more degrees of freedom and less constraints to optimize SQ.
I know that Rives does use computer modeling. As far as HT goes, the more sound proof the better, which is why a great HT setup probably won't make a good two channel setup, since in two channel you want some liveliness to the room (or so I keep hearing). This is why I had my room optimised for two channel and 5.1 is just an afterthought. In a HT I believe you can sound proof everything and it would be a benefit to the setup.

BTW, the panels that go on the ceiling will be the RPG skylines I mentioned earlier in the thread (I think), it doesn't mention that on the conceptual layout.

Sound behaves like light once you get above a certain frequency.

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Originally Posted by Jack D
Then again, it seems that there are basic principles that hold for every room and it isn't rocket science. At least the advice one picks up from the standard providers of acoustic panels is all pretty much the same. You have to trap as many of the corners as you can with well-designed broadband bass traps and catch the first reflections off the ceiling, floor, side and back walls. And you have to optimize speaker placement subject to the constraints of your room (not so much of a prob for dedicated room I suppose).
I would try the WASP method (if you aren't hiring anyone to find the best position with a reputable software program), like I said earlier, that one is practically the same as the position Rives Audio found. I remember using that method and being like... "Nah, this is a crazy position, I would have to move my desk and everything else in the room to accommodate it. My couch would have to go to the other side of the room (no longer near-field listening). This can't be the best position!" The only thing I can say though, is that it is 100% better than the best near-field setup I found using all the methods I listed earlier. The whole room is involved in the sound experience now, and my equipment sounds much more authentic in comparison to any of the near-field setups. I was thinking, "how could all these other methods recommend near-field and then this method finds that the best position is out further into the room," so I kept looking for the best position in the near-field range when I should have trusted my ears... Which is one of the things you use in the WASP method along with clapping.

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post #99 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 08:21 PM
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My problem is that I can't visualize the patterns of sound waves coming from the speakers and bouncing off all the walls.
If you want to visualize this, try CARA, a speaker/room modelling program. You have to enter the data rather scrupulously but the results and display are quite amazing.

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post #100 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 08:42 PM
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If you want to visualize this, try CARA, a speaker/room modelling program. You have to enter the data rather scrupulously but the results and display are quite amazing.

Kal
I tried using that, but it was fairly time consuming. It also doesn't give much help with any type of room treatment besides absorbers (though future incarnations are supposed to start including other types of treatment). It definitely would be great for speaker placement.

If you have the time CARA does seem to be fairly detailed, but if you have the money, I'd wait until you move and have a definite space you will always use and pay for a professional consultation. Just make sure whoever you use for the consultation has real credentials and isn't just the store owner using only personal experience. There is nothing wrong with personal experience based on years of working in the field, but I would feel safer knowing the person doing the work has a degree in the field and/or has had extensive certrified training, though that is just me personally...

All things considered CARA was only around 60 or 80 dollars, which isn't that much to spend even if you do get consulations later, so it isn't a huge money sink. Do be prepared to spend a good deal of time figuring out how to use the program and more time entering information and figuring out what information to enter for certain items in your space.

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post #101 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 08:53 PM
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There is NO amount of movie thrill on ANY hollywood movie today that require a $20000 pair of speakers. Even the 802D that I have now are overkill for movies probably.

In the end I would only buy 800D OR 802D if you are really into music more than movies.

Then I would match the center if possible. I have the old HTM-1 with my new 802D's though and movies sound fantastic and quite matched overall. I can't tell that separate speakers are running across the front ... it sounds like a perfect soundstage.

Final recommendation:
But 802D's and the matching center and don't have any regrets.... the 800D would have to be a LOT better to make it worth spending that kind of money... and they arent that much better. I would save the money for a future upgrade when the "next best thing" comes out.

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post #102 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber
I tried using that, but it was fairly time consuming. It also doesn't give much help with any type of room treatment besides absorbers (though future incarnations are supposed to start including other types of treatment). It definitely would be great for speaker placement.
It is as useful for choosing a room shape with furniture arrangements as it is for speaker placement. It is a bit less useful for prescribing treatment than it is for identifying problems. That said, it doesn't replace a measurement system but, then again, you have to have a room/system in order to do measurements.

Quote:
If you have the time CARA does seem to be fairly detailed, but if you have the money, I'd wait until you move and have a definite space you will always use and pay for a professional consultation. Just make sure whoever you use for the consultation has real credentials and isn't just the store owner using only personal experience. There is nothing wrong with personal experience based on years of working in the field, but I would feel safer knowing the person doing the work has a degree in the field and/or has had extensive certrified training, though that is just me personally...

All things considered CARA was only around 60 or 80 dollars, which isn't that much to spend even if you do get consulations later, so it isn't a huge money sink. Do be prepared to spend a good deal of time figuring out how to use the program and more time entering information and figuring out what information to enter for certain items in your space.
Agreed. CARA is informative and entertaining but no off-the-shelf product can replace training, knowledge, skill and experience.

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post #103 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson
If you want to visualize this, try CARA, a speaker/room modelling program. You have to enter the data rather scrupulously but the results and display are quite amazing.

Kal
You know, I think I already have CARA. Isn't that the program in which you have to do a sort of CAD design of your room, specifying room materials and layout. Then you designate areas in which you want to place your speakers. The program then does a huge amount of iterations modelling reflections or something at each speaker placement within the zones you specified until it finds the optimal speaker placement. Correct?

I had it on my old computer which was a bit slow, and used it for a room I had in another house.; it was a really slow process. I haven't reloaded it onto my latest computer which has a dual intel chip and should handle the calculations much better. I guess I should try to play around with it for this room. I've got to find the disc however in all the boxes from my move that I have not unpacked yet! :D
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post #104 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blazar
There is NO amount of movie thrill on ANY hollywood movie today that require a $20000 pair of speakers. Even the 802D that I have now are overkill for movies probably.

In the end I would only buy 800D OR 802D if you are really into music more than movies.

Then I would match the center if possible. I have the old HTM-1 with my new 802D's though and movies sound fantastic and quite matched overall. I can't tell that separate speakers are running across the front ... it sounds like a perfect soundstage.

Final recommendation:
But 802D's and the matching center and don't have any regrets.... the 800D would have to be a LOT better to make it worth spending that kind of money... and they arent that much better. I would save the money for a future upgrade when the "next best thing" comes out.
I agree that it would not be worth it to fork out for the 802Ds just for movies but if one uses them for movies and music then it makes sense. The only problem is that probably it is optimal to have a separate system/room for music and movies so you can maximize for each sort of listening situation. Still I'm not worried about the second best solution of using those speakers for dual purpose listening.
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post #105 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar
There is NO amount of movie thrill on ANY hollywood movie today that require a $20000 pair of speakers. Even the 802D that I have now are overkill for movies probably.

In the end I would only buy 800D OR 802D if you are really into music more than movies.

Then I would match the center if possible. I have the old HTM-1 with my new 802D's though and movies sound fantastic and quite matched overall. I can't tell that separate speakers are running across the front ... it sounds like a perfect soundstage.

Final recommendation:
But 802D's and the matching center and don't have any regrets.... the 800D would have to be a LOT better to make it worth spending that kind of money... and they arent that much better. I would save the money for a future upgrade when the "next best thing" comes out.
I agree. I think the 802Ds matched with the Revel Ultima Sub 30s has been the best move I have made in my system so far, and I had considered upgrading the 802Ds to 800Ds and had my dealers permission before I decided it wasn't a noticeable enough difference in sound. The Sub 30s go a bit lower than the 800Ds. The midrange and tweeters between the 802D and the 800D are the same, so the differences you are paying for are the woofers and their drivers. You are better off with the 802D and something that goes lower than the 10" woofers on the 800D, like the separate Sub 30s, which also give you the option of moving the lower frequency producing device/devices into positions that are better for low frequency propagation.

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post #106 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 09:15 PM
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The other nice thing about those Sub 30s mixed with the 802Ds... The three parametric EQs and the LFO software that came with them allowed me to equalize out the low freqency bump below 80Hz in the 802Ds. Smooth indeed. :cool:

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post #107 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree. I think the 802Ds matched with the Revel Ultima Sub 30s has been the best move I have made in my system so far, and I had considered upgrading the 802Ds to 800Ds and had my dealers permission before I decided it wasn't a noticeable enough difference in sound. The Sub 30s go a bit lower than the 800Ds. The midrange and tweeters between the 802D and the 800D are the same, so the differences you are paying for are the woofers and their drivers. You are better off with the 802D and something that goes lower than the 10" woofers on the 800D, like the separate Sub 30s, which also give you the option of moving the lower frequency producing device/devices into positions that are better for low frequency propagation.
Do you use your sub for stereo music listening? I've got an SVS PB12 ultra/2 and my pre-pro allows for 2.1 listening. I use it now with my 703s and I really like that combination. I leave the XO at default 80hz. I have meant to play around with the XO but haven't got around to it yet.
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post #108 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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The other nice thing about those Sub 30s mixed with the 802Ds... The three parametric EQs and the LFO software that came with them allowed me to equalize out the low freqency bump below 80Hz in the 802Ds. Smooth indeed. :cool:
My SVS has a simple EQ that I was thinking about using but I decided that there was still enough general problems with the frequency response of my room that I should handle first before tweaking to compensate for stubborn individual nulls or peaks. Once I get my set up more stabilized I might consider fiddling like that.
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post #109 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 09:35 PM
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Do you use your sub for stereo music listening? I've got an SVS PB12 ultra/2 and my pre-pro allows for 2.1 listening. I use it now with my 703s and I really like that combination. I leave the XO at default 80hz. I have meant to play around with the XO but haven't got around to it yet.
Yes, I do use it for stereo listening. The Sub 30s have built in crossovers, so I don't use a preprocessor to set a crossover point. My preamp outputs the signal via balanced cables to the subwoofers which then output the signal (via high pass filter) over balanced cables to my amplifier which then sends the remainders of the signal (the unfiltered portion) to the 802Ds. The Sub 30s give you so many options for setting them up in your system. I decided to use the subs' crossovers instead of the crossover in my preprocessor (Bryston SP1.7), since I don't use the SP1.7 in my stereo setup (I only use it when I am listening to surround material - in which case it goes to the Ayre K-1xe Preamp and then through the subs anwyay).

For setting up the crossover position I have ETF at home, so I placed my subs in the recommended positions (the ones recommended by my acoustical consultant) and took some Frequency response measurments and decay models. It turned out that 80Hz worked great as a crossover point, though I could have gone a little lower before the peak/bump in the 802D ended, I wanted to use the full range of the subs (I'm not sure if this is the best crossover position in consideration of other factors I am not aware of, perhaps others here could enlighten me on whether there is a better spot to crossover with the 802Ds). Afterwords I did the whole installation process given on the Revel B15a/Sub30 LFO disc and set up the equalizer according to the suggestions listed on the computer screen after I plotted the frequency response into their LFO program (again using their sound disc and my SPL to plot the graph). After everything was set up I did another frequency response with ETF, it was relatively flat all the way to some point way past the crossover now. Music was revealing more low level content than ever before. Areas that used to be muddy and that used to cover up a lot of the dynamic parts of albums were now much more clear.

I would check out the Sub 30s or the B15a if you are looking to replace your sub at all, since both use the same parametric EQ. The Sub 30 is about to be replaced, so very soon you will likely find incredible prices for them used on Audiogon.

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post #110 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack D
My SVS has a simple EQ that I was thinking about using but I decided that there was still enough general problems with the frequency response of my room that I should handle first before tweaking to compensate for stubborn individual nulls or peaks. Once I get my set up more stabilized I might consider fiddling like that.
One EQ is better than none, unless of course your room doesn't require any. You could also check out devices like the Rives Audio PARC, which I am now considering for my entire surround setup, or the TACT, which is another parametric EQ device.

If your sub has a program like the LFO program that comes with the Revel Sub 30 and B15a, then it really isn't too big of a hassle to run the program and set your subs up any time you change things around in your room. I've run it three times myself already while making slight changes to speaker and sub positions. Since the Revel program figures everything out for me in terms of the parametric EQ settings, it is simply a matter of setting some basic values with the sub, volume knob and SPL meter, then taking a frequency response manually and punching it into the computer. After that you simply set the EQs to the suggested values and reap the benefits.

I don't know how hard it is to set your current sub up to use the EQ or how hard it is to find the best values for your subs, but if it is as easy as it is to set up the Revels, you should set it up to use the EQ now, and then just redo it any time you move things in your system. It is well worth the effort in my experience.

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post #111 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber
Yes, I do use it for stereo listening. The Sub 30s have built in crossovers, so I don't use a preprocessor to set a crossover point. My preamp outputs the signal via balanced cables to the subwoofers which then output the signal (via high pass filter) over balanced cables to my amplifier which then sends the remainders of the signal (the unfiltered portion) to the 802Ds. The Sub 30s give you so many options for setting them up in your system. I decided to use the subs' crossovers instead of the crossover in my preprocessor (Bryston SP1.7), since I don't use the SP1.7 in my stereo setup (I only use it when I am listening to surround material - in which case it goes to the Ayre K-1xe Preamp and then through the subs anwyay).

For setting up the crossover position I have ETF at home, so I placed my subs in the recommended positions (the ones recommended by my acoustical consultant) and took some Frequency response measurments and decay models. It turned out that 80Hz worked great as a crossover point, though I could have gone a little lower before the peak/bump in the 802D ended, I wanted to use the full range of the subs (I'm not sure if this is the best crossover position in consideration of other factors I am not aware of, perhaps others here could enlighten me on whether there is a better spot to crossover with the 802Ds). Afterwords I did the whole installation process given on the Revel B15a/Sub30 LFO disc and set up the equalizer according to the suggestions listed on the computer screen after I plotted the frequency response into their LFO program (again using their sound disc and my SPL to plot the graph). After everything was set up I did another frequency response with ETF, it was relatively flat all the way to some point way past the crossover now. Music was revealing more low level content than ever before. Areas that used to be muddy and that used to cover up a lot of the dynamic parts of albums were now much more clear.

I would check out the Sub 30s or the B15a if you are looking to replace your sub at all, since both use the same parametric EQ. The Sub 30 is about to be replaced, so very soon you will likely find incredible prices for them used on Audiogon.
I've been using the upgraded version of ETF which is now called RplusD to look at the FR of my room. I still am not sure I am interpreting the data there correctly but Ethan at RealTraps has been a great help. I've got the FR reasonably flat (although I want it to be flatter--who doesn't?) in the 20-300Hz range but still there is a null and peak somewhere in there (can't remember where). I'm still playing around with all of it at this point. I don't think I can really add any more acoustic panels so, once I get the 802Ds I will play around with speaker placement and maybe rearrange those lovely equipment towers, etc.

I'm also having trouble understanding the FR at the higher frequencies. It gets a lot more choppy but I don't fully understand how to interpret the graph in that range.
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post #112 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW, back to the 802s: I'm waiting for my dealer to give me a fianl package price quote but I assume I should get a discount off MSRP just like I did for the 700s. Is that consistent with your experiences? I mean they don't normally treat the high end range differently in terms of being stingier with discounts, do they?
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post #113 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D
I'm also having trouble understanding the FR at the higher frequencies. It gets a lot more choppy but I don't fully understand how to interpret the graph in that range.
Comb Filtering is probably what you are seeing on the graph. Unfortunately there is not much that can be done about that. Fortunately, our brain automatically deals with it so that we don't actually perceive it. :)

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post #114 of 353 Old 08-27-2006, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D
BTW, back to the 802s: I'm waiting for my dealer to give me a fianl package price quote but I assume I should get a discount off MSRP just like I did for the 700s. Is that consistent with your experiences? I mean they don't normally treat the high end range differently in terms of being stingier with discounts, do they?
If anything they should be more generous the more money you are spending. If they aren't then you can gently remind them that there are plenty more dealers around... :p

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One EQ is better than none, unless of course your room doesn't require any. You could also check out devices like the Rives Audio PARC, which I am now considering for my entire surround setup, or the TACT, which is another parametric EQ device.
Or, if you are only interested in EQing the sub, a Velo SMS-1.

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post #116 of 353 Old 08-31-2006, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Well thanks to you guys I'm going to rearrange my entire listening room! I'm getting rid of the towers, moving the credenza out of the way to the side, mounting the plasma on the wall, putting the center speaker out in the open on the floor below the plasma! Oh boy! A big new project!!!

I'm going to try the 802Ds and the HTM1D.

Given that I am going to have a totally new layout, I'm going to have to buy new speaker wire. Currently I've got Beldon 10 gauge, which turned out to be a real hassle to work with and I don't want to use anything thicker than necessary. The fronts and center will have lengths of about 18 ft. One of the surrounds is going to be significantly longer than that--maybe something on the order of 32 ft.

What gauge do you guys suggest I need for this set up?

Thanks.
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post #117 of 353 Old 09-01-2006, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D
Well thanks to you guys I'm going to rearrange my entire listening room! I'm getting rid of the towers, moving the credenza out of the way to the side, mounting the plasma on the wall, putting the center speaker out in the open on the floor below the plasma! Oh boy! A big new project!!!

I'm going to try the 802Ds and the HTM1D.

Given that I am going to have a totally new layout, I'm going to have to buy new speaker wire. Currently I've got Beldon 10 gauge, which turned out to be a real hassle to work with and I don't want to use anything thicker than necessary. The fronts and center will have lengths of about 18 ft. One of the surrounds is going to be significantly longer than that--maybe something on the order of 32 ft.

What gauge do you guys suggest I need for this set up?

Thanks.
10ga is fine. I use Belkin 12ga without any issue. We expect pictures of your new setup an new speakers as soon as possible :D

Congrats!
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post #118 of 353 Old 09-01-2006, 06:36 AM
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probably it is optimal to have a separate system/room for music and movies so you can maximize for each sort of listening situation.
Maybe true, but I've always found that a system that does music very well will do HT very well also, PROVIDED YOU HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH POWER, and a way of re-adjusting Bass, and maybe both types of surrounds that you can switch between.

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post #119 of 353 Old 09-01-2006, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Yuk! My local dealer made a price offer and I'm really not happy about it. Mid-single digit discount. He claimed that allowing me to trade in the other BWs for the full price I paid was a sort of discount. Not sure what to do at this point.

Anyone know if BW has a universal policy of trade ups and if I have to go back to the original dealer?
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post #120 of 353 Old 09-01-2006, 08:27 PM
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it's the dealer's policy (myer-emco?) and it is likely that it will work out better for you than the hit you'd take on selling them used yourself and then shopping a discount on a protected line. That being said, I have offered the same deal to guys who bought my brand from others just to gain a customer who likes the brand and wants to move up...so try other local B&W dealers.

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