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post #6691 of 6879 Old 05-21-2014, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

My $0.02:
- Ditch the Integra and buy a Marantz unit. I've had an Integra and it sounded horrible with my Kef Reference speakers
- Run Audyssey (DUH!)

I would consider that wasting money.

Changing from the excellent Integra 80.3 to a Marantz will not change the sound at all if both pre-pro are in the same mode - for example, Direct mode vs Direct mode, Audyssey Bypass L/R + DEQ vs Audyssey Bypass L/R + DEQ.
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post #6692 of 6879 Old 05-21-2014, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I would consider that wasting money.

Changing from the excellent Integra 80.3 to a Marantz will not change the sound at all if both pre-pro are in the same mode - for example, Direct mode vs Direct mode, Audyssey Bypass L/R + DEQ vs Audyssey Bypass L/R + DEQ.

From my own experience, the Marantz puts the Integra to shame especially when using Reference KEF speakers. The Integra sounds like a receiver, where the Marantz unit sounds more like a high end pre/pro
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post #6693 of 6879 Old 05-21-2014, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by exm View Post

From my own experience, the Marantz puts the Integra to shame especially when using Reference KEF speakers. The Integra sounds like a receiver, where the Marantz unit sounds more like a high end pre/pro

And the snozberries taste like snozberries!

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post #6694 of 6879 Old 05-22-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by exm View Post

From my own experience, the Marantz puts the Integra to shame especially when using Reference KEF speakers. The Integra sounds like a receiver, where the Marantz unit sounds more like a high end pre/pro

The Marantz and Integra will have no sound of their own if they are working properly (i.e. not defective) and the amplifiers are not being driven to the point of distortion. You won't be able to measure a difference. And you can't hear what you can't measure.

However, the difference you're hearing could be your cables. I've found their effect on SQ to be profound, particularly with high resolution speakers.

When I upgraded to Von Gaylord Audio's "Return of the Legend" ($4,995 10ft pair) and listened to "Diana Krall live in Poughkeepsie", it was as if I was third row back, 12 seats in (seat "L"), with the people sitting on either side of me wearing cable-knit sweaters providing just the right balance of diffusion and absorption.

By contrast, my Audioquest DBS cables (only $500 a pair) placed me in the men's room, sixth stall over with one of the urinals automatically flushing even though no one was standing in front of it. To say the midrange with the more expensive and better looking Von Gaylord's was liquid would be an understatement. I would describe it as more "humid." But not an uncomfortable humidity, like Florida in the summer. More like North Carolina in late Spring.

But the true upgrade was when I switched to Transparent Reference XL Speaker Cables ($12,000). I had to borrow against my 401K to afford them but I've never looked back. People talk about a "veil being lifted" but this was more like a beekeeper's mask being removed from my head. Suddenly, my cheap and ugly Von Gaylord Audio cables sounded honky and acidic. I've since relocated them to my kitchen system but continue to be disappointed despite room treatments on the cereal cabinets and bass traps inside the refrigerator.

To confirm what I was hearing wasn't all in my head, I then hooked up the Von Gaylord Audio cables to my left speaker and the Transparent Reference's to my right speaker.

I had just started playing "Dave Matthews and Ryan Reynolds at Radio City" when my wife walked in and immediately said, "What's wrong with the left speaker? It sounds like it's broken... Did you swap out the pre-pro for a receiver?"

smile.gif

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post #6695 of 6879 Old 05-22-2014, 09:56 AM
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^^ Side-Splitting! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #6696 of 6879 Old 05-22-2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

The Marantz and Integra will have no sound of their own if they are working properly (i.e. not defective) and the amplifiers are not being driven to the point of distortion. You won't be able to measure a difference. And you can't hear what you can't measure.

However, the difference you're hearing could be your cables. I've found their effect on SQ to be profound, particularly with high resolution speakers.

When I upgraded to Von Gaylord Audio's "Return of the Legend" ($4,995 10ft pair) and listened to "Diana Krall live in Poughkeepsie", it was as if I was third row back, 12 seats in (seat "L"), with the people sitting on either side of me wearing cable-knit sweaters providing just the right balance of diffusion and absorption.

By contrast, my Audioquest DBS cables (only $500 a pair) placed me in the men's room, sixth stall over with one of the urinals automatically flushing even though no one was standing in front of it. To say the midrange with the more expensive and better looking Von Gaylord's was liquid would be an understatement. I would describe it as more "humid." But not an uncomfortable humidity, like Florida in the summer. More like North Carolina in late Spring.

But the true upgrade was when I switched to Transparent Reference XL Speaker Cables ($12,000). I had to borrow against my 401K to afford them but I've never looked back. People talk about a "veil being lifted" but this was more like a beekeeper's mask being removed from my head. Suddenly, my cheap and ugly Von Gaylord Audio cables sounded honky and acidic. I've since relocated them to my kitchen system but continue to be disappointed despite room treatments on the cereal cabinets and bass traps inside the refrigerator.

To confirm what I was hearing wasn't all in my head, I then hooked up the Von Gaylord Audio cables to my left speaker and the Transparent Reference's to my right speaker.

I had just started playing "Dave Matthews and Ryan Reynolds at Radio City" when my wife walked in and immediately said, "What's wrong with the left speaker? It sounds like it's broken... Did you swap out the pre-pro for a receiver?"

smile.gif

I'm quite sure one would be able to measure differences (with proper electronics measuring gear). Practically every piece of gear measures differently from every other one; and even two samples of the same piece of gear will have small measurable differences. But, yeah, I agree they shouldn't be audible.

As for the rest of it: eek.gif

biggrin.gif

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post #6697 of 6879 Old 05-22-2014, 03:54 PM
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Whoa, cables please!  I think not the same is true for the processor I think the issue is probably more placement and room. So I will work on that first and then run Audyssey and see.

 

In regards to cables, please that is a discussion I don't even want to have as my opinion is that cables are a big marketing BS!  I use Mogami, Belden or Canaree which are used in all recording studios

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post #6698 of 6879 Old 05-22-2014, 04:07 PM
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I just wanted to share my opinion, folks... This is not about cables vs amps vs pre-amps. I've been a long time KEF user and I started out years back with the Marantz AV600 driving KEF Q90s. Throughout the years I've upgraded all the way up to the Lexicon MC-12 platform. Some upgrades really did not matter (hello, placebo!), but a few them made a noticeable difference. Sorry, but the Onkyo line simply doesn't match up to the Marantz sound. Simple as that. But again, that's my own opinion. Hopefully the poster I was quoting might consider a Marantz unit next, and enjoy his speaker so much more.
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post #6699 of 6879 Old 05-22-2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

I'm quite sure one would be able to measure differences (with proper electronics measuring gear). Practically every piece of gear measures differently from every other one; and even two samples of the same piece of gear will have small measurable differences. But, yeah, I agree they shouldn't be audible.

As for the rest of it: eek.gif

biggrin.gif
Yes I don't doubt that is true. I was thinking more along the lines of measuring the FR from a set of speakers using the receiver and then the pre pro. In the end, we agree that it wouldn't be audible.

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post #6700 of 6879 Old 05-22-2014, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Whoa, cables please!  I think not the same is true for the processor I think the issue is probably more placement and room. So I will work on that first and then run Audyssey and see.

In regards to cables, please that is a discussion I don't even want to have as my opinion is that cables are a big marketing BS!  I use Mogami, Belden or Canaree which are used in all recording studios
My cables rant was obviously a joke to illustrate my opinion that there are things that matter (speakers and the room they are in) and things that don't really matter much at all (big bucks receivers, overpriced cables, etc.) Not looking to get into the old cables debate. Just having fun.

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post #6701 of 6879 Old 05-22-2014, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

My cables rant was obviously a joke to illustrate my opinion that there are things that matter (speakers and the room they are in) and things that don't really matter much at all (big bucks receivers, overpriced cables, etc.) Not looking to get into the old cables debate. Just having fun.

Oh good, I was worried there biggrin.gif
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post #6702 of 6879 Old 05-22-2014, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

Yes I don't doubt that is true. I was thinking more along the lines of measuring the FR from a set of speakers using the receiver and then the pre pro. In the end, we agree that it wouldn't be audible.

Yeah, I thought that's what you might have meant (and I agree). I specifically put in the "proper electronics measuring gear" part because I agree with you that with something like REW, you won't measure a difference. But with, say, an Audio Precision, you would be able to measure some differences.

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post #6703 of 6879 Old 05-23-2014, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

+1 the curved cabinet work was one of the nicest features. That's a shame, basically looks like the R series.

+1. Guess I will be keeping my 205/2s. Not sure what they are thinking. SJ
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post #6704 of 6879 Old 05-26-2014, 04:03 AM
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Hi all,

 

just posted this in the speaker sector, but i guess in here it is better placed. ;)

 

i'm looking for new speakers and wouldn't call myself an expert audiophilius.

 

the last time i bought loudpeakers is 20years ago.

 

Listening mainly to classic rock and blues rock i went to the speaker dealer today.

 

I listened to a tannoy (even can't reminder as i didn't like the sound at all), Kef R300 and B&W CM-5.


All in the same prize range.


The R300 was a litte ahead compared to the B&W. 

 

Wonderful bass sounds, i couldn't believe what came out of these speakers.


In my ears the R300 sounds super solid through all ranges but maybe lacks a little bit in clarity in the mids compared to the B&W.

 

But overall i liked the R300 very much.


As money does matter in my case i did not yet purchase it.

 

Coming to my question:
 

The KEF XQ20 is available in a german online store for a bargain. 


I never listened to it but knowing it came in the stores about 30% more expensive then the R300.

 

I know you should never buy a loudpeaker without having listened to it, but as i love the R300 i ask myself if the XQ20 is somehow the same kind or maybe even superior due to the fact that i was sold more expensive.

 

Does somebody have any experience in listening to both of them in a similar setting?

 

What do you think? 


Sorry for my bad english, thank you so much in advance for your feedback!!

 

Best regards from Munich, Germany

Serge

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post #6705 of 6879 Old 05-26-2014, 05:30 AM
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The R300 is an improvement over the XQ20 in some important ways. It's a three way configuration giving a more stable waveguide for the tweeter. The mid and tweeter will also have better matched directivities (5" and 1" vs 6.5" and 0.75").

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
Living room: Panasonic TC-P60VT60, 3 KEF LS50, Pioneer SW-8, Marantz NR1603
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post #6706 of 6879 Old 05-26-2014, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post

The R300 is an improvement over the XQ20 in some important ways. It's a three way configuration giving a more stable waveguide for the tweeter. The mid and tweeter will also have better matched directivities (5" and 1" vs 6.5" and 0.75").

Completely agree with SS. The current Uni-Q is a big improvement. The XQ's look nicer for sure. But I would definitely get the R300. Or, if that's a bit out of your price range, get something from the new Q range. The Q900 is great. Or you could go for the the Q100 with a pair of subs, or the Q500 with a nice sub. That would be my choice. Or patiently wait and see if you can buy a set of used R300's.

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post #6707 of 6879 Old 05-26-2014, 06:41 AM
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I own XQ40s (currently surrounds) and have heard R700s. Based on that and what I have read I would recommend the R300s over the XQ20s.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #6708 of 6879 Old 05-26-2014, 08:41 PM
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If anyone is looking for KEF Q100s, I have 2 pairs for sale in the classifieds section.
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post #6709 of 6879 Old 05-28-2014, 04:16 PM
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Have any of you heard the Tannoy DC10A
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post #6710 of 6879 Old 05-28-2014, 05:46 PM
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Looking to change to KEF in my main theater with Q900s and was wondering if the older Xq50c center was a decent match for them or would I be better off with the newer Q200C? Thanks!

Samsung 51" Plasma E530, Pioneer SC-1222-K, Sony BDP-S5200, Roku 3, Custom HTPC/XBMC, KEF Q600c -center, KEF Q900- mains, Definitive Technology SM450- side surrounds, Definitive Technology SM350- rear surrounds, Custom sub 'end table' with 12" Oz Audio Matrix Elite, Crown XLS 1500 sub amp, Harmony 650 and IRule remotes
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post #6711 of 6879 Old 05-29-2014, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratified View Post

Looking to change to KEF in my main theater with Q900s and was wondering if the older Xq50c center was a decent match for them or would I be better off with the newer Q200C? Thanks!

I would recommend the Q600C instead. It is better matched to the 900's.
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post #6712 of 6879 Old 05-29-2014, 09:24 PM
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Has any one tried NAD amplifier and KEF LS50 I am using an Integra DC70.1 and feel it's a real poor match!

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post #6713 of 6879 Old 05-31-2014, 10:16 AM
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Is 2,000 bucks a good deal for a 204/2 center channel in chery, mint condition?
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post #6714 of 6879 Old 05-31-2014, 02:22 PM
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Is 2,000 bucks a good deal for a 204/2 center channel in chery, mint condition?
Absolutely! I would love one if it would fit.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #6715 of 6879 Old 06-01-2014, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Has any one tried NAD amplifier and KEF LS50 I am using an Integra DC70.1 and feel it's a real poor match!

I have a NAD T777 receiver and like some other have had an intermittent problem of it shutting off while listening to music. NAD says the receiver/amp is 4 ohm stable but if the speakers dip too far below it can cause it to go into protect. I have KEF R900 which are 8 ohm nominal but list a minimum of 3.7 ohms. The LS50 list a minimum of 3.2 - so I think you may want to check and see if any experience with the particular NAD amp you are interested in. The sound is excellent however and from that perspective pairs well.
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post #6716 of 6879 Old 06-01-2014, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC1991 View Post

I have a NAD T777 receiver and like some other have had an intermittent problem of it shutting off while listening to music. NAD says the receiver/amp is 4 ohm stable but if the speakers dip too far below it can cause it to go into protect. I have KEF R900 which are 8 ohm nominal but list a minimum of 3.7 ohms. The LS50 list a minimum of 3.2 - so I think you may want to check and see if any experience with the particular NAD amp you are interested in. The sound is excellent however and from that perspective pairs well.

Thanks it seems that no many amps will go down to 3 Ohms!
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post #6717 of 6879 Old 06-01-2014, 04:22 PM
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Anybody here have the X300AW. I can't seem to get mine to turn on and am wondering if anyone has run into the issue and has a solution?
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post #6718 of 6879 Old 06-01-2014, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratified View Post

Looking to change to KEF in my main theater with Q900s and was wondering if the older Xq50c center was a decent match for them or would I be better off with the newer Q200C? Thanks!
I had the q200c on loan till my q600c arrived and the difference is quit noticeable.

TV: SONY 65" 4K X900 - AVR: DENON AVR x4000 - AMP: ROTEL RMB 1585 5Ch 200w - OPPO 103D BD PLAYER
CENTRE: KEF Q600c - FRONT L/R: KEF Q900 - WIDE FRONT L/R: KEF Q300
SURROUND L/R: KEF Q800DS's - SURROUND BACK L/R: MINX 21's
SUB: SVS PC13-ULTRA
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post #6719 of 6879 Old 06-03-2014, 02:14 AM
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Well, pulled the trigger on a pair of Q900 and a Q600c. Cant wait to see how they sound setup compared to the Definitives. I think I'm going to move the Definitive sm450 to side surrounds, the sm350s to rear surround duty, and go 7.1. The Definitive clr2000 is heading to the bedroom system. Gotta love new toys!biggrin.gif

Samsung 51" Plasma E530, Pioneer SC-1222-K, Sony BDP-S5200, Roku 3, Custom HTPC/XBMC, KEF Q600c -center, KEF Q900- mains, Definitive Technology SM450- side surrounds, Definitive Technology SM350- rear surrounds, Custom sub 'end table' with 12" Oz Audio Matrix Elite, Crown XLS 1500 sub amp, Harmony 650 and IRule remotes
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post #6720 of 6879 Old 06-03-2014, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratified View Post

Well, pulled the trigger on a pair of Q900 and a Q600c. Cant wait to see how they sound setup compared to the Definitives. I think I'm going to move the Definitive sm450 to side surrounds, the sm350s to rear surround duty, and go 7.1. The Definitive clr2000 is heading to the bedroom system. Gotta love new toys!biggrin.gif
Congrats! Be sure to give us your impressions.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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