KEF Owners Thread - Page 243 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #7261 of 7270 Old 03-28-2015, 07:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jima4a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 1,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
Completely different. I also haven't liked anything I've heard in the cm line. Going to the 800 series isn't so much like "lifting a veil" as much as it's like removing a thick soggy blanket that's been covering the speaker. This is not because the diamond is magical, it's because (to me) it sounds like the cm has no tweeter at all. Just no highs. Ymmv of course.


Sent using Tapatalk since the mobile version is still [emoji107]
Was that the CMS1 or CMS2 you are referring to. To my understanding the series 2 was a big jump. The only CM I have heard was the CM7 which ended my desire to get CM9s.
jima4a is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #7262 of 7270 Old 03-28-2015, 09:46 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: gaithersburg, md
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
Completely different. I also haven't liked anything I've heard in the cm line. Going to the 800 series isn't so much like "lifting a veil" as much as it's like removing a thick soggy blanket that's been covering the speaker. This is not because the diamond is magical, it's because (to me) it sounds like the cm has no tweeter at all. Just no highs. Ymmv of course.


Sent using Tapatalk since the mobile version is still [emoji107]
curious, is this impression based on a particular speaker in the CM line, or based on listening to all of them?

My Current 5.2 Setup - for now....
B&W CM10s (FLR), CMC2, CM5 x2 (SLR)
Dual SVS SB2000s

Rack and Display:
Marantz SR7009, Marantz UD7007, T-PC50st60
[/COLOR]
pickering.tim is online now  
post #7263 of 7270 Old 03-28-2015, 09:54 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: gaithersburg, md
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 14
[QUOTE=ultrahertz;32959017]I have nearly completed my rec room home theater system.

Speakers: Kef R900, R600c, R800ds
Sub: SVS SB 13 ultra
TV: Samsung 78HU9000
Receiver: Onkyo 838
Blu Ray: Oppo 103
Turntable: Onkyo CP1050
very nice looking setup - I think you may have posted some specs for the size of the room but I may have missed them/can't find them. I am wondering how far back the opening on the front left side goes and how large it is. are the speakers firing down the length of the room i assume?

I ask cause cause I dealt with a lot of speaker placement frustrations due to an L shaped room.

My Current 5.2 Setup - for now....
B&W CM10s (FLR), CMC2, CM5 x2 (SLR)
Dual SVS SB2000s

Rack and Display:
Marantz SR7009, Marantz UD7007, T-PC50st60
[/COLOR]
pickering.tim is online now  
post #7264 of 7270 Old 03-28-2015, 04:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ambesolman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,119
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Liked: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Was that the CMS1 or CMS2 you are referring to. To my understanding the series 2 was a big jump. The only CM I have heard was the CM7 which ended my desire to get CM9s.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pickering.tim View Post
curious, is this impression based on a particular speaker in the CM line, or based on listening to all of them?

It was 2 floorstanders and one bookshelf at two different shops on different equipment over the past 2-3yrs. Every time it was the same, very muted highs. Maybe that's what they were going for with the design, who knows, but I can't see what the advantage of such a design would be if it was intentional.


Sent using Tapatalk since the mobile version is still [emoji107]
ambesolman is offline  
post #7265 of 7270 Old 03-29-2015, 07:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
steveting99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,354
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 624 Post(s)
Liked: 192
I've recently purchased some KEF T-series speakers to be mounted in the ceiling for an Atmos height setup.

These are the T101 models and according to KEF's website the lower -3dB limit is rated at 80Hz. Much to my surprise, when reading the owner's manual - it states a much higher recommended crossover frequency setting of 120Hz.

Can other T-sereis owers confirm the above?

I've also got the KEF E301 series of speakers and so far the owner's manual and website matches the recommended lower -3dB freqeuncy of 90Hz.

It kind of bothers me that a reputable manufacturer such as KEF would play this type of trick.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
steveting99 is online now  
post #7266 of 7270 Old 03-29-2015, 08:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,836
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 298
First, question for E305 owners: how do you remove the grill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
It kind of bothers me that a reputable manufacturer such as KEF would play this type of trick.
While i would return the T's for more eggs - it seems that the polar properties of concentric drivers are even more crucial for height effects than for main channels - I don't see a trick. Sure, the speakers might have an F3 of whatever, but F3 is not how low they can play without strain. That depends on clean volume displacement, not frequency response.

For that matter, 90Hz is way too low for E305s's, unless they're in a corner. I actually recently bought a pair of them to test out for Atmos heights, and I think 150Hz is a better approximation of their clean bass limits. Unfortunately, I think the E305 may be a step back from the old HTS3005SE. I'll have to re-measure my HTS3005SE's when I get a chance. It may be that the E305 driver is better (albeit less elegant - heavy ceramic ring magnet for the woofer vs. lightweight neo magnet on the 3005), but the new crossover is too minimalist for use in a high-fidelity system. The HTS3005SE had a surprisingly complex crossover for a tiny and relatively inexpensive speaker. The E305, I gather from measurements (I'll let this thread know when I've processed them and put up my writeup on my blog, below) has a much simpler crossover.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 

Last edited by DS-21; 03-29-2015 at 11:04 AM.
DS-21 is offline  
post #7267 of 7270 Old 03-29-2015, 10:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
steveting99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,354
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 624 Post(s)
Liked: 192
^DS-21,

Don't know how to remove the grill on the E301. Haven't tried to be honest.

The wife has killed the idea of placing the E301 on the ceiling due to the "ugliness" factor so the T101 are going up there instead. The specs clearly say 80Hz and a maximum SPL of 107dB - with no distortion numbers or what the -3dB point is. That was the misleading part. The mistake made by me was ASSuming (which is a bad thing) that the -3dB point was at 80Hz and this is clearly not the case. Not sure how KEF tested the T101, under what conditions and the type of room, etc. The T series are very different to the E-series and believe KEF has a white paper on their T-series design. The T-series do not incorporate the Uni-Q drivers.

For the E301, the 90Hz crossover is a bit on the generous side to say the least - even though it's specified as the -3dB point. I did a frequency sweep at the Main Listening Position (MLP) and the THD went up noticeably below 160Hz - will have to dig up the graph somewhere if anyone is interested. I've now crossed all the E301 at 120Hz and contemplating a more accurate mid-bass module and integrating with the E series with an active external electronic crossover + external amps. Thinking this will help with the T101 also somehow.

Been looking for, but I haven't seen any polar plots for the T101 or E301. If you know where they are - would appreciate a link.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
steveting99 is online now  
post #7268 of 7270 Old Yesterday, 11:18 AM
Member
 
Metlore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hey everyone. I currently have my Denon's crossover set to 80Hz for all my speakers. I noticed on Kef's site that the Q800's only show 100Hz and up. Should I change it for them or just leave everything set flat at 80? I don't want to damage the speakers by pushing something to them that they can't handle.
Metlore is offline  
post #7269 of 7270 Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 5
[quote=pickering.tim;33013361]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrahertz View Post
I have nearly completed my rec room home theater system.

Speakers: Kef R900, R600c, R800ds
Sub: SVS SB 13 ultra
TV: Samsung 78HU9000
Receiver: Onkyo 838
Blu Ray: Oppo 103
Turntable: Onkyo CP1050
very nice looking setup - I think you may have posted some specs for the size of the room but I may have missed them/can't find them. I am wondering how far back the opening on the front left side goes and how large it is. are the speakers firing down the length of the room i assume?

I ask cause cause I dealt with a lot of speaker placement frustrations due to an L shaped room.
The front of the room is about 17' wide, the back of the room about 14' wide. The room is about 25' long. Ceilings are 9' down most of the length of the room, but shorter in the opening. I would say that the opening goes about 10' on the left side.

The speakers are firing down the long side of the room.

What should I look out for in sound regarding placement in the L shape?
ultrahertz is offline  
post #7270 of 7270 Unread Today, 11:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: gaithersburg, md
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 14
[quote=ultrahertz;33071137]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickering.tim View Post

The front of the room is about 17' wide, the back of the room about 14' wide. The room is about 25' long. Ceilings are 9' down most of the length of the room, but shorter in the opening. I would say that the opening goes about 10' on the left side.

The speakers are firing down the long side of the room.

What should I look out for in sound regarding placement in the L shape?
There are others much more knowledgable than myself who will probably offer some advice but here is my two cents for what it is worth. .....

I have tried my speakers on each of the 4 possible walls and within varying placements on each with a few things standing out as having "worked" for me in terms of getting a better sound.

1. this doesn't apply to your room (that i can tell) but the backdrop of each speaker is way more important than I thought in terms of sound quality. I have had everything wall with brick fireplace and glass windows/door with windows, utility closet door and vents and finally my favorite - plain wall with a column placed right on the spot where I find my speakers sound the best.

right now the best sound i have is wih the brick fireplace behind my tv and the speakers are centered about 1/3th room width between them based on having equal distances to side walls. they are not centered with the brick fireplace. It took me awhile to accept that the brick fireplace was not making nearly as big of a difference as having equal distances to side walls. With my cm10s they really sound better when I have them about 3-4 feet from the wall behind them. any more than that and I lose low end and lose it fast. anything less than 3 feet (depending also on distance from brick fireplace and side walls) the reflections are just about impossible for me to get over as I cannot add any treatment to this room, at least not professional caliber.

firing down the longer room length should be the best but with an L shaped room you should try each wall just to see if you notice any differences. if you can.

also, i had to settle on sacrificing the wall behind my listening area to the about half room width opening of the L shape as it makes the smallest impact in this set up. however, when the cm10s are paced furhter apart from each other i lose that center image in stereo sound quickly but it is hard to tell if that is just how they react i my room or the speakers in general.

my best advice would be the same thing i have been told about 100 times much to my resistance to put in the work to play your typical listening music or movie and shuffle things around as much as possible using loosely only the guidelines (IMO) that are NOT based on the assumption of a rectangular room. except trying to make backdrop of speakers and position relative to walls/etc. as similar and symmetrical as possible.

also, i am guilty of overanalyzing to the point of switching things around when i was perfectly content the way things were -- i found no especially significant greener grass

given most of my experiementing was done with bowers and wilkins/svs speakers and my time with the r700s and ls50s is minimal take that into consideration when reading my comments as even though the specs are very much alike these two speakers are drastically different in my opinion

My Current 5.2 Setup - for now....
B&W CM10s (FLR), CMC2, CM5 x2 (SLR)
Dual SVS SB2000s

Rack and Display:
Marantz SR7009, Marantz UD7007, T-PC50st60
[/COLOR]
pickering.tim is online now  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Kef , Kef Audio , Kef Bookshelf Speaker , Kef Center Channel Speaker , Kef C4 Subwoofer Black , Kef Q100bl Bookshelf Speaker , Kef Ls50 2 Way Speaker System , Kef Q700wa Floorstanding Speaker , Kef T Series Floor Stand Pair
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off