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post #61 of 3972 Old 09-20-2006, 10:15 PM
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Have Primus 140's installed for surround rears now, and re-calibrated the MCACC on the Pioneer 1015 tonight. Watched a little CSI-NY in 5.1 - the sound is amazing on this system. One thing interesting with the Pioneer is it set all speakers to large when I ran the MCACC again.
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post #62 of 3972 Old 09-21-2006, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have moved on to B&W's, but my respect for the Primus's is in no way diminished. My 602's were 3X the (current) price of the 250's and, while definitely an audible upgrade, are certainly nowhere remotely close to 3X better. If I had to go back to the Primus's, I would still enjoy listening to them.
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post #63 of 3972 Old 09-21-2006, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I have moved on to B&W's, but my respect for the Primus's is in no way diminished. My 602's were 3X the (current) price of the 250's and, while definitely an audible upgrade, are certainly nowhere remotely close to 3X better. If I had to go back to the Primus's, I would still enjoy listening to them.

Congrats on your new purchase. I am sure you must be liking those.
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post #64 of 3972 Old 09-21-2006, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I have moved on to B&W's, but my respect for the Primus's is in no way diminished. My 602's were 3X the (current) price of the 250's and, while definitely an audible upgrade, are certainly nowhere remotely close to 3X better. If I had to go back to the Primus's, I would still enjoy listening to them.

I have to say that the B&W 602S3 is an awesome speaker. I am sure the rest of the 600 Series is awesome as well. This brings up an interesting point on just how good the Primus speakers are. Congrats on your new purchase.

It isn't about the product(s) YOU use but Rather how YOU use the product(s) that makes ALL of the difference!!!
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post #65 of 3972 Old 09-21-2006, 08:24 AM
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Finally got my new sub in last night (Athena P300), so my system is now complete! (For now) For $100 it was quite the bargain, and seems to fit in nicely with the Primus. I was definitely missing the lower bass for the past week. Can't wait to watch a full movie with everything hooked up, only had a few minutes to toy with it last night.

EDIT: So is the consensus that all crossovers should be set around 80hz? I just read that my receiver (Sony DA1ES) sets the default crossover at 120hz (but can be adjusted by 10hz increments) when set at small. Also, since my sub is adjustable, should I set it at perhaps 100hz to cover everything that the receiver sends to it?

FWIW, I see that the specs show low ends of:
250: 49hz
150: 58hz
C25: 80hz

Wonder if I should try setting them to 60, 70, and 90hz respectively. If you couldn't tell, I don't have much experience with crossover settings. Can't wait to get home and experement!
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post #66 of 3972 Old 09-21-2006, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo View Post

EDIT: So is the consensus that all crossovers should be set around 80hz? I just read that my receiver (Sony DA1ES) sets the default crossover at 120hz (but can be adjusted by 10hz increments) when set at small. Also, since my sub is adjustable, should I set it at perhaps 100hz to cover everything that the receiver sends to it?

Wonder if I should try setting them to 60, 70, and 90hz respectively. If you couldn't tell, I don't have much experience with crossover settings. Can't wait to get home and experement!

1. All speakers set to small
2. Crossover frequency on receiver - 80hz
3. Set crossover frequency on your sub to max (150hz or whatever max it has.)

I think crossover at 80hz will be your best bet.
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post #67 of 3972 Old 09-21-2006, 08:44 PM
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How do these Primus 150's compare to the SVS bookshelf speakers the sbs-01?

Anyone actually listen and compare???

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post #68 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 08:38 AM
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axs, whats the reasoning for setting them all to 80hz? I would think that since my receiver is capable I would want to set each separately to get the most out of each speaker. I read somewhere that it's recommended to set the crossover to around 10hz higher than what the speaker can handle. Wouldn't 80 be too low for the center to handle, and too high to allow the 250s to do what they're capable of? Just asking, if there is a good reason to set them to 80 I will. Last night I set them up 60-70-90 and it sounds good, though I kind of doubt there would be much of a difference all at 80. It definitely sounds better than the 120hz default did.
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post #69 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo View Post

axs, whats the reasoning for setting them all to 80hz? I would think that since my receiver is capable I would want to set each separately to get the most out of each speaker. I read somewhere that it's recommended to set the crossover to around 10hz higher than what the speaker can handle. Wouldn't 80 be too low for the center to handle, and too high to allow the 250s to do what they're capable of? Just asking, if there is a good reason to set them to 80 I will. Last night I set them up 60-70-90 and it sounds good, though I kind of doubt there would be much of a difference all at 80. It definitely sounds better than the 120hz default did.

Subs can handle LFE much better than the main speakers you have listed here. They are designed to do that so it is best that you let them handle LFE even if your speakers can go 20-30 hz below that crossover frequency. In any case, depending on the speakers specs the mains will still get some LFE info below the crossover frequency. Generally most speakers and subs have a crossover slope of 12db/octave or 24dB/octave. Primus series has (250s, 150s, C25 and PS10/12) 24db/octave. For a better/smooth integration of mains and sub, they must overlap each other by a full octave.

I somehow missed the point that your receiver is capable of setting crossover frequency for each channel, so in this case you can actually set center to 100hz and all others to 80hz. All the speakers must be set to small, as the speakers set to large are not crossed over at all.
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post #70 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 09:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

How do these Primus 150's compare to the SVS bookshelf speakers the sbs-01?

Anyone actually listen and compare???

At the risk of angering people on this thread, I own some Primus 150's and have a good friend who has the SVS speakers. This is a subjective opinion but these speakers are so far apart in sound that it's really not fair to do a comparrison. Thumbs up for the SVS. My apologies to the many happy 150 owners who are posting here.
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post #71 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atdamico View Post

At the risk of angering people on this thread, I own some Primus 150's and have a good friend who has the SVS speakers. This is a subjective opinion but these speakers are so far apart in sound that it's really not fair to do a comparrison. Thumbs up for the SVS. My apologies to the many happy 150 owners who are posting here.

Not that surprising that they are better, really. The SVS speakers are 50% more than the 150's at full MSRP, and over 2 1/2 X the current CC price. On the other hand, I can't believe they would be that much better. After all, I have heard the 150's put in a pretty good showing even compared to some vastly more expensive speakers.
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post #72 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axs View Post

Subs can handle LFE much better than the main speakers you have listed here. They are designed to do that so it is best that you let them handle LFE even if your speakers can go 20-30 hz below that crossover frequency. In any case, depending on the speakers specs the mains will still get some LFE info below the crossover frequency. Generally most speakers and subs have a crossover slope of 12db/octave or 24dB/octave. Primus series has (250s, 150s, C25 and PS10/12) 24db/octave. For a better/smooth integration of mains and sub, they must overlap each other by a full octave.

I somehow missed the point that your receiver is capable of setting crossover frequency for each channel, so in this case you can actually set center to 100hz and all others to 80hz. All the speakers must be set to small, as the speakers set to large are not crossed over at all.

At what frequency does bass generally stop being directional? I understand that it doesn't matter where the lower bass is coming from, but I wonder if the 60-80 range would or not. (I realize this is probably just splitting hairs)

It's probably best for me to play a good movie scene as it is, then change it to 80-80-100 as you suggested and see how it sounds in comparison.

Also it might be worth noting that my sub isn't anything spectacular. (Athena P300) Sounds nice to me, but not one of the behemoths that many people here have. Thats what leads to suspect that maybe it should be reserved for lower frequencies and let the mains do what they can.

Either way, thanks for the helpful advice!
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post #73 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo View Post

At what frequency does bass generally stop being directional?

I once tried a sub in a stereo setup. The mains were towers, so I crossed over at a very low 50hz. There was still enough directionality that I had to center the sub between the speakers, otherwise I could tell which one it was closer to!
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post #74 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by atdamico View Post

At the risk of angering people on this thread, I own some Primus 150's and have a good friend who has the SVS speakers. This is a subjective opinion but these speakers are so far apart in sound that it's really not fair to do a comparrison. Thumbs up for the SVS. My apologies to the many happy 150 owners who are posting here.

I agree. There is no comparison. My buddy bought some SVS speakers and when he came over to listen to my Primus setup his jaw nearly hit the floor. When I told him I paid about half for my system than he did for his SVS package (with stands), he almost started crying because he said he paid too much and wasted his money. Plus I have a 7.1 channel setup and he has only 5.1.

But, since it was too late (past 30 days) to send his speakers back to SV, he can't get a refund. I mean no disrepect to any SVS owners out there - I am sure you are happy with your systems, but Primus is the better deal.
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post #75 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mltv View Post

I agree. There is no comparison. My buddy bought some SVS speakers and when he came over to listen to my Primus setup his jaw nearly hit the floor. When I told him I paid about half for my system than he did for his SVS package (with stands), he almost started crying because he said he paid too much and wasted his money. Plus I have a 7.1 channel setup and he has only 5.1.

But, since it was too late (past 30 days) to send his speakers back to SV, he can't get a refund. I mean no disrepect to any SVS owners out there - I am sure you are happy with your systems, but Primus is the better deal.

I own 150s and am quite happy with the SQ, but then I have not heard SVS speakers at all, so can't comment on its quality.

This however brings an interesting point that did any of you (mltv, atadamico and your friends) listen to these two side by side, connected to same equipments and listening to same materials or that was just based on an isolated listening (not that it matters to me ... just curious)
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post #76 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 12:43 PM
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What made his jaw drop exactly?

Clarity? Bass? Loudness? There are a lot of factors and I'd like some more input because I'm ready to make a move to bookshelf speakers and I really like what I READ about the SVS speakers.....only problem....you cannot listen to them anywhere very easily.

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post #77 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo View Post

At what frequency does bass generally stop being directional? I understand that it doesn't matter where the lower bass is coming from, but I wonder if the 60-80 range would or not. (I realize this is probably just splitting hairs)

It's probably best for me to play a good movie scene as it is, then change it to 80-80-100 as you suggested and see how it sounds in comparison.

Also it might be worth noting that my sub isn't anything spectacular. (Athena P300) Sounds nice to me, but not one of the behemoths that many people here have. Thats what leads to suspect that maybe it should be reserved for lower frequencies and let the mains do what they can.

Either way, thanks for the helpful advice!

Different people have different opinion, but I would say around 100hz (+/- few). I tried at 60-100hz and at least to me it did not sound like localize bass in my setup. Never tried beyond 100hz though, so can't tell about that.

Regarding your sub, I would still think that it will handle LFE better than 250s or 150s or C25.

Let us know, which setting works best for you.
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post #78 of 3972 Old 09-22-2006, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mltv View Post

I agree. There is no comparison. My buddy bought some SVS speakers and when he came over to listen to my Primus setup his jaw nearly hit the floor. When I told him I paid about half for my system than he did for his SVS package (with stands), he almost started crying because he said he paid too much and wasted his money. Plus I have a 7.1 channel setup and he has only 5.1.

But, since it was too late (past 30 days) to send his speakers back to SV, he can't get a refund. I mean no disrepect to any SVS owners out there - I am sure you are happy with your systems, but Primus is the better deal.

You agree? I think the poster you responded to was stating they preferred the SVS by a wide margin. Interesting to see such differing opinions.
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post #79 of 3972 Old 09-23-2006, 07:54 AM
 
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This is going to be risky, given the direction of this thread.

My experience with the 150's are that they are a decent, small, speaker that goes very loud and can take a real beating and still keep on functioning. I find the bass muddy and not very tight at all and the midrange sounds constrained. As I can not find much clarity in the midrange, when added to the fact that the bass seems to boom, I really don't believe that these speakers are a great match for a pair of mains in a HT system or critical music listening. For example when my friend brought over a pair of his SVS speakers and we set them up on stands next to the 150's I have, the difference in the sound quality was tremendous. The SVS midrange was crystal and revealing. They didn't fatigue even after considerable listening and still continued to reveal sounds that the 150's just couldn't seem to reproduce. They (SVS) don't have much of a bottom end, but what there is is tight. Both will need a sub. This holds true with what I heard when I also compared them (150's) to a pair of Triangle Titus 202's that I own. The difference in the midrange between the Triangles and the 150's was nothing short of stunning. But its not fair as this is the Triangle "claim to fame"

Of course I did no level matching and my playing around is not meant to be any kind of scientific comparison. Also keep in mind that the SVS cost much more than the 150's and a pair of Triangle Titus 202's, even used, cost upwards of $350 a pair. So should the SVS and Triangle sound better? Of course. Do they sound $300 better? Matter of opinion, an mine is yes. If all you listen to is the 150's you won't have a frame of comparison so you will be happy. If you listen to other speakers alongside them...

As I have posted before, I use my 150's in my music room where I practice guitar. I play them HARD and I play them LOUD, and for that they are outstanding. I'm not really looking for any sort of critical listening experience. And at less than $50 if I blow one up, who cares?

Of course this is just my OPINION and is not meant to knock anybody else's opinion or to infer than anybody else is wrong and I am right. It's just how I hear it. I would go with SVS or Triangle, or one of many other good bookshelf monitor speakers out there. But then, not to be arrogant, I don't have to worry about budget either and I change speakers often just for the fun of it. Right now in my home I have Wharfdales, Triangles, Infinity's, Vandersteen, and a great pair of old Vintage Altecs I picked up as a project. I have also owned, Dunlavy, Axiom, and too many others to remember.
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post #80 of 3972 Old 09-25-2006, 07:00 PM
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Are there better speakers than primus series? Absolutely ... Way too many to even count, but that is not the point of this thread. I think it is unfair to compare 150s to the speakers, which are 2.5-3 times more expensive (SVS) and/or Triangles which are 4-4.5 times more expensive.

I have not heard SVS SBS-01, but have heard/read good reviews about it. Its price tag of almost 2.5-3 times of primus 150s, may make it less affordable to people on budget. IMO, primus 150s are great value at the current price range.


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I would go with SVS or Triangle, or one of many other good bookshelf monitor speakers out there. But then, not to be arrogant, I don't have to worry about budget either and I change speakers often just for the fun of it.

I am happy for you, but for most some of us, who still have to "worry about budget" primus series is a great value at this price point.
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post #81 of 3972 Old 09-25-2006, 09:17 PM
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I don't think it's unfair at all to compare the 150's to the SVS speakers. After all, the SVS speakers are $225 a pair - hardly a high end speaker. And I refuse to believe they sound much if any better than the 150's. I've heard the Ascend 170s which run $348 a pair and wasn't impressed.

So if you guys are telling me SVS is the real deal - perhaps I should order them and A/B them myself against the 150's.

As for "worrying about budget", just remember because something is cheap doesn't mean it is inferior. If the SVS speakers were selling for $49 each, my guess is all the pumpers around here would start pumping something else and stop bashing the 150's. A big part of the speaker "mystique" is how much you paid for it and what they look like - how else does this industry justify somebody dropping several thousand dollars on certain brands of speakers? It certainly isn't the sound quality that does it.

Just IMO.
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post #82 of 3972 Old 09-26-2006, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mltv View Post

I don't think it's unfair at all to compare the 150's to the SVS speakers. After all, the SVS speakers are $225 a pair - hardly a high end speaker. And I refuse to believe they sound much if any better than the 150's. I've heard the Ascend 170s which run $348 a pair and wasn't impressed.

As I have not auditioned either of them (sbs-01 or 170SE), I can't say about the SQ, but at current prices they are at least 2.5 to 4 times more expensive and if I am looking for a speaker in certain price range, why would I even compare it with something which is 3 times or more expensive.

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So if you guys are telling me SVS is the real deal - perhaps I should order them and A/B them myself against the 150's.

You will end up paying return shipping for them. Why not just borrow it for a day or two from your friend. I will love to hear the results.

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As for "worrying about budget", just remember because something is cheap doesn't mean it is inferior.

Agreed. 150s sound quite good and current prices make them a great value.
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post #83 of 3972 Old 09-26-2006, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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At 4X the MSRP of the Primus 250's, my B&W 602's were a definite, audible step up. I am not at all convinced that anything less would have been. (The 250's sounded better to me than the $450 Klipsch's that I initially thought of as an "upgrade".)
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post #84 of 3972 Old 09-26-2006, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

At 4X the MSRP of the Primus 250's, my B&W 602's were a definite, audible step up. I am not at all convinced that anything less would have been. (The 250's sounded better to me than the $450 Klipsch's that I initially thought of as an "upgrade".)

We all can learn from that, so would it be fair to say that it is better to wait (and save some more money) than doing a lot of intermediate upgrade in search of better SQ.
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post #85 of 3972 Old 09-26-2006, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by axs View Post

As I have not auditioned either of them (sbs-01 or 170SE), I can't say about the SQ, but at current prices they are at least 2.5 to 4 times more expensive and if I am looking for a speaker in certain price range, why would I even compare it with something which is 3 times or more expensive.



You will end up paying return shipping for them. Why not just borrow it for a day or two from your friend. I will love to hear the results.



Agreed. 150s sound quite good and current prices make them a great value.

Yeah well I don't really have a "friend" who owns the SBS speakers. My post was a farce, tongue in cheek. I did it to prove a point. I read all kinds of crap on these forums about people who have friends who own other speakers and that is all they are, crap. Other people read it and believe. Nobody ever questions those kind of posts. How many guys do you know who actually own an obscure Internet direct brand of speaker?

That being said, I still think the Primus would hold up in a real comparison to SBS if somebody actually did one.

Now... if you are looking for a good deal on Infinity subwoofer check out the CC price on the PS-8, it's running at $110 after rebate. I purchased one tonight, am going to add it to my setup to complement the PS-12 sub I already have.

Making my HT current setup this:

Primus 250's front
Primus C25 center
Primus 150's side surrrounds
Primus 140's back surrounds
PS-12 sub (front)
PS-8 sub (rear)

Total cost of this package is about $800. Best speaker deal due to the discounts available now.
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post #86 of 3972 Old 09-27-2006, 06:45 AM
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Now... if you are looking for a good deal on Infinity subwoofer check out the CC price on the PS-8, it's running at $110 after rebate. I purchased one tonight, am going to add it to my setup to complement the PS-12 sub I already have.

Making my HT current setup this:

Primus 250's front
Primus C25 center
Primus 150's side surrrounds
Primus 140's back surrounds
PS-12 sub (front)
PS-8 sub (rear)

Do you really need both PS12 and PS8? I have PS12 and it is plenty for my room, which is almost 22' x 12' x 8'.

Do you have a large room (or a room leading to lot of open areas)? How are you planning to connect this new subwoofer to the receiver?
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Originally Posted by axs View Post

Do you really need both PS12 and PS8? I have PS12 and it is plenty for my room, which is almost 22' x 12' x 8'.

Do you have a large room (or a room leading to lot of open areas)? How are you planning to connect this new subwoofer to the receiver?

I will add that the surround channels contain very little bass in any event.
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post #88 of 3972 Old 09-27-2006, 07:30 AM
 
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Yeah well I don't really have a "friend" who owns the SBS speakers. My post was a farce, tongue in cheek. I did it to prove a point. I read all kinds of crap on these forums about people who have friends who own other speakers and that is all they are, crap. Other people read it and believe. Nobody ever questions those kind of posts. How many guys do you know who actually own an obscure Internet direct brand of speaker?

.

An arrogant and insulting post from an obviously arrogant and insulting person. Frankly, YOU were the one who lied and then accuse others of doing the same thing. We tend to judge others by our own standards, don't we? You lie and so expect that others are as well. Just because you have no ethics don't assume others don't. How many people do you know who own Dunlavy? or Triangle? Not very many and I have owned them all. Or Axiom? I love to buy and play around with obscure brands of speakers because I can. I have also owned Infinity RS1's, RS2's, Infinity Overture 2's, and have a pair 150's. If you aren't going to believe anybody unless you can "see" the actual speaker and listen for yourself why are you even here? Somebody asked about SVS and I responded. I am a 150 owner so I have as much right to be on this thread as anybody. Check any of my other post over the 4+ years I have been around here and you will see I have NO agenda. I push NO speaker brand.

Frankly, if I had a budget of what the 150's cost and wanted a speaker for my HT system in that range, knowing what I know now, I'd look for a few used pairs of RS2's and mate them with an Infinity CC2. Absolutly wonderful Infinity speakers that have a brilliant midrange. Don't know why Infinity went away from the RS series. I always found them to be outstanding. And the CC center channel speakers were some of the best center channel speakers Infinity ever produced. But who knows maybe I'm just a lier like you, whose agenda is to get people to only buy used speakers. Yeah, that's the ticket. I think I'll waste my time on an internet site to BS people into buying used Infinity speakers.

I wouldn't accept any advice from anybody who openly admitted to posting a lie, as you have just done, for any reason.
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post #89 of 3972 Old 09-27-2006, 07:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by axs View Post

Are there better speakers than primus series? Absolutely ... Way too many to even count, but that is not the point of this thread. I think it is unfair to compare 150s to the speakers, which are 2.5-3 times more expensive (SVS) and/or Triangles which are 4-4.5 times more expensive.

I have not heard SVS SBS-01, but have heard/read good reviews about it. Its price tag of almost 2.5-3 times of primus 150s, may make it less affordable to people on budget. IMO, primus 150s are great value at the current price range.



I am happy for you, but for most some of us, who still have to "worry about budget" primus series is a great value at this price point.

I completly agree with this post. I was just responding to a question not looking to offend or insult anyone, regardless of what "others" whose honesty must be questioned, might think. I have owned many Infinity speakers and own some now. I like Infinity and have loved some. (Overture and RS series) I have found the Infinity midrange usually sounds great to me, just not in the 150's.
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post #90 of 3972 Old 09-27-2006, 08:21 AM
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Just wanted to add ... I am using 150s for surrounds and not particularly looking for deep bass etc. They fit quite well in that role. I agree that given the options (and if I could afford), I will not use them as mains.
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