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post #8791 of 8806 Old 07-21-2016, 01:38 AM
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Hey dear KEF owners!

I'm planning to upgrade from Q300s, Below are my options:

1. R300 + good sub (later)
2. LS 50 + good sub (later)
3. R700 + (need sub?)

Mainly for music, I may use these with movies as well once i upgrade my av receiver to a newer model with front pre-outs. (currently I've a separate setup for movies - an entry level onkyo receiver and pioneer andrew jones speakers)

Due to budget constrains, i'm planning to continue with my Marantz PM7004 for the time being..

What I heard is that even if i get R700, I may need a sub later.. My listening space is 14x16 ft living room. I'm pretty happy with my Q300s..

Your valuable suggestions please..
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post #8792 of 8806 Old 07-21-2016, 03:56 AM
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I can offer my experience if it has any value to you, but you could help by answering some questions.

How far from the speakers do you sit?
Are there any furnishings or room treatments?
What type of music do you listen to?

I use my system in my living room primarily for 2.1 music, though it does double duty as home theater. The room is 13' x 19.5' x 7.5', and carpeted. The rear half of the left side is open to a dining room. My range of music is eclectic, everything from classical to jazz, rock, folk and some hip-hop and electronica. I will try virtually anything that pops up on Tidal Hi-Fi. I sit about 10-12 feet from the main speakers.

When I started looking I was set on the R300 and to this day I believe they would have been just fine. With the room conditions they would fill the space with music (and the occasional movie) with no problem. I know this because the previous speaker was a stand mount speaker of nearly the same size. The LS50 wasn't for me for a couple of reasons. I sit too far away, they are better as a near-field monitor. They don't have grills (that we know of, KEF) and there would be no way for me to use a third as a center speaker due to space constraints. Using an R200c or R600c with them is possible, but aesthetics do matter here and that's not a consistent style between LS50 and R series. I like having wood finish, and love being able to "change the speaker's personality" by virtue of the magnetically attached grills.

The R700 weren't on my radar because they were just too much money in my mind at the time. I was just getting back into this at the time and sticker shock was in effect. I set a speaker budget for the L-R mains at a $2000 limit and thought I was spending crazy money (I don't feel this way anymore, I'd spend up to $15k now if I could.) So this is why I zeroed in on the R300. As it turned out, the dealer had sold their last pair a couple weeks before I showed up. They offered to demo the R500 instead. I told them I could NOT spend that much but they said "just give them a good listen and know that the R300 would be similar. Then they offered me those same demo speakers for the price of the R300 if they ordered them, or half the cost of the R700 that was next to them. Done.

These speakers just fill my room perfect. They do not go low enough for a good portion of modern music but are glorious for a vast array of older rock, jazz, certainly classical. The thing is that because the R700 would be just a little bit deeper that means it could do a little bit more music without a sub, but I feel it still needs one. So why jump from a $2600 pair of speakers to $3500 if I can put an $800 sub in and get what I want. I wouldn't and didn't but that's just me. You seem to have a similarly sized room. At some point a floorstanding speaker can be just a little overwhelming in a room. Mine go much louder than I ever listen to even when no one else is home and I'm cranking it. I can't imagine having much larger speakers, it would be a waste for me. Consider the R300 if aesthetics matter at all because you can add the R200c or R600c later and match them. If you can get a deal on some R500 & a decent sub, you might find nirvana.
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System includes KEF R500 floor standing, R200C center, R100 surrounds, SVS SB2000 subwoofer, NAD T758 receiver, Pro-Ject RPM1 turntable w/ Sumiko Pearl cartridge, Bluesound Vault, Sony BDP-S480 BlueRay player, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer, MCS System cassette deck. The last 2 items are dust collectors but will work if asked.
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post #8793 of 8806 Old 07-21-2016, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
there would be no way for me to use a third as a center speaker due to space constraints. Using an R200c or R600c with them is possible
I don't understand why using an LS50 as a center speaker is any less possible than an R200C or R600C. What's your reasoning, Ken?

In my case, the R600C blends seamlessly with my KEF Reference 107/2s, whereas I was always aware of the LS50 as a separate speaker, but that's speaker specific. I'm sure that wouldn't be true if my setup were LS50s LCR. I use a pair of LS50s flanking a Sony 65XBR in the living room mostly for watching TV, but I've been amazed at their ability with Blu-rays like Aida and Legends of Jazz. My complaint with monitors in the past has been their inability to do large orchestrations convincingly, but that complaint does not extend to the LS50s. I do supplement the LS50s with a pair of Velodyne HGS-10s and SMS-1 bass manager.
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post #8794 of 8806 Old 07-21-2016, 11:07 AM
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The LS50 just isn't the right shape (too square) for the space beneath my TV for it to be used as a center. I like the way the R200C that I have sounds just fine, thankfully. And that it matches so perfectly with my R500's is just icing on the cake, as they say.

System includes KEF R500 floor standing, R200C center, R100 surrounds, SVS SB2000 subwoofer, NAD T758 receiver, Pro-Ject RPM1 turntable w/ Sumiko Pearl cartridge, Bluesound Vault, Sony BDP-S480 BlueRay player, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer, MCS System cassette deck. The last 2 items are dust collectors but will work if asked.
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post #8795 of 8806 Old 07-21-2016, 05:18 PM
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I used to use my ls50 in 2ch setup in my 16x20 livingroom and they were pretty good. If you are adding a good subwoofer there is no reason to go with r300 IMO.

Right now I use my r500 in the 2ch setup and I find the bass sufficient, I'm sure the r700 are even better. I don't doubt that a good subwoofer would improve things even further.

For pure music I would say r700 if you want floorstanders and like that aesthetic.

If movies are even part of the picture, or if you listen to a lot of dubstep, ls50 plus a good subwoofer probably is a much better overall solution.

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post #8796 of 8806 Old 07-21-2016, 07:26 PM
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Has anyone compared the reference 3 or 5 against r500? I'm getting the upgrade itch

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Last edited by 10k; 07-21-2016 at 07:51 PM.
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post #8797 of 8806 Old 07-22-2016, 05:06 AM
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Has anyone compared the reference 3 or 5 against r500? I'm getting the upgrade itch
That's a tough one, and a pure "value judgement."

I've heard the Reference 3 and I own R500. Of course they sound much better. More detail, cleaner everywhere but I think especially the highest frequencies come across smoother with less fall-off at the very top. On the lower end it's a more pronounced improvement. The much larger cabinet and tunable port, combined with the 1-1/4" (32mm) larger drivers results in really not needing a subwoofer for a LOT more music.

Is this enough to justify the nearly 5x price? Not for me, at least not at this time. I can't upgrade for some time now, but when I do I'll be looking closer at those and the Ariel 7T.

System includes KEF R500 floor standing, R200C center, R100 surrounds, SVS SB2000 subwoofer, NAD T758 receiver, Pro-Ject RPM1 turntable w/ Sumiko Pearl cartridge, Bluesound Vault, Sony BDP-S480 BlueRay player, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer, MCS System cassette deck. The last 2 items are dust collectors but will work if asked.
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post #8798 of 8806 Old 07-22-2016, 06:41 AM
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Yea I agree that it's a value judgement and you won't get that from text posts on the Internet. Unfortunately the highest model the kef dealers near me have are reference 1, which I'm sure is a great speaker but I'm not willing to spend that much on speakers and still need a subwoofer.

So I don't really have an option to audition. Maybe it's for the best and I should start tinkering with active dsp instead

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post #8799 of 8806 Old 07-22-2016, 12:24 PM
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I'm not willing to spend that much on speakers and still need a subwoofer. Maybe I should start tinkering with active dsp instead
I'd use a subwoofer rather than dsp. Even full range speakers can benefit from subwoofer supplement that relieves them of super LF duty and provides the option for more ideal placement.
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post #8800 of 8806 Old 07-22-2016, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
Yea I agree that it's a value judgement and you won't get that from text posts on the Internet. Unfortunately the highest model the kef dealers near me have are reference 1, which I'm sure is a great speaker but I'm not willing to spend that much on speakers and still need a subwoofer.

So I don't really have an option to audition. Maybe it's for the best and I should start tinkering with active dsp instead
I hate even commenting on the Reference Line as I don't want it to sound like "your just talking about speakers you own" but I think it's a mistake to not consider the Reference 1 and a sub. I know it's a lot of bucks but boy there are times I just have a "wow" moment. Watched an off the beaten path movie tonight "My name is Doris" starring Sally Field. The soundtrack, musically, just sounded frigging amazing. I was really put aside how incredible they sounded tonight.

The R series are fine speakers and I have got to spend a few hours with them but from a precision, extraction of details and flat out sound like your there they are not on the same level.

I still say for a combo stereo/HT set-up with the two available centers I haven't heard better. I think I at times take it for granted and I shouldn't as it takes just the right movie soundtrack to bring it all home.

The Reference 3 and 5 are awesome but I am not convinced the REF 1 doesn't get you all the way there with a great sub or two for HT.

Maybe it's my whole end to end solution electronics to speakers and they just jive together but there are nights like tonight I'm reminded how incredible these speakers are.

Rick

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post #8801 of 8806 Old 07-23-2016, 12:25 AM
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Hey great feedback and thanks to you both. My space really can't accommodate a subwoofer so I really am limited to just speakers.

Even the ref 5 would be a little imposing in my 16x20 livingroom.

I don't doubt that the ref1 are amazing speakers. My local dealer stocks them so I will go have a listen. I would love to be pleasantly surprised that they are 6x better than the ls50

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post #8802 of 8806 Old 07-23-2016, 03:58 AM
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Do go listen to the Reference 1, and consider that the Reference 3 would be similar but go a bit deeper with it's larger cabinet and twice as many 6-1/2" woofers. Any dealer that had Reference 1 should also be able to get a pair of the 3's in for demo. This is an area where KEF needs to step up and support their dealers and afford them a loan of the higher end speakers when they have a potential customer. The vast majority of their dealers are small shops that can't afford to have the high end speakers of a half-dozen lines all in stock, all the time.

System includes KEF R500 floor standing, R200C center, R100 surrounds, SVS SB2000 subwoofer, NAD T758 receiver, Pro-Ject RPM1 turntable w/ Sumiko Pearl cartridge, Bluesound Vault, Sony BDP-S480 BlueRay player, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer, MCS System cassette deck. The last 2 items are dust collectors but will work if asked.
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post #8803 of 8806 Old Today, 07:15 AM
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Is a magnetic grill available for the LS 50?
Hi,
There is no grill available for the LS50.

Sincerely,
KEF Direct

For more information please visit KEFDirect.com
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post #8804 of 8806 Old Today, 08:52 AM
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Watched one of the best Atmos productions so far in the Norwegian Film "The Wave" last night..............................

Reproduction of the Tsumami coming down the fjord was nothing short of spectacular!

The four KEF Ci200rr-thx speakers used for ceiling heights helped bring the fictitious event to reality! I auditioned, measured 30 to 40 different candidates for my dedicated room and found nothing close to these KEF's in regard to off axis dispersion, SPL, broadband FR, and lack of any notches in frequency response...................an excellent product for Atmos duty.

Don't know why KEF is not marketing this product for Atmos which IMHO is one of the BEST if not the BEST solution for multiple seating arrangements for Atmos..............seems to me marketing is geared towards in-ceiling solution for LCR's. Missing the boat IMHO...................haven't found a better solution for in-ceiling Atmos application.
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post #8805 of 8806 Old Today, 10:17 AM
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Thanks for that posting, doublewing11!

I haven't heard them yet but do want them. I still can't understand why KEF Direct has taken them off their website. They should be advertising the Ci200RR-THX in every way possible!

System includes KEF R500 floor standing, R200C center, R100 surrounds, SVS SB2000 subwoofer, NAD T758 receiver, Pro-Ject RPM1 turntable w/ Sumiko Pearl cartridge, Bluesound Vault, Sony BDP-S480 BlueRay player, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer, MCS System cassette deck. The last 2 items are dust collectors but will work if asked.
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post #8806 of 8806 Old Today, 10:45 AM
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Question for KEF people... is the K140 considered a decent model? Someone local is selling a pair, and just looking for feedback/opinions before considering an offer. I believe that model was from around the mid-90s? They generally hold up pretty well?
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Kef , Kef Audio , Kef Bookshelf Speaker , Kef Center Channel Speaker , Kef C4 Subwoofer Black , Kef Q100bl Bookshelf Speaker , Kef Ls50 2 Way Speaker System , Kef Q700wa Floorstanding Speaker , Kef T Series Floor Stand Pair

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