Complete In-Wall or In-Ceiling Q&A - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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I never thought of that but did it after an installer suggested it. raylock is offline Sponsored Links Advertisement Old 10-21-2007, 09:19 AM Advanced Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 523 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 Quote: Originally Posted by raylock You could cut out a quarter inch from each joist to make it fit. I never thought of that but did it after an installer suggested it. If the joists didn't run directly below my master bath I might give that a whirl. Problem is there's a 2,000 lb claw foot tub sitting on travertine stone tiles... any deflection would crack the floor. bradesp is offline Old 10-22-2007, 02:12 PM Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 46 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 Has anyone had any experience with the RBH signatures series in walls? The stand alone signatures series seems well review, and I would like to see how the inwall stack up to offerings from Triad or other higher end inwall manufacturers. hanpan is offline Old 10-23-2007, 05:46 AM AVS Forum Special Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,195 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 Hi all. Paul or anyone, can you please post where I can buy the InCeiling Gold/6 Omni in the Charleston, S.C. area? Thanks. Jack Jacksmyname is offline Old 10-23-2007, 06:33 AM AVS Forum Club Gold Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Southern Utah Posts: 5,928 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s) Quoted: 7 Post(s) Liked: 54 Quote: Originally Posted by Jacksmyname Hi all. Paul or anyone, can you please post where I can buy the InCeiling Gold/6 Omni in the Charleston, S.C. area? Thanks. Jack Call the local Triad rep, Sean Hobbs, at 919 782 5738, tell him I referred you, and ask for a dealer. I'm not sure who we have in your area. Our biggest dealer in the Carolinas is Audio Advice in Raleigh; one of the best custom dealers in the country, but maybe there's someone closer. All Triad speakers are built to order, so no one will have stock. Products build and ship in four days at this time. Paul Scarpelli aka TRIAD DUDE I can tell people who are judgmental just by looking at them... Paul Scarpelli is offline Old 10-23-2007, 05:45 PM AVS Forum Special Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,195 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 Thanks Paul. Jacksmyname is offline Old 10-23-2007, 08:47 PM Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 24 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 Considering Boston Acoustics in-ceiling speakers. Anyone have the VRI595 or VRI585's? Tony Meconiates is offline Old 01-03-2008, 10:47 PM Newbie Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 Hi all. Great discussions on in-walls. I went with the Dali Ikon Phantom and Vokal Phantom for my in-walls through recommendations and reviews. Paired with a Velodyne sub, I am a happy camper (and my wife is too, A+ on WAF)! I posted these pictures to the Dali speaker thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post12675267 Lessons learned: buy fully enclosed in-walls to ensure the speakers perform as intended (these have an aluminum die cast enclosure for rigidity), balance for the room response and watch the sub x-over level. cctmbb is offline Old 02-03-2008, 01:42 AM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 I am in a simular situation as many other folks here and need some advise for in-ceiling LCR speakers. I really like the look of the Triad, but how do they compare with the Polk RTS 100 THX Ultra speakers? The seem like they are simular in price. Thanks in advance Xylix is offline Old 02-08-2008, 01:26 AM Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 14 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 +1 Quote: Originally Posted by Xylix I am in a simular situation as many other folks here and need some advise for in-ceiling LCR speakers. I really like the look of the Triad, but how do they compare with the Polk RTS 100 THX Ultra speakers? The seem like they are simular in price. Thanks in advance jayrex is offline Old 02-08-2008, 02:23 AM Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 17 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 which companies besides Triad have in-walls\\in-ceilings that have actual enclosures (not just back boxes)? my parents are in the process of building a new home and i'd like to have 4 zones of audio put in for them. SQ is important but so is budget. to give you an idea of the type of sound i like lets say smooth like butter =) aka not bright. if you ever heard the old Hales Transcendence speakers...you'll know what i'm talking about. jalepeno80 is offline Old 02-08-2008, 05:20 AM AVS Forum Special Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,092 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 8 Post(s) Liked: 10 Quote: Originally Posted by jalepeno80 which companies besides Triad have in-walls\\in-ceilings that have actual enclosures (not just back boxes)? my parents are in the process of building a new home and i'd like to have 4 zones of audio put in for them. SQ is important but so is budget. to give you an idea of the type of sound i like lets say smooth like butter =) aka not bright. if you ever heard the old Hales Transcendence speakers...you'll know what i'm talking about. axiom aham23 is offline Old 02-09-2008, 08:09 AM Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 247 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 20 Post(s) Liked: 16 Already chosen Def Tec UIW RLS 2 for the front end of my set up, what would you suggest for the rear surr, UIW RSS 2 or UIW RCS 2? The wall is just behind my sofa. Tks Marco airliner is offline Old 02-09-2008, 08:20 AM Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 47 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 I posted this question in the main speaker forum, but didn't get a response, and didn't realize there was a thread devoted to this application. So I'm posting here instead. Could a moderator please delete the following thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post13034447 Thanks Here's my question: I was hoping to get some advice on speaker positioning in my new basement TV room. I've got a roughly 12'x12' space, with one wall housing a 50" TV and recessed center channel and JBL Northride N38ii front speakers. My question is where to put the remaining 3 speakers. I am completely renovating the basement, and will want everything to be recessed, so I think I have to have in-ceiling/wall speakers for the rear speakers. The ONLY places I can put these speakers are in the ceiling (have 8" stud space) or in the REAR wall of the room (have about 7 to 7-1/2" stud space there). As you can see from the picture below, the main couch is against the back wall, where most of *my* viewing will be from. Does it make sense to ceiling mount all 3 rear speakers? Or the 2 side speakers in the ceiling and the rear center in the wall behind the couch? Or all 3 in the wall behind the couch? Or do all of these options suck? Also, any advice on in-ceiling/wall speakers? Since I'm happy with my current JBL speakers, I was thinking of using them, but even they have a couple options (I used to have the N26ii). The SP6ii seems like a decent match, but I don't really have much experience with them. Thanks in advance! -James cwheel is offline Old 03-12-2008, 06:02 PM Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: DC Metro area Posts: 39 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 27 Post(s) Liked: 11 Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli If you want to do direct-radiating speakers for the rear channels, I would probably not use the InCeiling Bronze/8 LCR because it has a bit more limited dispersion than the others you mention. In your price range, I would do the InCeiling Gold/6 Omni, at$600 each, including custom paint matching. If you plan on upgrading the fronts at some point, you could do the InCeiling Gold/8 Omni SE, which is the same size, but uses very high-end Seas drivers. These are $950 each. Overkill is always good. Paul, I'm not knowledgeable enough on speakers, dispersion, etc. to determine my best path. I'm putting 5.1 in a 40' x 13' kitchen/great room where HT is in the 12' x 13' great room. I have 10' ceilings, and the surrounds must go either in-ceiling or in-wall opposing the TV. As our sofa sits flush against that opposing wall, in-wall surrounds will be inches from listeners heads and can't point at their ears, but in-ceiling surrounds are farther away and I've no real idea how this impacts the realism of surround. Could you help me with the Triad product line? I'm currently considering: 1) Front/Center: IC Gold/8 Omni SE Surround: IC Gold/6 Omni Sub: InRoom Silver 2) Front/Center: IC Bronze/8 LCR Surround: IW Bronze/4 Surround Sub: InRoom Silver or Bronze I guess the issue relates to fidelity of Omni's vs. LCRs, subwoofer matching given the flexibility to use InRooms, and how to match the best surrounds given my application. My budget is$7k for speakers/sub: could you briefly outline the pros/cons for #1 & #2?

Sorry for the long post; this is my first foray beyond 2-channel ( duly embarrassed) and trying to get it right the first time.

Many, many thanks.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:19 PM
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The Bronze LCRs will have about 2 dB more output than the Gold Omni SE, but the Omni SE series, as eveident from the higher price, uses better drivers. If you will not be "headbanging" I'd use three InCeiling Gold/8 Omni SEs, and a pair of InWall Silver/4 Surrounds in the ceiling for surround. (All five grills are the same size, too.) I'd recommend two more InCeiling Gold/8 Omni SEs for the back, but due to the proximity to the seating area, they would hotspot too much. Either an InWall Silver/15 PowerSub or InRoom Silver PowerSub with the RackAmp500 will give you solid sub-20Hz bass. That puts you at about $6,000. If you use two InRoom Silver PowerSubs with the 250 watt amp on board, that would put you at$6,800, and the bass would be cleaner and room modes will be smoothed out.

My recommendations of this particular setup favor the best possible fidelity for your application, and give up, as I said, about 2 dB of output. It's a good trade, and with the two subs, you'll still be able to pin people to the back wall.

I won't be on the forum for a few days...traveling. I'm not ignoring you!

Cheers.

Paul Scarpelli

I can tell people who are judgmental just by looking at them...
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:53 PM
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thanks very much, safe travels.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:55 AM
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NEWB here... Building a new house and have a family room that we will be putting a 5.1 setup in. Room is 19x20 w/ 11 foot ceilings. my issues are...

1. for front speakers there may not be enough room to put in-wall LCR speakers and was pondering the Sonance Ellipse speakers. the concern is the potential disconnect b/w the tv (a 60" pioneer plasma) and the audio. top of tv will be approx 6 feet or so from the location of the speakers in ceiling. is this setup a big no-no? I've been told to not put in-wall speakers on an external wall? any issues there?

2. the sonance ellipse series also has in ceiling boxes to place the speakers in. the master bedroom is above the family room. the ceiling/floor b/w the floors will be extra insulated. would these boxes for the speakers add significant deadening to the sound? thanks in advance for the professional advice!!!!
j
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:52 AM
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There is a great gathering of the minds on this thread! I would love to chime in with my situation in hopes of recommendations.

I have a 5.1 setup that I really enjoy.....Onkyo 605 receiver, Polk In-wall TC615i for the front 3, JBL in-wall for the rear, and a Velodyne sub.

My situation is very similar to what several of you have in that my sofa (unfortunately) is on my back wall due to this being my family room first. a BIG red flag that I see with my system is that my 52" XBR Sony LCD is mounted right above my mantle, and the only place where I could squeeze in my front Polk in-walls is right above the TV.......~0.5 foot from the ceiling (~9 feet from the floor). The center is positioned right above the center of the TV, and the FL, FR are right on the outside corners of the TV.... all aligned at the same height. I could not really have the front channels mounted under the TV because 1) my rear in-walls that came with my 10yr old house are mounted high (same height as my fronts) and that may throw the sound off more 2) there was no space at the bottom of the TV because of the mantle.

I am now in the Blu Ray world and think a 7.1 setup would be cool and potentially possible; however, may not be appropriate.

The other question I have is with all the proposed angles of a 5.1/7.1 set-up in the surround sound diagrams, how is that possible with in-wall speaker set-ups...ie...how can you turn the speakers 30 degrees without owning of those expensive Triad/Omni In-wall speaker.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:11 AM
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Hello.

Ugh. I'm currently dealing with an unhappy wife. I have a small cadenza that sits below our wall mounted 50" plasma. On this cadenza are my LCR speakers - B&W 602s with their matching center channel. She hates how they look. Then there's the giant Paradigm PS-1200 sub. Not good, either.

She also doesn't like on-wall speakers that are made to go with flat screens. You know, the tall skinny things. She's mentioned that she might be good with small satellites, e.g., B&W's M1. I think they sound a bit compressed.

This system is our main system for now, but will be eclipsed by a dedicated home theater downstairs. Lots of Sesame Street and Blues Clues is being watched on it, plus movies when we can. I have a dedicated audio-only system, so we're good there.

In walls? I'd love to, but due to bad planning on my parts, one of the stud spaces that would be used for an inwall speaker is a cold air return...for the room adjacent to this room. What would that mean? Sure, a speaker could be put in there, but it would radiate sound into it and out into the adjacent room - the master bedroom.

I've seen people that have put ceiling speakers for their LCRs. Sure, there's a compromise here, but if it sounds "decent", I'd be ok. We have 10' ceilings, which means the screen is WAY below the speakers. How annoying will this be?

Ok, have at it. I'd like to make my wife happy soon, as I'm tired of hearing about this.

Kris
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:14 PM
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I am trying to figure out how far I should place in-ceiling surround speakers from the wall. I have the angles from the prime viewing seat and all of that, but I just don't know how to figure out how from the walls to place them in the ceiling. I have read that 2' from the side wall for the L and R surrounds, and 2' from the back wall for the rear surrounds. I read elsewhere that you can do the mirror trick...where you mark the proposed speaker location on the ceiling with tape and sit in the prime viewing seat...then have a buddy move a mirror along the side/back wall. Where you see the tape is where the sound will be reflected off the wall. On surrounds, that spot on the wall should be about 2-3 feet above seated ear level (much like regular placement of in-wall and on-wall speakers). Anyway, does anyone else have ideas before I cut the drywall...and possibly position my new in ceiling speakers in less than ideal locations????? Again, I am only concerned about surround speakers...not the Left, Center or Right Main speakers. Thanks.
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:58 PM
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In addition to my last post. The back of my HT has a 3' section of slanted/sloped ceiling at the roofline. I have been trying to decide whether to use Rectangular In-Wall speakers for my rear surrounds, or if I should match my Left and Right surrounds, which are round In-ceiling speakers. In the budget realm of IW and IC speakers, I have heard that In-Wall speakers tend to sound better since the tweeter and woofer are separated...whereas In-Ceiling speakers have the tweeter in front of the woofer. Next, what is the impact visually. Will having rectangular speakers look odd in the slanted portion of the ceiling when the left and right surrounds are round speakers.

I can pick up a realtively cheap THX Select In-Wall speaker (for instance HiFi Works surround speaker), but I haven't found a budget friendly THX In-Ceiling speaker. For a rear surround...does anyone think that THX Select certification will matter that much???
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:22 PM
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We've gutted our new house and I'm looking to put 4 in-ceiling speakers on the main floor (great room and living room). Total area is about 700 sqft and I'm interested in good sound but not looking for reference quality playback. Mainly ambiance music but must be able to scale up and punch out some good sound when we're partying!

I think I'll drive these with something like the Emotica XPA-5.

My questions:
1. The joists are real 2 x 8 pine timber, 16" OC (built in 1949). My room and my daughters room will be directly above these speakers. Should I build a box within the joist to improve the audio quality and insulate the above room from transfer? If so, what should I do?

2. I'll read through this thread, but what speakers should I consider if I'm looking to spend no more than $400 cdn/pair. I've listened to a few already and enjoyed the Audio Quest 6" in-ceiling. NOTE: I'm not aganist spending less as I've seen the Klipsch product on eBay for about$150/pair.

Van G

Carl Spackler: "The amazing stuff about this is, that you can play 36 holes on it in the afternoon, take it home and just get stoned to the bejeezus-belt that night on this stuff."
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:07 PM
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Just ordered a pair of Aim 8 Fives (front) and a pair of Aim 8 Threes (rear) as well as an Aim LCR Five (center) for my 5.1 (gonna use my old active sub until i can find more money). This is gonna be hooked up to my many month old never used Denon AVR-988. Speakers cost $1298 plus$600 for the receiver, all new. Any thoughts? Did i do alright?

I'm planning to put the center right below the lcd in the center, with the FR and FL at the same height of the TV as far out as i can go (not a big wall). I'm going to wire for 7.1 but put the speakers in the rear position as I will see if i can get away with 5.1 for now. Sub is downfiring and I'll toss it in the corner. I'll of course let you know how it goes. TIA. Mahalo
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:09 PM
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Hey Paul (or anyone else):

I am trying to decide on in-ceiling speakers for our whole house audio system (approx 30 speakers) and am a bit torn between Triad and Sonance.

With Sonance, I am considering their Visual Performance Series and possibly the Architectural Series. Looking at both carbon fiber and beryllium drivers.

With Triad, I am considering all InCeiling speakers.

My question revolves around SPECS. In this case, the specs can't possibly be telling the full story. There is a huge difference in sensitivity and freq response between the two brands.

The Sonance speakers are less expensive, have a better freq response (go down to 30Hz or so compared to Triad's 60-70), and are more efficient in terms of sensitivity (less than 1/2 the power required since the Sonance efficiency is more than 3dB higher than Triad).

I know the Triad are fully enclosed and the Sonance are not.

But what I am missing here?

Thanks,

Blake

DWIN TS3 / Lexicon MC12 / ViewSonic VPW50 / HDTivo / Meda Bravo Music Server / home-built HTPC / DWIN TV3 Projector / Slingbox
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:19 PM

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Well, If it were me, I would get one of each and see how they sound. I think the Triad enclosure makes it the superior speaker. But that is just me. I have Triad silver in my small theater so I am probably biased. If you are going to use 30 of these guys you can always find a place for the one that comes out number two.
Best
Ray
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raylock

Well, If it were me, I would get one of each and see how they sound. I think the Triad enclosure makes it the superior speaker. But that is just me. I have Triad silver in my small theater so I am probably biased. If you are going to use 30 of these guys you can always find a place for the one that comes out number two.
Best
Ray

One of our marketing "problems" is we don't utilize the device of hyperbole. Almost all loudspeakers' low frequency response is pure fabrication, and nearly all inwall and inceiling speakers' bass extension specs are overly optimistic. (I'm trying to be diplomatic here.) I am not singling out any specific company here, but ANY round ceiling speaker claiming -6 dB @ 30 Hz is full of crap. (So much for diplomacy.)

Also suspect are sensitivity figures. And power handling. And treble response. Ours are as sensitive as we say, and they will handle as much power as we state. Here's an example: Years ago, our Silver PowerSub was tested by Home Theater magazine. We claimed a -3 dB of 20 Hz. Their measurements returned a -3 dB of 19 Hz. We do not fudge our figures. As far as everyone else, I think there are measured data, and marketing data, and they're usually not the same.

A crude but more valuable way of measuring speaker quality in an inwall or inceiling might be to compare the weights of the two products.

Paul Scarpelli

I can tell people who are judgmental just by looking at them...
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Old 08-09-2009, 10:23 PM
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Im adding a drop down plasma into this family room and I am being forced by my wife and her decorator to use inwall/inceiling speakers. The pics only show about half the room which opens back into the kitchen. The distance form the main viewing spot (green sofa) to tv is 14 feet. Width is about 20 ft. Overall size of room is about 20 x 30.

I was thinking of the Triad Bronze/8 LCR up front but not sure how to do the rears. I could probably squeeze some in-walls next to the columns. The columns are built around supporting posts so cant use them. Or I could do in-ceiling for the rears. Havent decided on 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 etc yet.

Any thoughts?

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Old 08-10-2009, 08:05 AM
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prs,

That's a tough room. The fireplace is the center attraction but mounting a plasma above it will be too high. You won't like having to look up at the TV, not to mention you won't have a place for a center channel.

Are you planning to put the TV on the opposite wall where the column is?
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlsu

prs,

That's a tough room. The fireplace is the center attraction but mounting a plasma above it will be too high. You won't like having to look up at the TV, not to mention you won't have a place for a center channel.

Are you planning to put the TV on the opposite wall where the column is?

I found a drop down that can be customized to drop 70" which is well below the fireplace mantle. Its not too bad a viewing angle. http://www.inca-tvlifts.com/

I wish I could put the TV on the opposite wall, but ceiling joists dont allow that...they run the opposite direction.

I was going to put the center channel in the ceiling in front of the plasma. It will be around 13 feet from the listening position, so not too far.

Im leaning towards in walls for the left and right surrounds next to the columns. Dont know if Id do a rear center in the ceiling or just leave it at 5.1. It is a really big room, but the tile floors make it an acoustically bright room. There will be more furniture on the wall to the left and right of the fireplace and another chair will be placed to the right of the sofa soon.
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