Infinity Primus Owner's Thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 3972 Old 09-22-2008, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pcdo View Post

Also, I saw in craigslist someone in my area selling Infinity Interlude IL50's. I'm not sure if these would even match sound-wise with the Primus series. Anyone with experience mixing these two models?

The IL50s were a much more expensive speaker than the best Primus. They have built in powered subs. And they use CMMD drivers instead of the MMD drivers in the Primus line. Chances are the IL50 is a better speaker. They probably won't be a perfect match, but you'll probably love 'em anyway (I have IL60s).

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post #1172 of 3972 Old 09-24-2008, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by GLBright View Post

The IL50s were a much more expensive speaker than the best Primus. They have built in powered subs. And they use CMMD drivers instead of the MMD drivers in the Primus line. Chances are the IL50 is a better speaker. They probably won't be a perfect match, but you'll probably love 'em anyway (I have IL60s).

I would imagine the IL50's are better speakers. I just figure with actual subwoofers I'd end up setting the crossover at probably 80hz, thus making the lower extension and bult in sub of those nice speakers useless. In that case I might as well stick with the 360/p362 since they'll be cheaper since they don't extend as low. I'm thinking maybe since that's the case I might only just need an extra set of 250's if I don't really need bass extension on them given I'm using a subwoofer. I guess no one in this thread, at least within the Las Vegas/LA area, has 360's they don't want anymore. That's okay. I wouldn't want to get rid of mine either if I had them. But again, PM me if you do have a set. Thanks.
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post #1173 of 3972 Old 09-24-2008, 07:57 PM
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I have been waiting and waiting, but seems like the So.Cal areas havent gotten the $99 in awhile.
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post #1174 of 3972 Old 09-24-2008, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lotc View Post

I have been waiting and waiting, but seems like the So.Cal areas havent gotten the $99 in awhile.

You already have 3 sets (as mentioned in your sig). You want more?! Now that's impressive . You're either single or have a very understanding wife.
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post #1175 of 3972 Old 09-25-2008, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lotc View Post

I have been waiting and waiting, but seems like the So.Cal areas havent gotten the $99 in awhile.

I just got the 362 at Fry's for $99 each two weeks ago.
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post #1176 of 3972 Old 09-25-2008, 05:26 PM
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I just got the 362 at Fry's for $99 each two weeks ago.

.....Noooo!!!!!
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post #1177 of 3972 Old 09-25-2008, 11:34 PM
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Are you guys talking about Fry's Electronics? If so the one up here in Washington doesn't sell the Primus's....on Video Only...I was thinking of getting a few more for my rears...dang...this sucks..
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post #1178 of 3972 Old 10-02-2008, 06:34 PM
 
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I have to respectfully disagree with the notion that the P360's and 362's performance is anywhere near entry level. In personal conversations at Harman with several of the people who were responsible for the design and testing of the Primus line, I was told that the P360/362 in particular are standouts in every respect. I was able to view the MLL measurements for the P360, and they indeed perform very well compared to speakers many multiples of their pricepoint. In the case of the 360/362, what you've got is a case of one of the world's finest speaker design houses putting one of their best engineers on a project and giving him extra time to focus on a particular model. The result was that the entry-level parts list comprising the 360/362 performs as well as it possibly could. Many other speakers can claim more expensive components, but they don't get the benefit of genius speaker designer + the planet's best design/test facility + extra time to refine the design. When you see the objective evidence of how good this speaker is, you wonder what the heck is wrong with their marketing. They've not told the story of how exceptionally good the 360/362 is. And we, as audio hobbyists who can't get such inside information, have to rely on other ways of determining quality such as: price, marketing info, parts, aesthetics, reviews, etc. Unfortunately, the marketing folks over at Harman haven't seen fit to release the detailed charts on how well their speakers perform, so we have to rely on the indicators I mentioned to get some sort of idea of how well individual speakers perform. To see the chart I'm talking about, you can go to jblpro.com and look at the charts on their monitors, such as the 6328p. You can read up on the theory behind these measurements by checking out the white papers on infinity's site. The story is really amazing, and they show you how smart we all are for being Primus owners. I have 360's, 160's, 150's and 140's. I also own Intermezzo 2.6p's and the aforementioned JBL 6328p's. It's amazing how little tradeoff there is between the 360's, which I got for $300 on ebay, and the 6328p, which has an incredibly flat frequency response and a list price of $2,600 a pair. Sure the 6328p's are better in almost every respect, but only marginally so. Unless, of course, you're always listening at highest SPL's a human can stand. But if you're listening at normal volume levels, the 360's are in no way to be considered entry level. For example, the P360 is preferable to even Harman's own Beta series as well as the Interlude series (unless of course you're just interested in the superior bass response of the IL's). Hopefully this helps any of you who had begun to doubt the 360's unusually good performance. It's a truly exceptional speaker. If you own a pair, you can rest assured that you'd have to spend a lot of money and do a lot of research to find anything better. It may be hard to believe that such a pedestrian looking product can perform so well, but fortunately for us, it does. Again, consider that the P360, which has thinner cabinets and "MMD" versus "CMMD" performs better overall than the Beta speakers and the Interlude speakers. I'm not talking about subjective reviews here, I'm talking about objective measurements -- in one of the most sophisticated labs on the planet. I'm sure they didn't plan it this way and they may not have been very happy about this, but it's just how it worked out. If I were in their shoes I would put a wood veneer on the P360's and sell them for $1500.
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post #1179 of 3972 Old 10-03-2008, 04:52 AM
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First you say"Unfortunately, the marketing folks over at Harman haven't seen fit to release the detailed charts on how well their speakers perform"

And then you say"
Again, consider that the P360, which has thinner cabinets and "MMD" versus "CMMD" performs better overall than the Beta speakers and the Interlude speakers. I'm not talking about subjective reviews here, I'm talking about objective measurements -- in one of the most sophisticated labs on the planet. I'm sure they didn't plan it this way and they may not have been very happy about this, but it's just how it worked out."

I'm not argueing with you but these 2 statements seem to contradict themselves. There's more to speaker design than just drivers and cabinets. The Preludes may very well measure better...they are a newer design than the discontinued Betas but without actual objective measurements of them all as they are produced it's a bit of a stretch to project the actual performance. We also know that lab measurements do not tell the whole story about how a speaker will actual sound in the real world.

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post #1180 of 3972 Old 10-03-2008, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luna5 View Post

The Preludes may very well measure better...they are a newer design than the discontinued Betas but without actual objective measurements of them all as they are produced it's a bit of a stretch to project the actual performance. We also know that lab measurements do not tell the whole story about how a speaker will actual sound in the real world.

I didn't see anything in the post about Preludes at all. He mentioned Interludes (which comprise my front three - IL60s and IL36c). And I would also imagine that he was speaking about actual listening comparisons, not just spec sheets.

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post #1181 of 3972 Old 10-03-2008, 11:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luna5 View Post

First you say"Unfortunately, the marketing folks over at Harman haven't seen fit to release the detailed charts on how well their speakers perform"

And then you say"
Again, consider that the P360, which has thinner cabinets and "MMD" versus "CMMD" performs better overall than the Beta speakers and the Interlude speakers. I'm not talking about subjective reviews here, I'm talking about objective measurements -- in one of the most sophisticated labs on the planet. I'm sure they didn't plan it this way and they may not have been very happy about this, but it's just how it worked out."

I'm not arguing with you but these 2 statements seem to contradict themselves. There's more to speaker design than just drivers and cabinets. The Preludes may very well measure better...they are a newer design than the discontinued Betas but without actual objective measurements of them all as they are produced it's a bit of a stretch to project the actual performance. We also know that lab measurements do not tell the whole story about how a speaker will actual sound in the real world.


Let me try to explain a little more, as I can see where my statements may have not been very clear. My point was that even though these speakers have a cheaper parts list than many other (including harman's own Beta's for example) they perform better -- both in objective measurements and in listener preference testing. Remember that Harman is out on the forefront of being able to meaningfully correlate objective measurements with listener preference because of the large body of work performed there by Toole, Olive, et al. There is more real, objective, ruthless science being performed at Harman on our behalf than perhaps anywhere else in the world. Other speaker manufacturers (particularly the Canadians who use the NRC facilities) practice similar methods, but Harman has carried it further than anybody else. If you have not read the white papers on Infinity's site, then you owe it to yourself to do so. Just Google "infinity white papers".

These people have developed the industry's most rigorous development and testing standards. The important thing to note is that they have the most sophisticated way of measuring whether anybody can hear the results of their engineering efforts. They don't rely on the ears of a particular 'guru'. They have teams of highly qualified people directed by one of the foremost acoustic authorities on planet earth (ok, Toole's retired now, and the team thoroughly practices the objective methodology). Every speaker they make gets put through the torture test of double-blind testing by trained listeners. If you have not read about this process you really should. It will make you question the whole model of using one designer who tests speakers "by ear." Harman's methodology is much more rigorous, much more objective, and much more scientific. They are so efficient at this methodology that their speakers are vastly more refined than the average "audiophile" speaker made by small boutique companies. When it comes to cabinet resonances, for instance, Harman has done a great deal of research on what type of resonances are more detrimental to the final product, and so they are able to prioritize which resonances they go after. So when you judge the weight of a primus speaker versus a heavier speaker from another manufacturer, keep in mind that Harman knows exactly what resonances this speaker makes and has minimized the worst ones and worked their way down the list. I'm not saying that the Primus is resonance free (i.e., perfect), but I am saying that most speaker manufacturers -- particularly the boutique ones -- can't afford this type of analytical equipment and are not able to perform the original research to determine which type of resonances are the worst and how they are best tamed. Harman has more Ph D's running around than most, doing original research, publishing papers in the AES, reviewing each other's work. It's an amazing environment. That's why, when I got a little inside info that the primus series was well though-of inside Harman, and that the P360/362's in particular caused quite a stir, I wanted to pass that along. Comments like that say the 360's aren't good for serious two-channel listening just aren't true. It's not my ears I'm relying on, it's the objective reports from inside Harman that these speakers trounced (now discontinued) Harman products as well as vastly more expensive speakers from other competitive manufacturers. It's just that the Primus project went extremely well, and that the engineering that went into them - cabinets, drivers, crossovers...everything came together in a wonderful way and exceeded expectations. Who knows? Maybe a couple years from now when they put out a replacement line it won't be quite as good. Maybe they will be better. I have no idea. I just wanted to post on this topic because I read a couple comments in the thread that made it seem as if the primus are entry level. From a marketing standpoint they are, but from a measurement and listener preference perspective, they are extremely good. So good, in fact, that people who trade them away looking for something a little better will probably trade down. In my case, I had owned some $1500 Monitor Audio RS8's, and when I heard the P360's, I immediately put the RS8's up for sale. I ended up returning the P360's because I thought, "These are so good at $300 per pair, I wonder what Infinity can give me if I spend a little more money." Crutchfield offers free return shipping so I sent the Primus's back. I got some Beta 40's and some IL 40's (craigslist) and immediately regretted it. Both were good speakers but did not have the all-around performance of the P360's. So I got rid of the above and tracked down some P360's again. This is why I say you take a risk when you think you can do a little better than the P360's by spending a few hundred more dollars. It may be possible, but it's not likely. I had previously owned Paradigm Reference Studio 60's, several models from Castle, Triangle, B&W, Quad 12L actives, and some others. So far the only thing I prefer to the primus line is the Intermezzo 2.6p. A little better imaging and transparency. But just a little. The JBL 6328p is pretty amazing in regards to transparency and power (it is a biamplified studio monitor with super-flat frequency response) but again it is only marginally better at normal room volumes. I've discovered that diminishing returns kicks in really hard and fast after you go past the Primus 360. They really are a very serious speaker.

Hope that helps a little bit. I also hope to not come across as argumentative, but to say, hey, we really have found a gem here, and it's not just all in our heads. Even at full retail these speakers are a bargain.
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post #1182 of 3972 Old 10-03-2008, 11:13 AM
 
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One more interesting tidbit: several of the guys I talked to at Harman have surround setups existing of P150's for all channels -- including center. These are people who know good performance and they could presumably get more expensive speakers at some sort of discount...and they have P150 surround setups...and listen to music thru them!!! Very eye-opening.
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post #1183 of 3972 Old 10-03-2008, 09:09 PM
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Went back to Frys again today. P362 still $299 each. The waiting continues...
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post #1184 of 3972 Old 10-04-2008, 07:33 PM
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Just picked up a P362 for $66 (remanufactured from Infinity) from Ebay moments ago.........now to wait for another one to show up . I had a chance to listen to monitor 50s and the P362 and the P362 are a lot better with more noticable bass. BTW, Polk monitor 50's are on sale this weekend at Frys for $99 piece.

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post #1185 of 3972 Old 10-04-2008, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Fragster View Post

Just picked up a P362 for $66 (remanufactured from Infinity) from Ebay moments ago.........now to wait for another one to show up . I had a chance to listen to monitor 50s and the P362 and the P362 are a lot better with more noticable bass. BTW, Polk monitor 50's are on sale this weekend at Frys for $99 piece.

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LOL! I was looking at that auction too. I decided not to bid though. I actually still really want to get a set of 360's. I guess I'm just being anal. They actually had another p362 ending like 1-2 hours after that one you bought. You should have been on that cause I think it was going fairly cheap too.
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post #1186 of 3972 Old 10-05-2008, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pcdo View Post

LOL! I was looking at that auction too. I decided not to bid though. I actually still really want to get a set of 360's. I guess I'm just being anal. They actually had another p362 ending like 1-2 hours after that one you bought. You should have been on that cause I think it was going fairly cheap too.

LOL...hopefully I didn't cut another fellow AVS'er..

What's the difference between the 360/362?

Thanks
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post #1187 of 3972 Old 10-05-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Fragster View Post

LOL...hopefully I didn't cut another fellow AVS'er..

What's the difference between the 360/362?

Thanks
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Purely cosmetic.
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post #1188 of 3972 Old 10-15-2008, 05:33 PM
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Picked up the other pair yesterady for $118. Anyway, received the first refurb from Infinity last week and man, they are almost brand new. No cosmetic damages either. Speaker had plastic wrapping all around and the 5 yr warranty card.

Disconnected my current Polk R50 and hooked up the P362 with 16 gauge cable....played Black Hawn Down BR and the sound off the P362 is definitely louder with slightly more bass compared to my other R50.

Very happy with the performance (of course there are better speakers out there but at under $250/pair, the P362's are a no-brainer).

The R50's will become my rears so towers all way around now for me!

But it took me 3 EBay tries before I scored on these refurbs from Inifinity. Appears there's still a lot of demand (and if u get luckly like I did on my first one....$66 :-)).

PS: Weird thing is the P362's blend in extremely well (audio wise) with my Polk Csi3 center. I'm holding off the center upgrade based on this alone.

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post #1189 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 05:38 AM
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Sort of ignorant question but this is the first time I've had "real" speakers so to speak.

How do I remove the black/red covers on the binding posts (on where to insert banana plugs) of the Primus line?

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post #1190 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by blued888 View Post

Sort of ignorant question but this is the first time I've had "real" speakers so to speak.

How do I remove the black/red covers on the binding posts (on where to insert banana plugs) of the Primus line?

From my quick look at my Primus months ago (currently stored in boxes). I think you just twist them open and just plug the banana plug into the hole. That was the reason I felt that the spade would be a better fit than banana plugs, but again I could be wrong cuz I haven't look at these speakers for awhile.
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post #1191 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 09:17 AM
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From my quick look at my Primus months ago (currently stored in boxes). I think you just twist them open and just plug the banana plug into the hole. That was the reason I felt that the spade would be a better fit than banana plugs, but again I could be wrong cuz I haven't look at these speakers for awhile.

The red/black covers where the banana plugs go seem to be some sort of hard plastic.

I tried twisting the binding posts open and tried to stick something in the area where the banana plugs go but as I said, they are made of some sort of hard plastic.

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post #1192 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by blued888 View Post

The red/black covers where the banana plugs go seem to be some sort of hard plastic.

I tried twisting the binding posts open and tried to stick something in the area where the banana plugs go but as I said, they are made of some sort of hard plastic.

Here is how mine looks:


LL
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post #1193 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blued888 View Post

The red/black covers where the banana plugs go seem to be some sort of hard plastic.

I tried twisting the binding posts open and tried to stick something in the area where the banana plugs go but as I said, they are made of some sort of hard plastic.


I just used my pocket knife to pop them off.
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post #1194 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 01:29 PM
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Here is a purely subjective, sighted comparison I did involving the Primus 362 I think you guys might enjoy.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=48411
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post #1195 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 03:09 PM
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I just used my pocket knife to pop them off.

Thanks.

Can you put still them back after popping them off? I'm still deciding whether to go with bananas or spades.

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post #1196 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 03:33 PM
 
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Yeah, you can jam them back in there if you want to.
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post #1197 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by blued888 View Post

Thanks.

Can you put still them back after popping them off? I'm still deciding whether to go with bananas or spades.

I use locking banana connectors with great success.

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post #1198 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Here is how mine looks:

Try to pop out the red/black plastic (try a miniature flat screw driver) and insert the banana plugs there instead. Your speaker wires look a bit strained.

And guess what, while I was waiting for an answer in this thread, I decided to e-mail Infinity Customer Support and they replied with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Hanney, Harman Technical Support View Post


Hello,

Thank you for the inquiry. The binding posts used on the Primus series cannot accommodate a banana plug. We apologize for this inconvenience.

Best Regards,

Sean Hanney
Harman Technical Support
HCGCustomerSupport4@harman.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt34 View Post

I use locking banana connectors with great success.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I might go with spades or banana plugs with rubber/plastic bodies to minimize the risk of shorting.

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post #1199 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blued888 View Post

Your speaker wires look a bit strained.

I pulled them up for the pic........
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post #1200 of 3972 Old 10-16-2008, 11:29 PM
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can a P362 be use as a center? and how?
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